| Reading 6 point deduction on 17:46 - Mar 1 with 2398 views | Northernr |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 17:40 - Mar 1 by Third_Division_South |
The weird thing about this is that all their signings had to be ratified by the EFL and they’ve still breached FFP |
Literally the day of the hearing, as soon as it was over they announced the Andy Carroll signing  |  | |  |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 18:37 - Mar 1 with 2195 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
It should be pointed out that Reading’s average attendance is 13,353 and ours is 14,469 for those who think a new stadium will solve it all. |  | | |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 19:29 - Mar 1 with 2115 views | CamberleyR |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 18:37 - Mar 1 by BazzaInTheLoft |
It should be pointed out that Reading’s average attendance is 13,353 and ours is 14,469 for those who think a new stadium will solve it all. |
I don't think anybody's saying it will but that stadium can generate income for them outside of matchdays and doesn't cost a small mountain of cash to maintain. |  |
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| Reading 6 point deduction on 19:30 - Mar 1 with 2113 views | Rangersw12 |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 19:29 - Mar 1 by CamberleyR |
I don't think anybody's saying it will but that stadium can generate income for them outside of matchdays and doesn't cost a small mountain of cash to maintain. |
Would love to see a breakdown of those costs as they haven't really done anything to it for years
It's filthy and badly maintained if at all |  | | |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 19:35 - Mar 1 with 2088 views | distortR |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 13:29 - Mar 1 by Northernr |
This is why we don't want a breach. You get a points deduction to start with, and another one suspended. You get a transfer embargo so you can't improve your team but for free transfers. You get a business plan to stick to, which basically consists of selling everything that isn't tied down for whatever you can get for it, and if you don't stick to that you get deducted more points and it becomes lather, rinse, repeat. |
Oh, you see the negative in everything. | | | |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 19:56 - Mar 1 with 2041 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 19:29 - Mar 1 by CamberleyR |
I don't think anybody's saying it will but that stadium can generate income for them outside of matchdays and doesn't cost a small mountain of cash to maintain. |
Well, someone in a very recent thread suggested it is a valid reason that Lee, Les, and Chris Ramsey should go for some reason.
Reading doesn’t have Wembley Stadium, Wembley Arena, Earls Court, Kensington Olympia within 4 miles of it, and two Premiership teams in the same Borough, let alone the other 14 in the same city.
Buyer beware is my point. I don’t think we should really on extra curricular activity in our new stadium. | | | |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 19:58 - Mar 1 with 2021 views | stowmarketrange |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 13:29 - Mar 1 by Northernr |
This is why we don't want a breach. You get a points deduction to start with, and another one suspended. You get a transfer embargo so you can't improve your team but for free transfers. You get a business plan to stick to, which basically consists of selling everything that isn't tied down for whatever you can get for it, and if you don't stick to that you get deducted more points and it becomes lather, rinse, repeat. |
It’s partly caused by having a 1/2 empty ground,but still only giving 2000 tickets to away fans,just so they can have their spotty little teeny bopper fans taking up seats that should be used to bring them more income.And I bet they are all U16 ticket holders,which brings in even less in gate receipts than adult away fans.Fook em I say. |  | | |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 19:59 - Mar 1 with 2019 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 19:56 - Mar 1 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Well, someone in a very recent thread suggested it is a valid reason that Lee, Les, and Chris Ramsey should go for some reason.
Reading doesn’t have Wembley Stadium, Wembley Arena, Earls Court, Kensington Olympia within 4 miles of it, and two Premiership teams in the same Borough, let alone the other 14 in the same city.
Buyer beware is my point. I don’t think we should really on extra curricular activity in our new stadium. |
Don't think we need to worry about Earls Court these days, though :-)
Shame, I saw Oasis there and it was absolutely incredible. |  | | |
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| Reading 6 point deduction on 20:09 - Mar 1 with 1964 views | Harbour |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 17:46 - Mar 1 by Northernr |
Literally the day of the hearing, as soon as it was over they announced the Andy Carroll signing |
That’s got to be worth at least 12 points deduction… | | | |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 20:30 - Mar 1 with 1902 views | ted_hendrix |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 19:30 - Mar 1 by Rangersw12 |
Would love to see a breakdown of those costs as they haven't really done anything to it for years
It's filthy and badly maintained if at all |
Long storey short;
They make or used to make good money on the stadium conference centres when I was working there, going back a while now as I'm long since retired.
Anyway.
I Managed and handed over their new Media Suite and associated buildings on completion of the construction phase (tied into that contract was the hotel extension that we also built).
I was at the end of 12 Months defects inspection and they were complaining bitterly about the noisy air con units in the new building, me and our M&E contractors asked for evidence of their maintenance records and they said they'd send them to us, at that point our M&E contractor said don't bother I'll print them off now from the BMS panel which he duly did while we all watched and lo and behold the air con units hadn't been maintained at all (should be done every three Months from new).
This was all rather embarrassing for those gonks from the stadium but highly amusing for me and our M&E contractor.
The stadium Manager then said as they had been relegated from the Prem 12 Months ago his maintenance budget had been cut hence he had to make cut backs.
They were creepy people to deal with and bastard hard work.
I might have mentioned on the odd occasion how much I despise them.
If Bidwell would have scored that penalty in the dying minutes back then they would have been relegated to L1 that dreadful--dreadful night, the useless bastards.
Instead we lost 1-0 and thet stayed up by the skin of their teeth.
Useless bloody bastard. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Reading 6 point deduction on 21:00 - Mar 1 with 1829 views | stevenomad01 |
My Reading supporting friend, seems to think they have missed the deadline for handing in an update to their business plan which was due today. Currently the EFL have to sign any expenditure off and it looks like Reading may not have factored in the increased energy costs and missed the financial targets set by the EFL last year.
They are as big a mess as we are. |  | | |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 21:25 - Mar 1 with 1782 views | OldPedro |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 21:00 - Mar 1 by stevenomad01 |
My Reading supporting friend, seems to think they have missed the deadline for handing in an update to their business plan which was due today. Currently the EFL have to sign any expenditure off and it looks like Reading may not have factored in the increased energy costs and missed the financial targets set by the EFL last year.
They are as big a mess as we are. |
'increased energy costs' or cost of paying Andy Carroll......... |  |
| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
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| Reading 6 point deduction on 22:09 - Mar 1 with 1693 views | NewBee |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 17:46 - Mar 1 by Northernr |
Literally the day of the hearing, as soon as it was over they announced the Andy Carroll signing |
According to 'The Athletic' at the time:
"Given that Reading’s breach of financial rules has resulted in a transfer embargo that puts strict limits on squad salary expenditure, signing the former England international raised eyebrows in some quarters.
But The Athletic understands Carroll signed a deal worth only £1,000 per week, a fraction of his income while representing Newcastle, Liverpool and West Ham United.
That was the budget granted to Reading by the EFL under the restrictions it has imposed and Carroll accepted the offer to get his career back on track." | | | |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 22:15 - Mar 1 with 1674 views | LongsufferingR |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 22:09 - Mar 1 by NewBee |
According to 'The Athletic' at the time:
"Given that Reading’s breach of financial rules has resulted in a transfer embargo that puts strict limits on squad salary expenditure, signing the former England international raised eyebrows in some quarters.
But The Athletic understands Carroll signed a deal worth only £1,000 per week, a fraction of his income while representing Newcastle, Liverpool and West Ham United.
That was the budget granted to Reading by the EFL under the restrictions it has imposed and Carroll accepted the offer to get his career back on track." |
...and we're supposed to believe that he is only getting £1k a week with no extra or under the counter payments. Sure. |  | | |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 22:39 - Mar 1 with 1608 views | NewBee |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 16:30 - Mar 1 by Konk |
Clubs might not ultimately go out of business after being on the brink of collapse, but then how many did before FFP? Has it made it more likely that clubs will stay afloat? Not sure it has because as you say, few league clubs went bust in the past. Loads of clubs are a shambles and lurching from one crisis to the next, and I don’t see that FFP appears to have stopped that happening.
Has it entrenched the position of the clubs at the top of the PL? Yes. Has it given a huge advantage to clubs with parachute payments? Yes. If Tony Bloom at Brighton decided he wanted to put an extra £200m of his own money into trying to establish Brighton in the top 6 of the PL and he has the money, it seems unfair that he can’t do that when Chelsea, Man City, and others have done that in the past.
I’m not convinced FFP is doing anything other than helping the wealthier clubs be that in the PL, championship, or lower divisions. I don’t want to see Mel Morris scenarios where people jeopardize the future of clubs, but if Shahid Khan, for example, worth £7bn, wants to push us on, it seems wrong that he can’t unless you’re going to have a true salary cap.
I could also imagine that some clubs’ FFP situation might deter investors because at someone like QPR you have to operate with a tight, limited budget, and you couldn’t do something like fling a few bob at the playing side of things with a view to promotion, and then use TV money, increased revenue etc to support a new stadium/redevelopment. At Rangers at the moment, it looks like unless they got lucky, investors would have to spend years and massive money getting the infrastructure to a place where they can boost revenue to enable them to have a serious punt at promotion. |
Re FFP, this is what I actually posted:
"FFP may be seriously flawed and in need of reform, if not replacement..."
What I took exception to was your point about (all these clubs being) "on the brink of collapse". Which may be true enough, but very few actually go completely out of existence, never to reappear.
And I fear people forget how many clubs were rattling buckets and appealing to fans to save their club in former times i.e. long before FFP. You may remember 1987, when Jimmy Hill & Co had to step in and save ypour club from 'Fulham Park Rangers'. And 20 years before that, Brentford also nearly disappeared, once more at the hands of our beloved neighbours from W12. While it was only the last-minute intervention of Roman Abramovich in 2003 which saved a heavily indebted Chelsea from likely going to the wall.
And that's only West London clubs! At the beginning of the century, EFL clubs all started spending heavily on the back of the £315m(?) broadcasting deal they'd struck with ITV Digital in 1999. Then when ITV Digital went bust in 2002, it dragged them all down. IIRC, nearly 20 EFL clubs went in to administration over the next couple of years, with the rest all sailing very close to the wind.
So whatever else you may think of FFP (not much, in my case), it was actually much more a reaction to football clubs' financial problems, rather than the cause of them. | | | |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 22:46 - Mar 1 with 1593 views | NewBee |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 18:37 - Mar 1 by BazzaInTheLoft |
It should be pointed out that Reading’s average attendance is 13,353 and ours is 14,469 for those who think a new stadium will solve it all. |
There's no guarantee that a new stadium will solve QPR's problems - at a very minimum it has to be at a cost which is affordable; of a suitable size and design; and in a suitable location and afaik it is these last two which are hindering Reading at the Majewski.
But one thing you can pretty much guarantee is that the longer QPR stay at LR, the worse your problems will become.
P.S. I'm genuinely not gloating when I say this. | | | |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 22:56 - Mar 1 with 1552 views | NewBee |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 22:15 - Mar 1 by LongsufferingR |
...and we're supposed to believe that he is only getting £1k a week with no extra or under the counter payments. Sure. |
I actually do. For the fact that no-one better than Reading were prepared to come in for a Free Agent shows just how desperate he is.
And if he was/is desperate, then why would Reading need to pay him under the counter?
Besides all of which, overspending an agreed budget after Covid and the energy crisis etc is one thing. But willingly doing so by illegal means is quite something else, meaning that the EFL would have to hammer them if caught - if the Fraud Squad or HMRC didn't get there first! | | | |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 23:12 - Mar 1 with 1522 views | LongsufferingR |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 22:56 - Mar 1 by NewBee |
I actually do. For the fact that no-one better than Reading were prepared to come in for a Free Agent shows just how desperate he is.
And if he was/is desperate, then why would Reading need to pay him under the counter?
Besides all of which, overspending an agreed budget after Covid and the energy crisis etc is one thing. But willingly doing so by illegal means is quite something else, meaning that the EFL would have to hammer them if caught - if the Fraud Squad or HMRC didn't get there first! |
Absolutely none of which would be a surprise or unprecedented. | | | |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 23:24 - Mar 1 with 1488 views | qpr1976 |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 19:29 - Mar 1 by CamberleyR |
I don't think anybody's saying it will but that stadium can generate income for them outside of matchdays and doesn't cost a small mountain of cash to maintain. |
But it does cost a small mountain of cash to -
Identify a location
Get planning permission (and local support - Warren Farm)
Build
Long before maintenance. Or additional weekly income. | | | |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 07:54 - Mar 2 with 1348 views | Konk |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 22:39 - Mar 1 by NewBee |
Re FFP, this is what I actually posted:
"FFP may be seriously flawed and in need of reform, if not replacement..."
What I took exception to was your point about (all these clubs being) "on the brink of collapse". Which may be true enough, but very few actually go completely out of existence, never to reappear.
And I fear people forget how many clubs were rattling buckets and appealing to fans to save their club in former times i.e. long before FFP. You may remember 1987, when Jimmy Hill & Co had to step in and save ypour club from 'Fulham Park Rangers'. And 20 years before that, Brentford also nearly disappeared, once more at the hands of our beloved neighbours from W12. While it was only the last-minute intervention of Roman Abramovich in 2003 which saved a heavily indebted Chelsea from likely going to the wall.
And that's only West London clubs! At the beginning of the century, EFL clubs all started spending heavily on the back of the £315m(?) broadcasting deal they'd struck with ITV Digital in 1999. Then when ITV Digital went bust in 2002, it dragged them all down. IIRC, nearly 20 EFL clubs went in to administration over the next couple of years, with the rest all sailing very close to the wind.
So whatever else you may think of FFP (not much, in my case), it was actually much more a reaction to football clubs' financial problems, rather than the cause of them. |
I get your point - and I agree. I’m not blaming FFP for clubs being in a mess and I well remember many clubs, including my own, being on the brink, but our case was attributable to property development/speculation rather than paying Gary Elkins too much. We’ve had a chance to see if it helps, and I don’t see that it has. I think it just entrenches positions, reduces competition, and encourages the sort of nonsense we saw at Derby and Wednesday that saw clubs no longer owning their only real asset, as owners tried to be clever by buying the stadium from the club.
Just not at all convinced that FFP has produced any benefits on balance. |  |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Reading 6 point deduction on 10:07 - Mar 2 with 1192 views | terryb |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 16:55 - Mar 1 by davman |
... but the ridiculous irony out of all this is that Reading will suffer no material penalty long term. 6 points last season ultimately meant f-all, 6 points this year means f-all and the Embargo in between hardly stopped them being competitive, did it? They can afford Hendrick, Carroll and Ince amongst others...
So, Where's the "punishment"?
When we get in to trouble, it'll be another record fine in points rather than financial. |
A six point deduction would place Reading lower in the table than Rangers.
If we are in a relegation fight (which we are), then Reading would be as well. The deduction might not see them relegated, but it would mean more than f-all. | | | |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 10:15 - Mar 2 with 1177 views | joe90 |
| Reading 6 point deduction on 19:29 - Mar 1 by CamberleyR |
I don't think anybody's saying it will but that stadium can generate income for them outside of matchdays and doesn't cost a small mountain of cash to maintain. |
Out of interest, do you know how much money Reading's stadium makes outside of match day?
We could definitely increase match day revenue and reduce running costs, but I don't buy the argument that we can generate money from activities outside of match day. Especially if we stay in London. |  | | |
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