| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 08:24 - Mar 15 with 5734 views | TipperaryDale |
1. No lay person has any real idea of how these things make money. A lot of experts don't seem to, or can't find a way to explain it to the majority of people.
2. Many of these schemes are described as pyramid schemes (see collapse of Football Index last week when they couldn't recruit more investors/customers).
3. If the likes of PSG, Barca, Juventus are involved with their shady Middle Eastern money, it's probably a sign that the whole thing is crooked.
This is exactly the kind of thing that's wrong with modern football, the marketisation of every facet of it, meaning poorer clubs find it harder every year; the result? Dearer ticket prices for you, less chance of you owning stakes in a club, less and less chance that smaller clubs can grow without foreign investment.
No thanks from me. |  | |  |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 08:38 - Mar 15 with 5716 views | HK_Dale |
I have to agree in relation to football clubs. I don’t see the benefit of using crypto over some kind of fan wallet, like from Visa. I’m also not clear on what the asset behind these coins are for PSG, Juvenile, etc. I suppose they work because of the brand value attached to those clubs.
Bitcoins value increases because of the scarcity of the asset and the increasing demand. There can only ever be a finite amount of bitcoin (hard coded into the network). I’d also add that the computing power for running Bitcoin nodes and Bitcoin mining is insane.
Personally think rather than crypto, leveraging something like the Tifosy platform for a bond or additional equity issue would make more sense. Both Norwich and Stevanage have used the platform over recent years to find specific projects. Norwich in particular raised funds for a training ground!
https://www.tifosy.com/en/raises/invest-in-the-canaries-bond-and-help-build-our- |  | | |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 09:06 - Mar 15 with 5686 views | Stourdale |
The only thing positive of linking blockchain to a football club that I can see would be for share distribution and voting rights.
The board could issue a crypto in the open market after preallocation to existing shareholders and the club would find it's true value.
The underlying blockchain would allow voting rights to all holders. Any other use case would likely be a scam.
On crypto as a whole, blockchain is here to stay but it amazes me that the likes of Bitcoin and Ethereum are still the main protagonists in the news. Bitcoin is like the betamax of the crypto world.
Designed to take down the banking system with only 7 transactions a second and transaction fees in excess of your normal bank cards.
As a store of value it is very risky, primarily because too many large parties own most of the power.
There are some very exciting projects out there but it takes a lot of research to work out what is and isn't a scam. Easter 2022 will see another massive burst of the bubble as this cycle is still just speculation. Utility is a long way off. |  | | |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 09:15 - Mar 15 with 5676 views | 49thseason |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 08:38 - Mar 15 by HK_Dale |
I have to agree in relation to football clubs. I don’t see the benefit of using crypto over some kind of fan wallet, like from Visa. I’m also not clear on what the asset behind these coins are for PSG, Juvenile, etc. I suppose they work because of the brand value attached to those clubs.
Bitcoins value increases because of the scarcity of the asset and the increasing demand. There can only ever be a finite amount of bitcoin (hard coded into the network). I’d also add that the computing power for running Bitcoin nodes and Bitcoin mining is insane.
Personally think rather than crypto, leveraging something like the Tifosy platform for a bond or additional equity issue would make more sense. Both Norwich and Stevanage have used the platform over recent years to find specific projects. Norwich in particular raised funds for a training ground!
https://www.tifosy.com/en/raises/invest-in-the-canaries-bond-and-help-build-our- |
Thats a really interesting link, essentially a bond paying an 8% coupon with bonuses tied to promotion back to the premiership and with another 3% paid in club tokens to stimulate sales of tickets and shirts etc. 8% beats the hell out of cash ISAs and the like too. I would have a nibble at that if RAFC did something similar if it were for a training ground and backed by the land or buildings. |  | | |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 12:12 - Mar 15 with 5551 views | Dalenet |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 09:15 - Mar 15 by 49thseason |
Thats a really interesting link, essentially a bond paying an 8% coupon with bonuses tied to promotion back to the premiership and with another 3% paid in club tokens to stimulate sales of tickets and shirts etc. 8% beats the hell out of cash ISAs and the like too. I would have a nibble at that if RAFC did something similar if it were for a training ground and backed by the land or buildings. |
These are like the Guaranteed Investment Bonds issued by banks and building societies about 15 years ago. You used to have say 90% of your capital protected and then get 80% of the uplift in the FTSE for example. So you received most of the upside whilst protecting your capital. They are not sold today because the regulator didn't like them.
The investment bond being used by Norwich is in effect a loan to the club by a group of private investors. They guarantee interest for the bond period, with a bonus if they get promoted. You should get your capital back after 5 years. The club has to be confident it can repay the capital from future earnings and I suspect Norwich are. I wouldn't be sure RAFC could because they are unlikely to have surplus funds in future years to repay the bond. I had one of these bonds that guaranteed 8% for years elsewhere. It failed and it has taken 2 years for the FSCS to repay the capital (minus costs). No interest was ever paid. I suspect that RAFC would be considered a poor risk (not a criticism) because of the size of our forward income. | | | |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 12:57 - Mar 15 with 5502 views | Brierls |
Isn't football finance cryptic enough?
Most fans have a shit fit over undisclosed fee's, god knows the reaction if we're introducing Bitcoin.. |  | | |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 13:52 - Mar 15 with 5446 views | HK_Dale |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 12:12 - Mar 15 by Dalenet |
These are like the Guaranteed Investment Bonds issued by banks and building societies about 15 years ago. You used to have say 90% of your capital protected and then get 80% of the uplift in the FTSE for example. So you received most of the upside whilst protecting your capital. They are not sold today because the regulator didn't like them.
The investment bond being used by Norwich is in effect a loan to the club by a group of private investors. They guarantee interest for the bond period, with a bonus if they get promoted. You should get your capital back after 5 years. The club has to be confident it can repay the capital from future earnings and I suspect Norwich are. I wouldn't be sure RAFC could because they are unlikely to have surplus funds in future years to repay the bond. I had one of these bonds that guaranteed 8% for years elsewhere. It failed and it has taken 2 years for the FSCS to repay the capital (minus costs). No interest was ever paid. I suspect that RAFC would be considered a poor risk (not a criticism) because of the size of our forward income. |
Appreciate mini-bonds have been problematic. Having said that Stevenage managed it and then went on to use the same platform to manage their equity round c.12%. https://www.stevenagefc.com/news/2019/june/share-in-our-future-public-launch-tif
Given the unallocated shares, these could be an interesting means of raising more than the £2 nominal whilst allowing fans to participate at smaller lot sizes. Which would benefit the club not only in terms of cash injection but also keeping a diverse shareholder base - helpful to prevent one majority shareholder with nefarious aims... | | | |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 19:04 - Mar 15 with 5325 views | ArthurDaley |
At one time i had 27,500 euro bitcoins ready to be deposited in my account. For some reason i haven't heard from them for quite awhile. |  |
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| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 19:36 - Mar 15 with 5289 views | 49thseason |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 19:04 - Mar 15 by ArthurDaley |
At one time i had 27,500 euro bitcoins ready to be deposited in my account. For some reason i haven't heard from them for quite awhile. |
Apparently Lily Allen was once offered 200,000 Bitcoins to play a gig, she declined, they are worth £8,128,068,000 at the current price.. Oh how I laughed! | | | |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 21:18 - Mar 15 with 5226 views | D_Alien |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 19:36 - Mar 15 by 49thseason |
Apparently Lily Allen was once offered 200,000 Bitcoins to play a gig, she declined, they are worth £8,128,068,000 at the current price.. Oh how I laughed! |
Is she a comedian? |  |
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| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 21:41 - Mar 15 with 5203 views | TVOS1907 |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 19:36 - Mar 15 by 49thseason |
Apparently Lily Allen was once offered 200,000 Bitcoins to play a gig, she declined, they are worth £8,128,068,000 at the current price.. Oh how I laughed! |
Bet that doesn't make her Smile! |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 08:00 - Mar 16 with 5072 views | BigDaveMyCock |
TV AM weather girl Wincy Willis was once offered 4 Bitcoins to also do the weather on News At Ten. She turned it down, probably didn’t want to be more “weathier”. [Post edited 16 Mar 2021 8:06]
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| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 15:53 - Mar 16 with 4952 views | finberty |
I think this is on the page after the one about renting out football club car park spaces for decades, from which you can earn gazillions. |  | | |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 17:27 - Mar 17 with 4783 views | YadHoDale |
Personal view:
1. Bitcoin is a fake currency, which has the potential to undermine the economy.
2. Anyone in possession of it is an idiot or a traitor.
3. Hanging should be reintroduced for treason.
(from the perspective of someone looking forward to the future of the British Isles as the Union of Anglo-Celtic Socialist Republics) |  | | |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 20:57 - Mar 17 with 4727 views | 49thseason |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 17:27 - Mar 17 by YadHoDale |
Personal view:
1. Bitcoin is a fake currency, which has the potential to undermine the economy.
2. Anyone in possession of it is an idiot or a traitor.
3. Hanging should be reintroduced for treason.
(from the perspective of someone looking forward to the future of the British Isles as the Union of Anglo-Celtic Socialist Republics) |
"1. Bitcoin is a fake currency, which has the potential to undermine the economy."
So how is it different to gold or silver? I thought Bitcoin was an alternative and finite store of wealth, so how does it undermine the economy? People still spend it , people have to make things for others to buy, no matter if they use Dollars, Pounds or Bitcoin as the means of valuing the transaction. I would have thought that Government quantitative easing, printing money, is what undermines the economy more than saving your wealth anywhere other than a bank. If you object to people saving their wealth as Bitcoin, you might as well object to people saving / collecting cars, artwork or stamps. | | | |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 21:28 - Mar 17 with 4703 views | pioneer |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 20:57 - Mar 17 by 49thseason |
"1. Bitcoin is a fake currency, which has the potential to undermine the economy."
So how is it different to gold or silver? I thought Bitcoin was an alternative and finite store of wealth, so how does it undermine the economy? People still spend it , people have to make things for others to buy, no matter if they use Dollars, Pounds or Bitcoin as the means of valuing the transaction. I would have thought that Government quantitative easing, printing money, is what undermines the economy more than saving your wealth anywhere other than a bank. If you object to people saving their wealth as Bitcoin, you might as well object to people saving / collecting cars, artwork or stamps. |
...or Rochdale programmes! | | | |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 21:36 - Mar 17 with 4694 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 20:57 - Mar 17 by 49thseason |
"1. Bitcoin is a fake currency, which has the potential to undermine the economy."
So how is it different to gold or silver? I thought Bitcoin was an alternative and finite store of wealth, so how does it undermine the economy? People still spend it , people have to make things for others to buy, no matter if they use Dollars, Pounds or Bitcoin as the means of valuing the transaction. I would have thought that Government quantitative easing, printing money, is what undermines the economy more than saving your wealth anywhere other than a bank. If you object to people saving their wealth as Bitcoin, you might as well object to people saving / collecting cars, artwork or stamps. |
Gold or silver is a commodity not a currency.
If you look at UK currency it reads ‘I promise to pay the bearer on demand...’. This represents a number of legal underpinnings that is ultimately backed by the UK state. Sterling may fluctuate etc. but it has the legal basis of exchange. Bitcoin doesn’t. | |
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| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 22:08 - Mar 17 with 4668 views | judd |
"Bitcoins for an ex leper, Sir?" |  |
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| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 06:21 - Mar 18 with 4608 views | James1980 |
Are Bitcoin 21st Century Tulips? | |
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| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 09:13 - Mar 18 with 4575 views | nordenblue |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 06:21 - Mar 18 by James1980 |
Are Bitcoin 21st Century Tulips? |
Is Bitcoin from Amsterdam? | | | |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 09:51 - Mar 18 with 4561 views | James1980 |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 09:13 - Mar 18 by nordenblue |
Is Bitcoin from Amsterdam? |
I'm sure you know I mean the latest speculative investment bubble. | |
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| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 10:00 - Mar 18 with 4551 views | HK_Dale |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 21:36 - Mar 17 by BigDaveMyCock |
Gold or silver is a commodity not a currency.
If you look at UK currency it reads ‘I promise to pay the bearer on demand...’. This represents a number of legal underpinnings that is ultimately backed by the UK state. Sterling may fluctuate etc. but it has the legal basis of exchange. Bitcoin doesn’t. |
I think at this point Bitcoin behaves much more as a commodity than a currency.
Whilst there is no government backed (fiat) basis of exchange for Bitcoin, you could argue it still has the merits of a unit of exchange in that I can buy something for X bitcoin - i.e. it's tradable.
Other aspects of currency are unit of account and store of value. Arguably it is an accurate unit of account in that 1 bitcoin is fungible with another and it is divisible , i.e. you can have fractional ownership of bitcoin without it losing value.
Store of value is where bitcoin struggles to be viewed as a currency at this current time given it's volatility, etc.
All in all, I would not be putting any assets of a football club into bitcoin or any other crypto asset in the near future. | | | |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 00:14 - Mar 19 with 4454 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 10:00 - Mar 18 by HK_Dale |
I think at this point Bitcoin behaves much more as a commodity than a currency.
Whilst there is no government backed (fiat) basis of exchange for Bitcoin, you could argue it still has the merits of a unit of exchange in that I can buy something for X bitcoin - i.e. it's tradable.
Other aspects of currency are unit of account and store of value. Arguably it is an accurate unit of account in that 1 bitcoin is fungible with another and it is divisible , i.e. you can have fractional ownership of bitcoin without it losing value.
Store of value is where bitcoin struggles to be viewed as a currency at this current time given it's volatility, etc.
All in all, I would not be putting any assets of a football club into bitcoin or any other crypto asset in the near future. |
Agreed.
The biggest contradiction of Bitcoin is that it’s value is always measured by how much Sterling it is allegedly worth. 49Th on here has referred to it as a store of wealth but then that wealth is always referenced to a measure of Sterling. 1 Bitcoin is worth x thousand pounds. Fans of Bitcoin, for me, never see the irony in that. It’s always valued at that which it’s supposedly surpassed. [Post edited 19 Mar 2021 0:15]
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| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 14:36 - Mar 19 with 4352 views | mingthemerciless |
Sorry matey, I’ve got some magic beans you can have though. | | | |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 00:26 - Mar 20 with 4294 views | YadHoDale |
| Crypto currencies for Football Clubs on 14:36 - Mar 19 by mingthemerciless |
Sorry matey, I’ve got some magic beans you can have though. |
The traditional usage of magic beans is to buy a Portuguese football club, normally Familicao... :) | | | |
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