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On this day 84 years ago. 5 years ago we bought a property on the border of Cadiz City, the reason ? My grandfather fought at the last battle of Cordoba for the Govt, he was an active communist. He was held prisoner in the area until he managed to escape back to Ireland. A remarkable story from that battle when the partisans were totally outnumbered, out of ammunition and certainly defeated. My grandfather and his comrades with no weaponry resorted to throwing stones at German sponsored aircraft. I recall he told me ' Didn't hit one son, not bloody one' We came to see the place he escaped from, loved the unspoilt coast line and real Spanish way of life. Like my Granddad we sort of became history too, family history is best, but in a very small way. Rest easy you soldiers of principle.
This post has been edited by an administrator
A great believer in taking anything you like to wherever you want to.
Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 13:45 - Oct 4 by trampie
Nice story Keith, lots from the South Wales valleys went to Spain to fight for the Communists against the Fascism.
The Welsh identified with the Communists, Basques and Catalans, I think they set up a school for Basque children in Swansea, Wales even played an international against the Basque country in Tosh's time, it was Giggs only good game for Wales that I can remember and he scored the only goal, you would not have the imperialist powers like England, German, France etc playing the Basques.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 13:45 - Oct 4 by trampie
Nice story Keith, lots from the South Wales valleys went to Spain to fight for the Communists against the Fascism.
Cheers, its worth sharing, he got in to Spain via France, walked most of the way with about 20 others, none of them bar 2 had any soldiering experience. Back then they were surprisingly pro British in the south of Ireland, after getting back to Ireland he went over to England for work and they tried to press him in to British army service. He refused saying he had been fighting Nazis for two years whilst they were pandering to Hitler. He got 13 months inside for that. However, he was released eventually and was asked to train the home guard, again surprisingly he agreed on the principle their service in Spain was recognised. They wrote him a letter. Tough times.
A great believer in taking anything you like to wherever you want to.
Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 13:53 - Oct 4 by KeithHaynes
Cheers, its worth sharing, he got in to Spain via France, walked most of the way with about 20 others, none of them bar 2 had any soldiering experience. Back then they were surprisingly pro British in the south of Ireland, after getting back to Ireland he went over to England for work and they tried to press him in to British army service. He refused saying he had been fighting Nazis for two years whilst they were pandering to Hitler. He got 13 months inside for that. However, he was released eventually and was asked to train the home guard, again surprisingly he agreed on the principle their service in Spain was recognised. They wrote him a letter. Tough times.
Lovely story, I am aware similar stories from my neck of the woods. Going on to Churchill I had an uncle that would not have his name mentioned in the house because of what he did as regards working men and miners and yet in England he was a hero not so much where I came from. Aberdare, Merthyr, Rhondda was a bit of a Communist triangle back in the day, Annie Powell was a Communist councillor for years over the Rhondda and there was a Communist got in in Penderyn I think it was, may have been Hirwaun.
[Post edited 4 Oct 2020 14:06]
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 14:05 - Oct 4 by trampie
Lovely story, I am aware similar stories from my neck of the woods. Going on to Churchill I had an uncle that would not have his name mentioned in the house because of what he did as regards working men and miners and yet in England he was a hero not so much where I came from. Aberdare, Merthyr, Rhondda was a bit of a Communist triangle back in the day, Annie Powell was a Communist councillor for years over the Rhondda and there was a Communist got in in Penderyn I think it was, may have been Hirwaun.
[Post edited 4 Oct 2020 14:06]
An Uncle who wouldn't mention Churchill, you should have said ................
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Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 14:30 - Oct 4 with 1562 views
The biggest failure of the British education system is the refusal to teach generations of people exactly what Communism was and what it was responsible for.
Unlike Trampie I don't believe in "goodies and baddies", I don't judge people of the 1930s for supporting a movement which promised them the earth and claimed to be just.
I do judge people of the 21st century who haven't bothered to learn the lessons of the 20th century though. Communism was a very, very, bad idea.
Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 15:04 - Oct 4 by Kerouac
The biggest failure of the British education system is the refusal to teach generations of people exactly what Communism was and what it was responsible for.
Unlike Trampie I don't believe in "goodies and baddies", I don't judge people of the 1930s for supporting a movement which promised them the earth and claimed to be just.
I do judge people of the 21st century who haven't bothered to learn the lessons of the 20th century though. Communism was a very, very, bad idea.
K
As an idea Communism isn't a bad idea. In practice it is diabolical as it is subjugated to a bastardised form used by those at the top of the political structure to cement their power. Unless humanity self actualises I can NEVER envisage communism working.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan
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Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 15:26 - Oct 4 with 1504 views
Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 14:05 - Oct 4 by trampie
Lovely story, I am aware similar stories from my neck of the woods. Going on to Churchill I had an uncle that would not have his name mentioned in the house because of what he did as regards working men and miners and yet in England he was a hero not so much where I came from. Aberdare, Merthyr, Rhondda was a bit of a Communist triangle back in the day, Annie Powell was a Communist councillor for years over the Rhondda and there was a Communist got in in Penderyn I think it was, may have been Hirwaun.
[Post edited 4 Oct 2020 14:06]
Maerdy or Little Moscow. Annie Powell the UK’s First and perhaps only communist mayor.
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Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 15:26 - Oct 4 with 1504 views
Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 15:10 - Oct 4 by Fireboy2
Thanks for bringing down a great post.
Just genuinely querying apparent double standards and am interested in any response as I'm confused over the difference between murderous Nazi and extreme Rightwing regimes and that of murderous Communist and extreme left wing regimes.
I'm open to differing views which I may not have considered which I will either agree with or reject.
One such point that I perhaps hadn't considered raised by a contributor above was that perhaps in the 30s the full horror and genocide of various communist regimes was not generally apparent to those advocating communist policies in the UK and elsewhere ( my interpretation) whichI can appreciate to a certain degree.
To be honest if I was working down the mines for tuppence a shift I'd probably be ready to follow any doctrine that promised an end to such hardship but then be disappointed that such principles then went on to subsequently prove to be just a vehicle to take power and inflict such murderous ideology worldwide.
[Post edited 4 Oct 2020 15:46]
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Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 15:35 - Oct 4 with 1498 views
Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 15:26 - Oct 4 by BarrySwan
Just genuinely querying apparent double standards and am interested in any response as I'm confused over the difference between murderous Nazi and extreme Rightwing regimes and that of murderous Communist and extreme left wing regimes.
I'm open to differing views which I may not have considered which I will either agree with or reject.
One such point that I perhaps hadn't considered raised by a contributor above was that perhaps in the 30s the full horror and genocide of various communist regimes was not generally apparent to those advocating communist policies in the UK and elsewhere ( my interpretation) whichI can appreciate to a certain degree.
To be honest if I was working down the mines for tuppence a shift I'd probably be ready to follow any doctrine that promised an end to such hardship but then be disappointed that such principles then went on to subsequently prove to be just a vehicle to take power and inflict such murderous ideology worldwide.
[Post edited 4 Oct 2020 15:46]
So you are on the wrong thread as this is about left/far left taking on a fascist regime.
You could start a thread on Pol Pot or Stalin if you wish.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan
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Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 15:40 - Oct 4 with 1486 views
Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 15:35 - Oct 4 by DJack
So you are on the wrong thread as this is about left/far left taking on a fascist regime.
You could start a thread on Pol Pot or Stalin if you wish.
No it isn't, its about someone posting up a statement highlighting the actions of an 'active communist' travelling to fight against 'active fascists' in a foreign countries civil war.
And I'm struggling to see the a huge difference between the two despicable ideologies.
Now if we were talking about someone who wasn't an 'active communist' travelling out to help fight against a fascist takeover in order to help the local, under threat populace then I could possibly understand and no doubt join in the praise.
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Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 15:45 - Oct 4 with 1475 views
Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 15:26 - Oct 4 by BarrySwan
Just genuinely querying apparent double standards and am interested in any response as I'm confused over the difference between murderous Nazi and extreme Rightwing regimes and that of murderous Communist and extreme left wing regimes.
I'm open to differing views which I may not have considered which I will either agree with or reject.
One such point that I perhaps hadn't considered raised by a contributor above was that perhaps in the 30s the full horror and genocide of various communist regimes was not generally apparent to those advocating communist policies in the UK and elsewhere ( my interpretation) whichI can appreciate to a certain degree.
To be honest if I was working down the mines for tuppence a shift I'd probably be ready to follow any doctrine that promised an end to such hardship but then be disappointed that such principles then went on to subsequently prove to be just a vehicle to take power and inflict such murderous ideology worldwide.
[Post edited 4 Oct 2020 15:46]
I interpret Keith’s post simply to celebrate and remember how South Wales played a major role in the International Brigade and some of the inter-war struggles that ordinary people in Swansea and the valleys went through. An important part of our history. Not like we had many joining the SS (and yes there was a small British battalion).
No one is suggesting communism as implemented was nothing but oppressive and killed millions. A visit to the Red Terror museum in Addis Abeba is as harrowing a way to show the evils (in my lifetime) of a Marxist regime in the same way a visit to Auschwitz would for nazism and fascism
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Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 16:18 - Oct 4 with 1448 views
Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 15:45 - Oct 4 by Professor
I interpret Keith’s post simply to celebrate and remember how South Wales played a major role in the International Brigade and some of the inter-war struggles that ordinary people in Swansea and the valleys went through. An important part of our history. Not like we had many joining the SS (and yes there was a small British battalion).
No one is suggesting communism as implemented was nothing but oppressive and killed millions. A visit to the Red Terror museum in Addis Abeba is as harrowing a way to show the evils (in my lifetime) of a Marxist regime in the same way a visit to Auschwitz would for nazism and fascism
It’s a piece of family history as he said, fighting oppression and fascism in those times was important, both Keith and I sympathise greatly with those times, and me one jack boot short of being a fascist. 😂
Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 16:20 - Oct 4 by NotLoyal
It’s a piece of family history as he said, fighting oppression and fascism in those times was important, both Keith and I sympathise greatly with those times, and me one jack boot short of being a fascist. 😂
Well if you believe Boogaloo are "patriots" then I can see how others could come to the conclusion...
Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 14:39 - Oct 4 by BarrySwan
I see, whilst I personally join in the contempt and revulsion of Franco and his murderous and oppressive followers
You feel that lauding 'active communists' interfering in another countries civil war is a good thing?
Are you able to let us know how many scores of millions of people worldwide have died and been oppressed in countries governed under communist rule?
Nothing to be proud of there is there?
Mosely of course was equally as despicable.
[Post edited 4 Oct 2020 18:17]
Having lived in Spain for five years now and seen the atrocities that Franco continued to impose on families of Partisan fighters. And had conversations with direct descendants of men, women and children who were taking from their homes right up until 1967 and executed on the roadside by the Guardia Civil for being family related I’m pretty proud of what he did. Fascism is a disgusting politic, and my only agreement is that modern day communism is no better. Anyone who thinks interfering in another countries war is the wrong thing to do then maybe Mussolini and Hitler would have been advised to do the same in Spain. I’m pretty happy he threw rocks at German aircraft. I’m not lauding anything, just sharing some family history. However, today’s politics are nowhere near that of those times, they are not even related, much the same as any topic you choose to mention from the thirties and apply it to today’s modern world. Anyone who thinks the so called communists of the thirties were wrong, be that at cable street or in the spanish civil war should reference seven million dead Jews a few years later. However, thanks for your opinion.
This post has been edited by an administrator
A great believer in taking anything you like to wherever you want to.
Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 15:43 - Oct 4 by BarrySwan
No it isn't, its about someone posting up a statement highlighting the actions of an 'active communist' travelling to fight against 'active fascists' in a foreign countries civil war.
And I'm struggling to see the a huge difference between the two despicable ideologies.
Now if we were talking about someone who wasn't an 'active communist' travelling out to help fight against a fascist takeover in order to help the local, under threat populace then I could possibly understand and no doubt join in the praise.
"I'm confused over the difference between murderous Nazi and extreme Rightwing regimes and that of murderous Communist and extreme left wing regimes. "
I was being picky, just as you would have done if I posted similar.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan
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Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 17:14 - Oct 4 with 1384 views
Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 16:36 - Oct 4 by DJack
"I'm confused over the difference between murderous Nazi and extreme Rightwing regimes and that of murderous Communist and extreme left wing regimes. "
I was being picky, just as you would have done if I posted similar.
Just substitute Fascist and Communist if you wish.
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Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 17:19 - Oct 4 with 1369 views
Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 17:19 - Oct 4 by Boundy
and that's as far as the similarities go I'm afraid .
I would say Annie and Leanne's politics would be fairly close actually. Leanne being more old Labour than old Labour (eg when Labour was a Socialist party) accordingly to Andrew Neil.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Battle of Cable Street on this day 1936 on 17:23 - Oct 4 by trampie
I would say Annie and Leanne's politics would be fairly close actually. Leanne being more old Labour than old Labour (eg when Labour was a Socialist party) accordingly to Andrew Neil.
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