| Importance of academy highlighted. 18:17 - Aug 16 with 9960 views | aberhugh |
There's nothing quite like the refrain 'He's one of our own.' Fans love to see a player their club has nurtured break into the first team and succeed. In the past few weeks we have seen how the club can generate considerable funds and how an input of young players can bolster the first team. I really enjoyed watching the contribution youngsters made in the cup match this week.
It is a considerable investment for a club like Swansea outside the top tier to maintain it's Category 1 status. The highest rated academies are able to sign the best players and command the largest fees. Category 1 academies have high contact time with young players, require a minimum of 18 full-time staff and an operational budget of £2.5m. Academies are reviewed every two years and re-categorised if necessary. Categorisation is the result of an independent audit.
If we maintain our present status in this league it will take considerable nerve and commitment to finance the academy. This will be especially so when in the lean years we may produce very little of any quality. A concern must also be the possible poaching of academy staff by others and of course the disappointment Cameron Toshack must feel. To avert any exits may again take more money in extra wages.
I did both my referee and coaching badges many years ago and developing young players is full of many unfulfilled dreams and potential never being achieved. This makes our academy really something very special and a jewel to be treasured. |  | | |  |
| Importance of academy highlighted. on 08:29 - Aug 20 with 1359 views | Blue_Blood |
| Importance of academy highlighted. on 00:27 - Aug 20 by jackrmee |
We may not be able to compete with the prem clubs, but we are the best of the rest.
Every time a player signs for us, they seem amazed at our facilities and each one of them say it was a big factor in signing. That must go for the kids too (or their parents, as has already been mentioned). |
It's not just about signing players from other clubs, it's about having the best chance to develop your own.
I've been around academy football watching it at all ages and level for 7 or 8 years and the talent and development is astounding and seems to get better year on year.
Every football fan would love to see their team with 5 or 6 local lads in who have come right through their system and my argument is the best chance you have of doing that is by having category 1 training where coaches get more time with the kids and a games programme where you get to play Arsenal, Chelsea etc rather than Exeter and Newport.
I'm not saying you can't produce any other way but this is definitely your best chance of doing it.
The academy is clearly funding itself at present so why change it?
If you went 3 or 4 years without producing anything like we have then of course questions should be asked but why you'd want to take away something that is bearing so much fruit is beyond me.
Last night you played Villa and had two 16 year olds playing. Cardiff who had a team of 17 and 18 year old played against Crewe Alexandra who probably had a team of 15 year olds (cos any decent players at 18 would inevitably play for their u23s or first team) so how on earth is that benefiting anyone?? | | | |
| Importance of academy highlighted. on 11:06 - Aug 20 with 1300 views | jasper_T |
| Importance of academy highlighted. on 08:29 - Aug 20 by Blue_Blood |
It's not just about signing players from other clubs, it's about having the best chance to develop your own.
I've been around academy football watching it at all ages and level for 7 or 8 years and the talent and development is astounding and seems to get better year on year.
Every football fan would love to see their team with 5 or 6 local lads in who have come right through their system and my argument is the best chance you have of doing that is by having category 1 training where coaches get more time with the kids and a games programme where you get to play Arsenal, Chelsea etc rather than Exeter and Newport.
I'm not saying you can't produce any other way but this is definitely your best chance of doing it.
The academy is clearly funding itself at present so why change it?
If you went 3 or 4 years without producing anything like we have then of course questions should be asked but why you'd want to take away something that is bearing so much fruit is beyond me.
Last night you played Villa and had two 16 year olds playing. Cardiff who had a team of 17 and 18 year old played against Crewe Alexandra who probably had a team of 15 year olds (cos any decent players at 18 would inevitably play for their u23s or first team) so how on earth is that benefiting anyone?? |
We went 3/4 years without producing anything. The significant difference between then and last season was the division we were in not the standard of coaching. Opportunities produce players.
Leeds and Bristol are bringing through big money players with cat two status. Bielsa likes a small squad and trusts that talented youth like Jack Clarke, Peacock-Farrell and Jamie Shackleton can contribute. | | | |
| Importance of academy highlighted. on 11:28 - Aug 20 with 1280 views | Blue_Blood |
| Importance of academy highlighted. on 11:06 - Aug 20 by jasper_T |
We went 3/4 years without producing anything. The significant difference between then and last season was the division we were in not the standard of coaching. Opportunities produce players.
Leeds and Bristol are bringing through big money players with cat two status. Bielsa likes a small squad and trusts that talented youth like Jack Clarke, Peacock-Farrell and Jamie Shackleton can contribute. |
That's when there should have been calls regarding downgrading your academy. (Especially as you had management who showed little interest in the academy)
Now you're seeing the fruit and it's funding itself then it would be ridiculous downgrading.
In response to your second paragraph, as I've said before, it's not impossible to produce from Category 2 or even 3 but your best opportunity is by maintaining category 1. Surely that is obvious? | | | |
| Importance of academy highlighted. on 11:44 - Aug 20 with 1261 views | jasper_T |
| Importance of academy highlighted. on 11:28 - Aug 20 by Blue_Blood |
That's when there should have been calls regarding downgrading your academy. (Especially as you had management who showed little interest in the academy)
Now you're seeing the fruit and it's funding itself then it would be ridiculous downgrading.
In response to your second paragraph, as I've said before, it's not impossible to produce from Category 2 or even 3 but your best opportunity is by maintaining category 1. Surely that is obvious? |
Obvious to you and yet people like Stuart Webber don't agree it's that straightforward. You don't just pump the most money and highest industry standards into an academy in order to get the most value or players. Category is only one aspect of a club's youth development strategy, and should be matched to the level of other aspects like recruitment to bear the most fruit.
Downgrading while we were in the Premier League wasn't a big issue because were had money to burn in the annual budget (and boy did we burn it) and young players were stuck in the u23s far longer, making the higher standard of fixtures more valuable. It was the insurance policy against relegation, and a good one it proved.
If we don't go up in the next two seasons the academy will be stocked with 18-19 year old South Wales boys on single year contracts whether we're Cat One or Two or Three. The good ones will go off to clubs that can offer more wages, same as it always was. [Post edited 20 Aug 2019 11:45]
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| Importance of academy highlighted. on 11:50 - Aug 20 with 1253 views | jasper_T |
Cameron Coxe is good enough to be playing senior football. The issue there isn't your academy status.
I thought he was better than Connor when I first saw them play. Could be a full international by now. | | | |
| Importance of academy highlighted. on 11:53 - Aug 20 with 1249 views | Blue_Blood |
| Importance of academy highlighted. on 11:44 - Aug 20 by jasper_T |
Obvious to you and yet people like Stuart Webber don't agree it's that straightforward. You don't just pump the most money and highest industry standards into an academy in order to get the most value or players. Category is only one aspect of a club's youth development strategy, and should be matched to the level of other aspects like recruitment to bear the most fruit.
Downgrading while we were in the Premier League wasn't a big issue because were had money to burn in the annual budget (and boy did we burn it) and young players were stuck in the u23s far longer, making the higher standard of fixtures more valuable. It was the insurance policy against relegation, and a good one it proved.
If we don't go up in the next two seasons the academy will be stocked with 18-19 year old South Wales boys on single year contracts whether we're Cat One or Two or Three. The good ones will go off to clubs that can offer more wages, same as it always was. [Post edited 20 Aug 2019 11:45]
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I'd like the hear the Stuart Webber comments in context. I've heard him saying something similar when he was at Huddersfield but he was talking in the context of his chairman scrapping the academy.
I'm sure if Webber just made the club 35 million off two assets then he wouldn't be considering downgrading. | | | |
| Importance of academy highlighted. on 12:28 - Aug 20 with 1235 views | jasper_T |
| Importance of academy highlighted. on 11:53 - Aug 20 by Blue_Blood |
I'd like the hear the Stuart Webber comments in context. I've heard him saying something similar when he was at Huddersfield but he was talking in the context of his chairman scrapping the academy.
I'm sure if Webber just made the club 35 million off two assets then he wouldn't be considering downgrading. |
Two assets, one of whom we aren't going to repeat given how the academy will now have to be run. We won't buy buying McBurnies for £100k apiece to sit in the u23s for three seasons from now on. The recruitment picture has changed regardless of category status.
We are incredibly unlikely to ever match last year's productivity. It was the result of a 4 year clog in the development and recruitment pipeline suddenly being cleared, a one off windfall. To make future decisions based on that season would be crazy.
I would love us to keep Cat One as long as possible but when the parachute payments are gone the extra £1m a season for One over Two is going to be >5% of our turnover. It'll be the same players, with the same opportunities, and the same facilities (unless we sell them) at a club with the same overall status in the football world regardless of category. Our academy has already downgraded in significant ways since relegation, the EPPP label isn't everything. | | | |
| Importance of academy highlighted. on 17:09 - Aug 20 with 1158 views | jackrmee |
| Importance of academy highlighted. on 12:28 - Aug 20 by jasper_T |
Two assets, one of whom we aren't going to repeat given how the academy will now have to be run. We won't buy buying McBurnies for £100k apiece to sit in the u23s for three seasons from now on. The recruitment picture has changed regardless of category status.
We are incredibly unlikely to ever match last year's productivity. It was the result of a 4 year clog in the development and recruitment pipeline suddenly being cleared, a one off windfall. To make future decisions based on that season would be crazy.
I would love us to keep Cat One as long as possible but when the parachute payments are gone the extra £1m a season for One over Two is going to be >5% of our turnover. It'll be the same players, with the same opportunities, and the same facilities (unless we sell them) at a club with the same overall status in the football world regardless of category. Our academy has already downgraded in significant ways since relegation, the EPPP label isn't everything. |
"extra £1m a season for One over Two is going to be >5% of our turnover. It'll be the same players, with the same opportunities, and the same facilities (unless we sell them) at a club with the same overall status in the football world regardless of category."
*So we would be paying an extra £1m a year just to be playing against premium u23 opposition? Is that the only benefit?
"Our academy has already downgraded in significant ways since relegation."
*In what sense? |  |
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| Importance of academy highlighted. on 17:43 - Aug 20 with 1129 views | jasper_T |
| Importance of academy highlighted. on 17:09 - Aug 20 by jackrmee |
"extra £1m a season for One over Two is going to be >5% of our turnover. It'll be the same players, with the same opportunities, and the same facilities (unless we sell them) at a club with the same overall status in the football world regardless of category."
*So we would be paying an extra £1m a year just to be playing against premium u23 opposition? Is that the only benefit?
"Our academy has already downgraded in significant ways since relegation."
*In what sense? |
Several youth coaches were made redundant at the start of the summer without replacement (we like many clubs were overstaffed for Cat One minimum standards). We don't play Checkatrade fixtures any more. The u23s have been relegated to PL2 division 2. We have less money to spend on wages and recruitment.
We may still be Cat One but the picture is still different for young players and their demanding parents/agents. Not all negative, of course. They might actually get a senior game here one day.
There are benefits to the status beyond the fixture list but the EPPP system - much like FFP - does disproportionately benefit the rich clubs that can afford to spend spend spend to make use of their advantages. Cat One clubs can poach players from lower tier academies, sure, but it's not free. | | | |
| Importance of academy highlighted. on 19:37 - Aug 20 with 1070 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Importance of academy highlighted. on 11:28 - Aug 20 by Blue_Blood |
That's when there should have been calls regarding downgrading your academy. (Especially as you had management who showed little interest in the academy)
Now you're seeing the fruit and it's funding itself then it would be ridiculous downgrading.
In response to your second paragraph, as I've said before, it's not impossible to produce from Category 2 or even 3 but your best opportunity is by maintaining category 1. Surely that is obvious? |
Well poor old Exeter City produced both Grimes and Ampadu.
Well done to Exeter. |  |
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| Importance of academy highlighted. on 15:42 - Aug 21 with 975 views | morristonboy |
Great to see products of our academy in the Welsh squad. Pity the FAW didn't give the manager's job to Osian Roberts than Giggs. | | | |
| Importance of academy highlighted. on 15:58 - Aug 22 with 867 views | Catullus |
| Importance of academy highlighted. on 00:27 - Aug 20 by jackrmee |
We may not be able to compete with the prem clubs, but we are the best of the rest.
Every time a player signs for us, they seem amazed at our facilities and each one of them say it was a big factor in signing. That must go for the kids too (or their parents, as has already been mentioned). |
I thought the Academy did little for us in the EPL but it has been vital since relegation. None of us can see the future though it looks a given that we need to keep the academy at Cat 1 and keep hoping to churn out quality players that sustain our first team and then a big profit in transfer fees.
Keeping it going through lean times is the really hard part in a cut throat market place. Cam Tosh and Waggy have worked wonders, long may they continue doing so. It looks part of the reason for choosing Cooper too, his record with youth teams being excellent. | |
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