| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about "the retweet" 22:38 - Dec 1 with 11471 views | Davillin |
I begin with an admittedly long preface.
For most of my 81 years, starting during World War II, I have held Britain in the highest esteem. I have studied British literature and history while both a student and a teacher in university. For years, I faithfully read The Manchester Guardian almost daily [on paper in the library at the university where I taught]; For years I was subscribed to Punch and a couple of British motorcycle magazines; I owned six British motorcycles; and supported a Welsh football club.
Over the past 30 years or thereabouts I have taken my annual holiday in Europe. Except for visiting old friends in The Netherlands, France, and Italy, they have all been to the U.K. , from Inverness to Hayling island, and from sea to sea.
Until recently, the "special relationship" between our two countries has been a matter of deep satisfaction and some pride. Without identifying it as such, I considered both Britain and the British automatic and mutually faithful friends [Please, those who will be tempted to mock those statements, move on without comment, thanks.]
I believe firmly that the overwhelming majority [probably close to "totality"] of Americans have the same attitudes. Personally, I have never heard a single negative comment from an American about Britain and the British.
I discount the boorish, but vocally silent, incivility of the previous President, for example, regarding the bust of Churchill [which the present President corrected as one of his first acts] and for worse treatment of visiting British dignitaries. It is small consolation that the previous president has treated fellow Americans worse on occasion.
To my major point.
In recent times, it is clear to me, the attitude of many [too many] Brits toward the United States has declined precipitously, too often to downright insulting hatred. Note that my lifetime study of philosophy enables me to put that all aside as something over which I have no control.
However, when that reaches British persons of high political rank and affects what I consider vital aspects of our countries' relationship, it becomes worrisome at least. That is full upon us now.
Here we have a British Prime Minister publically and insultingly attacking an American President for "retweeting" references to years-old activities of Islamic terrorists committing unspeakable acts. Note that that retweet has not caused one person to be tortured or killed. This, while she ignores the most vicious contemporary attacks by Islamic terrorists on her own citizens and those of the Continent.
I cannot help wondering whose political ass she is kissing -- from the Islamic terrorists or Islamic rulers, to the powers that be in the European Union, mollifying them about BREXIT?
Is she doing this so forcefully to make it difficult, if not impossible, to reach a new bilateral agreement with the United States on trade and economic issues -- an agreement which would work decidedly to the benefit of the U.K. -- pointedly to one no longer ruled by the despots of the E.U.?
Or am I missing the point completely because she is, with too much subtlety for me, actually working against the very BREXIT result she is legally bound to bring into being?
I am fully aware that many [most? all?] of you do not see the powerful influence of your anti-Trump and increasingly anti-American media, but I live with it every single day here in the states, so it is far easier for me to see the same bias -- and always with the same words telling the same falsehoods -- over there.
Candidly, when I first heard of your Prime Minister's rant about my President's "retweet," I thought that she did not have her priorities in order -- the retweet of videos which show the coldest truths about terrorism compared with the endless stream of even worse terroristic behaviour all over Europe -- but now I have to wonder whether she knows full well what she is doing, and that is killing BREXIT, or at least working to get the U.K.'s relationship with the E.U. back in line with the European globalist power structure which she has supported in the past. That would entail stopping the possibility of a far-reaching trade agreement with the unspoken assumed enemy of both the E.U. and a new global system.
We're knee-deep in shit with no bottom on the bucket we're all standing in, and too many powerful forces keep shoveling more in. Or having their puppets doing it for them.
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about "the retweet" on 00:12 - Dec 3 with 2070 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
America deserve the c@nt
And the sooner the American cu nts build a wall and a roof over themselves the better the world will be.
F@ck off , the lot of you |  |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about "the retweet" on 00:40 - Dec 3 with 2053 views | KrisP |
I knew Trump was on Twitter, didn't know he posted here as well. |  | | |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 01:10 - Dec 3 with 2032 views | LeonWasGod |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 21:42 - Dec 2 by Lohengrin |
1924? Alright then imagine it's February 28th, 1924, Cotts. You've just picked up that morning's edition of The Guardian, or the Bible as lots on this thread probably regard it. You'd be greeted with the headline "Hitler is the hero of the hour!" and further regaled to learn that "his defence which takes up columns in this morning's paper has made a great impression. The thirty-four-year-old Hitler has caught the imagination of the entire nation."
Cool or not cool?
I'm inclined to cut The Guardian some slack there. The editor didn't have a crystal ball and without the benefit of hindsight it's bloody difficult to properly interpret what's right in front of you, I'd say. I''m sure you agree.
What if you do have the benefit of hindsight? What if the passage of time has allowed for a proper evaluation of historical crime? What are we to make of a party leader, sorry, Leader, who quotes Enver Hoxha, a Shadow Chancellor who quotes Mao Zedong and a Shadow Home Secretary that publically defends the same?
As amusing as it may be to see brickbats thrown at an irate Trump, let's not pretend that the hands doing the throwing are in any way clean. |
Wrong thread. Nobody's discussing Labour. |  | | |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 08:53 - Dec 3 with 1987 views | exiledclaseboy |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about "the retweet" on 22:48 - Dec 1 by Darran |
I asked on here yesterday why so many people get so worked up about Trump,I think part of it is that it takes the gloss off the shit they’re living in here.
Personally I think the bloke is a fuçking idiot,an embarrassment to the position he holds and an embarrassment to the United States.
The President of the United States should not be on Twitter. Some of his own tweets are hideous.
I’ll tell you something else too and you can bookmark this. If he does come over here in February to open the new US embassy the Lefties will cost this country a small fortune because they just can’t help themselves. |
I’ll tell you something else too and you can bookmark this as well. If trump does come here I hope that he’s hounded and that there are protesters everywhere the prick goes. And there will be. And they won’t all be “lefties” either. [Post edited 3 Dec 2017 8:57]
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 08:56 - Dec 3 with 1987 views | exiledclaseboy |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 21:42 - Dec 2 by Lohengrin |
1924? Alright then imagine it's February 28th, 1924, Cotts. You've just picked up that morning's edition of The Guardian, or the Bible as lots on this thread probably regard it. You'd be greeted with the headline "Hitler is the hero of the hour!" and further regaled to learn that "his defence which takes up columns in this morning's paper has made a great impression. The thirty-four-year-old Hitler has caught the imagination of the entire nation."
Cool or not cool?
I'm inclined to cut The Guardian some slack there. The editor didn't have a crystal ball and without the benefit of hindsight it's bloody difficult to properly interpret what's right in front of you, I'd say. I''m sure you agree.
What if you do have the benefit of hindsight? What if the passage of time has allowed for a proper evaluation of historical crime? What are we to make of a party leader, sorry, Leader, who quotes Enver Hoxha, a Shadow Chancellor who quotes Mao Zedong and a Shadow Home Secretary that publically defends the same?
As amusing as it may be to see brickbats thrown at an irate Trump, let's not pretend that the hands doing the throwing are in any way clean. |
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Roger Irrelevant. He’s completely hatstand. | |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 09:34 - Dec 3 with 1957 views | Lohengrin |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 08:56 - Dec 3 by exiledclaseboy |
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Roger Irrelevant. He’s completely hatstand. |
I was replying to Cotts's "little thought experiment." it's as germane as it gets.  |  |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 09:36 - Dec 3 with 1954 views | Lohengrin |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 01:10 - Dec 3 by LeonWasGod |
Wrong thread. Nobody's discussing Labour. |
Go back and read the post I was replying to. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 10:53 - Dec 3 with 1904 views | Darran |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 08:53 - Dec 3 by exiledclaseboy |
I’ll tell you something else too and you can bookmark this as well. If trump does come here I hope that he’s hounded and that there are protesters everywhere the prick goes. And there will be. And they won’t all be “lefties” either. [Post edited 3 Dec 2017 8:57]
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Andrew I don’t disagree with what you’re saying in theory but it won’t achieve anything,he won’t give a fuçk and it’ll cost the country lots of money.
Personally I don’t think he should be allowed on these shores. Other right wing twáts have been banned in the past and the same should go for him. |  |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 11:00 - Dec 3 with 1897 views | TheResurrection |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 09:34 - Dec 3 by Lohengrin |
I was replying to Cotts's "little thought experiment." it's as germane as it gets. |
You were trying pathetically to point score using your warped sense of territorialism and likening Corbyn to Hitler.
Being well read in the subjects that get you off doesn't make you clever, it just makes you a bit of a kunt? |  |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 11:14 - Dec 3 with 1882 views | Lohengrin |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 11:00 - Dec 3 by TheResurrection |
You were trying pathetically to point score using your warped sense of territorialism and likening Corbyn to Hitler.
Being well read in the subjects that get you off doesn't make you clever, it just makes you a bit of a kunt? |
Comparing Corbyn to Hitler? 
Go back and read it again. Slowly. Start with Cotts's post about 1924 then move on to The Guardian editorial from February of that year. See if you can see a correlation. I appreciate it's the Sunday morning after the night before but try all the same.
While you're at it see if you can come up with any workable divergence between re-tweeting (whatever that is?) and vocal regurgitation. | |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 11:37 - Dec 3 with 1848 views | TheResurrection |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 11:14 - Dec 3 by Lohengrin |
Comparing Corbyn to Hitler?
Go back and read it again. Slowly. Start with Cotts's post about 1924 then move on to The Guardian editorial from February of that year. See if you can see a correlation. I appreciate it's the Sunday morning after the night before but try all the same.
While you're at it see if you can come up with any workable divergence between re-tweeting (whatever that is?) and vocal regurgitation. |
oh I got your drift, Sunday morning, Monday afternoon, whenever.
Intellectualising your nasty little far right agenda cuts nothing I'm afraid.
And go back and read your shit, you're alright mush. I'd rather not | |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 11:50 - Dec 3 with 1826 views | Lohengrin |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 11:37 - Dec 3 by TheResurrection |
oh I got your drift, Sunday morning, Monday afternoon, whenever.
Intellectualising your nasty little far right agenda cuts nothing I'm afraid.
And go back and read your shit, you're alright mush. I'd rather not |
Ah! you've gone the whole hog! Time was you had a mind of your own now you're traipsing merrily down the road where anybody who doesn't willingly place themselves in a 'liberal straightjacket' has that classic invention - a 'far-right' agenda. Get out while there's still time!
I've done you a favour, anyway. This time yesterday you probably didn't know who Enver Hoxha was, now you do. Squirrel that one away for the pub quiz.  | |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about "the retweet" on 11:52 - Dec 3 with 1821 views | acejack3065 |
Oh f**k me, Davs right. It’s actually our fault that our fledgling Prime Minister found her backbone for once.
It’s our fault that our liberal media has us annoyed at the president of the USA retweeting our home grown neo facists. We should’ve welcomed his enlightenment, after all we are living in a sharia shit hole.
Instead we should be more annoyed at the former president of the USA removing a bust of winston Churchill from the Oval Office or being terse to an unnamed fleet of diplomats at parties. Pick that one straight out of the Fox News big book of talking points why don’t cha. |  | | |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 11:57 - Dec 3 with 1810 views | Lohengrin |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about "the retweet" on 11:52 - Dec 3 by acejack3065 |
Oh f**k me, Davs right. It’s actually our fault that our fledgling Prime Minister found her backbone for once.
It’s our fault that our liberal media has us annoyed at the president of the USA retweeting our home grown neo facists. We should’ve welcomed his enlightenment, after all we are living in a sharia shit hole.
Instead we should be more annoyed at the former president of the USA removing a bust of winston Churchill from the Oval Office or being terse to an unnamed fleet of diplomats at parties. Pick that one straight out of the Fox News big book of talking points why don’t cha. |
"Instead we should be more annoyed at the former president of the USA removing a bust of Winston Churchill from the Oval Office."
I can't say as I gave much thought to the sainted Barrack's ideas about home decor but I'll confess to having been irritated by his "back of the queue" intervention. Were you? | |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 11:59 - Dec 3 with 1805 views | exiledclaseboy |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 10:53 - Dec 3 by Darran |
Andrew I don’t disagree with what you’re saying in theory but it won’t achieve anything,he won’t give a fuçk and it’ll cost the country lots of money.
Personally I don’t think he should be allowed on these shores. Other right wing twáts have been banned in the past and the same should go for him. |
The right to protest is everyone’s. Regardless of whether you or I agree with them. I don’t agree that he should be banned from coming here. Although I think the government should consider carefully whether he’s worthy of being afforded all the trappings of a state visit. It would be right up there with the shameful execrcise involving the Chinese premier a few years ago. | |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 12:03 - Dec 3 with 1789 views | acejack3065 |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 11:57 - Dec 3 by Lohengrin |
"Instead we should be more annoyed at the former president of the USA removing a bust of Winston Churchill from the Oval Office."
I can't say as I gave much thought to the sainted Barrack's ideas about home decor but I'll confess to having been irritated by his "back of the queue" intervention. Were you? |
I don’t install sainthood upon Obama at all. After the dust has settled I’m sure he will be reviewed as an above average president who will probably be remembered more for being the first non white president than for recovering the awful economy he inherited.
I think the impression that he hated Britain is a wholly false one however, created by right wing talking heads just to criticise Obama. We know how true that is because they are more than happy to condescend us and tell us what we should think about Donald’s behaviour towards us. Our outrage isn’t sincere revulsion towards the revolting pig but just more anti Donald liberal propaganda apparently.
On Obama’s intervention during the referendum, I thought he was right. Why should we be given special treatment just because we’ve told Europe to piss off. Our trading relationship with Europe, or lack thereof, shouldn’t really be the Presidents prerogative. [Post edited 3 Dec 2017 12:07]
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 12:10 - Dec 3 with 1781 views | Lohengrin |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 12:03 - Dec 3 by acejack3065 |
I don’t install sainthood upon Obama at all. After the dust has settled I’m sure he will be reviewed as an above average president who will probably be remembered more for being the first non white president than for recovering the awful economy he inherited.
I think the impression that he hated Britain is a wholly false one however, created by right wing talking heads just to criticise Obama. We know how true that is because they are more than happy to condescend us and tell us what we should think about Donald’s behaviour towards us. Our outrage isn’t sincere revulsion towards the revolting pig but just more anti Donald liberal propaganda apparently.
On Obama’s intervention during the referendum, I thought he was right. Why should we be given special treatment just because we’ve told Europe to piss off. Our trading relationship with Europe, or lack thereof, shouldn’t really be the Presidents prerogative. [Post edited 3 Dec 2017 12:07]
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What do you mean you thought he was right? It was a clear attempt by a foreign head of state to influence a domestic election. Forgive me if you think the parallel is wide of the mark but isn't that the exact accusation being levelled at Putin?
I wonder what the quid pro quo was? It seemed to me at the time he was doing it as a favour to Cameron, it still does. | |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 12:22 - Dec 3 with 1759 views | TheResurrection |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 11:50 - Dec 3 by Lohengrin |
Ah! you've gone the whole hog! Time was you had a mind of your own now you're traipsing merrily down the road where anybody who doesn't willingly place themselves in a 'liberal straightjacket' has that classic invention - a 'far-right' agenda. Get out while there's still time!
I've done you a favour, anyway. This time yesterday you probably didn't know who Enver Hoxha was, now you do. Squirrel that one away for the pub quiz. |
The mind is very much my own, but you feel having a contrary view on socialism makes you some kind of White Knight on a horse as high as your pretentious Bullshit?
You can have that one...
But me, I'm not so entrenched in my own "right" confirmation bias, I feel the need to spend a life obsessed.
"An open mind, a closed fist" - who said that? | |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about "the retweet" on 12:29 - Dec 3 with 1749 views | whoflungdung |
There s a pretty nasty lefty purge going on in this country but hey it's not commented upon.
Corbyn...saviour of the working ,ordinary ,downtrodden masses is engineering a massive cull of decent Labour Party candidates in local parties especially Sheffield where one has been deselected for being too working class . The momentum movement of Islington luvvies is subtlety doing what Militant Tendency did.
Power to the People
My arse | |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 12:40 - Dec 3 with 1743 views | acejack3065 |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 12:10 - Dec 3 by Lohengrin |
What do you mean you thought he was right? It was a clear attempt by a foreign head of state to influence a domestic election. Forgive me if you think the parallel is wide of the mark but isn't that the exact accusation being levelled at Putin?
I wonder what the quid pro quo was? It seemed to me at the time he was doing it as a favour to Cameron, it still does. |
Well I don’t see why the USA would prioritise us? We can’t make them arrange a new trade deal for us on the spot. Given that a trade deal with the USA would obviously affect them, it’s perfectly normal that the president might have an opinion on that deal.
And no Loh, that’s not what Putin is accused of. Putin’s Russia is accused of illegally hacking voter ID data, illegally funding Facebook disinformation campaigns and other acts of espionage around the election. Putin publically backed Trump.
Stop deflecting and obfuscating. You’re better than that. | | | |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 12:59 - Dec 3 with 1724 views | Lohengrin |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 12:22 - Dec 3 by TheResurrection |
The mind is very much my own, but you feel having a contrary view on socialism makes you some kind of White Knight on a horse as high as your pretentious Bullshit?
You can have that one...
But me, I'm not so entrenched in my own "right" confirmation bias, I feel the need to spend a life obsessed.
"An open mind, a closed fist" - who said that? |
Who said it? My first thought was Orwell but I wasn't sure so I looked it up. Turns out it was Prosser.
A contrary view on Socialism? Which form? If you want to look at somebody like Robert Blatchford or Robert Owen, or a figure like A J Cook (ask your Grandfather) then you'd find me supportive. In the case of Blatchford I'd be hard pressed to disagree with just about anything he wrote or stood for. Decent men.
That's one tradition. I stared at the other side, the indecent, in Berlin in the '80s. Cruel. Coercive. Statist. You don't need a white horse to want to make a stand against enslavement just a basic sense of right and wrong. Nothing more than that. | |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 13:16 - Dec 3 with 1713 views | Darran |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 12:59 - Dec 3 by Lohengrin |
Who said it? My first thought was Orwell but I wasn't sure so I looked it up. Turns out it was Prosser.
A contrary view on Socialism? Which form? If you want to look at somebody like Robert Blatchford or Robert Owen, or a figure like A J Cook (ask your Grandfather) then you'd find me supportive. In the case of Blatchford I'd be hard pressed to disagree with just about anything he wrote or stood for. Decent men.
That's one tradition. I stared at the other side, the indecent, in Berlin in the '80s. Cruel. Coercive. Statist. You don't need a white horse to want to make a stand against enslavement just a basic sense of right and wrong. Nothing more than that. |
Good fisting you could do with. | |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 13:20 - Dec 3 with 1709 views | Lohengrin |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 12:40 - Dec 3 by acejack3065 |
Well I don’t see why the USA would prioritise us? We can’t make them arrange a new trade deal for us on the spot. Given that a trade deal with the USA would obviously affect them, it’s perfectly normal that the president might have an opinion on that deal.
And no Loh, that’s not what Putin is accused of. Putin’s Russia is accused of illegally hacking voter ID data, illegally funding Facebook disinformation campaigns and other acts of espionage around the election. Putin publically backed Trump.
Stop deflecting and obfuscating. You’re better than that. |
I think there are any number of reasons, myriad ties of blood, history and language that cast a slightly different light on how the US and the UK regard one another as opposed to perceptions of other nations without those ties. I think that's beyond dispute, Ace.
It's interesting to see this fear of Russia starting to ape the 'alien menace' tropes of the Buchan and Childers novels preceding The Great War. The clandestine, almost supernatural abilities ascribed to the operatives are quite amusing to look back on, as will all this in fifty years time. | |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 13:22 - Dec 3 with 1705 views | Highjack |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 10:53 - Dec 3 by Darran |
Andrew I don’t disagree with what you’re saying in theory but it won’t achieve anything,he won’t give a fuçk and it’ll cost the country lots of money.
Personally I don’t think he should be allowed on these shores. Other right wing twáts have been banned in the past and the same should go for him. |
If we banned world leaders from coming because some people don't like them and their politics we'd never have a state visit ever again. We'd definitely have to kick May and corbyn out too which wouldn't be a bad thing. |  |
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