| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... 17:26 - Jan 2 with 19165 views | dgt73 |
I am.................  |  |
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| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 12:21 - Jan 3 with 1250 views | Phil_S |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 12:16 - Jan 3 by Rancid |
Ah right so an investor could be prepared to pump money into us without the need to be part of SCFC other than trusting Huw with their money? Is that what's being said here? |
What he said was you don't have to sell shares to get investment
Of all the paper talk around this deal there has never been any mention of money actually being placed into the club? |  | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 12:23 - Jan 3 with 1246 views | JackSomething |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 12:16 - Jan 3 by Rancid |
Ah right so an investor could be prepared to pump money into us without the need to be part of SCFC other than trusting Huw with their money? Is that what's being said here? |
Sorry, phone playing up and post was blank for some reason. What I said was:
Nope. I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure there are options between the two extremes you are suggesting. [Post edited 3 Jan 2015 12:26]
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| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 12:27 - Jan 3 with 1227 views | Dr_Winston |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 12:17 - Jan 3 by reddythered |
Who has claimed those names? Even Anus hasn't. |
Plus Alan Gloag is actually a woman called Ann and is Brian Souter's sister. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 12:40 - Jan 3 with 1196 views | ScoobyDoo |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 06:52 - Jan 3 by NOTRAC |
I suppose a Cardiff thread is a very strange place to talk about this, but in a way of course it isn't.
Tonight we saw ,to my mind,a warning.
You are of course quite right to praise everyone connected with Swansea City over the last ten plus years. Original investors put their money into the club without any real certainty that they would ever see a return on that money again.Expectation for those investors and fans alike grew with success.
Cardiff on the other hand,over roughly the same period,have continually expected success.
The £1m that has backed Swansea's success is peanuts compared to the money that has been put into Cardiff.
Sam Hamman saw Cardiff as a Top Premiership,or indeed even a top European side ,even when they were in the lower leagues.From the beginning he stated that...we are bigger than Barcelona etc.
In the same way that Swansea's investment couldn't compare with Hammans,so Hammans cannot compare with Tan's.
Cardiff financially were in a perilous position when Tan took over.His investment in Cardiff has been enormous.He has paid off all their debts.
As far as the fans are concerned this virtually doesn't matter.
The clubs success or otherwise on the field is all that matters.
To the average Cardiff fan the club's present position of being mid table in the Championship is a disaster.there is only one person to blame for that,and that of course is Vincent Tan.
He is the man that took over a club that was destined for the very top in British and European football, and it hasn't happened.
There are now calls for Hamman to come back and take the club over,for God's sake!
Expectation is everything.Reality is 4175 turning up for an F A Cup game.
So how does this compare with Swansea's situation.
Financially, all the original investors in Swansea have done very well.All have received dividends totalling three times their original monies.
Is it right that some should now expect more.Is it right that they should make a killing.
In the world of reality one could justify it.
However on expectation levels one would have to say no.
These men were not originally investors. Their investment and the clubs success has been built not on expectation levels as at Cardiff, but a sense of wonderment and pride as achievement followed achievement.
Any sale of shares to anyone but true Swansea fans would break that magical ingredient.
It is important to realise that these Americans are no differen t to your Hammans and Tans.They are investors,pure and simple. They have the history. There are also the doubts in their CVs regarding dubious involvements in their past.
To trust that those people who have run our club are doing the right thing by selling to these Americans simply because they have not let us down in the past is naive.
Whoever sells their shares are doing it for personal gain and not for the future good of Swansea City.
It is likely that for every year that we are in the Premiership the current investors will continue to have their financial rewards in dividends at least equal to their original investments.Those that are already doing so will receive wages ,and contracts will continue with their individual firms,if appropriate.
The sale of shares is pure greed,and not based on any original principles.
If anyone reading this is naive enough to think that the Americans will be happy to continue with a minority interest in the same way that the other directors have been, then their expectation levels are I am sorry to say as exaggerated as those of the average Cardiff fan.
For those who think it would be a step forward for our club to be owned by American investors ask yourself one question.Is it worth the risk.
Do we really want to end up with 4000 watching an FA Cup home game . |
You say that the fact that Vincent Tan has paid off all our debts that it doesn't matter to us Cardiff fans, well that ain't strictly true. When he first came to the club we were very grateful of his investment, obviously we didn't know what was to unfold. To my mind it started to go downhill when TG left, or was removed from the club, he had the Media nous of putting things over in which us as fans could relate to, he had the respect of the fans as he was approachable. We now know Vincent Tan was pulling the strings and what he says goes and if anyone challenges him they are not there long. I think Vincent Tan has done some wonderful things for us ( apart from the rebrand ) but it's his total contempt he has shown to us the supporters that gets me, no dialogue, no compromise, no debate, just a Christmas Message to us to toe the line.
As for our position in the league, the way we are playing, totally justified. |  | | |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 12:44 - Jan 3 with 1189 views | reddythered |
NuclearBlue is an idiot. I've a 99% certainty I know who gave him those names, a well known WUM. Almost as bad as when he claimed Carlos Slim was involved. | |
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| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 12:44 - Jan 3 with 1186 views | Sweyns_Eye |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 12:27 - Jan 3 by Dr_Winston |
Plus Alan Gloag is actually a woman called Ann and is Brian Souter's sister. |
Could be something in it then - Souter has a charitable trust that assists projects engaged in the relief of human suffering. Sounds ripe for relief of the bluebirds. |  |
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| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 12:46 - Jan 3 with 1182 views | pencoedjack |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 12:40 - Jan 3 by ScoobyDoo |
You say that the fact that Vincent Tan has paid off all our debts that it doesn't matter to us Cardiff fans, well that ain't strictly true. When he first came to the club we were very grateful of his investment, obviously we didn't know what was to unfold. To my mind it started to go downhill when TG left, or was removed from the club, he had the Media nous of putting things over in which us as fans could relate to, he had the respect of the fans as he was approachable. We now know Vincent Tan was pulling the strings and what he says goes and if anyone challenges him they are not there long. I think Vincent Tan has done some wonderful things for us ( apart from the rebrand ) but it's his total contempt he has shown to us the supporters that gets me, no dialogue, no compromise, no debate, just a Christmas Message to us to toe the line.
As for our position in the league, the way we are playing, totally justified. |
Really ? All seemed to start 'going downhill' when you got relegated to most outsiders. |  | | |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 12:47 - Jan 3 with 1179 views | reddythered |
Given Souter's business record, eh... frying pan, heat, jumping that kinda thing.
Although given the theatrics surrounding us, Cameron Mackintosh could be a good shout. | |
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| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 12:56 - Jan 3 with 1147 views | acejack3065 |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 12:44 - Jan 3 by reddythered |
NuclearBlue is an idiot. I've a 99% certainty I know who gave him those names, a well known WUM. Almost as bad as when he claimed Carlos Slim was involved. |
He claimed that the former richest man in the world was planning to invest?
That's toe curlingly embarrassing if he's pulled that out of his bum. |  | | |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 12:57 - Jan 3 with 1145 views | reddythered |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 12:46 - Jan 3 by pencoedjack |
Really ? All seemed to start 'going downhill' when you got relegated to most outsiders. |
If anyone challenged Hammam or didn't follow what he wanted, they were very quickly gone. Anus et al didn't seem to publicise that.
Take the goalkeeping coach George Wood. His son instead took a bigger deal offered by Man City at I believe age 14. Hammam was livid, Wood was fired soon after - as if Wood had been disloyal to the club by not forcing his son to turn down the Man City deal. Wood I believe either won his unfair dismissal case or had it settled out of court.
In terms of the protests, it's utter garbage to claim protests *now* are purely about the shirt change. Tan has consistently stated under him it'll be red. Hence I keep repeating, the time for mass action was years ago.
Instead, people wanted the money. Wanted the Prem football. Protest now when Prem football looks out of the window for next season.
I've little doubt there is an element wanting to lead the protests for their own ends. I'm sure at the end of things they'll proudly proclaim how great they are as fans.
The fact remains, marches, boycotts are all utterly meaningless, all utterly futile. The only way Tan will go will be when a deal is made with him that is acceptable. Nothing more, nothing less. | |
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| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:01 - Jan 3 with 1151 views | ScoobyDoo |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 12:46 - Jan 3 by pencoedjack |
Really ? All seemed to start 'going downhill' when you got relegated to most outsiders. |
Look last season should have been a momentous occasion, the whole season was a disaster and I was glad when it ended, we got what we deserved from top to bottom, bottom being the operative word. | | | |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:07 - Jan 3 with 1144 views | ScoobyDoo |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 12:57 - Jan 3 by reddythered |
If anyone challenged Hammam or didn't follow what he wanted, they were very quickly gone. Anus et al didn't seem to publicise that.
Take the goalkeeping coach George Wood. His son instead took a bigger deal offered by Man City at I believe age 14. Hammam was livid, Wood was fired soon after - as if Wood had been disloyal to the club by not forcing his son to turn down the Man City deal. Wood I believe either won his unfair dismissal case or had it settled out of court.
In terms of the protests, it's utter garbage to claim protests *now* are purely about the shirt change. Tan has consistently stated under him it'll be red. Hence I keep repeating, the time for mass action was years ago.
Instead, people wanted the money. Wanted the Prem football. Protest now when Prem football looks out of the window for next season.
I've little doubt there is an element wanting to lead the protests for their own ends. I'm sure at the end of things they'll proudly proclaim how great they are as fans.
The fact remains, marches, boycotts are all utterly meaningless, all utterly futile. The only way Tan will go will be when a deal is made with him that is acceptable. Nothing more, nothing less. |
So the only way Tan is going is turn up in our thousands and wave the red scarves then Reddy? | | | |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:24 - Jan 3 with 1126 views | reddythered |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:07 - Jan 3 by ScoobyDoo |
So the only way Tan is going is turn up in our thousands and wave the red scarves then Reddy? |
No.
Nor will he decide to leave via protests, boycotts or STs not renewing.
Which is why people fail to grasp their protests are utterly futile in the grander scheme of things. | |
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| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:28 - Jan 3 with 1105 views | ScoobyDoo |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:24 - Jan 3 by reddythered |
No.
Nor will he decide to leave via protests, boycotts or STs not renewing.
Which is why people fail to grasp their protests are utterly futile in the grander scheme of things. |
So when you are sat in your seat and everybody around you is wearing blue are they, futile as you say? Because to me that is some sort of protest? | | | |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:33 - Jan 3 with 1083 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:28 - Jan 3 by ScoobyDoo |
So when you are sat in your seat and everybody around you is wearing blue are they, futile as you say? Because to me that is some sort of protest? |
People are going to wear blue because they never bought into the rebrand. And if you own a blue Cardiff shirt with a bluebird on it to a Cardiff game it's a statement . It's not the same as boycotting as you're still putting money in Tan's over length trousers |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:33 - Jan 3 with 1083 views | acejack3065 |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:28 - Jan 3 by ScoobyDoo |
So when you are sat in your seat and everybody around you is wearing blue are they, futile as you say? Because to me that is some sort of protest? |
As long as tan shows no sign of reversing the rebrand then it's completely futile.
So far Tan has shown no sign of deviating from the rebrand. | | | |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:40 - Jan 3 with 1069 views | ScoobyDoo |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:33 - Jan 3 by acejack3065 |
As long as tan shows no sign of reversing the rebrand then it's completely futile.
So far Tan has shown no sign of deviating from the rebrand. |
Well decision would have to be done at the end of the season which said he would make some sort of compromise. Yet he did say if we got promoted, which ain't happening. | | | |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:42 - Jan 3 with 1062 views | reddythered |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:28 - Jan 3 by ScoobyDoo |
So when you are sat in your seat and everybody around you is wearing blue are they, futile as you say? Because to me that is some sort of protest? |
I'm over the age of 30 by a distance sadly, wearing club colours is something I don't do. Whatever is clean(ish) gets thrown on. I wouldn't however discount wearing a onesie underneath everything in the cold.
The fact remains that wearing blue isn't a protest. At least not an effective one. Venting of feelings, sure. It's certainly futile given the fact money has been paid to the club.
You tell me, what protest will force Tan to sell, which is what many seem to want. What plan do the protestors have for the fallout after Tan sells? The answer to both is simply, "None".
People protest now, wanting the media to fall in love with their cause. Want fellow football fans to back them. Both groups would simply reply with the same thing Tan said - why didn't you protest when in the Prem?
The fact is we're rapidly approaching an endgame to the whole saga. It'll either go that a buyer emerges soon ( and it's often the case of better the devil you know - I'd favour Tan over Hammam any day ) or we'll see the club cutting back big time to lower the wage bill, live within our means without Tan splashing the cash.
I'd personally favour the latter as it would be in the long term interests. | |
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| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:44 - Jan 3 with 1053 views | ScoobyDoo |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:33 - Jan 3 by Brynmill_Jack |
People are going to wear blue because they never bought into the rebrand. And if you own a blue Cardiff shirt with a bluebird on it to a Cardiff game it's a statement . It's not the same as boycotting as you're still putting money in Tan's over length trousers |
Well a lot did buy in to the rebrand but they are very few and far between now, I have never had any problem with them as it was their choice and good luck to them. There are plans for boycotts this month but we will have to see how they go.
The renewal of season tickets will be the biggest statement. | | | |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:46 - Jan 3 with 1049 views | reddythered |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:40 - Jan 3 by ScoobyDoo |
Well decision would have to be done at the end of the season which said he would make some sort of compromise. Yet he did say if we got promoted, which ain't happening. |
The major problem I have is people go on about Tan's promises etc.
Given the fanbase reaction for the most part, some of the racist vitriole a minority have aimed at him - christ, look at the Trust and the Mackay "lifetime member"crap, took them ages to remove that whilst refusing to accept his part in textgate - people seem to disregard the probability he' changed his mind due to the abuse.
From Tan's perspective, he probably sees it that people wanted the money for nothing. He wanted red, that was his quid pro quo. Hence the time for protests was when the change was made to red. Anything now won't be effective as a consequence. | |
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| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:47 - Jan 3 with 1046 views | acejack3065 |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:40 - Jan 3 by ScoobyDoo |
Well decision would have to be done at the end of the season which said he would make some sort of compromise. Yet he did say if we got promoted, which ain't happening. |
Why on earth would you believe him though? He's lied about the rebrand as well as debt to equity.
Also logically, why would he cancel the rebrand after promotion? There is no reason for him to change the colour back when the team is successful.
I think Tan knows he can get away with saying whatever he wants to keep certain sections of fans quiet for a bit. | | | |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:49 - Jan 3 with 1037 views | reddythered |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:44 - Jan 3 by ScoobyDoo |
Well a lot did buy in to the rebrand but they are very few and far between now, I have never had any problem with them as it was their choice and good luck to them. There are plans for boycotts this month but we will have to see how they go.
The renewal of season tickets will be the biggest statement. |
I'd agree the ST renewal will be a statement of sorts, but there are many factors involved.
The ST price freeze is over, meaning STs would go up - though I'd be surprised if the club didn't organise deals.
No sign atm of Prem football next season. If we suddenly get on a run, I'd suspect a number claiming to not renew will renew. | |
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| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 14:10 - Jan 3 with 1005 views | ScoobyDoo |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:42 - Jan 3 by reddythered |
I'm over the age of 30 by a distance sadly, wearing club colours is something I don't do. Whatever is clean(ish) gets thrown on. I wouldn't however discount wearing a onesie underneath everything in the cold.
The fact remains that wearing blue isn't a protest. At least not an effective one. Venting of feelings, sure. It's certainly futile given the fact money has been paid to the club.
You tell me, what protest will force Tan to sell, which is what many seem to want. What plan do the protestors have for the fallout after Tan sells? The answer to both is simply, "None".
People protest now, wanting the media to fall in love with their cause. Want fellow football fans to back them. Both groups would simply reply with the same thing Tan said - why didn't you protest when in the Prem?
The fact is we're rapidly approaching an endgame to the whole saga. It'll either go that a buyer emerges soon ( and it's often the case of better the devil you know - I'd favour Tan over Hammam any day ) or we'll see the club cutting back big time to lower the wage bill, live within our means without Tan splashing the cash.
I'd personally favour the latter as it would be in the long term interests. |
Right lets digest this a bit, me personally as I have already stated have never worried what colour people wear, sat next to many who have worn red, never understood it but it was their choice, as for you in a onesie? well probably would have made an exception with you and kept a wide berth.
I have told you that protests will force Tan out? Have I? Defended them yes and why not, fans need to pull together now. You say why not last season? there were protests as you well know but chose to forget, not to get Tan out but to get our colours back.
You say fans need a Media love in, well the club did the same to force the rebrand, you know as well as me certain people were portrayed in front of the cameras to put the point across. Vincent Tan gave his opinion on Xmas Day, why not a fans perspective on his message as anyone that walks in to our stadium will get the opinion that the fans are wearing different colours to their team. I don't care if he cuts back, don't think anyone does but we want our colours back, don't you? | | | |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 14:19 - Jan 3 with 975 views | ScoobyDoo |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 13:47 - Jan 3 by acejack3065 |
Why on earth would you believe him though? He's lied about the rebrand as well as debt to equity.
Also logically, why would he cancel the rebrand after promotion? There is no reason for him to change the colour back when the team is successful.
I think Tan knows he can get away with saying whatever he wants to keep certain sections of fans quiet for a bit. |
Well we are over half way through the season and ha hasn't shown his face yet, maybe that is good thing as we have idiots that would disrespect him and what we don't want is abusive insults. Don't think he has met Slade in person yet, not to my knowledge anyway. | | | |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 14:22 - Jan 3 with 963 views | snork44 |
| Own up, who's watching the big game at legoland tonight.... on 06:52 - Jan 3 by NOTRAC |
I suppose a Cardiff thread is a very strange place to talk about this, but in a way of course it isn't.
Tonight we saw ,to my mind,a warning.
You are of course quite right to praise everyone connected with Swansea City over the last ten plus years. Original investors put their money into the club without any real certainty that they would ever see a return on that money again.Expectation for those investors and fans alike grew with success.
Cardiff on the other hand,over roughly the same period,have continually expected success.
The £1m that has backed Swansea's success is peanuts compared to the money that has been put into Cardiff.
Sam Hamman saw Cardiff as a Top Premiership,or indeed even a top European side ,even when they were in the lower leagues.From the beginning he stated that...we are bigger than Barcelona etc.
In the same way that Swansea's investment couldn't compare with Hammans,so Hammans cannot compare with Tan's.
Cardiff financially were in a perilous position when Tan took over.His investment in Cardiff has been enormous.He has paid off all their debts.
As far as the fans are concerned this virtually doesn't matter.
The clubs success or otherwise on the field is all that matters.
To the average Cardiff fan the club's present position of being mid table in the Championship is a disaster.there is only one person to blame for that,and that of course is Vincent Tan.
He is the man that took over a club that was destined for the very top in British and European football, and it hasn't happened.
There are now calls for Hamman to come back and take the club over,for God's sake!
Expectation is everything.Reality is 4175 turning up for an F A Cup game.
So how does this compare with Swansea's situation.
Financially, all the original investors in Swansea have done very well.All have received dividends totalling three times their original monies.
Is it right that some should now expect more.Is it right that they should make a killing.
In the world of reality one could justify it.
However on expectation levels one would have to say no.
These men were not originally investors. Their investment and the clubs success has been built not on expectation levels as at Cardiff, but a sense of wonderment and pride as achievement followed achievement.
Any sale of shares to anyone but true Swansea fans would break that magical ingredient.
It is important to realise that these Americans are no differen t to your Hammans and Tans.They are investors,pure and simple. They have the history. There are also the doubts in their CVs regarding dubious involvements in their past.
To trust that those people who have run our club are doing the right thing by selling to these Americans simply because they have not let us down in the past is naive.
Whoever sells their shares are doing it for personal gain and not for the future good of Swansea City.
It is likely that for every year that we are in the Premiership the current investors will continue to have their financial rewards in dividends at least equal to their original investments.Those that are already doing so will receive wages ,and contracts will continue with their individual firms,if appropriate.
The sale of shares is pure greed,and not based on any original principles.
If anyone reading this is naive enough to think that the Americans will be happy to continue with a minority interest in the same way that the other directors have been, then their expectation levels are I am sorry to say as exaggerated as those of the average Cardiff fan.
For those who think it would be a step forward for our club to be owned by American investors ask yourself one question.Is it worth the risk.
Do we really want to end up with 4000 watching an FA Cup home game . |
I can see where you are going and yes it is a warning in a way, but we had a our own crisis in the Struel/Sharpe years and the madness that was Tony Petty's tenure. But we have learnt the hard way and as a result we have progressed at a measured pace and achieved the ultimate goal of Premier League Football, but the board has seen we need new investment to go to the next level, I would rather we did that in a measured way than go down the route that Cardiff went from Scam the man, The Riddler and now Agent Tan. Remember Cardiff have this sense of entitlement that because they are the 'Capital' then they must have a top class football team and they were going to do it by hook or by crook hence the first two mentioned being appointed and when Tan was brought in , we where already in the Premier League and that was the straw that broke the camels back , hence the rebrand and the hilarity since. I would much prefer to trust the board to do the best for the club in a considered manner than to be scrabbling around desperately for any kind of investment like they have done 44 miles up the road ,where they ended up boycotting a meaningless game or looking to an ex-hooligan and his mate for direction. |  |
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