| Ipswich 05:35 - May 1 with 8431 views | The_Beast1976 |
If they go up, then when they inevitably get relegated next season it will mean yet another team doped up on Prem parachute payments which we have to compete with 🤦♂️. In all honesty, we'd be better off with Leeds going up (not that I want Leeds to go up of course)..
On a related note, if Ipswich do go up then that's yet another team who have gone up to the Prem with successive promotions. Norwich and Southampton did it as well, which proves that sometimes going down to L1 can be a good thing if you use the time wisely. [Post edited 1 May 5:37]
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| Ipswich on 07:00 - May 1 with 5871 views | enfieldargh |
And how long where they in L1. About 3 seasons?.
Having said that a midfield hub of Sam morsey and mass Luongo is a surprise package that has sustained their rise.
Add to that an abundance of strike power and a pacey defence all glued together with a bright young manager then it’s got them rising to the top.
Key for me are the options up front.
It makes the championship that hit harder each year with parachute payment clubs coming down but quite often one club does upset the Apple cart |  |
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| Ipswich on 07:30 - May 1 with 5766 views | Juzzie |
Going down a division is never a good thing.
We got relegated from the PL almost 10 years ago and not looked like going back since.
I never understand any advocation of being relegated.
Getting your house in order is about good management of the club, regardless of what division you’re in so why ‘go down’. [Post edited 1 May 7:31]
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| Ipswich on 08:39 - May 1 with 5632 views | 100percent |
Also going to be interesting to see how they approach being in the Premiership. You'd like to think that they will stick with the nucleus of their present side - the side that has won back to back promotions. |  | | |
| Ipswich on 08:45 - May 1 with 5590 views | stevec |
They’ve amassed about 200 points over two seasons, that ever been equalled before? |  | | |
| Ipswich on 10:02 - May 1 with 5427 views | Stanisgod |
Weren't we only the second club to do back to back in 67 /69 after Charlton ? Seems to be pretty common now . |  |
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| Ipswich on 10:09 - May 1 with 5396 views | ted_hendrix |
| Ipswich on 07:30 - May 1 by Juzzie |
Going down a division is never a good thing.
We got relegated from the PL almost 10 years ago and not looked like going back since.
I never understand any advocation of being relegated.
Getting your house in order is about good management of the club, regardless of what division you’re in so why ‘go down’. [Post edited 1 May 7:31]
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Relegation for QPR this season would have been disastrous, put into context when the new season starts we are basically 46 good results away from getting to the Premier league ourselves, for our club the financial benefit would be a Godsend, I'd hate It but it would be great watching us have some success at last.
League 1 Is a graveyard there's no advantage In getting relegated, none at all. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Ipswich on 10:14 - May 1 with 5364 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Ipswich on 10:09 - May 1 by ted_hendrix |
Relegation for QPR this season would have been disastrous, put into context when the new season starts we are basically 46 good results away from getting to the Premier league ourselves, for our club the financial benefit would be a Godsend, I'd hate It but it would be great watching us have some success at last.
League 1 Is a graveyard there's no advantage In getting relegated, none at all. |
It's better not to go down, but it's much easier to rebuild and come back stronger in that league. It's been proven many times recently by the likes of Sheff U, Ipswich, Luton, Southampton, Sunderland (although they've gone backwards again now) etc. You can do less fire-fighting and more forward, long-term planning. Buy cheaper, with potential, and blood them in a more forgiving league. In this league, once you're in trouble, you're fire-fighting and you can get into a situation of constant short-term fixes which will, in many cases, merely prolong the inevitable. We're all happy now, but if Marti were to get a big offer and move this summer, not much will have changed and we'll be fighting relegation again next season, because that's the spiral we've been in.
We're a fanbase that constantly says this player and that player are not good enough, but we can't afford players who are 'good enough' (for the most part). What we have to do is get players before they become good enough and make them good enough. That's possible, others have done it, but it's easier to do that in League One in the manner Brentford and Luton did.
Still, much better to stay up! |  |
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| Ipswich on 10:34 - May 1 with 5287 views | ted_hendrix |
Blackpool, Wycombe, Wigan, Peterborough, Bolton to name but a few clubs who are still fiffing and faffing around In League One. Gawd knows how long Charlton have been down there and still are.
Relegation Is failure, It has no benefits. | |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Ipswich on 10:39 - May 1 with 5265 views | dannyblue |
| Ipswich on 10:34 - May 1 by ted_hendrix |
Blackpool, Wycombe, Wigan, Peterborough, Bolton to name but a few clubs who are still fiffing and faffing around In League One. Gawd knows how long Charlton have been down there and still are.
Relegation Is failure, It has no benefits. |
I think the back to backs tell us more about the championship. Most teams aren't very good, so momentum is everything. If you get promoted from league 1 with a tight unit with good team spirt, well organised and drilled, who are used to winning, that momentum is going to carry you far in the championship and perhaps all the way. It's not so much being in league 1 that's the advantage...it's being a mature winning team. |  | | |
| Ipswich on 12:06 - May 1 with 5047 views | saxbend |
Since there will always be three year one parachute teams coming down unless the rules ever get changed, I would rather it be as many different clubs as possible, so that more money comes into the league and the biggest advantage isn't confined to a small number of clubs. Might as well be Ipswich and Forest along with the three that come down this year, sooner or later West Brom and Norwich and eventually Fulham, Brentford and Chelsea.
Of course what I would really like to happen would be a wage cap where no club is allowed a wage bill that's beyond the means of the lowest earner in the division, transfer fees that are capped unless being paid to a club that spent the previous season at least one division below the buyer, and (just in case that doesn't render parachute payments completely redundant), a reworking of the parachute system where parachute payments are optional and cost 1 point per ten million pounds up to a maximum of £60 million, and only happen once, immediately following relegation.
Players would still earn plenty of money, but instead of it coming from inflated wages, it's funded directly by broadcasters and sponsors and paid as bonuses and prize money for prescribed achievements and awards decided by the leagues, fans, broadcasters and sponsors themselves. |  | | |
| Ipswich on 12:23 - May 1 with 4977 views | NorthantsHoop |
Ipswich will probably struggle but they might get a foothold who knows. For QPR I want a strong competitive Championship team who are actually progressing with a push for promotion in the next couple of seasons. The last 2 seasons we have gone backwards but think with Marti we can now draw a line under this and push on again and be a force in this division which we have not really been since relegation 9 years ago. |  | | |
| Ipswich on 13:14 - May 1 with 4827 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Ipswich on 10:34 - May 1 by ted_hendrix |
Blackpool, Wycombe, Wigan, Peterborough, Bolton to name but a few clubs who are still fiffing and faffing around In League One. Gawd knows how long Charlton have been down there and still are.
Relegation Is failure, It has no benefits. |
There *can* be benefits, as I just explained. I didn't say it was preferable, but if it happens, some clubs have turned it to their advantage. Others haven't! | |
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| Ipswich on 17:11 - May 1 with 4562 views | SheffieldHoop |
Luton were still rattling around in the Conference the last time we were promoted to the Premier League. 6-8000 fans Luton. 5 years floundering in a league genuinely difficult to get out of - Playing Hayes & Yeading (Who've just been relegated to level 8) - Surely there was no coming back from that? For a club of that size? From such footballing graveyards? There wasn't, was there?
Or Coventry. Starting seasons in Administration. Battling for survival in League 2. Playing in Northampton in front of 2000 fans. Dead & buried. Until they weren't - and now they batter big teams in FA Cup Semi-Finals to the point the authorities had to step in to save poor old Man Utd from a humiliation.
Several clubs needed relegation before they got anywhere close to the Prem again - Wolves, Leicester, Leeds, Forest, Sheff U, Southampton, Norwich....All have been in League 1 since the last time we were. All enjoyed better stints at the top level than us, as well (Apart maybe from Norwich). Ipswich, Sunderland, Coventry the current Championship Clubs carrying that forward momentum. Pompey & Derby next year. In a league where increasingly Parachute payments & FFP are deciding the final league table, I just don't think sitting in the same division treading water, forever being regarded by every pro footballer in the country as an "also ran" is a great vision for the future. |  |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Ipswich on 18:06 - May 1 with 4451 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Ipswich on 10:14 - May 1 by Antti_Heinola |
It's better not to go down, but it's much easier to rebuild and come back stronger in that league. It's been proven many times recently by the likes of Sheff U, Ipswich, Luton, Southampton, Sunderland (although they've gone backwards again now) etc. You can do less fire-fighting and more forward, long-term planning. Buy cheaper, with potential, and blood them in a more forgiving league. In this league, once you're in trouble, you're fire-fighting and you can get into a situation of constant short-term fixes which will, in many cases, merely prolong the inevitable. We're all happy now, but if Marti were to get a big offer and move this summer, not much will have changed and we'll be fighting relegation again next season, because that's the spiral we've been in.
We're a fanbase that constantly says this player and that player are not good enough, but we can't afford players who are 'good enough' (for the most part). What we have to do is get players before they become good enough and make them good enough. That's possible, others have done it, but it's easier to do that in League One in the manner Brentford and Luton did.
Still, much better to stay up! |
Weirdly contradictory post - your whole argument seems to be AGAINST the idea that it's better to stay up! |  |
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| Ipswich on 18:12 - May 1 with 4431 views | Juzzie |
| Ipswich on 17:11 - May 1 by SheffieldHoop |
Luton were still rattling around in the Conference the last time we were promoted to the Premier League. 6-8000 fans Luton. 5 years floundering in a league genuinely difficult to get out of - Playing Hayes & Yeading (Who've just been relegated to level 8) - Surely there was no coming back from that? For a club of that size? From such footballing graveyards? There wasn't, was there?
Or Coventry. Starting seasons in Administration. Battling for survival in League 2. Playing in Northampton in front of 2000 fans. Dead & buried. Until they weren't - and now they batter big teams in FA Cup Semi-Finals to the point the authorities had to step in to save poor old Man Utd from a humiliation.
Several clubs needed relegation before they got anywhere close to the Prem again - Wolves, Leicester, Leeds, Forest, Sheff U, Southampton, Norwich....All have been in League 1 since the last time we were. All enjoyed better stints at the top level than us, as well (Apart maybe from Norwich). Ipswich, Sunderland, Coventry the current Championship Clubs carrying that forward momentum. Pompey & Derby next year. In a league where increasingly Parachute payments & FFP are deciding the final league table, I just don't think sitting in the same division treading water, forever being regarded by every pro footballer in the country as an "also ran" is a great vision for the future. |
None of those 'needed' relegation. They got relegated 'cos they were shyte. Yes, it may have given them the platform to restructure, clear out players, start again but that was because it was necessary.
To actual want relegation to do any of that is bonkers, IMO, and there's no guarantee whatsoever it will work and you could be consigned down there for a long time.
[Post edited 1 May 21:53]
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| Ipswich on 18:58 - May 1 with 4320 views | TacticalR |
Sack Cifuentes and bring in a manager who knows how to get us relegated. |  |
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| Ipswich on 19:08 - May 1 with 4296 views | Lanhoop |
Ipswich's 'rebuild' in League one was largely on the back of a change in ownership with an american group coming in and wiping out their debt and investing in the infrastructure and people.
People willing to invest in lower league teams do exist but there's no army of them queueing up. For every success story there's several Dai Yongge's or Derek Chansiri's.
There's a lot more to getting out of L1 than hiring a good manager and playing your way up. | | | |
| Ipswich on 19:56 - May 1 with 4202 views | Hastings_Hoops |
Going back to the top of this thread… if Ipswich do join the prem parachute payment club, don’t forget that Swansea, QPR, stjoke and Watford have exhausted said premier league payments so it does wash through. [Post edited 1 May 23:02]
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| Ipswich on 15:40 - May 2 with 3676 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Ipswich on 18:12 - May 1 by Juzzie |
None of those 'needed' relegation. They got relegated 'cos they were shyte. Yes, it may have given them the platform to restructure, clear out players, start again but that was because it was necessary.
To actual want relegation to do any of that is bonkers, IMO, and there's no guarantee whatsoever it will work and you could be consigned down there for a long time.
[Post edited 1 May 21:53]
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Disagree. All these clubs got themselves into a terrible mess chasing promotion from the Championship. Sheff Utd paying James Beattie 40k a week and hiring Bryan Robson started the rot (Which lasted ages tbf, they were on their arse for about 8 years) - Then within 3 seasons they're finishing 11th in the Prem
Wolves had that whole Sylvan Ebanks-Blake/Andy Keogh/Seyi Olofinjana team under Mick Mccarthy that all went pear-shaped, had to go down and recalibrate, but then got promoted to the top quickly after that. Still there.
Southampton came down a bloated mess and it took another relegation to sort out, once they regained that reputation as a winning club, got successive promotions and another decade challenging for Europe. Back down now and if they piss away their parachute payments, might all happen again.
Norwich very similar. Bloated mess of a club around 2009. Relegated. One season in League 1 (including a 7-1 home defeat on opening day) and get successive promotions to the Prem.
Leicester spent years trying to get promoted with decent budgets under Holloway, Martin Allen et al. Didn't happen, was never going to happen, until they took a step back. Also had a big takeover.
Leeds needed their relegation more than most. Although probably the club that capitalized on it the least. But they were in a total mess. Also, if you speak to Leeds fans, those League 1 days with Beckford and Becchio, starting on -15, and winning everywhere was far more enjoyable than Prem with Bamford. Also had a big takeover
Forest is admittedly not the greatest example (Thought they'd been back down again when they haven't) - But they'll be back here soon and no doubt (If it turns out they've already spent their parachute payments) in need of another few years away from the limelight. Rejuvenation was also spearheaded by a mad takeover.
We're not being taken over any time soon. Debt too high, assets too small. Fulham and Brentford outperforming us. The QPR of today has lost its reputation as a place where you can win. Sure, it's still a football club in the Champ, not to be sniffed at, but any half-decent champ level players will choose most other championship clubs over QPR. This is partly due to the last decade of QPR failing to deliver anything other than wage cuts.....But also because we were such a shambles in the Premier league. The Pros of today remember those seasons and it's going to be another few years until that fully wears off. This is why I detest the players from the Prem days so much, because our predicament today is largely their fault, they set the standard at an abysmally low level, and we've now had almost a decade of QPR teams who think they are doing enough because they've managed to pick up a point or two before the October Intl break.
It's really, really important we post a couple of decent seasons in the near future, because the reputation we've got amongst professional footballers is a really bad one, and I'd say our best chance of doing that is going down and battering League 1 for a couple of seasons. After that? Who knows. I'm personally very confident we would not be another Yeovil. | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Ipswich on 15:59 - May 2 with 3631 views | TheChef |
Re the OP I'm not sure why it's 'inevitable' that they will get relegated straight away. |  |
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| Ipswich on 16:41 - May 2 with 3565 views | Northernr |
| Ipswich on 15:40 - May 2 by SheffieldHoop |
Disagree. All these clubs got themselves into a terrible mess chasing promotion from the Championship. Sheff Utd paying James Beattie 40k a week and hiring Bryan Robson started the rot (Which lasted ages tbf, they were on their arse for about 8 years) - Then within 3 seasons they're finishing 11th in the Prem
Wolves had that whole Sylvan Ebanks-Blake/Andy Keogh/Seyi Olofinjana team under Mick Mccarthy that all went pear-shaped, had to go down and recalibrate, but then got promoted to the top quickly after that. Still there.
Southampton came down a bloated mess and it took another relegation to sort out, once they regained that reputation as a winning club, got successive promotions and another decade challenging for Europe. Back down now and if they piss away their parachute payments, might all happen again.
Norwich very similar. Bloated mess of a club around 2009. Relegated. One season in League 1 (including a 7-1 home defeat on opening day) and get successive promotions to the Prem.
Leicester spent years trying to get promoted with decent budgets under Holloway, Martin Allen et al. Didn't happen, was never going to happen, until they took a step back. Also had a big takeover.
Leeds needed their relegation more than most. Although probably the club that capitalized on it the least. But they were in a total mess. Also, if you speak to Leeds fans, those League 1 days with Beckford and Becchio, starting on -15, and winning everywhere was far more enjoyable than Prem with Bamford. Also had a big takeover
Forest is admittedly not the greatest example (Thought they'd been back down again when they haven't) - But they'll be back here soon and no doubt (If it turns out they've already spent their parachute payments) in need of another few years away from the limelight. Rejuvenation was also spearheaded by a mad takeover.
We're not being taken over any time soon. Debt too high, assets too small. Fulham and Brentford outperforming us. The QPR of today has lost its reputation as a place where you can win. Sure, it's still a football club in the Champ, not to be sniffed at, but any half-decent champ level players will choose most other championship clubs over QPR. This is partly due to the last decade of QPR failing to deliver anything other than wage cuts.....But also because we were such a shambles in the Premier league. The Pros of today remember those seasons and it's going to be another few years until that fully wears off. This is why I detest the players from the Prem days so much, because our predicament today is largely their fault, they set the standard at an abysmally low level, and we've now had almost a decade of QPR teams who think they are doing enough because they've managed to pick up a point or two before the October Intl break.
It's really, really important we post a couple of decent seasons in the near future, because the reputation we've got amongst professional footballers is a really bad one, and I'd say our best chance of doing that is going down and battering League 1 for a couple of seasons. After that? Who knows. I'm personally very confident we would not be another Yeovil. |
And us the first time round of course. Both great fun trucking round the Second Division, but also a much needed reset and rebuild for the whole club and team. We came back utterly transformed, and it's a real shame instead of making the most of that we basically became Paladini's play thing.
I'm not convinced there are the brains and ability at the club to be able to do that again. I see us going more the way of Charlton if it were to happen. But the Cifuentes appointment could dissuade me of that. |  | | |
| Ipswich on 16:50 - May 2 with 3519 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Ipswich on 16:41 - May 2 by Northernr |
And us the first time round of course. Both great fun trucking round the Second Division, but also a much needed reset and rebuild for the whole club and team. We came back utterly transformed, and it's a real shame instead of making the most of that we basically became Paladini's play thing.
I'm not convinced there are the brains and ability at the club to be able to do that again. I see us going more the way of Charlton if it were to happen. But the Cifuentes appointment could dissuade me of that. |
Interesting debate.
Personally, I would usually worry that relegation to League One could be permanent oblivion, but the way our crowds have stood up at the first sign of some decent football has allayed that somewhat. Makes such a difference all round if a decent-sized home ground can be packed out to stop the oblivion train and some good football in League One would no doubt still lead to the numbers.
I do think that the years we were in League One have become ever more romanticised. I know new away days are / were fun, and a win is a win, but we weren't THAT great a side to watch, I personally didn't find the Ainsworth, Bircham blood sweat and tears approach that exhilarating....and we were in the footballing backwater. Great to get out of it, but I do remember it being a bit of a slog.
Maybe I was at a bad age for it, having started with Venables and enjoyed the 90s...which meant I was never likely to be bowing down to the Holloway / Bircham idolisation I guess. Totally understand that I am in the minority there. |  | | |
| Ipswich on 16:58 - May 2 with 3501 views | Northernr |
| Ipswich on 16:50 - May 2 by GaryBannister86 |
Interesting debate.
Personally, I would usually worry that relegation to League One could be permanent oblivion, but the way our crowds have stood up at the first sign of some decent football has allayed that somewhat. Makes such a difference all round if a decent-sized home ground can be packed out to stop the oblivion train and some good football in League One would no doubt still lead to the numbers.
I do think that the years we were in League One have become ever more romanticised. I know new away days are / were fun, and a win is a win, but we weren't THAT great a side to watch, I personally didn't find the Ainsworth, Bircham blood sweat and tears approach that exhilarating....and we were in the footballing backwater. Great to get out of it, but I do remember it being a bit of a slog.
Maybe I was at a bad age for it, having started with Venables and enjoyed the 90s...which meant I was never likely to be bowing down to the Holloway / Bircham idolisation I guess. Totally understand that I am in the minority there. |
And possibly I was just at a good age for it.
Moving away from home for the first time, going to games with mates etc.
I'd also found the 5 years between the Premier League and Second Division utterly soul destroying for so many reasons on and off the pitch - but primarily watching Karl Ready. | | | |
| Ipswich on 17:00 - May 2 with 3479 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Ipswich on 16:41 - May 2 by Northernr |
And us the first time round of course. Both great fun trucking round the Second Division, but also a much needed reset and rebuild for the whole club and team. We came back utterly transformed, and it's a real shame instead of making the most of that we basically became Paladini's play thing.
I'm not convinced there are the brains and ability at the club to be able to do that again. I see us going more the way of Charlton if it were to happen. But the Cifuentes appointment could dissuade me of that. |
Did we have the brains and ability last time? Think if you'd asked most people at the time, the answer would've been no.
Even Charlton (with their mad, seemingly never-ending ownership problem) will be back in the next 5 years. | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Ipswich on 17:10 - May 2 with 3454 views | Pdog |
Do you guys ever feel its just part of the club cycle, what will be will be, and there'll always be a another season, and another after that (as long as we don't do a Bury).
I remember at the deepest lows of that league 1 era battered at home to Cardiff after recently Vauxhall Motors, club was dead rangers were gone, finished.. ended the season in the playoff final, promoted next and we were in the prem within 8 yrs. |  | | |
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