| Railway Penalty Fare help 00:00 - Jul 3 with 6326 views | CamberleyR |
Looking for some advice here chaps.
Yesterday we received a letter from South Western Railways addressed to my stepson. It was a penalty fare notice about an alleged journey that took place four weeks ago.
It said that he didn't pay the penalty fare or appeal against it's issue and this letter was giving him fourteen days to settle the matter to pay £104.
Until yesterday this was the first we'd heard of it. I know for a fact that this is 100% bollocks and that somebody has used his name and address so basically has stolen his identity.
It says it took place at 09.40 Monday 5th June between Sherborne and Yeovil Junction. We live three miles from Sherborne and he doesn't drive.
Myself and Mrs Camberley would have been at work so there is no way he couldhave got to Sherborne station. We only moved to the area two years ago and my stepson doesn't know many people. He works part time in the village social club and the only people in our village that he really knows are the regulars from the club. I don't think any people there know his surname or his actual address so how this has happened is a mystery to us.
I have drafted an email to SW Railways prosecution departmant basically stating that unless they have got evidence like CCTV to show that it was him then the fine will not be paid and I will see them in court.
The letter gets very threatening saying he could be prosecuted and fined up to £1000 or use of debt collectors to recover the debt. My fear is that whoever this person is who has used his identity and thinks they have got away with it, will do it again.
Has any of the good LFW folk experienced something like this before? Any advice is most appreciated.
EDIT: I should add that Connor is a fellow R (thanks or no thanks to me!) [Post edited 3 Jul 2023 9:09]
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| Railway Penalty Fare help on 00:13 - Jul 3 with 5379 views | Boston |
Was he carrying cigarettes for a friend? |  |
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| Railway Penalty Fare help on 00:28 - Jul 3 with 5364 views | CroydonCaptJack |
There's lots of scams around at the moment. Is it possible it is one of those?
Does it give a number to ring as it might be a premium number for instance? |  | | |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 00:43 - Jul 3 with 5343 views | essextaxiboy |
Have you binned any packaging with his name and address on
Who employs him at the club, do they have his details ?
Ask what ID was produced as you intend to report it stolen to the police . And do so
Speaking as a Dad I would consider holding my nose and paying it as long as it’s genuine . Conviction carries a criminal record , which may bite him in the future . [Post edited 3 Jul 2023 1:21]
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| Railway Penalty Fare help on 06:11 - Jul 3 with 5187 views | cyprusmel |
If you could prove your stepson was somewhere else at 9.40am on the 5th June that would help.
I like your idea of CCTV as well. | | | |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 06:13 - Jul 3 with 5187 views | CamberleyR |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 00:43 - Jul 3 by essextaxiboy |
Have you binned any packaging with his name and address on
Who employs him at the club, do they have his details ?
Ask what ID was produced as you intend to report it stolen to the police . And do so
Speaking as a Dad I would consider holding my nose and paying it as long as it’s genuine . Conviction carries a criminal record , which may bite him in the future . [Post edited 3 Jul 2023 1:21]
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We're always very careful with taking the names and addresses off stuff that comes in the post so don't think it's that. Only the lady who's the social club manager would know his full name and address so this is completely baffling who has managed to get hold of his details. | |
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| Railway Penalty Fare help on 06:56 - Jul 3 with 5106 views | CamberleyR |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 06:11 - Jul 3 by cyprusmel |
If you could prove your stepson was somewhere else at 9.40am on the 5th June that would help.
I like your idea of CCTV as well. |
That's the thing mate, we can't prove he was at home when it was alleged to have happened but I know 100% for sure he was but as I say, how can SWR prove it was him?
The only time he really goes out are to work at the club and he also does the food shop with Mrs CR during the week but that's it really. | |
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| Railway Penalty Fare help on 07:07 - Jul 3 with 5082 views | 81A |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 06:13 - Jul 3 by CamberleyR |
We're always very careful with taking the names and addresses off stuff that comes in the post so don't think it's that. Only the lady who's the social club manager would know his full name and address so this is completely baffling who has managed to get hold of his details. |
Why would you "ask them for evidence like cctv to show that it was him" ? Either you believe him, or you don't.
Assuming you are, as you said, "100%" convinced that he was not there, just concentrate on providing the facts/evidence that show why this is the case. | | | |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 07:18 - Jul 3 with 5043 views | essextaxiboy |
How old is he mate? . Would he have been online or using his phone at the time . There may be some proof to be had that way . | | | |
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| Railway Penalty Fare help on 07:49 - Jul 3 with 4955 views | ozexile |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 00:13 - Jul 3 by Boston |
Was he carrying cigarettes for a friend? |
Ha Ha my stepson actually used that one a couple of years ago. And his clothes stunk if smoke cause obviously they all smoke and he doesnt. I'm in the kitchen laughing the missus believed it. [Post edited 3 Jul 2023 7:51]
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| Railway Penalty Fare help on 08:01 - Jul 3 with 4920 views | TGRRRSSS |
Citizens Advice would be a good place to start, also check with South Western it is actually them, don't ring the number on the letter.
Seems a bit of an odd one, I'd say demand CCTV of him at the station around the time and on the journey they allege he took (surely loads on trains right?
Definitely get some advice from CAB at the v first instance as Lawyers very expensive. |  | | |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 08:15 - Jul 3 with 4869 views | stevec |
Obviously only you know your stepsons take on this, is he happy to go to the police with you to report stolen identity?
If not, I’d pay the £104 and discreetly ingratiate myself in the social club. |  | | |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 08:22 - Jul 3 with 4846 views | TGRRRSSS |
What about his mobile phone coverage that day - alot of them can show where you were at any time.
Somebody I knew got falsely accused of being in Swindon (property dispute) and he went to the police gave them his mobile and they were able to prove he wasn't via that I believe.
Or anything else he did a purchase online for instance could maybe show being at home etc. | | | |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 08:37 - Jul 3 with 4794 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Can’t speak for the franchise TOCs, but LU always rescinded it based on discretion and reasonableness of story.
Evidence of his non attendance would help.
Also don’t rule out admin fck up. |  | | |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 08:56 - Jul 3 with 4712 views | eghamranger |
Body cam footage, cctv or the enforcement officer taking a picture of him.
These days you need more to prosecute someone than a name and address.
It’s also likely that the enforcement officer has written a description of the offender as |  | | |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 09:11 - Jul 3 with 4657 views | CamberleyR |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 07:18 - Jul 3 by essextaxiboy |
How old is he mate? . Would he have been online or using his phone at the time . There may be some proof to be had that way . |
He's 21 mate. He is a gamer but doubtful he'd have been online at that time of the day or using his phone. | |
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| Railway Penalty Fare help on 09:24 - Jul 3 with 4622 views | CamberleyR |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 08:22 - Jul 3 by TGRRRSSS |
What about his mobile phone coverage that day - alot of them can show where you were at any time.
Somebody I knew got falsely accused of being in Swindon (property dispute) and he went to the police gave them his mobile and they were able to prove he wasn't via that I believe.
Or anything else he did a purchase online for instance could maybe show being at home etc. |
Thanks mate, hadn't thought of mobile phone coverage. That would probably be the only way that we could prove he was at home when it took place. | |
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| Railway Penalty Fare help on 10:00 - Jul 3 with 4518 views | DTIG |
Playing devils advocate.....he could have walked the three miles and you only have his word for it that he was at home....unless as you say tech of some sort (phone traingulation) can prove it.
Surely the station has CCTV? |  | | |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 10:20 - Jul 3 with 4438 views | CamberleyR |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 10:00 - Jul 3 by DTIG |
Playing devils advocate.....he could have walked the three miles and you only have his word for it that he was at home....unless as you say tech of some sort (phone traingulation) can prove it.
Surely the station has CCTV? |
The journey was going to Yeovil Junction station which is not even in the town of Yeovil, it's the station a couple of miles outside the town centre and he'd have no reason to go there whatsoever, there is nothing there, it's in the middle of nowhere.
He is a 100% honest lad and I have got absolutely no reason to doubt him. Our six year old grandson lives with us (his nephew) and my wife usually leaves the house just before half past eight to drop him off at school before heading for work. To get to Sherborne station to get that train on foot takes 66 minutes (3.4 miles) according to Google maps so he would have had to leave the house whilst my wife was still there, so that is a non starter. | |
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| Railway Penalty Fare help on 10:41 - Jul 3 with 4358 views | EastR |
Not quite the same circumstances, but related.
A couple of months ago my stepdaughter had her ticket checked on a Chiltern services between St Pancras and Market Harborough.
She had a ticket and a valid railcard — 16-25. She’d booked it on the trainline website.
The inspector told her the railcard she’d selected for the ticket as the 16-17 one and issued her with a fine for the full ticket price plus the penalty fare £154.
The notice came with details of the appeals process etc. You get 3 attempts to have it overturned if you respond within the time allowed. Take that route and get as much info together as you can in the time allowed. Don’t worry about getting it all together for the first appeal you’ll have time to uncover more details.
Long story short in the final appeal they waived the penalty fare but not the cost of the ticket (bar stewards)
What I did find out in the process is that the train companies subcontract the whole collection process to private limited companies and take their cut on collections. This makes getting an appeal completely overturned even harder.
good luck! | |
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| Railway Penalty Fare help on 10:48 - Jul 3 with 4344 views | hubble |
It seems pretty straightforward to me, Cambers: what evidence do they have that it was your stepson? Did the person in question show them ID? Did they take a note of it (or even a photo)? Without evidence all they have is someone's word.
There's a thread on this here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6133897/court-proceddings-for-so
Worth reading the comments, one of them says this:
"I would defend this. The TOC should have cautioned the offender and obtained his photo ID to confirm identity. If the revenue enforcement officer (ticket inspector) is unable to produce witness evidence to confirm that step was taken and details of any interview notes, then it seems that this could indeed be a case of submitting a claim to just about anybody.
If they had none of that information, then that is their failure to take even basic steps to identify who they detained. If the revenue protection officer going to be present at court to give oral evidence (and be cross examined) that it was actually you that he detained? Did they record any interview or retain the train CCTV - this is all evidence that is in their control. The court should be invited to draw an adverse inference and to strike out the prosecution in the event of failure to provide it.
You need to introduce only doubt that it was you. There is no duty to show who it might have been or why." |  |
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| Railway Penalty Fare help on 10:55 - Jul 3 with 4323 views | DTIG |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 10:20 - Jul 3 by CamberleyR |
The journey was going to Yeovil Junction station which is not even in the town of Yeovil, it's the station a couple of miles outside the town centre and he'd have no reason to go there whatsoever, there is nothing there, it's in the middle of nowhere.
He is a 100% honest lad and I have got absolutely no reason to doubt him. Our six year old grandson lives with us (his nephew) and my wife usually leaves the house just before half past eight to drop him off at school before heading for work. To get to Sherborne station to get that train on foot takes 66 minutes (3.4 miles) according to Google maps so he would have had to leave the house whilst my wife was still there, so that is a non starter. |
Sad thing is, it's obviously someone you/he knows well, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to give your full address for the letter to come to.
Trouble is the onus might be on you guys to prove it wasn't him rather than the other way round
This might be useful:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/someone-used-my-details.125270/ | | | |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 13:02 - Jul 3 with 4102 views | Snipper |
If they have no actual proof it was your son via evidence from bodycam or cctv, I’d fight it all the way.
The letters are intended to be threatening so you pay up.
About 25 years ago, I told a mate that if you’re caught by a revenue inspector on the Underground, all they care about is getting a valid name and address, so to give a different name and address, and to say you have no ID.
About 4 weeks later, I received a penalty notice through the post citing time and place of the incident.
The stupid cúnt gave my name and address.
It wasn’t straightforward getting it cancelled either, even though I have a staff pass and I was at work driving a bloody train at the time. |  | | |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 13:46 - Jul 3 with 3979 views | CamberleyR |
Hi all. Thanks for all the advice.
I have just got off the phone to the Prosecutions dept at SWR and the lady I spoke to said that if I am denying that it was him and it was someone just giving his name and address, I just had to put something in writing in an email to them to this effect and it wouldn't be taken any further as Bazza suggested might happen. To ensure it not happening again a flag would be put in the system and if this person used Connor's name and address again it would alert that this was a false name/address.
Once again, thanks all  | |
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| Railway Penalty Fare help on 14:11 - Jul 3 with 3894 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 13:46 - Jul 3 by CamberleyR |
Hi all. Thanks for all the advice.
I have just got off the phone to the Prosecutions dept at SWR and the lady I spoke to said that if I am denying that it was him and it was someone just giving his name and address, I just had to put something in writing in an email to them to this effect and it wouldn't be taken any further as Bazza suggested might happen. To ensure it not happening again a flag would be put in the system and if this person used Connor's name and address again it would alert that this was a false name/address.
Once again, thanks all |
That's sounds promising. Obviously go ahead and put it in writing however I would still request a copy of their evidence, just in case she doesn't keep her word. If there is video or photographic evidence, Connor may be able to identify the moron who handed over his personal details to inspectors. |  | | |
| Railway Penalty Fare help on 14:32 - Jul 4 with 3405 views | themodfather |
ask for any BODY WORN CAMERA evidence as well as cctv to prove it is not him, most revenue staff wear them across the network in case there are assaults.
if you are convinced it is identity theft speak to a brief or police asap too. | | | |
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