| Russia invade Ukraine 14:17 - Dec 23 with 175749 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
Discuss.
Also why is Putin always described in the media as this rugged strongman? He’s barely five foot tall with his high heels on.
But that’s another debate.
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 16:10 - Dec 29 with 2109 views | trampie |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 16:00 - Dec 29 by Catullus |
Umm, the vote was massively skewed towards Russia. Here you go Tramps and please note that the Crimea was transferred to Ukraine by Russia,
https://www.history.com/news/crimea-russia-ukraine-annexation
Flynn, loving your work but lets face it, the USA and Russia aren't going to be sending troops to the Bering Strait. Putin doesn't want the frozen tundra (unless there's oil and gas there I guess) but he wants NATO kept away from his European borders, much easier to attack Russia from there. These people tend to be a bit paranoid like that. |
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum
Wiki's take on referendum and the result of the vote. |  |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 16:47 - Dec 29 with 2090 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 16:00 - Dec 29 by Catullus |
Umm, the vote was massively skewed towards Russia. Here you go Tramps and please note that the Crimea was transferred to Ukraine by Russia,
https://www.history.com/news/crimea-russia-ukraine-annexation
Flynn, loving your work but lets face it, the USA and Russia aren't going to be sending troops to the Bering Strait. Putin doesn't want the frozen tundra (unless there's oil and gas there I guess) but he wants NATO kept away from his European borders, much easier to attack Russia from there. These people tend to be a bit paranoid like that. |
Of course they’re not but it doesn’t come anymore on your doorstep than being within swimming distance. In a hypothetical invasion it would make sense to cripple eastern Russia first, novosbirik (can’t spell it) is a huge industrial and commercial centre and is the hub for the trans Siberian railway. Knock that out nice and quick and suddenly the supply running into Moscow will be squeezed.
Also aren’t there a few eastern bloc countries in nato? Doesn’t Estonia border russia? Latvia? They are only a short drive from St.Petersburg and not that far from Moscow. If putin is concerned about nato countries on his border he should be looking further north than Ukraine. | | | |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 14:19 - Dec 30 with 2024 views | Catullus |
Yes, a complete sham overseen by Russia's military,
The referendum is not internationally recognized by most countries[11] mainly due to the presence of Russian forces.[12] Thirteen members of the United Nations Security Council voted in favor of a resolution declaring the referendum invalid, but Russia vetoed it and China abstained.[13][14] A United Nations General Assembly resolution was later adopted, by a vote of 100 in favor vs. 11 against with 58 abstentions, which declared the referendum invalid and affirmed Ukraine's territorial integrity.[12] As the plebiscite was proclaimed, the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People had called for a boycott of the referendum.[15][16] The Mejlis Deputy Chairman, Akhtem Chiygoz, felt that the actual turnout could not have exceeded 30—40 percent, arguing that to be the normal turnout for votes in the region.[17] | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 16:41 - Dec 30 with 2006 views | trampie |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 14:19 - Dec 30 by Catullus |
Yes, a complete sham overseen by Russia's military,
The referendum is not internationally recognized by most countries[11] mainly due to the presence of Russian forces.[12] Thirteen members of the United Nations Security Council voted in favor of a resolution declaring the referendum invalid, but Russia vetoed it and China abstained.[13][14] A United Nations General Assembly resolution was later adopted, by a vote of 100 in favor vs. 11 against with 58 abstentions, which declared the referendum invalid and affirmed Ukraine's territorial integrity.[12] As the plebiscite was proclaimed, the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People had called for a boycott of the referendum.[15][16] The Mejlis Deputy Chairman, Akhtem Chiygoz, felt that the actual turnout could not have exceeded 30—40 percent, arguing that to be the normal turnout for votes in the region.[17] |
The majority voting to be part of Russia on the peninsula would not be a complete sham per se, the UN could conduct a vote and it would still be a Russian majority. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 20:34 - Dec 30 with 1987 views | Catullus |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 16:41 - Dec 30 by trampie |
The majority voting to be part of Russia on the peninsula would not be a complete sham per se, the UN could conduct a vote and it would still be a Russian majority. |
Did you read your own link? A 97% turnout, way above the usual turnout with only 10 days notice and Russian troops overseeing the whole thing.....it was sham but obviously a pro Russian person would not see that.
You mentioned the Tatars, even their leader said it was sham. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 20:42 - Dec 30 with 1973 views | trampie |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 20:34 - Dec 30 by Catullus |
Did you read your own link? A 97% turnout, way above the usual turnout with only 10 days notice and Russian troops overseeing the whole thing.....it was sham but obviously a pro Russian person would not see that.
You mentioned the Tatars, even their leader said it was sham. |
The point is if there was a recognised bona fide vote due to the current demographics to become part of Russia would no doubt win. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 20:44 - Dec 30 with 1971 views | Catullus |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 20:42 - Dec 30 by trampie |
The point is if there was a recognised bona fide vote due to the current demographics to become part of Russia would no doubt win. |
How can you say that? If that were the case why would they have a vote at such short notice that's overseen by the military?
You are blinkered where Russia is concerned. Putin would love you. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 21:02 - Dec 30 with 1961 views | trampie |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 20:44 - Dec 30 by Catullus |
How can you say that? If that were the case why would they have a vote at such short notice that's overseen by the military?
You are blinkered where Russia is concerned. Putin would love you. |
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea
Because something like 2/3rds are ethnic Russians and over 80% speak Russian. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 06:42 - Dec 31 with 1928 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 20:42 - Dec 30 by trampie |
The point is if there was a recognised bona fide vote due to the current demographics to become part of Russia would no doubt win. |
Recognised bona fide votes are difficult to come by in an area under military occupation. | | | |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 14:35 - Dec 31 with 1894 views | Catullus |
You cannot be certain how they would vote. If you could be that certain based on ethnicity then Wales would be massively in favour of independence. maybe those Russians stayed in the Crimea/Ukraine for a very good reason? Maybe they don't like the way Russia is?
Having a large ethnic population still doesn't give a country the right to take land by military force though. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 14:42 - Dec 31 with 1890 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 14:35 - Dec 31 by Catullus |
You cannot be certain how they would vote. If you could be that certain based on ethnicity then Wales would be massively in favour of independence. maybe those Russians stayed in the Crimea/Ukraine for a very good reason? Maybe they don't like the way Russia is?
Having a large ethnic population still doesn't give a country the right to take land by military force though. |
Yep also a big part of the reason they have a large Russian population is because they killed or deported all the natives and moved Russians in there. I would have thought this was behaviour the Welsh nationalists would thoroughly disagree with, but then the hard left these days are always enthusiastically cheering for any country that is against Britain or ‘the west’. | | | |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 15:30 - Dec 31 with 1867 views | Catullus |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 14:42 - Dec 31 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
Yep also a big part of the reason they have a large Russian population is because they killed or deported all the natives and moved Russians in there. I would have thought this was behaviour the Welsh nationalists would thoroughly disagree with, but then the hard left these days are always enthusiastically cheering for any country that is against Britain or ‘the west’. |
Yes, the deported, including the very same Tatars that Trampie mentioned earlier on.
https://fpc.org.uk/crimea-deportations-forced-transfer-civil-population/
Not just Tatars, there's Muslims, political opponents and anybody deemed 'disloyal' to Mother Russia. It all makes the '97%' vote even more of a sham. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 10:31 - Jan 2 with 1783 views | trampie |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 14:42 - Dec 31 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
Yep also a big part of the reason they have a large Russian population is because they killed or deported all the natives and moved Russians in there. I would have thought this was behaviour the Welsh nationalists would thoroughly disagree with, but then the hard left these days are always enthusiastically cheering for any country that is against Britain or ‘the west’. |
On the contrary, how can unionists not recognise right of conquest like they do back home.
Russia is doing no more than what Britain has done. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 10:44 - Jan 2 with 1778 views | trampie |
You are missing the point, if there was a bona fide vote, Russia would win because most of the electorate would be ethnic Russians.
People have been displaced the World over, immigrants have flooded areas the World over, the demographics at the time of the vote are the demographics at that time.
If there had been a vote in fairly recent history and home rule was on the table I reckon that the Tatars would have had their own state, should Crimea have been given to the Ukraine by the Russians ?, should Ukraine have given it to the Tatars and offered right of return ?, as it is now the Russians are the vast majority and will vote to be part of mother Russia, a little bit like Loyalists in Northern Ireland wanting to be ruled by Britain (although falsely created boundaries to give a majority were drawn up) but going forward due to the birth rate it might result in any future vote being in favour of being ruled from Dublin. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 11:12 - Jan 2 with 1764 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 10:31 - Jan 2 by trampie |
On the contrary, how can unionists not recognise right of conquest like they do back home.
Russia is doing no more than what Britain has done. |
My point exactly. They are doing everything you hate the English doing, yet for some bizarre reason you support them but hate the English. It’s almost as if you’re a complete hypocrite. | | | |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 11:19 - Jan 2 with 1759 views | trampie |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 11:12 - Jan 2 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
My point exactly. They are doing everything you hate the English doing, yet for some bizarre reason you support them but hate the English. It’s almost as if you’re a complete hypocrite. |
I don't hate the English at all they have many great qualities and I don't support the Russians, I think the Tatar people should have the Crimea and not the Russians or Ukrainians. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 12:37 - Jan 2 with 1735 views | Catullus |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 11:19 - Jan 2 by trampie |
I don't hate the English at all they have many great qualities and I don't support the Russians, I think the Tatar people should have the Crimea and not the Russians or Ukrainians. |
Judging by all your posts, that is complete *.............* and I'm sure almost everyone who reads this can predict what word I'd put in there! | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 13:39 - Jan 2 with 1725 views | trampie |
Some people are very easily offended, for example they often mistake criticism for dislike, there are lots of snowflakes about these days . | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 19:02 - Jan 2 with 1699 views | Catullus |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 13:39 - Jan 2 by trampie |
Some people are very easily offended, for example they often mistake criticism for dislike, there are lots of snowflakes about these days . |
Ah, so your constant criticism of all things English isn't dislike? Like your support of what Russia has done isn't support. Yeah pull the other one.
PS, I'm not offended by what you say, I find it ridiculous and laughable but it's not offensive to me, I'm not English or Crimean/Ukrainian Tatar you see.
PPS, what was done in this country 600 years ago was wrong but this is the modern world, we have different standards, different laws, if Wales was an indy country today and England invaded there would be hell to pay. Comparing what Russia is doing today with what happened 600 years ago is barmy. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 19:27 - Jan 2 with 1691 views | trampie |
I'm not comparing to 600 years ago. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 21:46 - Jan 2 with 1677 views | Catullus |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 19:27 - Jan 2 by trampie |
I'm not comparing to 600 years ago. |
Well indy is often a hot topic for you but Ok, my mistake. You must be talking about Empire then, something Russia knows al about too.
The big difference there is, the UK is no longer trying to take other countries by force or displacing indigenous populations to further their political desires.
Russia is in the wrong here and nothing you say will change that, nothing you can say can justify Russia's actions. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 22:14 - Jan 2 with 1667 views | trampie |
Indy is a topic of interest but not a hot topic, I don't think Crimea is an empire thing per se for Russia and I don't think Russia is 100% in the right or come to that 100% in the wrong as regards Crimea it's more nuanced than being totally right or totally wrong at this point in time what with the majority being ethnic Russians in the Crimea and NATOs direction of travel will be seen as a threat by Russia, the West has them surrounded by missiles on their doorstep and from a Russian point of view the only country to ever use atomic bombs (on civilians as well it has to be said) was the USA, Russia is fearful of what American and the West could do if they the West has half a chance. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 12:58 - Jan 3 with 1605 views | Catullus |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 22:14 - Jan 2 by trampie |
Indy is a topic of interest but not a hot topic, I don't think Crimea is an empire thing per se for Russia and I don't think Russia is 100% in the right or come to that 100% in the wrong as regards Crimea it's more nuanced than being totally right or totally wrong at this point in time what with the majority being ethnic Russians in the Crimea and NATOs direction of travel will be seen as a threat by Russia, the West has them surrounded by missiles on their doorstep and from a Russian point of view the only country to ever use atomic bombs (on civilians as well it has to be said) was the USA, Russia is fearful of what American and the West could do if they the West has half a chance. |
So it's not 100% wrong to invade an independent sovereign state and annex part of it? Even if that stae has done nothing wrong to you?
Well given that pretty soon there may be more English born than Welsh in Wales, that's indy of the table then. It also opens the door for many other countries to invade neighbouring countries where they have ethnic communities.
When you say NATO's direction of travel, you mean NATO's response to Putin's aggression of course. The missiles the West has on Russia's doorstep are there because Russia has its's own missiles pointed at the West. As you have pointed out, Russia has been developing missiles that (in your opinion) the USA has no answer for but I don't suppose that's an aggressive move, in your opinion.
The West is also fearful of what Russia will do, it's why NATO exists. | |
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 14:02 - Jan 3 with 1579 views | trampie |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 12:58 - Jan 3 by Catullus |
So it's not 100% wrong to invade an independent sovereign state and annex part of it? Even if that stae has done nothing wrong to you?
Well given that pretty soon there may be more English born than Welsh in Wales, that's indy of the table then. It also opens the door for many other countries to invade neighbouring countries where they have ethnic communities.
When you say NATO's direction of travel, you mean NATO's response to Putin's aggression of course. The missiles the West has on Russia's doorstep are there because Russia has its's own missiles pointed at the West. As you have pointed out, Russia has been developing missiles that (in your opinion) the USA has no answer for but I don't suppose that's an aggressive move, in your opinion.
The West is also fearful of what Russia will do, it's why NATO exists. |
Separatists played up and Russia went to help them is one of the oldest tricks in the book, American tried it in Cuba, hold a bridgehead for 3 days and the full might of the US military will pile in except they were beaten straight away by Cuba.
Yes that is Indy off the table, unless the immigrants can be persuaded to vote for the home team since Westminster is so bad, yes it's an old trick to come to the aid of ethnic communities, the Sudetenland land springs to mind.
Its Russia's ability to stop incoming missiles that gives them an edge in that area, they think the West in the form of American and Britain are dangerous warmongers and would not hesitate to attack if they thought it was a no risk win, they think the West is deranged and dangerous, Putin's regime was said to have manipulated the Presidential election to give Trump victory over Hilary as they thought Trump was weak and they could play him, Hilary they were scared of, they made themselves safer by getting Trump voted in was the line of thought. [Post edited 3 Jan 2022 14:06]
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| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 14:55 - Jan 3 with 1557 views | Catullus |
| Will Russia invade Ukraine? on 14:02 - Jan 3 by trampie |
Separatists played up and Russia went to help them is one of the oldest tricks in the book, American tried it in Cuba, hold a bridgehead for 3 days and the full might of the US military will pile in except they were beaten straight away by Cuba.
Yes that is Indy off the table, unless the immigrants can be persuaded to vote for the home team since Westminster is so bad, yes it's an old trick to come to the aid of ethnic communities, the Sudetenland land springs to mind.
Its Russia's ability to stop incoming missiles that gives them an edge in that area, they think the West in the form of American and Britain are dangerous warmongers and would not hesitate to attack if they thought it was a no risk win, they think the West is deranged and dangerous, Putin's regime was said to have manipulated the Presidential election to give Trump victory over Hilary as they thought Trump was weak and they could play him, Hilary they were scared of, they made themselves safer by getting Trump voted in was the line of thought. [Post edited 3 Jan 2022 14:06]
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Do you think . if Russia had hypersonic missiles that couldn't be stopped/intercepted, that they would only use them for defence?
The CIA tried to take down Castro and failed, it was wrong, as wrong as what Russia is doing.
Putin doesn't think the West are warmongering, he's not scared of us. He is warmongering in the hope of making gains, political and territorial.
There was no proof that the USA election was interfered with, not to the extent that it became unfair. They have found no evidence of mass interference or fraud. Do you really think if there was enough suspicion that Trump was a Russian stooge that the people would have stood for it? If there was any evidence would Congress have allowed it? | |
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