| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:16 - Feb 27 with 2131 views | 442Dale |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:06 - Feb 27 by James1980 |
I know we aren't a club that constantly change managers, if we sack BBM I'm concerned that could be the start of the club installing a revolving door in the managers office. |
Eyre and Coleman went within 13 months of each other. We didn’t get that reputation then. Plus it’s not about what football thinks about us as a club, it’s what the supporters think about their club. Again, that doesn’t strictly refer to whether a manager stays or goes. It’s about appreciating how people are feeling. |  |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:17 - Feb 27 with 2127 views | dingdangblue |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 20:53 - Feb 27 by James1980 |
I bet people were saying we are going to get relegated if we don't sack Hill during the 17/18 season. We don't know what is going to happen. We might have a fully fit squad for the last 10 games of the season. Whilst other teams in the bottom 7 could have their own injury crisis.
Realistically what needs to happen for the calls for BBM to be sacked to stop? |
17/18 - although we were bottom for ages we had around 5 or 6 games in hand (and I think we ended up winning at least 3 or 4 of them) we had the FA Cup Spurs games and a trip to Wembley to get the club buzzing. We were actually playing some decent football and had a plan of playing. This last week looks like we have no plan of playing and the players have given up on the manager - more like when we actually replaced Hill eventually with BBM. [Post edited 27 Feb 2021 21:18]
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:17 - Feb 27 with 2124 views | DaleFan7 |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 20:59 - Feb 27 by 49thseason |
we have landed in the eye of the perfect storm, the squad is inadequate, the manager naïve, The board seems to be in turmoil, the CEO does not seem to have a plan that respects the whole purpose of the club... to win football matches.
Relegation is now nailed on. most of the current squad will leave in the summer, It is unlikely we will have funds to improve and once again will be stuck with kids, loanees and the injury-prone. And i guarantee, no left back.
There is no obvious way to redeem the situation now, the window has been and gone, the manager will not be sacked. and we will start next season back in our comfort zone of L2.
But there will need to be changes, a huge clear out must be on the cards, players and backroom staff alike. We can survive without a fitness this and video marketing that but we NEED a goal scorer and a goal keeper and a left back, a right back and 2 new centre halves and .. and ... and...AND THEREIN IS THE CHALLENGE TO THE BOARD, The kids will need to fight their way into the team not be forced to play when they are patently not ready. This season has been a fiasco. We mustn't blame the Covids, , we haven't measured up to the rest of the League, we have 1 home victory so far. We are not even bothering opposition goalkeepers with shots anymore.
Plucky Rochdale has run out of pluck.
21//22 SQUAD contracted: Morley, Rathbone, Grant, Shaughnessy, Newby, Humphrys, Beesley, Odoh.
Out of contract: O’Connell, McShane, McLaughlin, Done, Lund, Dooley, McNulty, Ryan, Keohane, Lynch , would we want to keep any of these? Possibly Lund and O'Connell?
Is it worth keeping Wade, Chalton, Dunne, Mialkowski , Thomas, Brierley or Bradley?
And then there is the Baah question.........? |
The board need to answer the question how they've let it get to the point were 80% of the squad can leave, all for nothing, all at the same time at the end of the season. If that happens and we do drop in to league two we're in massive trouble next season.
We know our budget isn't massive. Half the teams in league two is probably bigger. There will be teams in the National League with bigger, too. |  | | |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:23 - Feb 27 with 2063 views | D_Alien |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:17 - Feb 27 by DaleFan7 |
The board need to answer the question how they've let it get to the point were 80% of the squad can leave, all for nothing, all at the same time at the end of the season. If that happens and we do drop in to league two we're in massive trouble next season.
We know our budget isn't massive. Half the teams in league two is probably bigger. There will be teams in the National League with bigger, too. |
Tbh, i wouldn't worry too much about major squad changes. If we have a new manager on board he's bound to have his own ideas and want to introduce players who're able to play the way he wants them to, so in many respects it can be an advantage rather than being stuck with disillusioned and/or past-it players
I know it was a different era, but when Bob Stokoe took over he completely revamped the squad and the entire starting XI apart from a couple of forwards was introduced for the 68/69 promotion campaign
[Post edited 27 Feb 2021 21:24]
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:23 - Feb 27 with 2061 views | 442Dale |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:13 - Feb 27 by D_Alien |
Agree with that, but by "revolutionary business model" are you referring to the data analytics business or the 'philosophy' with a view to selling on youngsters (rather than just trying to play to our strengths while selling on youngsters)? |
The whole shebang. If using some software helps the manager to identify players that will help us get results, great, use it. If it helps us get a few more players in who we might not normally have been aware of, again it should be utilised. Anything that can add to positive performances on the pitch. But there’s something in the air where all of a sudden we have a new “philosophy” which means that getting those players in and developing them and making money is something spectacular and “revolutionary”. It’s basic, it’s what we’ve done for over a decade on and off the pitch. It doesn’t mean you write long spectacular statements justifying the very existence of your choices and philosophies whilst results, on and off the pitch, clearly tell the real story.
In short, they think we’re stupid and can be impressed. That doesn’t work at Dale. | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:24 - Feb 27 with 2048 views | JimmyRustler |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 19:24 - Feb 27 by 442Dale |
Good management kept us up in 18/19. As manager, BBM put together a solid side that got results. 11 games, 6 wins and 20 points. So once more, let’s not rewrite history to suit an argument. There were very few fans who didn’t have the utmost of praise for the job he did and there was a lot of support for him as manager.
Wouldn’t give Henderson any sort of special credit for knowing what was going on. Quite rightly, he did the right thing for his own career. It was nothing more than that. |
Sorry but I disagree with this. From my recollection (and I’m happy to be corrected), most fans were of the opinion that it was more luck than judgement that kept us up that season. I also believe that a clean slate, free of the toxic atmosphere that KH had created simply galvanised the players.
BBM obviously had some role to play in this as he managed to actually play players in their respective positions (something he seems to have recently abandoned for a square peg round hole strategy akin to that of his predecessor).
You spoke about not rewriting history but I think that putting our survival down to good management somewhat does that. Don’t get me wrong, I do think that many were open to giving BBM a chance but I think that would have been the case whether we went down or not. The fact that he did appeared to correlate with underperforming players finding their mojo again with a fresh start away from a guy who had seemingly starting acting more like a nob than usual.
All IMHO ofc [Post edited 27 Feb 2021 21:27]
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:24 - Feb 27 with 2047 views | onedalefan |
Think Humphrys coming out in the second half with his socks rolled down said 'I'm not bothering anymore'. |  | | |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:29 - Feb 27 with 2010 views | 442Dale |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:24 - Feb 27 by JimmyRustler |
Sorry but I disagree with this. From my recollection (and I’m happy to be corrected), most fans were of the opinion that it was more luck than judgement that kept us up that season. I also believe that a clean slate, free of the toxic atmosphere that KH had created simply galvanised the players.
BBM obviously had some role to play in this as he managed to actually play players in their respective positions (something he seems to have recently abandoned for a square peg round hole strategy akin to that of his predecessor).
You spoke about not rewriting history but I think that putting our survival down to good management somewhat does that. Don’t get me wrong, I do think that many were open to giving BBM a chance but I think that would have been the case whether we went down or not. The fact that he did appeared to correlate with underperforming players finding their mojo again with a fresh start away from a guy who had seemingly starting acting more like a nob than usual.
All IMHO ofc [Post edited 27 Feb 2021 21:27]
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We ended up staying up pretty comfortably in the end though. Mainly because BBM got the players playing in a simple, structured way and got results. And averaging around 2 points a game was pretty impressive.
It’s a good shout on the atmosphere though and that was a massive factor. That’s sort of why it was good management to identify that, sort it, and get back to basics and get results. Which makes the current situation even more frustrating to endure. | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:30 - Feb 27 with 2005 views | James1980 |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 20:57 - Feb 27 by RotherhamDale |
Do you think he should stay or go?
Genuinely interested.
Think I've seen 1 opinion on here so far that he should stay. Everybody else on every platform is BBM out [Post edited 27 Feb 2021 20:58]
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As I'm not allowed an opinion I'm going to take up the contrary position. We weren't given a moggy in hades chance of staying up. We are in the position everyone was expecting us to be, some could argue slightly better. We have suffered with injuries and the squad isn't deep enough to cope with the number of players we have lost. It seems there is an opinion that there is uncertainty in the boardroom. I'm not sure adding to the uncertainty by changing the manager is going to improve matters. | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:30 - Feb 27 with 2004 views | 442Dale |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:24 - Feb 27 by onedalefan |
Think Humphrys coming out in the second half with his socks rolled down said 'I'm not bothering anymore'. |
He’s done that on and off his whole career.
I know my socks. | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:31 - Feb 27 with 1982 views | D_Alien |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:23 - Feb 27 by 442Dale |
The whole shebang. If using some software helps the manager to identify players that will help us get results, great, use it. If it helps us get a few more players in who we might not normally have been aware of, again it should be utilised. Anything that can add to positive performances on the pitch. But there’s something in the air where all of a sudden we have a new “philosophy” which means that getting those players in and developing them and making money is something spectacular and “revolutionary”. It’s basic, it’s what we’ve done for over a decade on and off the pitch. It doesn’t mean you write long spectacular statements justifying the very existence of your choices and philosophies whilst results, on and off the pitch, clearly tell the real story.
In short, they think we’re stupid and can be impressed. That doesn’t work at Dale. |
Thanks, that what i thought you meant, and as said, i agree
The data analytics side is with us and there are vested interests in it working, so i'm not too unhappy with that. I'm hoping the US influx will be able to take a cold, hard look at how the club is run and won't be taken in by a 'philosophy'. Results, results, results and if we're developing young talent what counts for me is the degree of professionalism that's needed to bring them on at the right time
What's lacking for me - and i hate to say this - is a degree of professionalism in recognising where things aren't working and striving to put them right, if you have the ability to do so | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:32 - Feb 27 with 1974 views | 442Dale |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:30 - Feb 27 by James1980 |
As I'm not allowed an opinion I'm going to take up the contrary position. We weren't given a moggy in hades chance of staying up. We are in the position everyone was expecting us to be, some could argue slightly better. We have suffered with injuries and the squad isn't deep enough to cope with the number of players we have lost. It seems there is an opinion that there is uncertainty in the boardroom. I'm not sure adding to the uncertainty by changing the manager is going to improve matters. |
Of course you’re allowed an opinion and you’ve added a lot of thought provoking points to the debate. The one about injuries is valid, with the contrasting view being that we should still be utilising the players we have had available much better. | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:34 - Feb 27 with 1960 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:06 - Feb 27 by James1980 |
I know we aren't a club that constantly change managers, if we sack BBM I'm concerned that could be the start of the club installing a revolving door in the managers office. |
Why, though? It's not something we've done in my 38 years of watching, most of which were spent in Div 4, so why would we suddenly start now?
As 442 says, if you sift out all the angry reactionary stuff and unfunny quips that come from some people getting more pleasure out of this than us doing well, you will find an incredibly patient, understanding fanbase who are significantly removed from the picture you're trying to paint. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:37 - Feb 27 with 1927 views | 442Dale |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:31 - Feb 27 by D_Alien |
Thanks, that what i thought you meant, and as said, i agree
The data analytics side is with us and there are vested interests in it working, so i'm not too unhappy with that. I'm hoping the US influx will be able to take a cold, hard look at how the club is run and won't be taken in by a 'philosophy'. Results, results, results and if we're developing young talent what counts for me is the degree of professionalism that's needed to bring them on at the right time
What's lacking for me - and i hate to say this - is a degree of professionalism in recognising where things aren't working and striving to put them right, if you have the ability to do so |
Probably do this a bit too much, but look up the road to Holt at Accrington. He’s obviously a successful businessman who has constantly evolved (he will often tweet about new machinery at his company etc), but he’s retained the same, urgh, philosophy. Something borne out in how Stanley have evolved as a club since he took over there. They have a great little ground now (once they sort that away end!), much more focus on the supporter experience and yet have retained everything that makes them Accrington on and off the pitch.
Why try and be something you’re not whilst moving forward? | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:39 - Feb 27 with 1905 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:17 - Feb 27 by dingdangblue |
17/18 - although we were bottom for ages we had around 5 or 6 games in hand (and I think we ended up winning at least 3 or 4 of them) we had the FA Cup Spurs games and a trip to Wembley to get the club buzzing. We were actually playing some decent football and had a plan of playing. This last week looks like we have no plan of playing and the players have given up on the manager - more like when we actually replaced Hill eventually with BBM. [Post edited 27 Feb 2021 21:18]
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The only game in hand we won was the 3-0 victory at Walsall. All our other victories came at the same time everyone else was playing.
We did, however, draw quite a few of the games in hand, which just about got us over the line. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:42 - Feb 27 with 1876 views | dingdangblue |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:24 - Feb 27 by JimmyRustler |
Sorry but I disagree with this. From my recollection (and I’m happy to be corrected), most fans were of the opinion that it was more luck than judgement that kept us up that season. I also believe that a clean slate, free of the toxic atmosphere that KH had created simply galvanised the players.
BBM obviously had some role to play in this as he managed to actually play players in their respective positions (something he seems to have recently abandoned for a square peg round hole strategy akin to that of his predecessor).
You spoke about not rewriting history but I think that putting our survival down to good management somewhat does that. Don’t get me wrong, I do think that many were open to giving BBM a chance but I think that would have been the case whether we went down or not. The fact that he did appeared to correlate with underperforming players finding their mojo again with a fresh start away from a guy who had seemingly starting acting more like a nob than usual.
All IMHO ofc [Post edited 27 Feb 2021 21:27]
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I'm sorry but how was BBM keeping us up in 18/19 lucky?
When he took over the change was almost immediate.
His results in the run in and performances were very solid.
2-1 home win v Shrews.
0-0 home draw v Oxford.
3-1 home win v Scunthorpe.
1-1 away draw v Gills.
1-0 away win v Accrington.
1-0 home win v Wycombe.
1-0 away win v Bristol Rovers.
1-0 home win v Southend. | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:44 - Feb 27 with 1854 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:30 - Feb 27 by James1980 |
As I'm not allowed an opinion I'm going to take up the contrary position. We weren't given a moggy in hades chance of staying up. We are in the position everyone was expecting us to be, some could argue slightly better. We have suffered with injuries and the squad isn't deep enough to cope with the number of players we have lost. It seems there is an opinion that there is uncertainty in the boardroom. I'm not sure adding to the uncertainty by changing the manager is going to improve matters. |
James, can you please point out where ANYONE has said you are not allowed an opinion? It sounds a bit too much like Kevin The Teenager to me.
I've said this before, disagreeing with or arguing against an opinion is not the same as saying you can't have one. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:50 - Feb 27 with 1819 views | Salegraham |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:37 - Feb 27 by 442Dale |
Probably do this a bit too much, but look up the road to Holt at Accrington. He’s obviously a successful businessman who has constantly evolved (he will often tweet about new machinery at his company etc), but he’s retained the same, urgh, philosophy. Something borne out in how Stanley have evolved as a club since he took over there. They have a great little ground now (once they sort that away end!), much more focus on the supporter experience and yet have retained everything that makes them Accrington on and off the pitch.
Why try and be something you’re not whilst moving forward? |
Plus he's put his money where is mouth is (Holt that is) unlike our directors | | | |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 22:08 - Feb 27 with 1730 views | James1980 |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:44 - Feb 27 by TVOS1907 |
James, can you please point out where ANYONE has said you are not allowed an opinion? It sounds a bit too much like Kevin The Teenager to me.
I've said this before, disagreeing with or arguing against an opinion is not the same as saying you can't have one. |
Fair enough but I feel it's implied. I'm not allowed to think. I dared to try and make a rallying call to supporters which got shot down because I'm not from round these parts and haven't been attending games for long enough. | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 22:14 - Feb 27 with 1702 views | D_Alien |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 22:08 - Feb 27 by James1980 |
Fair enough but I feel it's implied. I'm not allowed to think. I dared to try and make a rallying call to supporters which got shot down because I'm not from round these parts and haven't been attending games for long enough. |
Put away your "not from these parts" complex - it's as boring as BBM's tactics
You were shot down for the rallying call because it diminishes debate. "Let's all pull together" is a way of saying "can we please stop being critical of what we're seeing" and just as w@nky | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 22:15 - Feb 27 with 1686 views | Shun |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:23 - Feb 27 by D_Alien |
Tbh, i wouldn't worry too much about major squad changes. If we have a new manager on board he's bound to have his own ideas and want to introduce players who're able to play the way he wants them to, so in many respects it can be an advantage rather than being stuck with disillusioned and/or past-it players
I know it was a different era, but when Bob Stokoe took over he completely revamped the squad and the entire starting XI apart from a couple of forwards was introduced for the 68/69 promotion campaign
[Post edited 27 Feb 2021 21:24]
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That’s the one thing that gives me a glimmer of hope. If we do have a new manager next season, regardless of what league we’re in, it at least gives them a chance to create their own squad and identity. With such a small core group of players contracted it’ll be as close an opportunity for tabula rasa as there ever is in football.
That’s not necessarily a bad thing when we consider all the things you mention, plus the fact that most of the current squad will have BBM’s philosophy, and the losing mentality, very much ingrained. |  | | |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 22:16 - Feb 27 with 1678 views | 442Dale |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 22:08 - Feb 27 by James1980 |
Fair enough but I feel it's implied. I'm not allowed to think. I dared to try and make a rallying call to supporters which got shot down because I'm not from round these parts and haven't been attending games for long enough. |
As posted above, this has been a good debate partly because of some of the points you’ve raised. All valid and have led to further constructive thoughts on the subject. If anyone ever uses the “ive been coming X years” in response to you, it only ensures their argument carries less weight as your views as a loyal fan are as important as mine or those guys over in Ireland who might only have been following Dale for a few years. It’s accepting we all care about the club and some have different opinions and right now there is a genuine concern that the direction we’re heading is not a good one and something needs to change. To support is not to blindly agree with the club or even each other, it’s to agree that the club needs to be better tomorrow than it is today. | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 22:18 - Feb 27 with 1660 views | James1980 |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 21:16 - Feb 27 by 442Dale |
Eyre and Coleman went within 13 months of each other. We didn’t get that reputation then. Plus it’s not about what football thinks about us as a club, it’s what the supporters think about their club. Again, that doesn’t strictly refer to whether a manager stays or goes. It’s about appreciating how people are feeling. |
But social media is much more prevalent than during those 13 months. I genuinely believe there will be some fans of any club who will have felt their tweets/Facebook/Forum posts, contribute to a manager being sacked and they will get a buzz from that.
Please note I said some fans and I am not referring to the entire fan base of Rochdale or any other club. | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 22:20 - Feb 27 with 1641 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 22:08 - Feb 27 by James1980 |
Fair enough but I feel it's implied. I'm not allowed to think. I dared to try and make a rallying call to supporters which got shot down because I'm not from round these parts and haven't been attending games for long enough. |
You really didn't and some of us are trying to help you from stopping yourself getting into arguments that you aren't going to win. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 22:27 - Feb 27 with 1596 views | 442Dale |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Burton Albion on 22:18 - Feb 27 by James1980 |
But social media is much more prevalent than during those 13 months. I genuinely believe there will be some fans of any club who will have felt their tweets/Facebook/Forum posts, contribute to a manager being sacked and they will get a buzz from that.
Please note I said some fans and I am not referring to the entire fan base of Rochdale or any other club. |
It really isn’t. Not as far as Dale is concerned anyway. This messageboard was MUCH busier then with many more posters who actually took the time to construct valid opinions either way on what was going on. Some may have dispersed to places like twitter, but short tweets full of reactionary bluster* are not going to have much impact as that happens everywhere these days.
It’s not perfect, but this forum gives you (and the club) a much better understanding of how the fanbase feels in general I believe. There’s actually a consensus either side of the middle ground that things have to change, again irrespective of who the manager is. If the club were to listen to fans online, and they should be using it to garner feedback, it will be the considered opinions of the masses that they should be able to sense if they’ve anything about them. Wherever it’s posted
*not everyone as Fitzochris uses twitter well when analysing a situation in a tweet. He’s not shouting over to his mate in a pub. . | |
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