| Nick - some questions 21:15 - Jul 22 with 5724 views | cynicalsaint |
As you have the inside track on a lot of issues and are a finance kind of guy...
Can you confirm whether SFC furloughed staff during the pandemic / will be using the employers benefit for retaining staff post pandemic?
Do SFC pay the living wage? Last reference i can see is 2019 when we weren't one of the 4 EPL clubs that did but would like to be re-assured that it's changed.
Do you know / any way you can find out what the average lead time to paying invoices for suppliers is at the club (and whether there's a material difference for this between small businesses and larger suppliers)?
Thanks. |  | | |  |
| Nick - some questions on 21:23 - Jul 22 with 4494 views | cynicalsaint |
apologies, possibly poor timing what with the trophy lift and everything, [Post edited 22 Jul 2020 21:23]
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| Nick - some questions on 21:26 - Jul 22 with 4485 views | SaintNick |
I cant really answer any of those questions, I'm sure if you address the first two directly to the club then you will get the answers.
As to the third question, I am not quite sure how anyone can find this out without asking the club directly and they are hardly likely to give the answer, I'm not really sure what your point is here |  |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
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| Nick - some questions on 21:26 - Jul 22 with 4481 views | SaintNick |
| Nick - some questions on 21:23 - Jul 22 by cynicalsaint |
apologies, possibly poor timing what with the trophy lift and everything, [Post edited 22 Jul 2020 21:23]
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Why would it be poor timing I was watching the West Brom V QPR game that has just ended | |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
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| Nick - some questions on 21:28 - Jul 22 with 4476 views | cynicalsaint |
| Nick - some questions on 21:26 - Jul 22 by SaintNick |
I cant really answer any of those questions, I'm sure if you address the first two directly to the club then you will get the answers.
As to the third question, I am not quite sure how anyone can find this out without asking the club directly and they are hardly likely to give the answer, I'm not really sure what your point is here |
Ah, sorry. Thought you had some contacts at the club who might be able to provide the lowdown.
As it's taken more than three weeks to, not, see progress on my ST refund i figured that someone connected might be able to get answers.
Appreciate you might not want to ask difficult / uncomfortable questions though. | | | |
| Nick - some questions on 21:32 - Jul 22 with 4463 views | SaintNick |
| Nick - some questions on 21:28 - Jul 22 by cynicalsaint |
Ah, sorry. Thought you had some contacts at the club who might be able to provide the lowdown.
As it's taken more than three weeks to, not, see progress on my ST refund i figured that someone connected might be able to get answers.
Appreciate you might not want to ask difficult / uncomfortable questions though. |
None of them are that uncomfortable, as I said the first two are straight forward, all I can say on the second is that the club have told me they are working through season ticket refunds, but as all the ticket office staff are working from home it is not so easy to process them as they cannot go to the stadium until after the final game on Sunday, which is the case for all non playing staff aside from I believe the odd essential workers | |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
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| Nick - some questions on 21:39 - Jul 22 with 4452 views | cynicalsaint |
| Nick - some questions on 21:32 - Jul 22 by SaintNick |
None of them are that uncomfortable, as I said the first two are straight forward, all I can say on the second is that the club have told me they are working through season ticket refunds, but as all the ticket office staff are working from home it is not so easy to process them as they cannot go to the stadium until after the final game on Sunday, which is the case for all non playing staff aside from I believe the odd essential workers |
cool - if it's easy then assume you can get back to me on them and that'd be great. what with your contacts and everything ;-)
not sure i buy the 'working from home = not so easy'.
it's all online - the company i work for has been WFH since March. We haven't seen any drop off on customer service. Scummy companies are using it as an excuse but the majority have found that WFH has very little impact on things. I'm sure SFC aren't going to weasel out of things by using location of staff as an excuse. We're a community club afterall. | | | |
| Nick - some questions on 21:56 - Jul 22 with 4412 views | SaintNick |
| Nick - some questions on 21:39 - Jul 22 by cynicalsaint |
cool - if it's easy then assume you can get back to me on them and that'd be great. what with your contacts and everything ;-)
not sure i buy the 'working from home = not so easy'.
it's all online - the company i work for has been WFH since March. We haven't seen any drop off on customer service. Scummy companies are using it as an excuse but the majority have found that WFH has very little impact on things. I'm sure SFC aren't going to weasel out of things by using location of staff as an excuse. We're a community club afterall. |
With due respect it is not me who wants to know the answer just e mail the supporter relations department they will answer.
I'm not sure either, but that is what they tell me
Technically they don't have to refund the money till the games you have paid for have been paid and you not been able to be given admittance, they did tell everyone that refunds would take several weeks and they tell me they are trying to refund those who have a genuine financial need first, if you have just asked for a refund then you will be in a queue , if you are in financial dire straits then e mail them and tell them via supporter relations rather than the ticket office | |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
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| Nick - some questions on 22:05 - Jul 22 with 4385 views | cynicalsaint |
| Nick - some questions on 21:56 - Jul 22 by SaintNick |
With due respect it is not me who wants to know the answer just e mail the supporter relations department they will answer.
I'm not sure either, but that is what they tell me
Technically they don't have to refund the money till the games you have paid for have been paid and you not been able to be given admittance, they did tell everyone that refunds would take several weeks and they tell me they are trying to refund those who have a genuine financial need first, if you have just asked for a refund then you will be in a queue , if you are in financial dire straits then e mail them and tell them via supporter relations rather than the ticket office |
'techincally'
morally they should have given me my money back weeks ago. i have spoken to 3 people at the club in the last 3 weeks, explained my circumstances, and got nowhere.
My questions to you were posed to give you the opportunity to demonstrate that the club is ethical and invested in the community (something i think we'd all hope is the case) but you've chosen to push it back on me.
which speak volumes. | | | |
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| Nick - some questions on 22:28 - Jul 22 with 4342 views | cynicalsaint |
in the season tickets thread you said "You are right there are many questions to be answered and I will try and get some answers for you"
why are you so reticent when it comes to more fundamental questions about the club's ethos? [Post edited 22 Jul 2020 22:28]
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| Nick - some questions on 22:37 - Jul 22 with 4318 views | SaintNick |
| Nick - some questions on 22:28 - Jul 22 by cynicalsaint |
in the season tickets thread you said "You are right there are many questions to be answered and I will try and get some answers for you"
why are you so reticent when it comes to more fundamental questions about the club's ethos? [Post edited 22 Jul 2020 22:28]
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I have got some answers for you, what do you want me to say, I do not work for the club, i can only try to get questions answered, if you think that the club is lying then take that up with them, not me.
With regard to the season ticket refund, what has that got to do with the club's ethos ? they have stated a timeline for refunding season tickets and I relayed the fact that if anyone had a financial issue then they should contact the club directly and tell them this.
Perhaps there are people who have contacted them who need the money urgently, perhaps they have prioritised them over you, I really can't give you that answer.
If you want me to do anything the pm your name, address season ticket details and your gripes and I will pass it on to my contacts in the club.
But I cant so anything otherwise and all i can do is pass the details on | |
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| Nick - some questions on 22:47 - Jul 22 with 4294 views | cynicalsaint |
| Nick - some questions on 22:37 - Jul 22 by SaintNick |
I have got some answers for you, what do you want me to say, I do not work for the club, i can only try to get questions answered, if you think that the club is lying then take that up with them, not me.
With regard to the season ticket refund, what has that got to do with the club's ethos ? they have stated a timeline for refunding season tickets and I relayed the fact that if anyone had a financial issue then they should contact the club directly and tell them this.
Perhaps there are people who have contacted them who need the money urgently, perhaps they have prioritised them over you, I really can't give you that answer.
If you want me to do anything the pm your name, address season ticket details and your gripes and I will pass it on to my contacts in the club.
But I cant so anything otherwise and all i can do is pass the details on |
thanks Nick.
I am not suggesting the club is lying. I was just hoping you could provide some reassurance with your inside contacts.
Appreciate your offer to see if you can hurry things on for me. truth is i don't need it accelerated but no-one at the club knows that and that is the bottom line of why i am so disenchanted. Surely they should be hurrying up anyone who calls asking for a refund without having to deep dive the why?
That would be the ethical / compassionate route, right? [Post edited 22 Jul 2020 22:50]
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| Nick - some questions on 08:00 - Jul 23 with 4173 views | SaintNick |
| Nick - some questions on 22:47 - Jul 22 by cynicalsaint |
thanks Nick.
I am not suggesting the club is lying. I was just hoping you could provide some reassurance with your inside contacts.
Appreciate your offer to see if you can hurry things on for me. truth is i don't need it accelerated but no-one at the club knows that and that is the bottom line of why i am so disenchanted. Surely they should be hurrying up anyone who calls asking for a refund without having to deep dive the why?
That would be the ethical / compassionate route, right? [Post edited 22 Jul 2020 22:50]
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Looking at this from a practical point of view, the club at the moment has had to pack a lot of stuff into a short period without actually knowing what the situation will be going forward due to know fault of their own.
They have to prepare for a new season and sell/renew potentially around 20,000 season tickets and they cannot go into their own stadium and offices due to the rules around lockdown for football.
Refunds have to be processed manually as they have to be rquested, they have no way of knowing who is renewing or who will want a refund until September 1st otherwise.
So lets assume that there is a 10% drop out, that is 2,000 potential refunds, given the full time ticket office staff is probably only around 4 people these days as few tickets are sold face to face and that a member of staff could deal around 50 refunds a day.( about 1 every 10 minutes)
That would mean that if they allocated one member of staff to do this full time the timescale would be about 8 weeks.
I am not sticking up for them here, just pointing out the reality of the situation in a difficult time.
Most people I have spoken to are not desperate for £120 they are just getting indignant, the reality is that the club have had to hold off to the season is over, if they had refunded 3 weeks ago and there had been a miracle cure and crowds could have returned for the game on Sunday it would be chaos and all those who had demanded and got a refund would be complaining that they now can't get into the game.
They have tried to find out those who truly have hardshi and this has been hampered by those who truly don't demanding payment.
The sad thing is that too many people always seem to be looking for a way to slag off the club, we still have people moaning that those in charge who have now been gone a couple of years allowed players to leave six years ago, we are working ourselves into a frenzy just because has become the norm, even when we were finishing 8th and getting to a major cup final it wasn't good enough for some.
I am the first to get on to the club when things aren't right, but I don't give them stick for the sake of it.
We have to get out of this culture as there is no way to move forward otherwise, Everton for instance have had a terrible season when you consider their aspirations 4 years ago of Champions League, but their fans aren't working up into a frenzy about £120, they are renewing and also have an active group sorting out food banks for those truly in need.
Perhaps we should look at what the fans of other clubs are doing, they dont seem to hate their clubs as much as some of our fans do | |
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| Nick - some questions on 08:23 - Jul 23 with 4156 views | cynicalsaint |
| Nick - some questions on 08:00 - Jul 23 by SaintNick |
Looking at this from a practical point of view, the club at the moment has had to pack a lot of stuff into a short period without actually knowing what the situation will be going forward due to know fault of their own.
They have to prepare for a new season and sell/renew potentially around 20,000 season tickets and they cannot go into their own stadium and offices due to the rules around lockdown for football.
Refunds have to be processed manually as they have to be rquested, they have no way of knowing who is renewing or who will want a refund until September 1st otherwise.
So lets assume that there is a 10% drop out, that is 2,000 potential refunds, given the full time ticket office staff is probably only around 4 people these days as few tickets are sold face to face and that a member of staff could deal around 50 refunds a day.( about 1 every 10 minutes)
That would mean that if they allocated one member of staff to do this full time the timescale would be about 8 weeks.
I am not sticking up for them here, just pointing out the reality of the situation in a difficult time.
Most people I have spoken to are not desperate for £120 they are just getting indignant, the reality is that the club have had to hold off to the season is over, if they had refunded 3 weeks ago and there had been a miracle cure and crowds could have returned for the game on Sunday it would be chaos and all those who had demanded and got a refund would be complaining that they now can't get into the game.
They have tried to find out those who truly have hardshi and this has been hampered by those who truly don't demanding payment.
The sad thing is that too many people always seem to be looking for a way to slag off the club, we still have people moaning that those in charge who have now been gone a couple of years allowed players to leave six years ago, we are working ourselves into a frenzy just because has become the norm, even when we were finishing 8th and getting to a major cup final it wasn't good enough for some.
I am the first to get on to the club when things aren't right, but I don't give them stick for the sake of it.
We have to get out of this culture as there is no way to move forward otherwise, Everton for instance have had a terrible season when you consider their aspirations 4 years ago of Champions League, but their fans aren't working up into a frenzy about £120, they are renewing and also have an active group sorting out food banks for those truly in need.
Perhaps we should look at what the fans of other clubs are doing, they dont seem to hate their clubs as much as some of our fans do |
I don't 'hate' the club - quite the opposite. It's been my passion for decades but their conduct (not just the refunds issue) over the last few years doesn't sit right. You're imploring people on here to take a leap of faith and buy a ST - i'm just trying to get a bit more clarity about the culture of the organisation you're asking them to buy into.
You have repeatedly said 'just give them a ring and it will all be sorted' - not based on my experience. If i was renewing i wouldn't be too confident of getting match on match refunds paid promptly (if we use your maths then i think the season would be over before i'd get the refund on the opening fixture)?
You've claimed "They have tried to find out those who truly have hardshi " - really? how does that work. i'd love for this to be true but noone i know has been contacted by the club...
Suggesting that their efforts have "been hampered by those who truly don't demanding payment." - well, that's a interesting take on things! | | | |
| Nick - some questions on 08:28 - Jul 23 with 4146 views | Buggalugs |
| Nick - some questions on 08:00 - Jul 23 by SaintNick |
Looking at this from a practical point of view, the club at the moment has had to pack a lot of stuff into a short period without actually knowing what the situation will be going forward due to know fault of their own.
They have to prepare for a new season and sell/renew potentially around 20,000 season tickets and they cannot go into their own stadium and offices due to the rules around lockdown for football.
Refunds have to be processed manually as they have to be rquested, they have no way of knowing who is renewing or who will want a refund until September 1st otherwise.
So lets assume that there is a 10% drop out, that is 2,000 potential refunds, given the full time ticket office staff is probably only around 4 people these days as few tickets are sold face to face and that a member of staff could deal around 50 refunds a day.( about 1 every 10 minutes)
That would mean that if they allocated one member of staff to do this full time the timescale would be about 8 weeks.
I am not sticking up for them here, just pointing out the reality of the situation in a difficult time.
Most people I have spoken to are not desperate for £120 they are just getting indignant, the reality is that the club have had to hold off to the season is over, if they had refunded 3 weeks ago and there had been a miracle cure and crowds could have returned for the game on Sunday it would be chaos and all those who had demanded and got a refund would be complaining that they now can't get into the game.
They have tried to find out those who truly have hardshi and this has been hampered by those who truly don't demanding payment.
The sad thing is that too many people always seem to be looking for a way to slag off the club, we still have people moaning that those in charge who have now been gone a couple of years allowed players to leave six years ago, we are working ourselves into a frenzy just because has become the norm, even when we were finishing 8th and getting to a major cup final it wasn't good enough for some.
I am the first to get on to the club when things aren't right, but I don't give them stick for the sake of it.
We have to get out of this culture as there is no way to move forward otherwise, Everton for instance have had a terrible season when you consider their aspirations 4 years ago of Champions League, but their fans aren't working up into a frenzy about £120, they are renewing and also have an active group sorting out food banks for those truly in need.
Perhaps we should look at what the fans of other clubs are doing, they dont seem to hate their clubs as much as some of our fans do |
We do have a strange bunch down here. We all like a moan now and again, but the constant put-downs of SFC by it's own supporters is odd and has definitely picked up pace over the last few years.
A sizable proportion seem to have forgotten what supporting a football club is all about and although I appreciate and understand a lot of love has been sucked out of people with the mass commercialisation of the game, I don't understand why they just don't detach themselves from it and move on. |  |
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| Nick - some questions on 08:38 - Jul 23 with 4133 views | Buggalugs |
| Nick - some questions on 08:23 - Jul 23 by cynicalsaint |
I don't 'hate' the club - quite the opposite. It's been my passion for decades but their conduct (not just the refunds issue) over the last few years doesn't sit right. You're imploring people on here to take a leap of faith and buy a ST - i'm just trying to get a bit more clarity about the culture of the organisation you're asking them to buy into.
You have repeatedly said 'just give them a ring and it will all be sorted' - not based on my experience. If i was renewing i wouldn't be too confident of getting match on match refunds paid promptly (if we use your maths then i think the season would be over before i'd get the refund on the opening fixture)?
You've claimed "They have tried to find out those who truly have hardshi " - really? how does that work. i'd love for this to be true but noone i know has been contacted by the club...
Suggesting that their efforts have "been hampered by those who truly don't demanding payment." - well, that's a interesting take on things! |
You're just being a prat. Moaning about a refund you've admitted you don't need and you know you'll eventually get....the current season is still on-going you realise? Moaning about the ethics of the club. Moaning about whether the club pay the living wage. Moaning about whether they furloughed staff. You're even moaning about how long they take to pay supplier invoices.
All this from someone who has had a passion for the club for decades. Yeah, ok. | |
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| Nick - some questions on 08:57 - Jul 23 with 4116 views | SaintNick |
| Nick - some questions on 08:23 - Jul 23 by cynicalsaint |
I don't 'hate' the club - quite the opposite. It's been my passion for decades but their conduct (not just the refunds issue) over the last few years doesn't sit right. You're imploring people on here to take a leap of faith and buy a ST - i'm just trying to get a bit more clarity about the culture of the organisation you're asking them to buy into.
You have repeatedly said 'just give them a ring and it will all be sorted' - not based on my experience. If i was renewing i wouldn't be too confident of getting match on match refunds paid promptly (if we use your maths then i think the season would be over before i'd get the refund on the opening fixture)?
You've claimed "They have tried to find out those who truly have hardshi " - really? how does that work. i'd love for this to be true but noone i know has been contacted by the club...
Suggesting that their efforts have "been hampered by those who truly don't demanding payment." - well, that's a interesting take on things! |
"clarity about the culture of the organisation " what sort of remark is that, if everyone did that then the Premier League would be played to empty stadiums and there would be queues around the block at Accrington Stanley, we would all shop at the corner shop and boycott the high street.
Where is the "leap of faith" in buying a season ticket ?
I am truly bewildered about how you have managed to get this far in watching Saints, surely you would have walked away in 1982 when the then board sold season tickets before Keggan went to Newcastle.
Yes the last paragraph is truly an interesting take on things, but is is a simple theory, if there are 100 people demanding refunds and only 1 actually needs the money because he is in financial trouble, he might well suffer more because those that don't are dealt with ahead of them.
I don't know anyone who had Covid19, so does that mean it hasn't really happened.
This is giving me a little more clarity about the culture of cynicalsaint, it is "I want my share and i want it now regardless of the fact that their may be others more in need" | |
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| Nick - some questions on 09:22 - Jul 23 with 4089 views | Boris_ |
Found a picture of Cynical Saint online.
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| Nick - some questions on 13:07 - Jul 23 with 3979 views | cynicalsaint |
| Nick - some questions on 09:22 - Jul 23 by Boris_ |
Found a picture of Cynical Saint online.
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Lol - nah thats not me. I didn't follow your advice and take it to the echo. Just posed some questions on a Saints forum... | | | |
| Nick - some questions on 21:51 - Jul 23 with 3852 views | TimSaint |
| Nick - some questions on 13:07 - Jul 23 by cynicalsaint |
Lol - nah thats not me. I didn't follow your advice and take it to the echo. Just posed some questions on a Saints forum... |
So after admitting that you don't need the money and being told by the club (more than once) that they won't be processing refunds until August, why do you repeatedly try to belittle the club you allegedly love so much ?
If this is not a wind up, or an attention seeking exercise, then please be patient - just like anyone else awaiting their refund. It will come, but as they have told you, it won't be til next month. |  |
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| Nick - some questions on 04:32 - Jul 24 with 3782 views | areasix |
I fully agree with you Tim I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination but I find money To buy my ticket each year a) To support my club that I have done since I was a teenager through think and thin knowing that some weeks I wish I had not spent the money due to what I watch but I do it for the love of my club. When you have a business and you can survive this terrible virus you know that it will take time to recover.
In some cases they don’t survive and as only posted a couple of weeks ago Saints are not flush with money At present and therefore until they can do their wheeler dealing in the transfer mkt and collect the win bonus / league position / tv money they are skint.
Support the club and be patient a refund which I had already written off at the start of the season will arrive and will help me to buy for next season which I can only hope will be an exciting one. But who knows we live in hope. | | | |
| Nick - some questions on 07:21 - Jul 24 with 3752 views | saintwizzler |
| Nick - some questions on 21:51 - Jul 23 by TimSaint |
So after admitting that you don't need the money and being told by the club (more than once) that they won't be processing refunds until August, why do you repeatedly try to belittle the club you allegedly love so much ?
If this is not a wind up, or an attention seeking exercise, then please be patient - just like anyone else awaiting their refund. It will come, but as they have told you, it won't be til next month. |
I asked for an immediate refund as it was stated by the Club was possible before August.
I had the same email as Cynical a week last Wednesday, I believe he got his the day after, saying to reply with bank details and the refund would be processed.
I did immediately.
I have had nothing since. I have emailed everyday this week and no reply.
I just want an answer off someone to when it is coming.
Why offer an early refund (before August) if your not going to deliver.
Bank transfers are immediate in this day and age are they not?
To be told that there’s no one available in the TO to talk to as they are not in because of lockdown seems strange when there’s some manning the phones on Main Reception (what a snotty cow) and telephone sales in the Megastore.
I’m resigned to the refund not coming before August (balance this months books) so I will try once more today and then stop and wait.
I received and email from the club this morning ’The Sash is back!’
Thanks x |  |
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| Nick - some questions on 07:23 - Jul 24 with 3746 views | saintwizzler |
| Nick - some questions on 04:32 - Jul 24 by areasix |
I fully agree with you Tim I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination but I find money To buy my ticket each year a) To support my club that I have done since I was a teenager through think and thin knowing that some weeks I wish I had not spent the money due to what I watch but I do it for the love of my club. When you have a business and you can survive this terrible virus you know that it will take time to recover.
In some cases they don’t survive and as only posted a couple of weeks ago Saints are not flush with money At present and therefore until they can do their wheeler dealing in the transfer mkt and collect the win bonus / league position / tv money they are skint.
Support the club and be patient a refund which I had already written off at the start of the season will arrive and will help me to buy for next season which I can only hope will be an exciting one. But who knows we live in hope. |
Fair points.
Everyone’s situation is different. | |
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| Nick - some questions on 07:42 - Jul 24 with 3734 views | Buggalugs |
| Nick - some questions on 07:21 - Jul 24 by saintwizzler |
I asked for an immediate refund as it was stated by the Club was possible before August.
I had the same email as Cynical a week last Wednesday, I believe he got his the day after, saying to reply with bank details and the refund would be processed.
I did immediately.
I have had nothing since. I have emailed everyday this week and no reply.
I just want an answer off someone to when it is coming.
Why offer an early refund (before August) if your not going to deliver.
Bank transfers are immediate in this day and age are they not?
To be told that there’s no one available in the TO to talk to as they are not in because of lockdown seems strange when there’s some manning the phones on Main Reception (what a snotty cow) and telephone sales in the Megastore.
I’m resigned to the refund not coming before August (balance this months books) so I will try once more today and then stop and wait.
I received and email from the club this morning ’The Sash is back!’
Thanks x |
The ticket office rang me back within 2 hours of filling out the season ticket renewal form to process my payment, so the “no-one in the ticket office” excuse is bollox. | |
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| Nick - some questions on 07:57 - Jul 24 with 3721 views | saintwizzler |
| Nick - some questions on 07:42 - Jul 24 by Buggalugs |
The ticket office rang me back within 2 hours of filling out the season ticket renewal form to process my payment, so the “no-one in the ticket office” excuse is bollox. |
Thank you Hun x | |
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| Nick - some questions on 08:24 - Jul 24 with 3699 views | cynicalsaint |
| Nick - some questions on 21:51 - Jul 23 by TimSaint |
So after admitting that you don't need the money and being told by the club (more than once) that they won't be processing refunds until August, why do you repeatedly try to belittle the club you allegedly love so much ?
If this is not a wind up, or an attention seeking exercise, then please be patient - just like anyone else awaiting their refund. It will come, but as they have told you, it won't be til next month. |
It wasn't intended to be a wind up but it does seem to have triggered a few people.
It wasn't an attention seeking exercise either - read it back. I just asked some questions, in good faith, as I don't have any contacts at the club and figured Nick might be able to shed some light.
No answers, but i copped plenty of flack as a result - which is fine but suggesting my position is "i want my share and i want it now regardless of the fact that their (sic) may be other more in need" is completely missing the point.
Plenty on here (me included) have piled in on other clubs with 'dubious' business practices...
Bugaluggs asked why people don't just walk away. Thats easy when your a 'customer' - but not so much when you're a fan. | | | |
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