| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread 18:11 - Jun 18 with 15917 views | bluey_the_blue |
Runners and riders...
Boris Johnson - 126
Jeremy Hunt — 46
Michael Gove — 41
Dominic Raab — 30
Sajid Javid — 33
Rory Stewart — 37
Definite tactical voting went on there; Raab out which is to surprise to anyone.
Stewart's still in there, not made any major gain though with all still to play for. [Post edited 18 Jun 2019 18:17]
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:10 - Jun 18 with 1391 views | Darran |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:03 - Jun 18 by bluey_the_blue |
Everyone else opened their mouth and looked stupid. He didn't really get the chance to talk, so wins by default I guess. |
“Everyone else opened their mouth and looked stupid”
A bit like you attacking that disabled lady. |  |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:10 - Jun 18 with 1391 views | bluey_the_blue |
Could be argued the difference is a general election now delays any resolution of Brexit. Blair / Brown handover didn't have such a factor with time pressures. | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:12 - Jun 18 with 1380 views | exiledclaseboy |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:10 - Jun 18 by bluey_the_blue |
Could be argued the difference is a general election now delays any resolution of Brexit. Blair / Brown handover didn't have such a factor with time pressures. |
Brown was leading a government with a mandate and a majority. Whoever gets elected now is leading a minority government with no mandate for anything. |  |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:12 - Jun 18 with 1364 views | WarwickHunt |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:10 - Jun 18 by bluey_the_blue |
Could be argued the difference is a general election now delays any resolution of Brexit. Blair / Brown handover didn't have such a factor with time pressures. |
It could be. If you're a deluded Tory.
Not much bleating about democracy from the Brexiters. Funny that... |  | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:13 - Jun 18 with 1368 views | Humpty |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:08 - Jun 18 by exiledclaseboy |
Johnson’s insistence that an election would be a terrible thing when he insisted Brown should call one when he took over was hilarious. |
Yeah but this is different though. |  | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:14 - Jun 18 with 1363 views | Humpty |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:04 - Jun 18 by bluey_the_blue |
Wasn't helped by the format or Maitlis either.
The C4 debate was far better imo. |
I didn't watch it but listened on the radio. Can't say I noticed her do anything wrong.
What did she did do? | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:14 - Jun 18 with 1362 views | bluey_the_blue |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:12 - Jun 18 by WarwickHunt |
It could be. If you're a deluded Tory.
Not much bleating about democracy from the Brexiters. Funny that... |
Didn't say I agreed with that but it's one argument for. | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:17 - Jun 18 with 1348 views | BrynCartwright |
Rory Stewart stood out for several reasons.
He was the only one not to wear a tie ( but kept his top button done up like a plum), had his feet on the floor throughout, but most importantly talked a bit of sense.
1. He would not drop taxes in the usual Tory coquettish way to appeal to the wealthy and actually uses taxation to invest in public services. In that way he is unique out of those tools.
2. He will not accept a no deal Brexit, unlike all the other bell-whiffs.
As a centrist left winger I would rather rub Carolina Reaper paste into my japs than vote for a Tory, but out of all those guys tonight Rory Stewart was the only remotely sensible one. I wish him well. |  |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:17 - Jun 18 with 1348 views | bluey_the_blue |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:14 - Jun 18 by Humpty |
I didn't watch it but listened on the radio. Can't say I noticed her do anything wrong.
What did she did do? |
Didn't really have any control at all, granted that's down to the candidates to a degree. At times was more concerned at getting a "ha! gotcha!" moment by trying to skewer candidates with her pre-prepared lines of attack rather than always reacting to what was said.
Maitlis has strengths as a presenter, don't think hosting that kind of format is her cup of tea. Andrew Neil would have been far tougher and in control.
I also think the debate should have been longer, it was rushed a far bit. | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:20 - Jun 18 with 1335 views | bluey_the_blue |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:17 - Jun 18 by BrynCartwright |
Rory Stewart stood out for several reasons.
He was the only one not to wear a tie ( but kept his top button done up like a plum), had his feet on the floor throughout, but most importantly talked a bit of sense.
1. He would not drop taxes in the usual Tory coquettish way to appeal to the wealthy and actually uses taxation to invest in public services. In that way he is unique out of those tools.
2. He will not accept a no deal Brexit, unlike all the other bell-whiffs.
As a centrist left winger I would rather rub Carolina Reaper paste into my japs than vote for a Tory, but out of all those guys tonight Rory Stewart was the only remotely sensible one. I wish him well. |
Well, the argument against Stewart is his only real plan for Brexit is to get May's deal through.
Tax cuts don't always result in less taxation, indeed low corporation tax tends to lead to more tax being paid. It's not as simplistic as "higher tax = more revenue". | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:20 - Jun 18 with 1335 views | Darran |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:12 - Jun 18 by WarwickHunt |
It could be. If you're a deluded Tory.
Not much bleating about democracy from the Brexiters. Funny that... |
A deluded disablist Tory at that. | |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:21 - Jun 18 with 1326 views | sherpajacob |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:01 - Jun 18 by bluey_the_blue |
Well that debate was p1ss poor.
Javid the winner due to being talked over constantly? |
The only clear winner tonight was Nicola Sturgeon. |  |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:22 - Jun 18 with 1323 views | Darran |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:21 - Jun 18 by sherpajacob |
The only clear winner tonight was Nicola Sturgeon. |
Don’t give Bluey ammunition. | |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:22 - Jun 18 with 1322 views | bluey_the_blue |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:21 - Jun 18 by sherpajacob |
The only clear winner tonight was Nicola Sturgeon. |
Shocked she didn't crash the studio with a Rambo bandana yelling "Freeeeeeeeeeeedom". | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:26 - Jun 18 with 1284 views | WarwickHunt |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:17 - Jun 18 by BrynCartwright |
Rory Stewart stood out for several reasons.
He was the only one not to wear a tie ( but kept his top button done up like a plum), had his feet on the floor throughout, but most importantly talked a bit of sense.
1. He would not drop taxes in the usual Tory coquettish way to appeal to the wealthy and actually uses taxation to invest in public services. In that way he is unique out of those tools.
2. He will not accept a no deal Brexit, unlike all the other bell-whiffs.
As a centrist left winger I would rather rub Carolina Reaper paste into my japs than vote for a Tory, but out of all those guys tonight Rory Stewart was the only remotely sensible one. I wish him well. |
He'd make a good leader...of the Lib Dems. | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:26 - Jun 18 with 1290 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:14 - Jun 18 by Humpty |
I didn't watch it but listened on the radio. Can't say I noticed her do anything wrong.
What did she did do? |
Couldn't wait to put the boot into Corbyn, despite the question being to each of the panellists over "alleged" Islamophobia in the tory party. No mention of windrush probably either but by that point I'd switched over. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:28 - Jun 18 with 1282 views | exiledclaseboy |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:21 - Jun 18 by sherpajacob |
The only clear winner tonight was Nicola Sturgeon. |
And the clear loser the entire UK. | |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:29 - Jun 18 with 1277 views | sherpajacob |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:22 - Jun 18 by bluey_the_blue |
Shocked she didn't crash the studio with a Rambo bandana yelling "Freeeeeeeeeeeedom". |
She's smart enough to know, never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake. | |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:32 - Jun 18 with 1261 views | Joe_bradshaw |
Where’s Trampie?
I’m desperate to discover how that was a big win for Plaid. And to hear how the lovely Leanne would have mopped, I mean wiped the floor with all of them. |  |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:37 - Jun 18 with 1243 views | Darran |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:14 - Jun 18 by Humpty |
I didn't watch it but listened on the radio. Can't say I noticed her do anything wrong.
What did she did do? |
She was dreadful. Couldn’t control it at all. | |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:44 - Jun 18 with 1217 views | exiledclaseboy |
I know it’s the Guardian and they hate Tories anyway but this is pretty accurate, not to mention brutal:
BBC Tory leadership debate - Snap verdict
It is hard to recall any other televised leadership debate that reflected so badly on the party concerned. This went out in a BBC primetime slot and yet, the biggest issue of the day, Brexit, the five people vying to be the next PM singularly failed to allay the concerns that were put to them by viewers. Will no-deal put by husband out of business? Don’t worry, there will be some “economic turbulence”, but we’ll get through it, said Michael Gove. Will you be able to keep the Irish border open? All the candidates said it should be kept open, but none could say how. In fact, on Brexit, no one could answer the how question at all. And, once the topic turned away from Brexit, there were unfunded promises on tax and a general recognition that public services are stretched - without any acknowledgment that the government all five have supported has been responsible. On social media there have been some complaints that Tory leadership coverage crowds out the Labour/opposition perspective, but it is hard to see how anyone at CCHQ might view this as positive coverage for the party.
Whether this will make any difference to the leadership election is a different matter. Sajid Javid probably had the best night, mostly for the lovely moment when he bounced his reluctant colleagues into agreeing an external inquiry into Islamophobia in the Tory pary. Whether this ever comes to anything is another matter, but he looked decisive. If only solving Brexit were that easy. Jeremy Hunt and Michael Gove both did relatively okay. As the candidate with the most distinctive message on Brexit, and on taxation and public services, Rory Stewart would probably win the support of the 50% of the public on that side of the argument. But they are not well represented on the Conservative party, and his evasive answer in response to Javid’s probing on the President Trump/Katie Hopkins tweet probably lost him a lot of ground with liberal Britain. Boris Johnson probably had the worst night. His attempt to excuse his gaffe about Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe was an obvious mistake. (Even if, as he claimed, his words did not make a difference to her incarceration, that was not the argument to make - he should have just said he made a mistake, and was sorry.) On Brexit he was unconvincing (as was everyone else.) And forgetting the Imam’s name might have been a very rivial mishap, but it was one that appeared to confirm a negative view many people have of him - that he has a casual disregard for some people who are not white.
Debates don’t make as much difference as people think, and Johnson remains the overall favourite to become next prime minister. But leadership contests are supposed to invigorate a party and leave it looking more attractive to the public. On the basis of tonight, it is hard to see that happening to the Conservatives this summer. | |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:47 - Jun 18 with 1205 views | bluey_the_blue |
I know you'll correct me if/when wrong, but didn't Iran extend Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffes sentence days before BoJos comments?
As for the rest of the Guardian analysis, difficult to disagree with most of it. | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:58 - Jun 18 with 1175 views | Darran |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:44 - Jun 18 by exiledclaseboy |
I know it’s the Guardian and they hate Tories anyway but this is pretty accurate, not to mention brutal:
BBC Tory leadership debate - Snap verdict
It is hard to recall any other televised leadership debate that reflected so badly on the party concerned. This went out in a BBC primetime slot and yet, the biggest issue of the day, Brexit, the five people vying to be the next PM singularly failed to allay the concerns that were put to them by viewers. Will no-deal put by husband out of business? Don’t worry, there will be some “economic turbulence”, but we’ll get through it, said Michael Gove. Will you be able to keep the Irish border open? All the candidates said it should be kept open, but none could say how. In fact, on Brexit, no one could answer the how question at all. And, once the topic turned away from Brexit, there were unfunded promises on tax and a general recognition that public services are stretched - without any acknowledgment that the government all five have supported has been responsible. On social media there have been some complaints that Tory leadership coverage crowds out the Labour/opposition perspective, but it is hard to see how anyone at CCHQ might view this as positive coverage for the party.
Whether this will make any difference to the leadership election is a different matter. Sajid Javid probably had the best night, mostly for the lovely moment when he bounced his reluctant colleagues into agreeing an external inquiry into Islamophobia in the Tory pary. Whether this ever comes to anything is another matter, but he looked decisive. If only solving Brexit were that easy. Jeremy Hunt and Michael Gove both did relatively okay. As the candidate with the most distinctive message on Brexit, and on taxation and public services, Rory Stewart would probably win the support of the 50% of the public on that side of the argument. But they are not well represented on the Conservative party, and his evasive answer in response to Javid’s probing on the President Trump/Katie Hopkins tweet probably lost him a lot of ground with liberal Britain. Boris Johnson probably had the worst night. His attempt to excuse his gaffe about Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe was an obvious mistake. (Even if, as he claimed, his words did not make a difference to her incarceration, that was not the argument to make - he should have just said he made a mistake, and was sorry.) On Brexit he was unconvincing (as was everyone else.) And forgetting the Imam’s name might have been a very rivial mishap, but it was one that appeared to confirm a negative view many people have of him - that he has a casual disregard for some people who are not white.
Debates don’t make as much difference as people think, and Johnson remains the overall favourite to become next prime minister. But leadership contests are supposed to invigorate a party and leave it looking more attractive to the public. On the basis of tonight, it is hard to see that happening to the Conservatives this summer. |
They could have added that Maitlis was like a minge. | |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:59 - Jun 18 with 1174 views | union_jack |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:32 - Jun 18 by Joe_bradshaw |
Where’s Trampie?
I’m desperate to discover how that was a big win for Plaid. And to hear how the lovely Leanne would have mopped, I mean wiped the floor with all of them. |
Not to mention they didn’t ask anyone from Wales to pose a question😄 |  |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 22:01 - Jun 18 with 1169 views | union_jack |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 21:44 - Jun 18 by exiledclaseboy |
I know it’s the Guardian and they hate Tories anyway but this is pretty accurate, not to mention brutal:
BBC Tory leadership debate - Snap verdict
It is hard to recall any other televised leadership debate that reflected so badly on the party concerned. This went out in a BBC primetime slot and yet, the biggest issue of the day, Brexit, the five people vying to be the next PM singularly failed to allay the concerns that were put to them by viewers. Will no-deal put by husband out of business? Don’t worry, there will be some “economic turbulence”, but we’ll get through it, said Michael Gove. Will you be able to keep the Irish border open? All the candidates said it should be kept open, but none could say how. In fact, on Brexit, no one could answer the how question at all. And, once the topic turned away from Brexit, there were unfunded promises on tax and a general recognition that public services are stretched - without any acknowledgment that the government all five have supported has been responsible. On social media there have been some complaints that Tory leadership coverage crowds out the Labour/opposition perspective, but it is hard to see how anyone at CCHQ might view this as positive coverage for the party.
Whether this will make any difference to the leadership election is a different matter. Sajid Javid probably had the best night, mostly for the lovely moment when he bounced his reluctant colleagues into agreeing an external inquiry into Islamophobia in the Tory pary. Whether this ever comes to anything is another matter, but he looked decisive. If only solving Brexit were that easy. Jeremy Hunt and Michael Gove both did relatively okay. As the candidate with the most distinctive message on Brexit, and on taxation and public services, Rory Stewart would probably win the support of the 50% of the public on that side of the argument. But they are not well represented on the Conservative party, and his evasive answer in response to Javid’s probing on the President Trump/Katie Hopkins tweet probably lost him a lot of ground with liberal Britain. Boris Johnson probably had the worst night. His attempt to excuse his gaffe about Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe was an obvious mistake. (Even if, as he claimed, his words did not make a difference to her incarceration, that was not the argument to make - he should have just said he made a mistake, and was sorry.) On Brexit he was unconvincing (as was everyone else.) And forgetting the Imam’s name might have been a very rivial mishap, but it was one that appeared to confirm a negative view many people have of him - that he has a casual disregard for some people who are not white.
Debates don’t make as much difference as people think, and Johnson remains the overall favourite to become next prime minister. But leadership contests are supposed to invigorate a party and leave it looking more attractive to the public. On the basis of tonight, it is hard to see that happening to the Conservatives this summer. |
To be fair to the candidates, they couldn’t answer the questions because the only solution to Brexit is no Brexit. | |
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