| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? 15:53 - Sep 30 with 9426 views | ingeminate |
So we have changed the manager, chairman and strategic direction. Who is responsible?
My guess is Fernandes wanted out and convinced Amit to take it on. There is no way Amit as a minority shareholder could have demanded it. However, it is not the world’s most desirable position so my guess is Amit wanted some stuff sorted before he would agree to take over.
Given the timeline my guess is Amit (alongside Tony/Ruben/Les) didn’t rate Holloway but aware of his popularity with some sections of the support didn’t want to come in and sack him. So Fernandes got rid first. Be interested to know who made the final call on McClaren.
Beyond that who has authorised brining in expensive loans at the expense of the younger players. Much was made of being a club with a gateway in to the first team. While Eze, Lumley and some others are good evidence of that the general treatment of younger players this season has been noticeably poorer.
Who has allowed McClaren to do this? Seems to fly in the face of everything Ferdinand has spoken about. Hoos while a pragmatist at heart always comes over as a long term planner.
So is it Amit, Fernandes, Ruben pushing for a change in direction or McClaren somehow convincing the board as a whole to rip their plans up and trust him ala Redknapp?
Goes without saying I’ve no idea, anyone know?
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| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 16:18 - Sep 30 with 7250 views | Hayesender |
Hang on, I'll ask Paul Smyth's mum  |  |
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| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 16:47 - Sep 30 with 7178 views | TacticalR |
In the absence of information we have to resort to Kremlinology. ingeminate's explanation is as good as any.
All I can see is that:
1) Fernandes has disappeared in a puff of smoke.
2) The board has changed its strategy without bothering to inform anybody. |  |
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| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 17:39 - Sep 30 with 7013 views | baz_qpr |
Not inside info, but it does not take a genius to see that the squad that started the season is probably the weakest for 10 years. They lost key players and experience both off the field and in the changing room. Betting the house on a few youngsters that have managed to effect a handful of games would be foolish |  | | |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 18:06 - Sep 30 with 6924 views | Lblock |
I’m all for bringing youth through but that’s not the key issue
For me it’s the knee jerk change of direction and shoehorning players out of position and refusing to change when clearly not working |  |
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| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 19:28 - Sep 30 with 6807 views | whittocksRs |
McClaren was a Tony Fernandes move. Amit had nothing to do with it, decision was made ages ago. |  | | |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 19:54 - Sep 30 with 6736 views | BrianMcCarthy |
I would say that very few people have any inside info, which is as it should be, and that those who do should keep the info inside, which is how it should be. |  |
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| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 20:39 - Sep 30 with 6665 views | CiderwithRsie |
You're suggesting where we are now is some sort of master plan. I doubt that.
Replacing Holloway with McClaren took place before Amit became Chairman - on the face of it that takes it less likely to be anything to do with Amit, you are having to work quite hard to say "aha, that must have been part of Amit's price".
The loans in have been perfectly sensible - we all knew we needed (a) replacements for Onuaha and Robinson (b) a proper goalscorer or two. Since most of the squad are young the replacements should ideally be experienced and due to FFP they had to be loans.
Ideally, once the players have been secured, team selection should be up to the coach.
None of this proves the Board have changed policy. And as someone (sorry, forgotten who) pointed out on another thread, "Holloway's youth policy" wasn't about filling the team with kids, players were loaned out for experience, selections were pragmatic until enough points had been ground out.
The problem is that players are being selected out of position and not on merit, and every time there's a bad result McClaren slags off the kids as an excuse for his own failings. He also seems to have lost the dressing room, and his substitutions are poor. None of that is a boardroom issue (other than whether or not he should be sacked for it.) | | | |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 21:03 - Sep 30 with 6615 views | PunteR |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 20:39 - Sep 30 by CiderwithRsie |
You're suggesting where we are now is some sort of master plan. I doubt that.
Replacing Holloway with McClaren took place before Amit became Chairman - on the face of it that takes it less likely to be anything to do with Amit, you are having to work quite hard to say "aha, that must have been part of Amit's price".
The loans in have been perfectly sensible - we all knew we needed (a) replacements for Onuaha and Robinson (b) a proper goalscorer or two. Since most of the squad are young the replacements should ideally be experienced and due to FFP they had to be loans.
Ideally, once the players have been secured, team selection should be up to the coach.
None of this proves the Board have changed policy. And as someone (sorry, forgotten who) pointed out on another thread, "Holloway's youth policy" wasn't about filling the team with kids, players were loaned out for experience, selections were pragmatic until enough points had been ground out.
The problem is that players are being selected out of position and not on merit, and every time there's a bad result McClaren slags off the kids as an excuse for his own failings. He also seems to have lost the dressing room, and his substitutions are poor. None of that is a boardroom issue (other than whether or not he should be sacked for it.) |
Hows that not a boardroom issue?.
You sign a manager to do one thing and he does the opposite and they let him do the opposite, surely thats a boardroom issue.? |  |
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| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 21:26 - Sep 30 with 6563 views | daveB |
I don't think there is anything major that has happened behind the scenes but players are not daft. They can see people being played out of position, people out of form playing regardless of how they perform and a lack of a plan B or changes made during games. They will have worked all summer on playing 4-3-3 and seen it abandoned after 4 games. When that happens players lose heart and confidence in a manager. |  | | |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 21:33 - Sep 30 with 6538 views | PunteR |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 21:26 - Sep 30 by daveB |
I don't think there is anything major that has happened behind the scenes but players are not daft. They can see people being played out of position, people out of form playing regardless of how they perform and a lack of a plan B or changes made during games. They will have worked all summer on playing 4-3-3 and seen it abandoned after 4 games. When that happens players lose heart and confidence in a manager. |
I think things are going on. Changing chairman, rumours of LF leaving, changing remit... | |
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| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 21:55 - Sep 30 with 6473 views | ingeminate |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 20:39 - Sep 30 by CiderwithRsie |
You're suggesting where we are now is some sort of master plan. I doubt that.
Replacing Holloway with McClaren took place before Amit became Chairman - on the face of it that takes it less likely to be anything to do with Amit, you are having to work quite hard to say "aha, that must have been part of Amit's price".
The loans in have been perfectly sensible - we all knew we needed (a) replacements for Onuaha and Robinson (b) a proper goalscorer or two. Since most of the squad are young the replacements should ideally be experienced and due to FFP they had to be loans.
Ideally, once the players have been secured, team selection should be up to the coach.
None of this proves the Board have changed policy. And as someone (sorry, forgotten who) pointed out on another thread, "Holloway's youth policy" wasn't about filling the team with kids, players were loaned out for experience, selections were pragmatic until enough points had been ground out.
The problem is that players are being selected out of position and not on merit, and every time there's a bad result McClaren slags off the kids as an excuse for his own failings. He also seems to have lost the dressing room, and his substitutions are poor. None of that is a boardroom issue (other than whether or not he should be sacked for it.) |
Well I have no idea, though not sure Amit wanting Ollie out is as much of a stretch as you make out. The alternative seems more implausible but who knows.
In terms of strategy i’m sure I read someone - poss Northern - say that McClaren pushed back against a Blackpool centre back based on not wanting to sign lower league players. It’s a bit of a puzzle as when he was appointed it was all about developing young players/rough diamonds.
I would say that is at odds with what the club has been publicly saying it is going to do moving forward and is a change if strategy.
Incidentally I get the need to bring in strikers, but by taking two it pushes out owned players in to playing out position and smacks of short term thinking. [Post edited 30 Sep 2018 21:56]
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| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 22:35 - Sep 30 with 6372 views | CiderwithRsie |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 21:55 - Sep 30 by ingeminate |
Well I have no idea, though not sure Amit wanting Ollie out is as much of a stretch as you make out. The alternative seems more implausible but who knows.
In terms of strategy i’m sure I read someone - poss Northern - say that McClaren pushed back against a Blackpool centre back based on not wanting to sign lower league players. It’s a bit of a puzzle as when he was appointed it was all about developing young players/rough diamonds.
I would say that is at odds with what the club has been publicly saying it is going to do moving forward and is a change if strategy.
Incidentally I get the need to bring in strikers, but by taking two it pushes out owned players in to playing out position and smacks of short term thinking. [Post edited 30 Sep 2018 21:56]
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I don't say that McClaren's approach is not against the previous strategy, I'm just saying I'm not convinced that it comes from the top.
Tilt is the Blackpool CB, he was trailed on here as a possible signing, and you're correct that Northern suggested that McClaren wouldn't have him because he was from League 1. But if that's true it suggest to me that the DoF was still following the original strategy and the pushback came from McClaren - therefore the problem is McClaren, not the Board. (Unless there was a Les/Steve showdown and the Board undermined Les.)
The lesson of Briatore was that the Board/Chairman should not be interfering with football matters. Amit saw that close up and put a stop to it, so I'd be surprised if he was now shoving his oar in, especially as the logic of dumping the previous strategy is that we're going to buy talent/experience - which we can't under FFP. (I'll believe McC doesn't understand that before I'll believe Hoos and Amit don't).
I've no inside info at all but my guess is that the Board strategy is unchanged, if only because it's the only one available, but McClaren has gone rogue; maybe he didn't properly understand it in the first place. 1st line of defence is DoF reading the riot act - if that doesn't work Les needs to go to the Board and say so and they'll have to take a view, but it's complicated by the lack of alternatives and cost of scaling him. | | | |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 22:44 - Sep 30 with 6351 views | CiderwithRsie |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 21:03 - Sep 30 by PunteR |
Hows that not a boardroom issue?.
You sign a manager to do one thing and he does the opposite and they let him do the opposite, surely thats a boardroom issue.? |
Of course the Coach's performance is a boardroom issue eventually, but it doesn't mean team selections, formations, substitutions and post-match interviews are Board issues from the start, let alone that if they are crap it's because the Board wanted it that way.
Board's job is to make sure the money's there, hire decent people, and let them get on with it. They hired Hoos to handle the off-the-pitch day-to-day stuff, Les to decide the overall football approach and transfers, McClaren to decide the on-the-pitch stuff..
Hoos is doing his stuff OK. Les is doing fine on the transfers IMO. The problem's on the pitch. IMO the reason lies with the bloke in charge, not some change of strategy by Amit. | | | |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 23:00 - Sep 30 with 6306 views | PunteR |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 22:44 - Sep 30 by CiderwithRsie |
Of course the Coach's performance is a boardroom issue eventually, but it doesn't mean team selections, formations, substitutions and post-match interviews are Board issues from the start, let alone that if they are crap it's because the Board wanted it that way.
Board's job is to make sure the money's there, hire decent people, and let them get on with it. They hired Hoos to handle the off-the-pitch day-to-day stuff, Les to decide the overall football approach and transfers, McClaren to decide the on-the-pitch stuff..
Hoos is doing his stuff OK. Les is doing fine on the transfers IMO. The problem's on the pitch. IMO the reason lies with the bloke in charge, not some change of strategy by Amit. |
But you could argue that the problems on the pitch is a direct result of those things, dropping youngsters, loan signings etc. You could also argue that sacking Ollie might have effected some of the players. It could have unsettled them.
How the boardroom acts filters down. | |
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| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 23:29 - Sep 30 with 6255 views | CiderwithRsie |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 23:00 - Sep 30 by PunteR |
But you could argue that the problems on the pitch is a direct result of those things, dropping youngsters, loan signings etc. You could also argue that sacking Ollie might have effected some of the players. It could have unsettled them.
How the boardroom acts filters down. |
Dropping players and loan signings aren't Board activities (or bloody well shouldn't be)
Team selections are for the Coach. Loan signings are for the DoF (and subject to the FFP ban on transfers.)
Sacking Ollie might have settled some players, but all clubs sack managers all the time. (A quick google says that in 2015 average tenure of an English football manager was 1.23 years, and the Championship was the worst. QPR average about 2 managers per year over the last 10 years; Holloway did 1 year and 323 days.)
Sacking the Coach if he's crap and ignores the club strategy; now that's a Board activity. | | | |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 23:42 - Sep 30 with 6235 views | daveB |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 21:33 - Sep 30 by PunteR |
I think things are going on. Changing chairman, rumours of LF leaving, changing remit... |
That shouldn't affect the team though, i think the problems with the team are self inflicted by the manager but can easily be fixed in the coming weeks | | | |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? (n/t) on 00:03 - Oct 1 with 6202 views | PunteR |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 23:42 - Sep 30 by daveB |
That shouldn't affect the team though, i think the problems with the team are self inflicted by the manager but can easily be fixed in the coming weeks |
But isnt this the problem we've got at the club? New managers dont seem to make much difference. The problems we have stem from the top imo. [Post edited 1 Oct 2018 0:05]
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| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 02:12 - Oct 1 with 6112 views | timcocking |
Sadly, it all seems clear enough.
Ollie did his best to make his position untenable last year the way he was behaving and the things he was saying. It did appear as if he was having a hard time coping at times. No criticism of him meant their, life can be hard sometimes, we all have our crosses to bear. So i can understand why the board were wary having Ian around any longer.
Steve McClaren because hed literally done this job before and done it well. On reputation, he seemed a good fit and a sensible choice.
The big mistake was not understanding it was absolutely pivotal in such a young squad not to release Chief and Robbo and Smithies. By doing so, we swiftly lost 4 from 4 and they all panicked completely (no surprise we were the worst in over a century) and subsequently ripped everything up and flooded the squad with ageing loanees, therefore losing all credibility and half of the dressing room immediately.
Which is exactly what we do every year. Frustrating, yes, but all so very predictable. Thus far, it is exactly what we thought would probably happen. |  | | |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 06:24 - Oct 1 with 6016 views | distortR |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 21:33 - Sep 30 by PunteR |
I think things are going on. Changing chairman, rumours of LF leaving, changing remit... |
i'm confused. So we changed remit for amit? Are they brothers? I think we should be told. [Post edited 1 Oct 2018 6:27]
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| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 06:33 - Oct 1 with 6003 views | distortR |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 19:54 - Sep 30 by BrianMcCarthy |
I would say that very few people have any inside info, which is as it should be, and that those who do should keep the info inside, which is how it should be. |
I'm not sure I agree, Brian.
If you view QPR as a community entity, surely the members, the paying fans, have a right to know the broad objectives of the club, and how they intend to achieve those objectives? Would hardly compromise commercial confidentiality if you believe in that, which I'm not sure i do after seeing the way the iom government uses it as a way of halting FoI requests.
Publish and be damned! | | | |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 08:14 - Oct 1 with 5889 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 06:33 - Oct 1 by distortR |
I'm not sure I agree, Brian.
If you view QPR as a community entity, surely the members, the paying fans, have a right to know the broad objectives of the club, and how they intend to achieve those objectives? Would hardly compromise commercial confidentiality if you believe in that, which I'm not sure i do after seeing the way the iom government uses it as a way of halting FoI requests.
Publish and be damned! |
I think I used to believe that, but not anymore.
The problem is that we as fans will only ever get rumours and half-truths and then we tend to join the dots and two plus two equals six. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing and all that.
I'm happy not knowing. I have no idea why Player X didn't start ahead of Washington more last year, but that's ok - maybe Player X was training poorly, had a poor attitude or was out of form for personal reasons. There's stuff that management know that fans don't, and that's the way it should be.
When it comes to the running of the club off the field I feel that Ferdinand and Hoos have been very forthcoming and I feel suitably informed. I really have no complaints. The only thing we don't know is who has picked the last few managers and even at that we are all fairly sure that it was Fernandes. Whet we don't know is whether that's ok with Ferdinand and Hoos - maybe it is, maybe it isn't, maybe it's exactly what they were told would happen when they joined. Again, we don't know, and I for one can accept that.
Personally, I've found this season disappointing so far. As DaveB points out we have the same points per game as last year, but the decision to loan out Manning was a surprise to me and a few more of our players seem out of sorts and all seems to be slightly off-kilter on the playing side. For all that, though, I don't want any more information from behind the scenes. I learn enough on here from you all. I'm looking forward to seeing HQ for the Derby game and whatever happens I'll still go home happy, trusting in Ferdinand and Hoos to continue their good work and proud as ever to be a Ranger.
The rest will sort itself out. | |
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| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 09:18 - Oct 1 with 5774 views | TacticalR |
You can tell BrianMcCarthy has just returned from a period of contemplation on a distant mountain. It's Zen and the art of being a football supporter. | |
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| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 09:58 - Oct 1 with 5682 views | francisbowles |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 02:12 - Oct 1 by timcocking |
Sadly, it all seems clear enough.
Ollie did his best to make his position untenable last year the way he was behaving and the things he was saying. It did appear as if he was having a hard time coping at times. No criticism of him meant their, life can be hard sometimes, we all have our crosses to bear. So i can understand why the board were wary having Ian around any longer.
Steve McClaren because hed literally done this job before and done it well. On reputation, he seemed a good fit and a sensible choice.
The big mistake was not understanding it was absolutely pivotal in such a young squad not to release Chief and Robbo and Smithies. By doing so, we swiftly lost 4 from 4 and they all panicked completely (no surprise we were the worst in over a century) and subsequently ripped everything up and flooded the squad with ageing loanees, therefore losing all credibility and half of the dressing room immediately.
Which is exactly what we do every year. Frustrating, yes, but all so very predictable. Thus far, it is exactly what we thought would probably happen. |
Sensible post but we didn't release Ned and Robbo. They were out of contract and therefore free to leave. We are told they were made an offer and refused it. So out of the club's control. | | | |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 10:46 - Oct 1 with 5605 views | superhoopdownunder |
The owners - do they bother going to watch us anymore?
Tony? Ruben? Amit?
I think Amit may have been at a few games recently. | | | |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 11:35 - Oct 1 with 5503 views | davman |
| What happened behind the scenes - any inside info?? on 20:39 - Sep 30 by CiderwithRsie |
You're suggesting where we are now is some sort of master plan. I doubt that.
Replacing Holloway with McClaren took place before Amit became Chairman - on the face of it that takes it less likely to be anything to do with Amit, you are having to work quite hard to say "aha, that must have been part of Amit's price".
The loans in have been perfectly sensible - we all knew we needed (a) replacements for Onuaha and Robinson (b) a proper goalscorer or two. Since most of the squad are young the replacements should ideally be experienced and due to FFP they had to be loans.
Ideally, once the players have been secured, team selection should be up to the coach.
None of this proves the Board have changed policy. And as someone (sorry, forgotten who) pointed out on another thread, "Holloway's youth policy" wasn't about filling the team with kids, players were loaned out for experience, selections were pragmatic until enough points had been ground out.
The problem is that players are being selected out of position and not on merit, and every time there's a bad result McClaren slags off the kids as an excuse for his own failings. He also seems to have lost the dressing room, and his substitutions are poor. None of that is a boardroom issue (other than whether or not he should be sacked for it.) |
Not a criticism, but remind me how the loans were sensible as (to my knowledge anyway) not one of them replaced Robinson or Onouha? I am horrified by the Centre Backs we are able to put out at the moment as first choice and don't get me started on the back ups to them along with what we have as cover at Left Back.
Not Bidwell's greatest fan (although I do think he's alright), but letting Manning go (who can play there) leaving us with Nico H is a dreadful move. If Bidwell gets injured, we are royally screwed down that side of the pitch.
Horrible, depressing mess... |  |
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