| Clydach murders on 16:33 - Oct 25 with 2167 views | Brian_Laudrup |
| Clydach murders on 00:36 - Oct 25 by exhmrc1 |
They said approximately 11.30 that could be out. How long it takes one person to walk is different to another. His girlfriend reckons he was home at that time but he reckons he walked along a road with no pavement away from the general direction people would be going that time of night. Nobody sees him. Nobody saw him without the chain on the Saturday but people did on the Sunday. Yet according to him it was left there on the Friday when he had sex after years of denying it was his chain and getting someone to buy another one for him. At the time he was supposedly having sex with Mandy there is evidence he was making a phone call from his house to his girlfriend. This was brought up well after the whole family had been buried. [Post edited 25 Oct 2020 0:40]
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its really hard to read your posts, can you try sentences and paragraphs? |  | |  |
| Clydach murders on 17:25 - Oct 25 with 2124 views | Whiterockin |
| Clydach murders on 14:43 - Oct 25 by exhmrc1 |
I respect anyone's right to an opinion but I would expect those like yourself to look at everything and not focus on something. The TV programme was biased. It showed a one sided opinion as did the book. It didnt for example show why the woman wasnt used in the second trial. From Mandy's sisters statement it is clear she was shown as an unreliable witness so the defence rightly didnt put her up the second time. Some bloke is dragged up 20 years later without any real questioning. It didnt mention a woman claimed to have see Morris or someone like him near the scene. It didnt mention his version has no support. It didnt challenge his claim to have had sex when the phone records showed he was at home.
Sadly many blame the Police as it was one of theirs involved. No doubt the behaviour of the Inspector has fuelled some's belief and the way they were originally questioned was a major police error.
However the bottom line is whether Morris committed the murders not whether the Lewis family did and those that saw his evidence were totally convinced as 2 guilty verdicts prove .
There is much you and I dont know. The fact he claimed never to be upstairs in the house but his chain was found there being just one example. You keep saying there was no motive but there clearly was. You go on about DNA. Forensic scientist were questioned by defence and prosecution as were other witnesses. It was a 11 week trial far longer than most others. |
"However the bottom line is whether Morris committed the murders not whether the Lewis family did and those that saw his evidence were totally convinced as 2 guilty verdicts prove"
With respect, as I have said before if not all the evidence was presented in court you can not accept the juries decision. Because that was based on the evidence provided.
Have you not thought that if all the evidence was provided and Morris was not guilty, the Lewis family may not be guilty and the police could actually re open the case and find who really did it.
DNA has moved on significantly over the last 20 years and there may be better evidence stored. After all the Llandarcy murderer was named 30 years after the event.
As I have said before he may have done it, but without a jury seeing all the evidence there will always be doubt. |  | | |
| Clydach murders on 17:46 - Oct 25 with 2101 views | Flashberryjack |
| Clydach murders on 17:25 - Oct 25 by Whiterockin |
"However the bottom line is whether Morris committed the murders not whether the Lewis family did and those that saw his evidence were totally convinced as 2 guilty verdicts prove"
With respect, as I have said before if not all the evidence was presented in court you can not accept the juries decision. Because that was based on the evidence provided.
Have you not thought that if all the evidence was provided and Morris was not guilty, the Lewis family may not be guilty and the police could actually re open the case and find who really did it.
DNA has moved on significantly over the last 20 years and there may be better evidence stored. After all the Llandarcy murderer was named 30 years after the event.
As I have said before he may have done it, but without a jury seeing all the evidence there will always be doubt. |
I'm sure there would have been inadmissible evidence from both sides, but I'm fairly sure if it had all been allowed, we wouldn't be having this debate now, and Morris would remain rotting in prison for the rest of his natural. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 17:57 - Oct 25 with 2086 views | Whiterockin |
| Clydach murders on 17:46 - Oct 25 by Flashberryjack |
I'm sure there would have been inadmissible evidence from both sides, but I'm fairly sure if it had all been allowed, we wouldn't be having this debate now, and Morris would remain rotting in prison for the rest of his natural. |
Quite possibly. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 18:04 - Oct 25 with 2080 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 17:25 - Oct 25 by Whiterockin |
"However the bottom line is whether Morris committed the murders not whether the Lewis family did and those that saw his evidence were totally convinced as 2 guilty verdicts prove"
With respect, as I have said before if not all the evidence was presented in court you can not accept the juries decision. Because that was based on the evidence provided.
Have you not thought that if all the evidence was provided and Morris was not guilty, the Lewis family may not be guilty and the police could actually re open the case and find who really did it.
DNA has moved on significantly over the last 20 years and there may be better evidence stored. After all the Llandarcy murderer was named 30 years after the event.
As I have said before he may have done it, but without a jury seeing all the evidence there will always be doubt. |
Good post |  |
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| Clydach murders on 18:58 - Oct 25 with 2043 views | theloneranger |
| Clydach murders on 16:31 - Oct 25 by Brian_Laudrup |
Oh shut up Gary, it doesn't make you a forensics specilalist, love how phet made him wipe all his DNA off the chain bar his. |
The only things found on the chain were Amanda Power's blood and flecks of paint from Morris's kitchen units!!
There was no DNA from Morris found on the chain!! |  |
| Everyday above ground ... Is a good day! 😎 |
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| Clydach murders on 20:22 - Oct 25 with 1991 views | Garyjack |
| Clydach murders on 16:31 - Oct 25 by Brian_Laudrup |
Oh shut up Gary, it doesn't make you a forensics specilalist, love how phet made him wipe all his DNA off the chain bar his. |
Did i say it did? I was merely pointing out that 'not fitting the profile' as stated by the psychologist in the programme as he was high on drink and drugs can be quite misleading. |  | | |
| Clydach murders on 09:39 - Oct 27 with 2007 views | whiterock |
John Alan was a well known car thief and would almost certainly have moved in the same circles as Morris, he would have been near 40 at the time of the murders and would not have been up the mountain smoking weed with teenagers, like some suggest. [Post edited 27 Oct 2020 9:46]
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| Clydach murders on 09:41 - Oct 27 with 2005 views | whiterock |
I can't believe i am writing this today 21yrs after losing our Mam, sister Mandy and nieces Katie and Emily. What our family and children have gone through and are still going through has been horrendous. We all love and miss our family so much, and there's never a day goes by when we dont think of them and wish with all our hearts they were still here with us. We have always said and continue to say that there is or never has been any doubt whatsoever that the person who committed these cruel murders was David George Morris .
Throughout both trials we all sat in that court room every single day listening to the horrific injuries and suffering our family endured that night and what they went through will stay with us forever. We heard every bit of evidence against Morris and all the lies he said in court, claiming he was having an affair with my sister is untrue, Mandy was scared of him and use to call him a psycho. He said he met her on the friday morning and went to her house and thats when he left his chain there, this was a total lie because there were witnesses and phone records showing Morris was in his flat and made calls to his partner proving he was nowhere near Mandy's home.
Morris's campaigners claim the E FIT wasnt made public ?? It was in the South Wales Evening post June 29th 2002 !!! The witness who done the E fit and picked out one of the Police officers, said she had never seen him before and yet she went to the same gym as him !!
This along with other evidence and lies was heard by 2 court Judges and 24 jurors and after listening to it all, the right verdict was given in both trials and that was David George Morris was GUILTY.
Morris's supporters claim there to be new evidence, where is this new evidence ??? Three times The Criminal Cases Review Commission has gone through this case. We can't believe that there are still people out there that believe everything they've read in a book, especially as that book was written by someone who didnt attend court or even know Morris, and to claim that he is innocent and to portray him as just a normal 'Jack the lad' couldn't be further from the truth. We are a very close and strong family but No family should ever go through and continue to go through what we have.
During these last few years we have lost our sister Sandra, our brother Robert and our brother in law Ken and it has left us all totally devastated , but i hope they are looking down on us today and see that we will never ever give up fighting for our beautiful Mam, Mandy, Katie and Emily and to continue to make sure DAVID GEORGE MORRIS will never ever be released . | | | |
| Clydach murders on 11:13 - Oct 27 with 1946 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 09:39 - Oct 27 by whiterock |
John Alan was a well known car thief and would almost certainly have moved in the same circles as Morris, he would have been near 40 at the time of the murders and would not have been up the mountain smoking weed with teenagers, like some suggest. [Post edited 27 Oct 2020 9:46]
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I used to manage a youth rugby team. Was very close to some of the players then and still am. They used to talk about the mushies and said you should try them but none of them ever mentioned going up the mountain. There were plenty of other places to take whatever kids used.
It just seems so unlikely that any experienced cop would be walking home after 4 murders. Surely cops would have used a getaway car parked close. The same with walking up from one of the busiest roads in Clydach.
What you have posted from Mandy's sister I posted previously. It is quite clear the family along with the jurors are certain of his guilt.
A few days after the first trial I was in St Helens watching Glamorgan. I went to lunch with 2 people. One was a long standing Evening Post Journalist and the other the father of a girl who had covered the trial for the BBC. The girls father was saying his daughter and the senior BBC reporter were both convinced of Morris guilt. The senior reporter had turned to his daughter whilst awaiting the verdict and said to her I dont know how I am going to be able to announce this if there is a not guilty verdict. He is so clearly guilty. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 12:02 - Oct 27 with 1922 views | whiterock |
| Clydach murders on 11:13 - Oct 27 by exhmrc1 |
I used to manage a youth rugby team. Was very close to some of the players then and still am. They used to talk about the mushies and said you should try them but none of them ever mentioned going up the mountain. There were plenty of other places to take whatever kids used.
It just seems so unlikely that any experienced cop would be walking home after 4 murders. Surely cops would have used a getaway car parked close. The same with walking up from one of the busiest roads in Clydach.
What you have posted from Mandy's sister I posted previously. It is quite clear the family along with the jurors are certain of his guilt.
A few days after the first trial I was in St Helens watching Glamorgan. I went to lunch with 2 people. One was a long standing Evening Post Journalist and the other the father of a girl who had covered the trial for the BBC. The girls father was saying his daughter and the senior BBC reporter were both convinced of Morris guilt. The senior reporter had turned to his daughter whilst awaiting the verdict and said to her I dont know how I am going to be able to announce this if there is a not guilty verdict. He is so clearly guilty. |
I think people need to look at the Wassell case a bit more, what really happened? | | | |
| Clydach murders on 12:27 - Oct 27 with 1894 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 12:02 - Oct 27 by whiterock |
I think people need to look at the Wassell case a bit more, what really happened? |
I dont know what you know about the Wassell's. They are a large group of brothers. I think there are 7 of them in total. Often involved with the police.
There was another incident with Morris I believe involved a woman in a car which I think he went down for a few years before. The fact people refused to testify in the Wassell case indicates what people think outside of this case.
People say there is no motive. If Morris believed his girlfriend was having a gay affair with Mandy or she had been trying to get her to leave him. He certainly resented the 2 girls friendship.
It is known Mandy feared and intensely disliked Morris yet you have some on here who suggest she was having an affair with him something the family and her friends say would never have happened in a million years. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 12:32 - Oct 27 with 1888 views | angryjack |
| Clydach murders on 12:27 - Oct 27 by exhmrc1 |
I dont know what you know about the Wassell's. They are a large group of brothers. I think there are 7 of them in total. Often involved with the police.
There was another incident with Morris I believe involved a woman in a car which I think he went down for a few years before. The fact people refused to testify in the Wassell case indicates what people think outside of this case.
People say there is no motive. If Morris believed his girlfriend was having a gay affair with Mandy or she had been trying to get her to leave him. He certainly resented the 2 girls friendship.
It is known Mandy feared and intensely disliked Morris yet you have some on here who suggest she was having an affair with him something the family and her friends say would never have happened in a million years. |
IF MY AUNTIE HAD BALLS SHE BE MY UNCLE..you assuming things all time..the pigs held evidence back to cover their own...SWP corrupt | | | |
| Clydach murders on 12:38 - Oct 27 with 1884 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 12:32 - Oct 27 by angryjack |
IF MY AUNTIE HAD BALLS SHE BE MY UNCLE..you assuming things all time..the pigs held evidence back to cover their own...SWP corrupt |
So they put the case forward against 3 of their colleagues which the higher echelons of the Crown Prosecution rejected because they were trying to protect their own.
They advised the press they had arrested 3 coppers because they were trying to protect their own.
It is because of their stupid actions above that has created the kind of doubt people had in this case. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 12:48 - Oct 27 with 1875 views | theloneranger |
| Clydach murders on 12:32 - Oct 27 by angryjack |
IF MY AUNTIE HAD BALLS SHE BE MY UNCLE..you assuming things all time..the pigs held evidence back to cover their own...SWP corrupt |
If you believe that the SWP are protecting their own ....
Then WHY did the Lewis brothers with their then solicitor David Hutchinson ( also would become the solicitor to Morris) make formal complaints against 18 police officers of all ranks from constable to Detective Superintendent. They also made a complaint against the Chief Constable of South Wales!!
These complaints included perjury, attempting to pervert the course of justice, wrongful arrest, disclosure of confidential information, inappropriate disclosure of sensitive information, etc.
This doesn't seem a very sensible action to take if you know that the SWP are in your corner and protecting you!! | |
| Everyday above ground ... Is a good day! 😎 |
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| Clydach murders on 13:00 - Oct 27 with 1868 views | Highjack |
| Clydach murders on 12:27 - Oct 27 by exhmrc1 |
I dont know what you know about the Wassell's. They are a large group of brothers. I think there are 7 of them in total. Often involved with the police.
There was another incident with Morris I believe involved a woman in a car which I think he went down for a few years before. The fact people refused to testify in the Wassell case indicates what people think outside of this case.
People say there is no motive. If Morris believed his girlfriend was having a gay affair with Mandy or she had been trying to get her to leave him. He certainly resented the 2 girls friendship.
It is known Mandy feared and intensely disliked Morris yet you have some on here who suggest she was having an affair with him something the family and her friends say would never have happened in a million years. |
Talking about motive, it was striking to me that the killer was apparently down on his hands and knees at one point going through all the videotapes as if he were looking for something. This was presumably after the killing because he had blood on his hands. The generally accepted motive was that Morris was angry because she had refused his sexual advances, but if that’s the case why has he spent so much time in the house afterwards looking through the videotapes? There’s clearly something there that he wants. My first thought was maybe a sex tape or something incriminating. And when he couldn’t find it he set the fires to ensure if it were still in the house it would be destroyed. Either way the documentary didn’t explain this very well. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 13:10 - Oct 27 with 1856 views | Andy1300 |
| Clydach murders on 13:29 - Oct 25 by trampie |
That is the whole point Perch, he might have done it, he might not, but he was convicted, should he have been convicted beyond reasonable doubt, that is why the fuss. |
Exactly! |  |
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| Clydach murders on 13:18 - Oct 27 with 1848 views | Andy1300 |
| Clydach murders on 13:00 - Oct 27 by Highjack |
Talking about motive, it was striking to me that the killer was apparently down on his hands and knees at one point going through all the videotapes as if he were looking for something. This was presumably after the killing because he had blood on his hands. The generally accepted motive was that Morris was angry because she had refused his sexual advances, but if that’s the case why has he spent so much time in the house afterwards looking through the videotapes? There’s clearly something there that he wants. My first thought was maybe a sex tape or something incriminating. And when he couldn’t find it he set the fires to ensure if it were still in the house it would be destroyed. Either way the documentary didn’t explain this very well. |
But the expert categorically said the hand print on the carpet could not be Dai’s | |
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| Clydach murders on 13:43 - Oct 27 with 1836 views | whiterock |
| Clydach murders on 12:48 - Oct 27 by theloneranger |
If you believe that the SWP are protecting their own ....
Then WHY did the Lewis brothers with their then solicitor David Hutchinson ( also would become the solicitor to Morris) make formal complaints against 18 police officers of all ranks from constable to Detective Superintendent. They also made a complaint against the Chief Constable of South Wales!!
These complaints included perjury, attempting to pervert the course of justice, wrongful arrest, disclosure of confidential information, inappropriate disclosure of sensitive information, etc.
This doesn't seem a very sensible action to take if you know that the SWP are in your corner and protecting you!! |
Agree with this and as been said before, there are always rotten apples in any organisation, but a whole police force, I think not, think about it, you might cover for your mate if he has cocked up in work but 4 brutal murders? No way.
21 years have past, 100's of police involved and not one of them has said anything, that kind of secret doesn't stay buried. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 13:53 - Oct 27 with 1832 views | angryjack |
| Clydach murders on 13:43 - Oct 27 by whiterock |
Agree with this and as been said before, there are always rotten apples in any organisation, but a whole police force, I think not, think about it, you might cover for your mate if he has cocked up in work but 4 brutal murders? No way.
21 years have past, 100's of police involved and not one of them has said anything, that kind of secret doesn't stay buried. |
Why was evidence that could incriminate them be held back.by the police | | | |
| Clydach murders on 14:13 - Oct 27 with 1810 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 13:00 - Oct 27 by Highjack |
Talking about motive, it was striking to me that the killer was apparently down on his hands and knees at one point going through all the videotapes as if he were looking for something. This was presumably after the killing because he had blood on his hands. The generally accepted motive was that Morris was angry because she had refused his sexual advances, but if that’s the case why has he spent so much time in the house afterwards looking through the videotapes? There’s clearly something there that he wants. My first thought was maybe a sex tape or something incriminating. And when he couldn’t find it he set the fires to ensure if it were still in the house it would be destroyed. Either way the documentary didn’t explain this very well. |
That was my thought as well after watching the programme, they did not make much play of it but I thought exactly the same as you. | |
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| Clydach murders on 14:14 - Oct 27 with 1815 views | Highjack |
| Clydach murders on 13:18 - Oct 27 by Andy1300 |
But the expert categorically said the hand print on the carpet could not be Dai’s |
The expert getting paid by the defence said that. The expert getting paid by the prosecution said it was definitely his. Bloody experts ey? | |
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| Clydach murders on 14:31 - Oct 27 with 1796 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 13:43 - Oct 27 by whiterock |
Agree with this and as been said before, there are always rotten apples in any organisation, but a whole police force, I think not, think about it, you might cover for your mate if he has cocked up in work but 4 brutal murders? No way.
21 years have past, 100's of police involved and not one of them has said anything, that kind of secret doesn't stay buried. |
I really dont buy into this belief about sex. Why would anyone kill someones mother if you wanted to have sex with the daughter. Surely no woman would want sex with someone who had already killed their mother. It is obvious all were killed because they knew the murderer who went there to kill Mandy not to have sex with her. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 14:36 - Oct 27 with 1787 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 14:31 - Oct 27 by exhmrc1 |
I really dont buy into this belief about sex. Why would anyone kill someones mother if you wanted to have sex with the daughter. Surely no woman would want sex with someone who had already killed their mother. It is obvious all were killed because they knew the murderer who went there to kill Mandy not to have sex with her. |
Was it the prosecution case that he went there to have sex with Mandy ? | |
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| Clydach murders on 14:56 - Oct 27 with 1771 views | Highjack |
| Clydach murders on 14:31 - Oct 27 by exhmrc1 |
I really dont buy into this belief about sex. Why would anyone kill someones mother if you wanted to have sex with the daughter. Surely no woman would want sex with someone who had already killed their mother. It is obvious all were killed because they knew the murderer who went there to kill Mandy not to have sex with her. |
That person was looking for something. Why else would you be on your hands and knees rifling through old videotapes covered in blood after killing four people? The documentary just glossed over this but it seems potentially very important to me. | |
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