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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 13:17 - Jul 30 by Brynmill_Jack
I know the risk was a lot less (money wise) but DeGuzman and Michu were untried in the PL. That didn't work out too badly did it? In fact neither had a good a season behind them coming to the Swans as Viera and Mesa. The reason the risk is higher is that the transfer market has gone bezerk. That's how we got ten million for Jack Cork. We've virtually swapped Cork for a better player in Mesa and are about to replace GS with someone just over half of his price. I think people should come down off their high horses and trust Clement. If he wants him that's good enough for me
are we about to replace him then?
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 13:29 - Jul 30 with 3663 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 12:40 - Jul 30 by clement
but he was young, so lots of resale value!
oh wait, he's not worth what we paid?
but he's young...resale value...27 year olds....
I dont think anyone is condoning signing people because they are young, clearly there is a stipulatioj that they are one of Europes best players too. Is borja that? Or is he just an awful signing. That argument defies logic.
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 12:14 - Jul 30 by jack247
Between this and the Tammy thread, you seem to be insinuating you would be happy with Chadli and Tammy in place of Gylfi and Llorente. I'm sorry, but as good as Tammy may very well turn out to be and as much resale profit as we could potentially make, that's way too much of a gamble for me.
I would be happy with Chadli and Tammy. No more a gamble than signing Viera and some other striker from abroad that we will no doubt make. And am positive when it comes to replacing Tammy come age 22/23 we would have the luxury of another £40m to replace him with. He is better than anyone we can bring in if you ask me.
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:34 - Jul 30 by Brynmill_Jack
So if he comes here and his contribution helps win us a cup and get into Europe again would that be a poor return as an investment?
And you seem to think that once we pay £25 million for him his value would be worthless??? Do you think at 30 or 31 he wouldn't command a fee? Even if we only sold him for 10 million to a rich championship club if he contributes to three good seasons where we win something, get into Europe and the profile of the club is further enhanced would a loss of 15 million pounds not be cushioned by that? If the club is doing well these talented foreign youngsters you speak of in Europe would be far more likely to come here that a club just avoids relegation which is what we've only just done. The phrase is "speculate to accumulate" - and with the club making a one off outlay of this sort it is a balanced risk. It's not like we're throwing money at every Tom Dick and Harry is it?
Quite simply I dont think the signing of Jonathan Viera will break us into the top 6 or win a cup. I think you would find the odds of that pretty damned high. Its about risk to reward ratio. The chances of that happening offset against a £28m outlay on a player with a checkered history. That argument can be trotted out for anyone. When we signed Borja you could say to the people who are slating the deal "but if we win a cup or break into the top 6 coz of him then he will be worth it, so lets sign him". The chances of us doing that against not doing it are very much not in our favour... Yet you want to risk £28m on it? Not for me.
For your second point, if you think we will get £10m for him then that is what we will have to reolace him with. It means it is a guaranteed way to take away £18m of value from your team. You want to replace a £28m player with £10m and expect to improve? Thats why this would be a short term plan that will negatively affect the long term. It is taking money out of our side by buying at peak.
But this is futile as I dont believe for one second we would do it anyway. This article was from 2 weeks ago.
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:51 - Jul 29 by E20Jack
Re-sale is not nonsense in the slightest, it is the cornerstone of our whole transfer life to this point and will continue to be so, of which without we would almost certainly be a Championship club - or saddled with enormous, almost insurmountable, debt.
We most certainly will not be getting 30 million euros back for him as a 30+ year old. If you want to recoup the outlay as a minimum, then we would need to be getting rid of him at 28/29. So a season and a half with us - is that really worth the 30 million euro risk? not for me it isn't, and hopefully not for anyone at the club.
Our fans need to get real and understand our position financially in the league we find ourselves. Having a good season most certainly does not hinge on us signing Jonathan Viera (signed for £700k season before last) for 30m euros, of that I assure you.
[Post edited 29 Jul 2017 22:55]
E20, I honestly don't understand your fixation on Viera here, it really doesn't make any sense. Serious question: have you ever seen the guy play before? If you have, you would know his quality and skills, and understand why we'd be interested in him. If you haven't, here's a few concise breakdowns of his talent:
He's not a one-season wonder in the slightest either, as you and others have said in this thread repeatedly. He's played superbly the past two years for Las Palmas, and had plenty of success before then. Check out this scouting report from four seasons ago if you don't believe me:
It makes little difference whether we sign him at €30m or not in terms of his re-sale value. Given the way the market has been this summer and the likelihood it will only be increasing from this point on, there is every reason to believe we will get back most of what we invest in Viera when we sell him. This isn't a Borja II scenario here, Viera has clear, exceptional talent and has produced at the highest level. It is far more likely we will make a profit when we sell him than a loss.
You can have a difference in opinion, but if you care about this transfer this much you should at least watch the guy first. You clearly haven't, and it shows in your posts. There are plenty of Las Palmas games online, check them out. Viera is about as perfect of a Siggy replacement as possible, already has a great relationship with Mesa, and would cost considerably less in wages than anyone else near his ability.
It's a no-brainer for me if/when Siggy (imminently) leaves. Save the hoodoo financial talk for another thread, Viera is class. If we bring him in, it would be a fantastic signing. End of.
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 00:03 - Jul 31 with 2924 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:53 - Jul 30 by Nirvana
E20, I honestly don't understand your fixation on Viera here, it really doesn't make any sense. Serious question: have you ever seen the guy play before? If you have, you would know his quality and skills, and understand why we'd be interested in him. If you haven't, here's a few concise breakdowns of his talent:
He's not a one-season wonder in the slightest either, as you and others have said in this thread repeatedly. He's played superbly the past two years for Las Palmas, and had plenty of success before then. Check out this scouting report from four seasons ago if you don't believe me:
It makes little difference whether we sign him at €30m or not in terms of his re-sale value. Given the way the market has been this summer and the likelihood it will only be increasing from this point on, there is every reason to believe we will get back most of what we invest in Viera when we sell him. This isn't a Borja II scenario here, Viera has clear, exceptional talent and has produced at the highest level. It is far more likely we will make a profit when we sell him than a loss.
You can have a difference in opinion, but if you care about this transfer this much you should at least watch the guy first. You clearly haven't, and it shows in your posts. There are plenty of Las Palmas games online, check them out. Viera is about as perfect of a Siggy replacement as possible, already has a great relationship with Mesa, and would cost considerably less in wages than anyone else near his ability.
It's a no-brainer for me if/when Siggy (imminently) leaves. Save the hoodoo financial talk for another thread, Viera is class. If we bring him in, it would be a fantastic signing. End of.
One of your links is titled "5 bargain playmakers for clubs on a budget". 25m euros is hardly on a budget so I'm sure the blog writer would change his tack if he knew how much Las Palmas wanted for him
The 2nd link is an article about his movement in ONE match! That's taking the whole "but he's good on Youtube clips" to a whole other level
I took this from the 3rd article - remember this is the guy some want to be replacing Gylfi....
"If you exclude Viera's three penalties (two vs. Real and one against Real Sociedad; had a penalty saved by Atleti's Chelsea loanee Thibaut Courtois), Viera has scored two goals from 44 shots in league play, meaning he takes 22 shots per goal.
His current shots per goal (9.4) is inefficient, and his adjusted shots per goal (minus penalties) balloons to 22"
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:53 - Jul 30 by Nirvana
E20, I honestly don't understand your fixation on Viera here, it really doesn't make any sense. Serious question: have you ever seen the guy play before? If you have, you would know his quality and skills, and understand why we'd be interested in him. If you haven't, here's a few concise breakdowns of his talent:
He's not a one-season wonder in the slightest either, as you and others have said in this thread repeatedly. He's played superbly the past two years for Las Palmas, and had plenty of success before then. Check out this scouting report from four seasons ago if you don't believe me:
It makes little difference whether we sign him at €30m or not in terms of his re-sale value. Given the way the market has been this summer and the likelihood it will only be increasing from this point on, there is every reason to believe we will get back most of what we invest in Viera when we sell him. This isn't a Borja II scenario here, Viera has clear, exceptional talent and has produced at the highest level. It is far more likely we will make a profit when we sell him than a loss.
You can have a difference in opinion, but if you care about this transfer this much you should at least watch the guy first. You clearly haven't, and it shows in your posts. There are plenty of Las Palmas games online, check them out. Viera is about as perfect of a Siggy replacement as possible, already has a great relationship with Mesa, and would cost considerably less in wages than anyone else near his ability.
It's a no-brainer for me if/when Siggy (imminently) leaves. Save the hoodoo financial talk for another thread, Viera is class. If we bring him in, it would be a fantastic signing. End of.
I told you so E20. But you wouldn't let it lie .......
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 00:09 - Jul 31 with 2894 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:01 - Jul 30 by E20Jack
Similarly I am not a scout, but my common sense tells me that with a budget of £30m for a midfield player and a whole planet to choose from, our best option will not be a midfielder that has had very few good seasons in his career that just happens to be from a club we just signed another player from. It seems rushed, short term thinking and lazy to me.
Rafinha is 25 a Brazilian international and wants to leave Barca in order to get games, Ryan Boudabouz is 26 and much more affordable and no more risk than Viera, Chadli another who would suit our style has Prem experience and half the price.
Thats just 3 without leaving my house. Imagine what the possibilities would be if we actually had a functioning network and a budget for this sort of thing.
It is always fun to talk about some mythical young players and how easy it would be for us to sign them, but you also have to be realistic.
Siggy has been a cornerstone for us for awhile, and there aren't any available youngsters in our price range that can replace that and are willing to live in Swansea. I would rather us sign the "24/25 year olds of world football" you've referenced ad nauseum, but not to replace Siggy. That list probably looks like this:
That's it, and Viera's as good or better than everyone but Berardi. Who, by the way, is absolutely phenomenal and someone I'd love to see in a Swans shirt, but that's never happening. Viera, on the other hand, might. Again, you have to be realistic. As for your choices:
- Rafinha - well out of our league - Boudebouz - already turned us down - Chadli - not good enough/too expensive/older than Viera
So, basically you named Chadli as Siggy's replacement. Yeah, hell ffukkingg no, that is a guaranteed relegation if it's essentially a straight swap. He's also older than Viera, so it doesnt make any sense given your obsession over the age/re-sale value correlation. Honestly, if that's all you've got you need to sit this one out. I appreciate your view it's just the wrong time/place/player for it. Maybe post all this when we're trying to sign Chadli, yeah?
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 00:21 - Jul 31 with 2862 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 00:03 - Jul 31 by hobo
One of your links is titled "5 bargain playmakers for clubs on a budget". 25m euros is hardly on a budget so I'm sure the blog writer would change his tack if he knew how much Las Palmas wanted for him
The 2nd link is an article about his movement in ONE match! That's taking the whole "but he's good on Youtube clips" to a whole other level
I took this from the 3rd article - remember this is the guy some want to be replacing Gylfi....
"If you exclude Viera's three penalties (two vs. Real and one against Real Sociedad; had a penalty saved by Atleti's Chelsea loanee Thibaut Courtois), Viera has scored two goals from 44 shots in league play, meaning he takes 22 shots per goal.
His current shots per goal (9.4) is inefficient, and his adjusted shots per goal (minus penalties) balloons to 22"
[Post edited 31 Jul 2017 0:05]
- In the current market, €25m is still a bargain for a player of Viera's class. And that's what the article is about. Tom Cairney is on the list and Fulham want £20m for him, so Viera at €25m is a steal.
- The movement article is using one match as the reference point, yes. But if you actually read it it is talking about Viera as a player, and using that "ONE match!" to highlight Viera's skills and quality. Not really hard to comprehend.
- The third article says far more positive than negative that you haven't quoted, but I won't bother, the link is right there if anyone cares. It's also pretty old and Viera has grown a lot as a person and player since then. I used it to show his quality has been there his whole career, not just last season.
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 06:50 - Jul 31 with 2749 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 00:09 - Jul 31 by Nirvana
It is always fun to talk about some mythical young players and how easy it would be for us to sign them, but you also have to be realistic.
Siggy has been a cornerstone for us for awhile, and there aren't any available youngsters in our price range that can replace that and are willing to live in Swansea. I would rather us sign the "24/25 year olds of world football" you've referenced ad nauseum, but not to replace Siggy. That list probably looks like this:
That's it, and Viera's as good or better than everyone but Berardi. Who, by the way, is absolutely phenomenal and someone I'd love to see in a Swans shirt, but that's never happening. Viera, on the other hand, might. Again, you have to be realistic. As for your choices:
- Rafinha - well out of our league - Boudebouz - already turned us down - Chadli - not good enough/too expensive/older than Viera
So, basically you named Chadli as Siggy's replacement. Yeah, hell ffukkingg no, that is a guaranteed relegation if it's essentially a straight swap. He's also older than Viera, so it doesnt make any sense given your obsession over the age/re-sale value correlation. Honestly, if that's all you've got you need to sit this one out. I appreciate your view it's just the wrong time/place/player for it. Maybe post all this when we're trying to sign Chadli, yeah?
If you think Rafinha is well out of our league then why on Gods earth would you pay the same amount for a lesser player? Makes no sense.
(Unlike you) I am not a scout, it isnt my job to name replacements. I am just making the obvious point that £28m for Viera whose value will depreciate by the end of his time with us due to his age is clearly not the best player to use £28m for in world football given our reliance on profitable transfer sales for growth. Its lazy.
You have said in the past financial side bores you. If you are to bring anything to this thread then I am afraid you must put down the glitz and glamour of youtube and get your yawning slippers on and understand them, otherwise your suggestions are useless. Simple as that.
It doesn't matter that Chadli is older than Viera, hes also half the price to reflect that! I am not against signing older players, I am against spending eye watering amounts of money on older players (it makes no difference hoe much we got/ are getting for Gylfi before someone says it again).
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 06:50 - Jul 31 by E20Jack
If you think Rafinha is well out of our league then why on Gods earth would you pay the same amount for a lesser player? Makes no sense.
(Unlike you) I am not a scout, it isnt my job to name replacements. I am just making the obvious point that £28m for Viera whose value will depreciate by the end of his time with us due to his age is clearly not the best player to use £28m for in world football given our reliance on profitable transfer sales for growth. Its lazy.
You have said in the past financial side bores you. If you are to bring anything to this thread then I am afraid you must put down the glitz and glamour of youtube and get your yawning slippers on and understand them, otherwise your suggestions are useless. Simple as that.
It doesn't matter that Chadli is older than Viera, hes also half the price to reflect that! I am not against signing older players, I am against spending eye watering amounts of money on older players (it makes no difference hoe much we got/ are getting for Gylfi before someone says it again).
[Post edited 31 Jul 2017 7:54]
Around £26.5 million if his club hold out for the full release clause (€30 million I think E20?).
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 07:37 - Jul 31 with 2598 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 07:37 - Jul 31 by E20Jack
add in registration fees, agents fee, signing on fee and you are over £30m sterling before a ball is kicked.
You really are a "glass half empty" guy aren't you? Come on, trust in the managers judgement and enjoy the scintillating football Viera and Mesa are bound to conjure up between them. Fer and Carroll will turn into worldbeaters with that kind of quality around them.
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 08:18 - Jul 31 with 2504 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 08:14 - Jul 31 by Brynmill_Jack
You really are a "glass half empty" guy aren't you? Come on, trust in the managers judgement and enjoy the scintillating football Viera and Mesa are bound to conjure up between them. Fer and Carroll will turn into worldbeaters with that kind of quality around them.
Not a case of glass being half empty Brynny, just being aware of the situation.
A managers job is to identify decent players, and of that I trust PC. However it isnt his job to identify decent players that represent long term value, financial side of it is up to the likes of Huw or possibly even the new money men at the club. Do I trust them to make the right decision for the long term future of the club rather than just short term share increasing benefits?
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 08:18 - Jul 31 by E20Jack
Not a case of glass being half empty Brynny, just being aware of the situation.
A managers job is to identify decent players, and of that I trust PC. However it isnt his job to identify decent players that represent long term value, financial side of it is up to the likes of Huw or possibly even the new money men at the club. Do I trust them to make the right decision for the long term future of the club rather than just short term share increasing benefits?
...Absolutely no way on this earth.
The short term benefits include retaining PL status. That's kind of a big deal.
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 08:30 - Jul 31 with 2447 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 07:37 - Jul 31 by E20Jack
add in registration fees, agents fee, signing on fee and you are over £30m sterling before a ball is kicked.
Those numbers may be right, I'm no expert. But lets work with those numbers you've suggested. WBA will not sell Chadli for less than £20m, probably more with the way this crazy market has panned out. They paid what was it, £13/15m only last Summer and Pulis has openly stated they didn't want/need to sell him. So if they do succumb, with the addons youve previously suggested, he will cost us a minimum of £24/25m.
Chadli is never ever worth that!
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 08:38 - Jul 31 with 2410 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 08:26 - Jul 31 by jack247
The short term benefits include retaining PL status. That's kind of a big deal.
There are no guarantees that signing Jonathan Viera comes with an 'avoid relegation' card.
I think there are countless, less expensive, signings that will also give us a great chance of keeping us up that we can sell when it is time to - and continue to replace without compromising the amounts we have to spend to replace each time.
Chadli is more than good enough, has PL experience and wont compromise future seasons survival when we need to replace him.
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 08:30 - Jul 31 by UplandsJack
Those numbers may be right, I'm no expert. But lets work with those numbers you've suggested. WBA will not sell Chadli for less than £20m, probably more with the way this crazy market has panned out. They paid what was it, £13/15m only last Summer and Pulis has openly stated they didn't want/need to sell him. So if they do succumb, with the addons youve previously suggested, he will cost us a minimum of £24/25m.
Chadli is never ever worth that!
I agree. I don't think we would have to shell out £25m for Chadli though. If we do, then similarly I am not in favour of it.
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 08:38 - Jul 31 by E20Jack
There are no guarantees that signing Jonathan Viera comes with an 'avoid relegation' card.
I think there are countless, less expensive, signings that will also give us a great chance of keeping us up that we can sell when it is time to - and continue to replace without compromising the amounts we have to spend to replace each time.
Chadli is more than good enough, has PL experience and wont compromise future seasons survival when we need to replace him.
Of course there isn't, there's no guarantee with anyone. The better the player though, the better your chances.
I'm not sure how much you expect Chadli to cost? I also don't share your confidence in him. He hardly ripped trees up last season.
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 08:57 - Jul 31 with 2341 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 08:48 - Jul 31 by jack247
Of course there isn't, there's no guarantee with anyone. The better the player though, the better your chances.
I'm not sure how much you expect Chadli to cost? I also don't share your confidence in him. He hardly ripped trees up last season.
Viera only scored 2 in 21 last year from open play (5 penalties). I hope people arent simply looking at these stats and comparing them to replacements. Chadli scored 5 and assisted 5 in 27 starts. Thats a decent return in anybodies books. Its hard to compare passing stats as the leagues are completely different, there is far more space in La Liga.
I have no idea how much Chadli would cost. Anything around £15m would be a decent signing, any more and he would start to creep into the same bracket as Viera.
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 08:14 - Jul 31 by Brynmill_Jack
You really are a "glass half empty" guy aren't you? Come on, trust in the managers judgement and enjoy the scintillating football Viera and Mesa are bound to conjure up between them. Fer and Carroll will turn into worldbeaters with that kind of quality around them.
Extremely well done new highlights video on the "glamorous youtube" of Viera.
Marvelous footballer, Coutinho-like.
Well worth the time:
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 19:08 - Aug 1 with 1867 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 06:50 - Jul 31 by E20Jack
If you think Rafinha is well out of our league then why on Gods earth would you pay the same amount for a lesser player? Makes no sense.
(Unlike you) I am not a scout, it isnt my job to name replacements. I am just making the obvious point that £28m for Viera whose value will depreciate by the end of his time with us due to his age is clearly not the best player to use £28m for in world football given our reliance on profitable transfer sales for growth. Its lazy.
You have said in the past financial side bores you. If you are to bring anything to this thread then I am afraid you must put down the glitz and glamour of youtube and get your yawning slippers on and understand them, otherwise your suggestions are useless. Simple as that.
It doesn't matter that Chadli is older than Viera, hes also half the price to reflect that! I am not against signing older players, I am against spending eye watering amounts of money on older players (it makes no difference hoe much we got/ are getting for Gylfi before someone says it again).
[Post edited 31 Jul 2017 7:54]
Well okay, just ignore the substance of my posts I guess, E20. I'll actually respond to your words, though.
- Rafinha is well out of our league, not because of his ability, but because of his wages. He is not better than Viera, any way you look at it. But, we can't pay £20m fees and afford £100k a week at the same time. Naive thinking someone like him or Pedro would move to our club, or that we could afford it.
- I am not a scout either, I guess I just enjoy watching football more than looking at spreadsheets or arguing on here with my free time. Sorry you don't. And your "point" is only "obvious" to you, because you haven't watched Las Palmas play before. Viera is not what you've made him out to be, and the market is not what you've made it out to be.
- Insular finance-speak bores me, yes, E20. But I never said I didn't understand it. I do. It's just ffukkingg boring, and I'd rather leave it to accountants. This is also a forum for football, not risk analysis. Either way, Viera is absolutely worth £20m+ and you can't see that because you've never seen him play. "Simple as that." I have. Live and in person, several times. Not just the "glamorous youtube" or whatever. The guy is class. End of.
- You have filled up 17 pages with your obsessive "age/re-sale value" posts and all of a sudden you don't care how old Chadli is? Why? Because it suits your defence of him? What about all those anonymous "24/25 year-olds of world football" you've been using to criticize Viera with? Chadli must look even worse by comparison, surely?
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 19:09 - Aug 1 with 1859 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 18:58 - Aug 1 by Nirvana
Extremely well done new highlights video on the "glamorous youtube" of Viera.
Marvelous footballer, Coutinho-like.
Well worth the time:
Nobody is saying he isn't a decent player.
Doesn't mean it wouldn't be a stupid signing though. You are flogging a dead horse until you understand our financial situation. Of which you obviously don't.
I dont care how old Chadli is because at the price it is reflective of the price. As stated several times (if you cared to out youtube down for a second to read) if the price became upwards of £15m for Chadli then he would also enter the realm of Viera (being too expensive).
Viera is absolutely not worth that. You just are getting all giddy and star stuck, financially speaking, it would be a disaster. You say you understand our finances but I really don't think you do, your words suggest otherwise.
As for arguing on a forum, the last few months this forum has been filled with you, your boring youtube videos pretending to have seen all these players and of course a constant drone of arguments with anyone that dare question your rubbish.
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