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Labour money forest on 15:48 - Jul 12 by westwalesed
This is the best post I have ever seen. I want to steal it and show it to anyone who bangs on about Tory austerity measures, how the financial crisis is al a cunning plan to make the rich richer and the poor poorer and how we can wipe out the 100bn student loan debt just like that. Absolutely superb.
Also, nobody who doesn't understand how deficits and debt actually work should be allowed anywhere near this debate! I do think they should just change "deficit" to "shortfall" and everyone would get it.
I am £50 short at the end of each month. I borrow £50 to cover that, so my debt goes up by £50. However, my shortfall will go down by £10 a month. So in half a year I will be in surplus and I can start paying off the debt. FECKING SIMPLE.
And here's Yanis Varoufakis explaining that exact point.
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever.
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Labour money forest on 15:52 - Jul 13 with 1845 views
Reducing govt spending may not bring the deficit down by the same amount but it will still reduce the deficit.
I don't think the Tories give a flying f*ck about either the debt or the deficit tbh. It's just the excuse they use to sell off every single profit making asset into private hands as fast as they humanly can. You know, assets that provided an income that actually brought down the deficit. Wonder how much the Royal Mail has paid out in dividends since it was sold for a song. New Labour carried on from the Major government in this regard also. F*cking criminals. We'll wake up to this scam one day, won't we?
Not aimed at you dai btw, just having a mini rant of a Thursday...
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever.
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Labour money forest on 18:57 - Jul 13 with 1814 views
You do understand the difference between debt and deficit, do you? And why it is that the debt's still rising?
Sorry, you're not making any sense. I thought that's what I explained - the deficit (difference between govt receipts and spendig) HAS come down, but is still negative and therefore debt is still growing.
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Labour money forest on 19:18 - Jul 13 with 1804 views
From the Guardian newspaper, 2010 (I deliberately chose the Guardian in the hope that some of this might sink in to the dense heads of those who wish to portray the rise in the national debt as the Tories' fault).
The mess in Britain's finances has three main causes. The first is that the crisis of 2007 arrived when the budget was in relatively poor shape. Tax receipts during the bubble years were weaker than the Treasury expected, which meant that even with the economy booming the deficit stood at close to £40bn.
The second factor was the depth and duration of the recession. Deficits tend to rise during downturns because tax receipts fall and spending on unemployment and other welfare payments rise. In Britain's case, the economy contracted by more than 6% over six successive quarters from early 2008 to late 2009. By the time growth resumed national output was 10% lower than it would have been had the economy continued to expand at its normal rate of around 2.5% a year. That punched a hole in the public finances.
Finally, the VAT holiday and help for the unemployed, designed to mitigate the effects of the recession, cost around £25bn, or around 1.5% of GDP, much smaller in relation to the size of the UK economy than the packages used to support growth in the United States or China.
Part of the deficit is deemed to be cyclical — it will disappear once the economy grows strongly. The other part, the £70bn structural element, is what the government wants to eliminate during the current parliament.
The bank bailouts have little impact: the Treasury does not count money used to buy bank shares because it assumes it will get it back.
Note the fecking date when the HUGE structural deficit appears (due to the massive drop in taxes received from the banking, financial services and insurance sectors...plus the associated drag that put on the rest of the sectors). Remember that even before the crash in that sector (by far and away the largest contributor to the UK treasury) the Labour party were already spending £40bn a year more than they were receiving in tax receipts. Bear in mind that that those who have governed in the 7 years since have managed to close that deficit by 3/4 without the aid of a magic wand, in the midst of a global recession, with our neighbours and largest trading partners in the EU managing to grind their economies to a halt...AND WITH THE FECKING LABOUR PARTY OPPOSING EVERY-SINGLE-F-U-C-K-I-N-G-SPENDING CUT.
In the calendar year 2007, the Labour government borrowed £37.7bn, of which £28.3bn was invested in big projects (the balance of £9.4bn used to pay the current budget deficit). Conversely, in 2013, the Conservative-led coalition borrowed £91.5bn, with just £23.7bn invested. The balance of nearly £70bn needed to plug the huge fecking hole in our public finances...and the fecking Labour party consistently argued that we should be borrowing more.
The time to GET REAL has long gone. Unfortunately many prefer the la-la land offered by Corbyn and co.
[Post edited 11 Jul 2017 23:40]
I was making the point you've just posted - that the Tories have indeed reduced the deficit (when others on here were saying it was going up).
Unless you want to argue with yourself....
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Labour money forest on 20:01 - Jul 13 with 1783 views
Labour money forest on 19:09 - Jul 13 by LeonWasGod
Sorry, you're not making any sense. I thought that's what I explained - the deficit (difference between govt receipts and spendig) HAS come down, but is still negative and therefore debt is still growing.
My apologies. You obviously do understand the difference between deficit and debt. I wasn't sure whether you did given your response to Brynmill where you say that "the debt is higher than any time under Labour". That's true, but the uninitiated might take that comment in isolation and think that the Tories are doing really badly in trying to reduce the debt, whereas the opposite is true. I guess I should have quoted Brynmill - now, I'm not convinced he understands the difference between debt and deficit.
Labour money forest on 17:10 - Jul 13 by Jack_Meoff
I don't think the Tories give a flying f*ck about either the debt or the deficit tbh. It's just the excuse they use to sell off every single profit making asset into private hands as fast as they humanly can. You know, assets that provided an income that actually brought down the deficit. Wonder how much the Royal Mail has paid out in dividends since it was sold for a song. New Labour carried on from the Major government in this regard also. F*cking criminals. We'll wake up to this scam one day, won't we?
Not aimed at you dai btw, just having a mini rant of a Thursday...
Totally agree about the PO. A fücking disgrace.
Used to have the best service in the world while making 100s of millions for the taxpayer but that wasn't good enough for the politicians. Then they started preparing it for privatisations in the 80s and it all went tits up. Politicians are like managers. Can't leave things alone.
I blame Fatch and the cult of management she introduced together with the all things private are better than public mantra.
Used to have the best service in the world while making 100s of millions for the taxpayer but that wasn't good enough for the politicians. Then they started preparing it for privatisations in the 80s and it all went tits up. Politicians are like managers. Can't leave things alone.
I blame Fatch and the cult of management she introduced together with the all things private are better than public mantra.
Perception of where the 100s of millions should go vary - to government it obviously should go into private hands. They do not represent the public. They're war mongering, arms dealing, asset striping criminals. Democracy my arse.
We've had all our assets sold off bit by bit. Just ask Sid. And we're in a terminal debt/death spiral.
I genuinely still can't believe we're still arguing amongst ourselves, whilst these treasonous b*stards take the p*ss. Saying that, we'd even argue in the Gulags about which showers have the strongest running water, those on the left or the right.
[Post edited 14 Jul 2017 0:15]
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever.
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Labour money forest on 09:36 - Jul 14 with 1688 views
Used to have the best service in the world while making 100s of millions for the taxpayer but that wasn't good enough for the politicians. Then they started preparing it for privatisations in the 80s and it all went tits up. Politicians are like managers. Can't leave things alone.
I blame Fatch and the cult of management she introduced together with the all things private are better than public mantra.
The PO and the Royal Mail are not the same thing.
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Labour money forest on 15:29 - Jul 14 with 1653 views
writing off student debit including many students who come from a very wealthy back ground many students who are now in well paid jobs, while the nhs and housing is in crisis. Is idiotic, but corbyn is banking on the youth vote and will say anything they want to hear
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Labour money forest on 18:33 - Jul 14 with 1625 views
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