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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 21:45 - Mar 9 by trampie
The best outcome that could be hoped for would be Labour to lose seats and Plaid to finish second, making Plaid the kingmakers, with either Plaid coming to an arrangement with Labour but a coalition with them should be ruled out, or Plaid being the lead party of a rainbow coalition.
A plaid coalition with UKIP and the Tories?
I look forward to reading that budget.
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 22:17 - Mar 9 with 1882 views
Are those who vote Plaid but don't want to break up the United Kingdom UK Nats? UK Nats who "care little for Wales" and are incapable of being "pro Welsh"?
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 22:23 - Mar 9 by Kerouac
Answer this question Tramp.
Are those who vote Plaid but don't want to break up the United Kingdom UK Nats? UK Nats who "care little for Wales" and are incapable of being "pro Welsh"?
Doubt there are many UK Nats in Plaid, British Isles Nats consisting of the Isle of Ireland and Wales, Scotland and England ok with some kind of veto for each country, Brit Nats, Wales, Scotland and England ok with some kind of veto, but UK Nats no, we should have nothing to do with Northern Ireland unless they are part of Ireland, some are a bunch of headers, the place is a bit of a basket case and should not be part of the union.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 22:17 - Mar 9 by nice_to_michu
You forget, Plaid Cymru's proposals (such as temporarily nationalising the steel industry) are financially impossible. They do not respect budgets.
As for the Tories, they promise the world before elections and, unfortunately, some of our citizens actually believe them.
The idea I heard of Plaid's that the Welsh Government should nationalise a power station to supply a steelworks and the local area to try and ensure the steel plant gets reasonably priced energy is a good one in my view.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 08:30 - Mar 10 by trampie
Doubt there are many UK Nats in Plaid, British Isles Nats consisting of the Isle of Ireland and Wales, Scotland and England ok with some kind of veto for each country, Brit Nats, Wales, Scotland and England ok with some kind of veto, but UK Nats no, we should have nothing to do with Northern Ireland unless they are part of Ireland, some are a bunch of headers, the place is a bit of a basket case and should not be part of the union.
From your garbled answer are we to take it that it is indeed possible to wish to remain in the UK/British state and still put Wales' interests first, to be "pro Welsh" if you will?
Yes its possible to remain in the UK and try and put Wales interests first but the risk of being out voted and having policies that don't suit Wales is great, it is the conundrum in a nutshell.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
I doubt I'll get a clear answer, but why is it people who want to remain part of the UK are suddenly nationalists, but the people who want independence and to create a Welsh everything to separate ourselves from Britain patriots?
Nationalists, or, as Trampie inists on calling them, Brit Nats, are not people who are proud to be British, or people who have a dual identity, or people who are happy in the union. They're people who seek to create a them & us paradigm. Essentially, what the 'Scot Nats' and 'Welsh Nats' do with regards to Britain and England. Find it all very juvenile and pathetic.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 10:00 - Mar 10 by trampie
Yes its possible to remain in the UK and try and put Wales interests first but the risk of being out voted and having policies that don't suit Wales is great, it is the conundrum in a nutshell.
So therefore the Welsh Liberal Democrats, Welsh Labour, Welsh Conservatives etc. are perfectly capable of being pro-Welsh and putting Welsh interests first....in fact, given that Plaid's current position is not to push for independence, there is no difference whatsoever in their position and Plaid's.
So Plaid are Green UK Nats! OR Plaid's top goal, Welsh independence, is serious and therefore they are lying to the electorate....treating them with contempt....and if they ever became the dominant party in Wales would demand a costly referendum. WASTING ALL OF OUR TIME AND MONEY.
The Lib-Dems, UKIP, Labour and the Conservatives all have their party headquarters in England, Plaid Cymru have theirs in Wales.
The Lib-Dems, UKIP, Labour and the Conservatives will do what's primarily best for England because that is where they are based and that is where the bulk of the UK population is, Plaid Cymru is based in Wales and will do what's best for Wales.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 10:36 - Mar 10 by CopperJack
I doubt I'll get a clear answer, but why is it people who want to remain part of the UK are suddenly nationalists, but the people who want independence and to create a Welsh everything to separate ourselves from Britain patriots?
Nationalists, or, as Trampie inists on calling them, Brit Nats, are not people who are proud to be British, or people who have a dual identity, or people who are happy in the union. They're people who seek to create a them & us paradigm. Essentially, what the 'Scot Nats' and 'Welsh Nats' do with regards to Britain and England. Find it all very juvenile and pathetic.
Anybody that believes in borders is a nationalist, Brit Nats and their treatment of indigenous peoples in other lands during the British Empire, Brit Nats and their attitude towards immigrants and the EU, etc.
Its good that 'little Englanders' as they known in some quarters, get a taste of their own medicine, they call certain Irish, Scots and Welsh 'Nats' with all the negative connotations that go's with it but they don't like being called Nats themselves. lol.
The bottom line historically in a general sense CopperJack is when one group try's to force their way of life and rules on another lot when the other lot then resist they call them everything.
If you want to align yourself with the imperialists CopperJack then that is your choice, I will stick to sticking up for the little guys and their rights.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 10:36 - Mar 10 by CopperJack
I doubt I'll get a clear answer, but why is it people who want to remain part of the UK are suddenly nationalists, but the people who want independence and to create a Welsh everything to separate ourselves from Britain patriots?
Nationalists, or, as Trampie inists on calling them, Brit Nats, are not people who are proud to be British, or people who have a dual identity, or people who are happy in the union. They're people who seek to create a them & us paradigm. Essentially, what the 'Scot Nats' and 'Welsh Nats' do with regards to Britain and England. Find it all very juvenile and pathetic.
"Juvenile and pathetic" - CopperJack Exactly.
Take the SNP for instance. They started off well enough;
1) 2007 - They successfully boot Labour out of power in Scottish Parliament. They don't get an outright victory but they are now the largest party and form a minority government - So far so good.
2) Despite the promise for a 2010 independence referendum being in their election manifesto they fail to achieve a referendum because they couldn't get enough support from the rest of the Scottish Parliament.
3) 2011 - The SNP again promise a referendum in their election manifesto (always their stated aim), before election day Alex Salmond stated they would put forward legislation for a referendum in the second half of the Scottish parliament and they win an outright majority. - Well done the SNP!
4) 2014 - Having spent a large part of their time in government, the previous 7 years securing the referendum they then lose the referendum.
Do they accept defeat gracefully and promise not to put the country through this again for at least another couple of decades? No. It is still their no. 1 goal and everything they do is geared towards achieving this aim. The outcome of the EU referendum is now being used as an excuse to have another Scottish referendum (Tramp puts forward the same arguments for Wales having an independence referendum).....and SNP MPs in Westminster routinely vote against legislation that has nothing to do with them. The latest outrageous example of this is SNP MPs voting against English and Welsh councils having the same powers over Sunday trading devolved to them as have been already devolved to the Scottish parliament.
So, having lost their referendum, their agenda is not to work towards improving Scotland for future generations.....getting stuff done.....it remains to agitate for another referendum. Even if that means buggering up the functioning of our parliament as well as their own.
Take the SNP's stance on using their new shiny income tax powers to govern in Scotland ie. NOT using them. It was a Liberal Democrat Secretary of State who delivered these new tax powers, it is perhaps not surprising that we were the first to propose using them to transform education in Scotland. By putting a penny for education onto income tax bands, we would raise £475 million a year. The devolution of powers to local people is consistent with our principles and has long been part of our agenda. So the Liberal democrats in Scotland say "our education is not quite good enough. Let's DO something about it. We'll all have to pay a fraction more tax but it will be worth it!"
The SNP refuses to use their income tax powers to fix any of their perceived Scottish problems because they win more votes by pretending that everything is the Tories in Westminster's fault and if only Scotland would break away and become independent the Scots could live in a land of milk and honey.
IT IS IRRESPONSIBLE AND PATHETIC/CHILDISH......WHY WOULD WE WANT IT HERE? -IF YOU THINK WALES SHOULD REMAIN PART OF THE UK DON'T VOTE FOR PLAID CYMRU. - IF YOU WANT TO VOTE FOR CHANGE AND FOR PEOPLE WHO GIVE A SHIT ABOUT WALES AND WANT TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR DOING SOMETHING ABOUT OUR PROBLEMS....VOTE LIBERAL DEMOCRAT!
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 11:17 - Mar 10 by trampie
Anybody that believes in borders is a nationalist, Brit Nats and their treatment of indigenous peoples in other lands during the British Empire, Brit Nats and their attitude towards immigrants and the EU, etc.
Its good that 'little Englanders' as they known in some quarters, get a taste of their own medicine, they call certain Irish, Scots and Welsh 'Nats' with all the negative connotations that go's with it but they don't like being called Nats themselves. lol.
The bottom line historically in a general sense CopperJack is when one group try's to force their way of life and rules on another lot when the other lot then resist they call them everything.
If you want to align yourself with the imperialists CopperJack then that is your choice, I will stick to sticking up for the little guys and their rights.
Hahaha you really do still live in the 19th century. Next you'll be moaning about Queen Victoria. Nearly every major civilisation in the history of the world has had an empire. I don't see you castigating the French/Spanish/Italians/Germans/Americans/Russians - the list is endless. You just sound incredibly bitter. I suppose Welsh people have never done anything bad? Besides the fact that Wales took an active part in the British Empire, so I suppose we're also nationalists? So, you admit you're a Welsh nationalist. You want Wales to be a separate country, distinct from England because you seem to despise them for century old grievances. The reason that Scot/Welsh/Irish nationalists are called nationalists is because they want independence based on nothing more than an irrational dislike of England - and blame all our problems on England.
The Welsh Nationalists are trying to force their way of life on other people, the normal Welsh people who are happy being part of the union. Also, as I mentioned, need I remind you what the early members of Plaid like Sanders Lewis did? Or the fact that some of the early party had Nazi-sympathy because they were so irrationally xenophobic and anti-English?
I'm no more an imperliast than you. Britain (with Wales included) haven't had an Empire for over 50 years (you are aware of this yeah?). Let it go, you sound incredibly bitter. The only nationalists here are the xenophobes who have an irrational hatred of England and Britain.
The Lib-Dems are an English based party that will put England before Wales as England has a much greater population, Plaid Cymru are a bona fide Welsh party that will put Wales first and will attempt to spread the wealth around Wales.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 11:17 - Mar 10 by trampie
Anybody that believes in borders is a nationalist, Brit Nats and their treatment of indigenous peoples in other lands during the British Empire, Brit Nats and their attitude towards immigrants and the EU, etc.
Its good that 'little Englanders' as they known in some quarters, get a taste of their own medicine, they call certain Irish, Scots and Welsh 'Nats' with all the negative connotations that go's with it but they don't like being called Nats themselves. lol.
The bottom line historically in a general sense CopperJack is when one group try's to force their way of life and rules on another lot when the other lot then resist they call them everything.
If you want to align yourself with the imperialists CopperJack then that is your choice, I will stick to sticking up for the little guys and their rights.
"Anybody that believes in borders is a nationalist"
- So if a billion Chinese wanted to come and live in Wales you'd be fine with that would you? So if 10 million Muslims want to come to Wales and make the 3 million Welsh live an Islamic life that's fine too? Grow up!
"Brit Nats and their treatment of indigenous peoples in other lands during the British Empire, Brit Nats and their attitude towards immigrants and the EU"
- Any student of history knows that all kinds of people have treated indigenous peoples in other lands badly down the ages. It was never just the Brits and the Brits' record stands up better to scrutiny than plenty of other people's....including the French, the Spanish, the Germans and Islam. On the EU; You want to ditch a state (the UK) where Wales has devolved powers....with more likely to come....where people in power are held to account by democracy, where we have far more in common with the other nationalities we share this state with for the EU? Incoherent nonsense. On immigrants; The UK has consistently taken in more immigrants than the other EU states over a long period of time. The population of the UK (INCLUDING WALES) are worrying about this issue lately because of a whole host of factors.
"If you want to align yourself with the imperialists CopperJack then that is your choice, I will stick to sticking up for the little guys and their rights."
- You sound like a fukking student. Life's a bit more complicated than that. My loyalties start with my wife and kids, then family, then my local community, then people who think a bit like and wish to live a peaceful prosperous existence like me. I think you'll find most people on this planet think similar. Pathologically sticking up for anyone you can find and attach the label "victim", "little guy" to sounds very Jeremy Corbyn and not what the citizens of a state vote for you for. A party of governance's first responsibility is to the citizens and the society of the state it has been elected to govern. Grow up.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 11:50 - Mar 10 by Kerouac
"Anybody that believes in borders is a nationalist"
- So if a billion Chinese wanted to come and live in Wales you'd be fine with that would you? So if 10 million Muslims want to come to Wales and make the 3 million Welsh live an Islamic life that's fine too? Grow up!
"Brit Nats and their treatment of indigenous peoples in other lands during the British Empire, Brit Nats and their attitude towards immigrants and the EU"
- Any student of history knows that all kinds of people have treated indigenous peoples in other lands badly down the ages. It was never just the Brits and the Brits' record stands up better to scrutiny than plenty of other people's....including the French, the Spanish, the Germans and Islam. On the EU; You want to ditch a state (the UK) where Wales has devolved powers....with more likely to come....where people in power are held to account by democracy, where we have far more in common with the other nationalities we share this state with for the EU? Incoherent nonsense. On immigrants; The UK has consistently taken in more immigrants than the other EU states over a long period of time. The population of the UK (INCLUDING WALES) are worrying about this issue lately because of a whole host of factors.
"If you want to align yourself with the imperialists CopperJack then that is your choice, I will stick to sticking up for the little guys and their rights."
- You sound like a fukking student. Life's a bit more complicated than that. My loyalties start with my wife and kids, then family, then my local community, then people who think a bit like and wish to live a peaceful prosperous existence like me. I think you'll find most people on this planet think similar. Pathologically sticking up for anyone you can find and attach the label "victim", "little guy" to sounds very Jeremy Corbyn and not what the citizens of a state vote for you for. A party of governance's first responsibility is to the citizens and the society of the state it has been elected to govern. Grow up.
Yeah after Trampie's latest incohrerent, bigoted post (in a long line of incomprehensible mutterings) was the final straw for me I'm sorry to say.
Can't get a sensible debate with him about it - he just comes back with 'I'm just a Welshman who speaks my mind butt'. He's the worst Plaid spokesman ever because he makes me not want to vote for them - I'm sure others feel the same.
Baby steps, resources need to be directed towards Wales for Wales to stand on its own 2 feet, Wales has been neglected by successive Westminster Governments, not many people would vote for Welsh independence now but down the line is a different ball game, Welsh independence is an aim for some, a goal for the future, cant say I'm hearing many people suggesting independence for Wales tomorrow, next week, next month, next year or even next decade, but after that it might or might not be on the agenda.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 11:36 - Mar 10 by trampie
The Lib-Dems are an English based party that will put England before Wales as England has a much greater population, Plaid Cymru are a bona fide Welsh party that will put Wales first and will attempt to spread the wealth around Wales.
To all.
The Lib Dems are a party that has a long proud history of fighting for decentralizing power from the centre and putting it in the hands of local people. In the coalition government we fought for these principles, we will always fight for these principles.
Instead of voting for Plaid, a party that would spend all of their time and effort doing what the SNP has done in Scotland (and don't even have the decency to put their desire for independence in their election manifesto!....it's the no. 1 goal of the party's constitution); A party that is so incoherent they criticize the current UK government for wasting time and expending to much resources on negotiating a new deal with the EU...... For giving you the voting public the chance to vote 'Leave' if you so desire (Plaid are totally opposed to leaving).... when all the while they intend to spend decades on breaking up the UK so they can then go and join the EU. An organisation which would dictate to Wales on all kinds of policy areas and law without any kind of democratic accountability!.....Please somebody, make sense of that position!
If you want to remain in the UK...and who wouldn't? It's great. If you vote for an independence referendum they give you one (see Spain for an example of how this goes down in other countries)....if the Welsh parties and public say we want more devolved powers the UK finds solutions. After all why do you think there is even an Assembly? If you want this but you want genuine change....we're talking about; more resources poured into education, reform of the drug laws, reform of the voting system, reform of the House of Lords, more devolved powers to councils and devolved parliaments etc. THEN VOTE LIB DEM
....a party for grown ups who understand that sometimes taxes need to be raised, cuts need to be made and compromises conceded in order to get stuff done!
Who's calling me a Plaid spokesman, lol, i'm just a member of the public, i'm not a member of any political party, unlike some posters on here that have said they are members of Labour and the Lib-Dems and are arguing with me a member of the public. lol.
People can vote for who they like, I just note that the Lib-Dems, Labour, the Conservatives and UKIP are all English based parties currently on the right of British politics [check out political compass], Plaid's politics are in the middle [fractionally to the left unlike the other parties I have mentioned that are well out on the right], Plaid are not only a Welsh party but have apparently pledged to spread any wealth proportionally throughout Wales, with me believing in equality and with me having nothing to do with Cardiff or the South-East of Wales this appeals to me as both Cardiff and South-East Wales seem to get more than their fair share of investment compared to some other parts of Wales, as regards posters on here they can vote for who they like as far as I'm concerned nothing will change if they vote for the Lib-Dems, Labour, the Conservatives or UKIP imo, they are all English austerity parties, by way of contrast Plaid are a Welsh anti austerity party.
[Post edited 10 Mar 2016 12:42]
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 12:21 - Mar 10 by trampie
Who's calling me a Plaid spokesman, lol, i'm just a member of the public, i'm not a member of any political party, unlike some posters on here that have said they are members of Labour and the Lib-Dems and are arguing with me a member of the public. lol.
People can vote for who they like, I just note that the Lib-Dems, Labour, the Conservatives and UKIP are all English based parties currently on the right of British politics [check out political compass], Plaid's politics are in the middle [fractionally to the left unlike the other parties I have mentioned that are well out on the right], Plaid are not only a Welsh party but have apparently pledged to spread any wealth proportionally throughout Wales, with me believing in equality and with me having nothing to do with Cardiff or the South-East of Wales this appeals to me as both Cardiff and South-East Wales seem to get more than their fair share of investment compared to some other parts of Wales, as regards posters on here they can vote for who they like as far as I'm concerned nothing will change if they vote for the Lib-Dems, Labour, the Conservatives or UKIP imo, they are all English austerity parties, by way of contrast Plaid are a Welsh anti austerity party.
[Post edited 10 Mar 2016 12:42]
Tramps, you do know that the political compass website you keep banging on about isn't an accurate measurement of political ideology don't you?
If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys?
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 16:25 - Mar 10 with 1589 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 16:25 - Mar 10 by trampie
It does not have to be smack on either to illustrate just how right wing Labour, the Conservatives, the Lib-Dems and UKIP are.
Labour are routinely called 'Red Tories' by all and sundry these days.
What the heck are you talking about? The Welsh Government has been the most left-wing of the devolved governments on the British Isles for some time, fact.
Nationally, Labour just elected Jeremy Corbyn as its leader, but that's not left-wing to you?
The other day you called Mike Hedges AM a "red Tory". How dumb are you? He has been a vocal supporter of Jeremy Corbyn since the beginning and regularly speaks at left-wing events both in and outside of the Labour Party.
Your fact-less rants are getting tiresome.
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 22:40 - Mar 10 with 1528 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 22:25 - Mar 10 by nice_to_michu
What the heck are you talking about? The Welsh Government has been the most left-wing of the devolved governments on the British Isles for some time, fact.
Nationally, Labour just elected Jeremy Corbyn as its leader, but that's not left-wing to you?
The other day you called Mike Hedges AM a "red Tory". How dumb are you? He has been a vocal supporter of Jeremy Corbyn since the beginning and regularly speaks at left-wing events both in and outside of the Labour Party.
Your fact-less rants are getting tiresome.
Ignore him mun, you're just another right wing, Brit nat Welsh hating scum.
He's really boring when he's like this.
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 09:53 - Mar 11 with 1462 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 22:40 - Mar 10 by acejack3065
Ignore him mun, you're just another right wing, Brit nat Welsh hating scum.
He's really boring when he's like this.
UKIPs bizarre choice of candidates in Wales (chosen by its members) suggest that they are far right English nationalist party. In Scotland polls suggest that the SNP will get 60% of the vote although most Scots still want to stay in the UK. The reason for this is the SNP’s good record in government & people know that they will stand up for the people of Scotland. In my opinion it is beneficial for Wales to be a part of the UK and Europe (reluctantly), however, I will vote Plaid because they are the only party that will fight for our corner and would probably do a better job of running Wales than Labour.
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 10:48 - Mar 11 with 1454 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 09:53 - Mar 11 by skettywestern
UKIPs bizarre choice of candidates in Wales (chosen by its members) suggest that they are far right English nationalist party. In Scotland polls suggest that the SNP will get 60% of the vote although most Scots still want to stay in the UK. The reason for this is the SNP’s good record in government & people know that they will stand up for the people of Scotland. In my opinion it is beneficial for Wales to be a part of the UK and Europe (reluctantly), however, I will vote Plaid because they are the only party that will fight for our corner and would probably do a better job of running Wales than Labour.
The SNP and good governance;
They are an "anti-austerity party", yes? They regularly complain about Tory cuts and promise to protect the Scots wherever possible from the cuts....but they could negate some of the cuts by raising taxes (a power a Lib Dem Scottish minister secured for them). Yet they refuse.
So they don't want to make any cuts and they don't want to raise any taxes. So the plan is.......to carry on overspending indefinitely!
That's not good governance.
The SNP would say yes but if we were independent we wouldn't need to take our fair share of the UKs overall debt (despite the bailing out of Scottish banks) and therefore austerity wouldn't be necessary..... ummm, except that the SNPs economic plan for an Independent Scotland relied heavily on North Sea Oil receipts.....and the price of oil has completely collapsed. WHICH MEANS THAT IF THEY HAD WON THEIR INDEPENDENCE REFERENDUM THEY WOULD BE IMPLEMENTING MASSIVE CUTS RIGHT NOW OR DOING SOME VERY EXPENSIVE BORROWING THAT WOULD IMPOVERISH FUTURE GENERATIONS OF INDEPENDENT SCOTS. The Scots would have been begging to rejoin the UK around about now.
Do the SNP hierarchy understand this? Yes they do. Do they get their heads down and concentrate on the governance of Scotland? No they don't. They continue to agitate for another referendum while opposing every cut from Westminster and even have the gall to interfere in matters that don't concern them at Westminster.
This is not responsible government. This is childish, irresponsible, sticking 2 fingers up to the English....a game of let's pretend at a time when we really need to be getting on with rebuilding the UK for our sons and daughters and grandchildren.
....Vote Plaid if you want to repeat this process down here in Wales. It is easy to be anti-austerity when you are spending other people's money.
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