| Euro 2024 17:49 - Dec 2 with 14592 views | Juzzie |
England in Group C along with;
Slovenia
Denmark
Serbia
Scotland in a tough group;
Germany
Hungary
Switzerland
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| Euro 2024 on 22:24 - Dec 3 with 2082 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Euro 2024 on 10:32 - Dec 3 by BazzaInTheLoft |
A reminder, before the myth that Gareth always had a wonderful pool of talent to choose from, that he started v Croatia with Ashley Young, Jessie Lingard, and Deli Alli in his starting XI and Fabian Delph, Phil Jones on the bench.
We were not blessed in 2018 and the semis were an incredible achievement. |
True but goodness me the draw was very kind to England in 2018. They even managed to secure an easier route in the knockout stages by finishing 2nd in the group. This luck of the draw has struck again for Euro 2024. [Post edited 3 Dec 2023 22:28]
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| Euro 2024 on 22:38 - Dec 3 with 2062 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Euro 2024 on 10:15 - Dec 3 by Northernr |
Both things can be true.
Statistically, results, tournament finishes, he's one of our best ever managers. "Oh yeh but he's been blessed with a great squad of players"... well look at the bloody squad Eriksson had, and what he did with it.
But, also, he was caught out being too cautious against Croatia and Italy in big moments. I discount France, personally. They're a great team, we were right with them all the way, the game is settled on a defensive clearance made at one end and not the other, and us missing a penalty. Not Southgate's fault at all that one, just one of those things.
It's nuanced, right? One thing I've really liked about his reign is he's made it more like a club squad where it's the same group of players all the time, so they can foster a group mentsality and a proper style of play. It's really difficult to break into the group (he kept Grealish and Madison waiting ages when the press were baying) but it's also really difficult to fall out of - he'll keep faith with you a long time.
That, to my mind, was one of the great strengths of certain German squads in the recent past, and Spain. It helped them conquer the Barca v Real rivalries in the squad, and for England it's got rid of that Man Utd v the world mentality that Ferguson insisted upon - all sitting at separate tables etc. There's now a great togetherness and spirit about England which Southgate is responsible for prioritising, fostering and building. It's certainly a lot more effective than all of his predecessors just chopping and changing and slinging whoever's had a few good Prem games in there. We went to South Africa not even knowing who the bloody goalkeeper would be, and look how that went.
But, at the same time, as all managers do when they're lucky enough to be in the job a long time (see Holloway towards the end of his first spell here) he is becoming a bit obstinate, stubborn, with logic-defying favourites, and tying himself in knots with his reasons and justifications. We're leaving Sterling out because his club form isn't good, but Phillips gets picked despite never playing for his club, Maguire is in despite playing like a complete cnt for 18 months, and Henderson is in despite being 33 and playing Conference North standard football in front of 600 people. He's basically picking Maguire now, even in friendly games where you think maybe take him out of the firing line and have a look at somebody out, it feels to me as a 'fck you I'm in charge' sort of attitude.
So we'll see how the tournament goes. I fear he might have gone on a tournament too long. He seemed to be minded to resign and then got talked out of it, which isn't great. But then, Bellingham fit, Kane fit, Maguire pulls his hamstring, Henderson turns his Grindr on and gets locked up, we've got a hell of a chance. Fascinating summer ahead, I'm genuinely excited about it.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
I think this is fair assessment. Whilst Southgate can be obstinate and, arguably, should've achieved more with this group, the England camp is now a good place to be. The players look forward to meeting up and leave all club rivalries at the door. Gareth should be commended for fostering this environment and the FA need to ensure this camaraderie is not lost with the next incumbent. | | | |
| Euro 2024 on 22:46 - Dec 3 with 2057 views | acricketer |
Having followed England's exploits for 57 years, Southgate has contributed to the most enjoyable time for an England supporter. We may not have won under him but you know we will be competitive and go deep in tournaments. Yes, we haven't gone all the way but we have the capability. I used to punch the air if we got out of a group. Last 8 is the minimum expectation for Euros 24, anything more is anybody's to seize. |  | | |
| Euro 2024 on 09:06 - Dec 4 with 1940 views | daveB |
| Euro 2024 on 22:24 - Dec 3 by Benny_the_Ball |
True but goodness me the draw was very kind to England in 2018. They even managed to secure an easier route in the knockout stages by finishing 2nd in the group. This luck of the draw has struck again for Euro 2024. [Post edited 3 Dec 2023 22:28]
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It's not luck, you win your qualifying group you get a better draw and if you do that the draws remain easy for the next one.
In that World Cup we qualified with 1 game to spare so knew what we had to do and knew what the easier path was so threw that belgium game and got the easier half of the draw
Was the same in the Euros knew what they had to do in the last game to avoid the French, Italy and Spanish [Post edited 4 Dec 2023 9:11]
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| Euro 2024 on 09:53 - Dec 4 with 1893 views | hantssi |
| Euro 2024 on 09:06 - Dec 4 by daveB |
It's not luck, you win your qualifying group you get a better draw and if you do that the draws remain easy for the next one.
In that World Cup we qualified with 1 game to spare so knew what we had to do and knew what the easier path was so threw that belgium game and got the easier half of the draw
Was the same in the Euros knew what they had to do in the last game to avoid the French, Italy and Spanish [Post edited 4 Dec 2023 9:11]
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Seriously, we “threw” the Belgium game??!!
We came up against 2 good teams and lost against them 3 times! | | | |
| Euro 2024 on 09:56 - Dec 4 with 1887 views | daveB |
you never know what can change in a few months, if current form continues I'd expect Sterling to replace Rashford in the squad but players can come from nowhere. Phillips needs a move in January to stay in the squad probably at the expense of Henderson
Should be pointed out we are back to a squad of 23 for this one rather 26 so less room for fringe players
Key for me is if Trent plays in midfield for Liverpool and how well he does as that could be massive for England to have a midfield of Trent, Rice and Bellingham | | | |
| Euro 2024 on 10:47 - Dec 4 with 1847 views | Rangersw12 |
If anyone is planning on going , Eurostar to Brussels is only 100 quid and easy to get to Frankfurt from there | | | |
| Euro 2024 on 10:47 - Dec 4 with 1848 views | Juzzie |
| Euro 2024 on 09:53 - Dec 4 by hantssi |
Seriously, we “threw” the Belgium game??!!
We came up against 2 good teams and lost against them 3 times! |
I'm not sure we threw it but having already qualified and it being the last group game, it was one that losing certainly wasn't going to be a problem and in fact made the path 'easier'.
Had we topped the group we would have faced Japan, Brazil and France prior to the final.
As it happened, we had Columbia, Sweden and Croatia.
Given the 'choice' I'd have taken the latter any day.
Again, not saying we threw the Belgium game but I've always wondered if the result wasn't one that mattered. Same with Macedonia the other week. Players clearly not getting out of 1st gear because there was no need to. | | | |
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| Euro 2024 on 10:52 - Dec 4 with 1844 views | BlackAndGoldRanger |
Going to the Slovenia game in Cologne. Had flights in my basket as the draw was made and checked them out when it was confirmed. £120 - Result. Same flights now £350. Hoping the airlines add some slots. | | | |
| Euro 2024 on 10:52 - Dec 4 with 1844 views | Juzzie |
"That, to my mind, was one of the great strengths of certain German squads in the recent past, and Spain. It helped them conquer the Barca v Real rivalries in the squad, and for England it's got rid of that Man Utd v the world mentality that Ferguson insisted upon - all sitting at separate tables etc."
Is that right Clive? SAF actually managed to exert such an influence on his squad that the Man U players were so scared to do anything else other than all sit together while on England duty?
What reason would SAF have to do that..... To continue the 'Man v everyone else' mentality or to destabilise England? I'd probably go for the former but either way it's a bit OTT but I guess all he cared about was Man U to the detriment of everyone else. | | | |
| Euro 2024 on 11:08 - Dec 4 with 1827 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Euro 2024 on 10:52 - Dec 4 by BlackAndGoldRanger |
Going to the Slovenia game in Cologne. Had flights in my basket as the draw was made and checked them out when it was confirmed. £120 - Result. Same flights now £350. Hoping the airlines add some slots. |
You can get the train there in about four hours from KX for a lot cheaper! [Post edited 4 Dec 2023 11:08]
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| Euro 2024 on 14:19 - Dec 4 with 1730 views | BAWHoops |
| Euro 2024 on 10:15 - Dec 3 by Northernr |
Both things can be true.
Statistically, results, tournament finishes, he's one of our best ever managers. "Oh yeh but he's been blessed with a great squad of players"... well look at the bloody squad Eriksson had, and what he did with it.
But, also, he was caught out being too cautious against Croatia and Italy in big moments. I discount France, personally. They're a great team, we were right with them all the way, the game is settled on a defensive clearance made at one end and not the other, and us missing a penalty. Not Southgate's fault at all that one, just one of those things.
It's nuanced, right? One thing I've really liked about his reign is he's made it more like a club squad where it's the same group of players all the time, so they can foster a group mentsality and a proper style of play. It's really difficult to break into the group (he kept Grealish and Madison waiting ages when the press were baying) but it's also really difficult to fall out of - he'll keep faith with you a long time.
That, to my mind, was one of the great strengths of certain German squads in the recent past, and Spain. It helped them conquer the Barca v Real rivalries in the squad, and for England it's got rid of that Man Utd v the world mentality that Ferguson insisted upon - all sitting at separate tables etc. There's now a great togetherness and spirit about England which Southgate is responsible for prioritising, fostering and building. It's certainly a lot more effective than all of his predecessors just chopping and changing and slinging whoever's had a few good Prem games in there. We went to South Africa not even knowing who the bloody goalkeeper would be, and look how that went.
But, at the same time, as all managers do when they're lucky enough to be in the job a long time (see Holloway towards the end of his first spell here) he is becoming a bit obstinate, stubborn, with logic-defying favourites, and tying himself in knots with his reasons and justifications. We're leaving Sterling out because his club form isn't good, but Phillips gets picked despite never playing for his club, Maguire is in despite playing like a complete cnt for 18 months, and Henderson is in despite being 33 and playing Conference North standard football in front of 600 people. He's basically picking Maguire now, even in friendly games where you think maybe take him out of the firing line and have a look at somebody out, it feels to me as a 'fck you I'm in charge' sort of attitude.
So we'll see how the tournament goes. I fear he might have gone on a tournament too long. He seemed to be minded to resign and then got talked out of it, which isn't great. But then, Bellingham fit, Kane fit, Maguire pulls his hamstring, Henderson turns his Grindr on and gets locked up, we've got a hell of a chance. Fascinating summer ahead, I'm genuinely excited about it.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
I think this is a fair assessment of Southgate, what also should be mentioned is how much more we regularly utterly dick on teams.
6-2 v Iran, 4-0 v Ukraine in the last two tournaments. Plus 3-0 v Wales and 3-0 v Senegal. That's what proper contenders do.
We also smash teams up in qualifying like Macedonia, Bulgaria etc and run 6's and 7's past them, which never used to happen.
Fans often go on about Croatia in the semi's, but we were completely spent by then. The team was a cobbled together group of likely lads (midfield 3 of Alli, Lingard and Henderson) backed up by Fabien Delph, Phil Jones, Welbeck and Gary Cahill. It was a golden run for an average side that had put so much emotion into the Colombia game they were always going to run out of puff.
The final v Italy stings, and if Rashford hits his pen 5 inches to the right we likely win the whole thing.
But we were also going into that game with Rice and PHillips in CM who at the time had zero experience of any European football and played for mid table Prem sides.
We weren't the team then that we are now which is, let's be frank, absolutely stacked. There are 2 weak spots in the side, Maguire and whoever plays alongside Rice (which if Phillips gets a move in Jan likely won't be an issue anymore).
I actually think we will do it this summer. If we win the group we don't face France until the semis. It feels as though the last 6 years and Project Southgate has all been leading up to this |  |
| http://blogandwhitehoops.wordpress.com/ |
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| Euro 2024 on 14:21 - Dec 4 with 1729 views | BlackAndGoldRanger |
| Euro 2024 on 11:08 - Dec 4 by BazzaInTheLoft |
You can get the train there in about four hours from KX for a lot cheaper! [Post edited 4 Dec 2023 11:08]
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Thanks Bazza, I will be trying to get to more games so will use that route! | | | |
| Euro 2024 on 14:24 - Dec 4 with 1725 views | TheChef |
Southgate has done a brilliant job for England but has continued to be inflexible in his in-game management and hasn't learnt from his mistakes.
You can't have everything unfortunately.
Still very happy to have him as manager though. |  |
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| Euro 2024 on 14:36 - Dec 4 with 1720 views | daveB |
| Euro 2024 on 09:53 - Dec 4 by hantssi |
Seriously, we “threw” the Belgium game??!!
We came up against 2 good teams and lost against them 3 times! |
threw probably too strong but he rested Kane and a few others, losing that was the best result and gave us Colombia and Sweden rather than a quarter final with Brazil and a semi v France
I remember Neville and a few others on Tv basically screaming that England had to lose that Belgium game and it handed them a dream chance especially when Spain then lost to Russia
[Post edited 4 Dec 2023 14:43]
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| Euro 2024 on 14:40 - Dec 4 with 1709 views | Watford_Ranger |
| Euro 2024 on 11:08 - Dec 4 by BazzaInTheLoft |
You can get the train there in about four hours from KX for a lot cheaper! [Post edited 4 Dec 2023 11:08]
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Had a very quick look earlier and it wasn’t showing as tickets being available yet but the Interrailing pass could be an option. Was showing as £175 return with a bit of travel in Germany. Some more learned travellers will know better.
Hotels predictably less appealing. £300 a night for something mediocre vaguely near the centre of Cologne. | | | |
| Euro 2024 on 18:05 - Dec 4 with 1651 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Euro 2024 on 09:06 - Dec 4 by daveB |
It's not luck, you win your qualifying group you get a better draw and if you do that the draws remain easy for the next one.
In that World Cup we qualified with 1 game to spare so knew what we had to do and knew what the easier path was so threw that belgium game and got the easier half of the draw
Was the same in the Euros knew what they had to do in the last game to avoid the French, Italy and Spanish [Post edited 4 Dec 2023 9:11]
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It is luck when you finish second but get a better draw than the team who finished first. I guess they 'threw' the 3rd place play-off against Belgium too.
With the current players at his disposal, Gareth shouldn't be looking to avoid anyone. It conveys the wrong message to the players and sends them into matches with an inferiority complex. In the Euros, for example, England ultimately didn't avoid Italy and lost (at home).
No one wins major tournaments by avoiding top opposition. Eventually you will have to beat the stronger nations to win a trophy. It's all fair and well if your objective is to go deep but England should be looking to win and that requires a positive mindset, especially against the top nations. | | | |
| Euro 2024 on 21:07 - Dec 4 with 1580 views | Rangersw12 |
| Euro 2024 on 14:40 - Dec 4 by Watford_Ranger |
Had a very quick look earlier and it wasn’t showing as tickets being available yet but the Interrailing pass could be an option. Was showing as £175 return with a bit of travel in Germany. Some more learned travellers will know better.
Hotels predictably less appealing. £300 a night for something mediocre vaguely near the centre of Cologne. |
We're staying in Mainz which is 20 mins from Frankfurt as the hotels are about 50% cheaper | | | |
| Euro 2024 on 21:48 - Dec 4 with 1569 views | daveB |
| Euro 2024 on 18:05 - Dec 4 by Benny_the_Ball |
It is luck when you finish second but get a better draw than the team who finished first. I guess they 'threw' the 3rd place play-off against Belgium too.
With the current players at his disposal, Gareth shouldn't be looking to avoid anyone. It conveys the wrong message to the players and sends them into matches with an inferiority complex. In the Euros, for example, England ultimately didn't avoid Italy and lost (at home).
No one wins major tournaments by avoiding top opposition. Eventually you will have to beat the stronger nations to win a trophy. It's all fair and well if your objective is to go deep but England should be looking to win and that requires a positive mindset, especially against the top nations. |
They got themselves in a position where they could see the draw and path to the final with a game to spare. Normally in every other tournament we qualified for we still needed something in the final game so never had that option before but the last 3 under Southgate we've qualified with a game to spare. It's what teams like Germany often did, it's not luck it's taking advantage of a situation.
Getting into a position where we could choose to rest a few players and if we lose oh well never mind it works out for us wasn't luck. Belgium tried the same thing that night resting several players, neither team wanted to win that one but would never admit it, was a bit of a freak as several big nations were dreadful in the group stage and a few knocked out early.
I think Belgium were a better side than England and if both teams went full strength would have probably been the same but they did the smart thing.
Plenty of teams have won things avoiding the top teams until the later stages, look at the French route to the final in 98, Germans in 2002, Italy in 2006, you shouldn't be scared of playing those teams but the further you can go in the tournament without playing the top sides the better. It takes an outstanding team to face top teams in every knockout game and win the thing you have to be very pragmatic with these things.
[Post edited 4 Dec 2023 21:50]
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| Euro 2024 on 10:32 - Jan 25 with 1138 views | BlackAndGoldRanger |
Bump.
2nd ballot results out if you applied. Nothing doing for me. | | | |
| Euro 2024 on 10:35 - Jan 25 with 1118 views | aston_hoop |
| Euro 2024 on 10:32 - Jan 25 by BlackAndGoldRanger |
Bump.
2nd ballot results out if you applied. Nothing doing for me. |
Nothing again for me. Going to look at the Copa America instead! |  |
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| Euro 2024 on 10:39 - Jan 25 with 1089 views | PlanetHonneywood |
Unfortunately, we really should have been European champions! |  |
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| Euro 2024 on 10:52 - Jan 25 with 1067 views | Rangersw12 |
| Euro 2024 on 10:32 - Jan 25 by BlackAndGoldRanger |
Bump.
2nd ballot results out if you applied. Nothing doing for me. |
Nothing for me although going out there anyway 🍻 | | | |
| Euro 2024 on 07:29 - May 2 with 696 views | BlackAndGoldRanger |
Another Bump.
100,000 tickets on sale today from 10am - Mainly resale, extra tickets now stadiums have been organised and restricted view. | | | |
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