| NSR Bury 19:14 - Aug 4 with 9256 views | waynekerr55 |
what a mess
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| NSR Bury on 15:58 - Nov 5 with 691 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| NSR Bury on 14:50 - Nov 5 by Chief |
- Gently no, with balanced and respect yes. You are seemingly incapable of doing this though. For no real reason. You must have some hidden agenda. Just disagreeing with their methods wouldn't make sense. Literally every thing they've ever done and are doing you slant against them. Notice I do not do treat the Americans with such default contempt.
- 'wretched' - silly unwarranted petulant overreaction again.
- the Americans as 'experienced investors' should be prepared for the eventuality shouldn't they? According to you they've been willing to pay for these shares for years. Why suddenly 'chaos' at this point?
- No doubt the Americans may use it as an excuse for their actions but you and they would obviously be being disingenuous. The money would come from the Americans personal accounts - not the football clubs. So how or why would it suddenly result in a fire sale, cash call or any other detrimental thing they may wish to inflict on the club is not a result of the trusts action. But they may twist it that way who knows?
- Other clubs? You actually mean other potential club owners who were planning to buy clubs and sideline supporters trusts.
- who's wallowing in anything? The trust are taking action to remedy their wrongs - the complete opposite of what you are claiming.
- or don't pay £5 then moan and attack them at every opportunity and achieve nothing see. The trust are doing something - what about you? Nothing meekly drifting along with you star spangled glasses on. |
Americans and their employees are running the club quite well in the middle of a pandemic. The club appears to be stable despite a loss of income and had a good transfer window for the first time in quite a while. The team is performing well.
The Trust on the other hand are having meetings and giving substantial sums to third party ambulance chasers for a potential court case which will see the owners given a short term expensive headache and the Trust jettissoned out of the club for good. I do not see a good future for them. You must realise that the customer / fan always pays unexpected costs in the end. They can go elsewhere of course.
As it happpens the Trust is predominatly Welsh and the owners are predominantly USA citizens. I a proudly Welsh myself so would naturally have a pro Welsh view. Unfortuanely not in this case.
The legal action will confirm including fans in Swansea city was a very bad idea not to be repeated . It may work in Germany but not in south Wales where the fans are simply not so sophisticated. [Post edited 5 Nov 2020 15:59]
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| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| NSR Bury on 16:43 - Nov 5 with 678 views | Chief |
| NSR Bury on 15:58 - Nov 5 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Americans and their employees are running the club quite well in the middle of a pandemic. The club appears to be stable despite a loss of income and had a good transfer window for the first time in quite a while. The team is performing well.
The Trust on the other hand are having meetings and giving substantial sums to third party ambulance chasers for a potential court case which will see the owners given a short term expensive headache and the Trust jettissoned out of the club for good. I do not see a good future for them. You must realise that the customer / fan always pays unexpected costs in the end. They can go elsewhere of course.
As it happpens the Trust is predominatly Welsh and the owners are predominantly USA citizens. I a proudly Welsh myself so would naturally have a pro Welsh view. Unfortuanely not in this case.
The legal action will confirm including fans in Swansea city was a very bad idea not to be repeated . It may work in Germany but not in south Wales where the fans are simply not so sophisticated. [Post edited 5 Nov 2020 15:59]
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- Don't disagree.
- Ah putting the foundations in ready to blame the trust as and when form tails off. 'having meetings' wow how terrible! They've engaged the services of a professional - something you've advocated in other fields. But of course another twist to bash the trust with.
-Fan always pays unexpected costs - that's literally a random soundbite picked out of the air isn't it.
- You're nationalistic views are indeed baffling. Hate the trust who as you point out are mostly local. Prepared to conpletely ignore the Americans missteps and indiscretions and you've got some strange aversion to English legal people too. I struggle to see the relevance of their nationality myself.
- How will it do that? Are you saying the Americans are going to ruin the club once the trust have left the board? |  |
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| NSR Bury on 18:22 - Nov 5 with 668 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| NSR Bury on 16:43 - Nov 5 by Chief |
- Don't disagree.
- Ah putting the foundations in ready to blame the trust as and when form tails off. 'having meetings' wow how terrible! They've engaged the services of a professional - something you've advocated in other fields. But of course another twist to bash the trust with.
-Fan always pays unexpected costs - that's literally a random soundbite picked out of the air isn't it.
- You're nationalistic views are indeed baffling. Hate the trust who as you point out are mostly local. Prepared to conpletely ignore the Americans missteps and indiscretions and you've got some strange aversion to English legal people too. I struggle to see the relevance of their nationality myself.
- How will it do that? Are you saying the Americans are going to ruin the club once the trust have left the board? |
You bet I've got an aversion to English legal people. Dallying along with them is going to be very expensive. Its just a matter of who pays their bills. Over the stretch the good people of Swansea or the club itself will pay them one way or another. Either in direct payments or future increases in season tickects. Nothing strange about it.
The US owners if hit by a big bill will make sure they get their money back from the business. That is another blindingly obvious observation. The fans will pay and so will people on the club payroll in my opinion. There is no free lunch. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| NSR Bury on 19:15 - Nov 5 with 660 views | Chief |
| NSR Bury on 18:22 - Nov 5 by ReslovenSwan1 |
You bet I've got an aversion to English legal people. Dallying along with them is going to be very expensive. Its just a matter of who pays their bills. Over the stretch the good people of Swansea or the club itself will pay them one way or another. Either in direct payments or future increases in season tickects. Nothing strange about it.
The US owners if hit by a big bill will make sure they get their money back from the business. That is another blindingly obvious observation. The fans will pay and so will people on the club payroll in my opinion. There is no free lunch. |
- So you are saying the Americans are going to deliberately handicap and possibly take money out of the club then?
Didn't you say they weren't nscrupulous earlier!?
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| NSR Bury on 20:56 - Nov 5 with 637 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| NSR Bury on 19:15 - Nov 5 by Chief |
- So you are saying the Americans are going to deliberately handicap and possibly take money out of the club then?
Didn't you say they weren't nscrupulous earlier!?
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Well of course they are going to take money out of the the club. Its common sense and is not unscrupulous at all.
I would imagine they could take a loan off Swansea city to pay the bill. They will need roughly £25m. All profits from the club will pay off the loan say over 5 years and this will be tax free. They may take a £25m loan off one of their billionaire associates with around 50%+ of the club up as collateral, perhaps.
The club will have to generate a £5m surplus per season. They could save £5m by shutting the academy and laying off all non essential staff. An extra £150 on season tickets would generate £7.5m over 5 years if they can get 10,000 season tickets. Selling 2 or three fringe players for £7.5m or so and perhaps a cash call to the tune of £5m for the rest.
The more we debate so pleasantly the more I realise the Trust people simply have not looked at outcomes. Good to hear the Trust are making good progress. Swansea really needs a raft of new redundancies and Cardiff city are looking to expand their academy to fill the void. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| NSR Bury on 21:17 - Nov 5 with 628 views | Chief |
| NSR Bury on 20:56 - Nov 5 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Well of course they are going to take money out of the the club. Its common sense and is not unscrupulous at all.
I would imagine they could take a loan off Swansea city to pay the bill. They will need roughly £25m. All profits from the club will pay off the loan say over 5 years and this will be tax free. They may take a £25m loan off one of their billionaire associates with around 50%+ of the club up as collateral, perhaps.
The club will have to generate a £5m surplus per season. They could save £5m by shutting the academy and laying off all non essential staff. An extra £150 on season tickets would generate £7.5m over 5 years if they can get 10,000 season tickets. Selling 2 or three fringe players for £7.5m or so and perhaps a cash call to the tune of £5m for the rest.
The more we debate so pleasantly the more I realise the Trust people simply have not looked at outcomes. Good to hear the Trust are making good progress. Swansea really needs a raft of new redundancies and Cardiff city are looking to expand their academy to fill the void. |
Well thank you for comprehensively making the perfect argument for the Trust taking these unscrupulous blood suckers to court&get money that can used to help the club later down the line.
If they are capable of doing what you are describing we need rid of them ASAP.
Join the trust my friend. [Post edited 5 Nov 2020 21:28]
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| NSR Bury on 21:48 - Nov 5 with 624 views | Garyjack |
| NSR Bury on 20:56 - Nov 5 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Well of course they are going to take money out of the the club. Its common sense and is not unscrupulous at all.
I would imagine they could take a loan off Swansea city to pay the bill. They will need roughly £25m. All profits from the club will pay off the loan say over 5 years and this will be tax free. They may take a £25m loan off one of their billionaire associates with around 50%+ of the club up as collateral, perhaps.
The club will have to generate a £5m surplus per season. They could save £5m by shutting the academy and laying off all non essential staff. An extra £150 on season tickets would generate £7.5m over 5 years if they can get 10,000 season tickets. Selling 2 or three fringe players for £7.5m or so and perhaps a cash call to the tune of £5m for the rest.
The more we debate so pleasantly the more I realise the Trust people simply have not looked at outcomes. Good to hear the Trust are making good progress. Swansea really needs a raft of new redundancies and Cardiff city are looking to expand their academy to fill the void. |
And now we finally reach the point whereby you have clearly lost your mind! Firstly, what you are suggesting is fraud, ie: theft. Secondly, nobody (Billionaire or not) is going to loan the club £25m. Thirdly, if the yanks raised season ticket prices by £150, they would be lucky to sell 500 let alone 10,000! So what do they propose then? Raising match day ticket prices to £50 or whatever? We'd end up with crowds of 3 or 4,000 at best! Even less as we see the side tumbling down the league as we sell our players to offset the cost! £7.5m for 2 or 3 fringe players? That's a cracker! |  | | |
| NSR Bury on 12:02 - Nov 6 with 594 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| NSR Bury on 21:48 - Nov 5 by Garyjack |
And now we finally reach the point whereby you have clearly lost your mind! Firstly, what you are suggesting is fraud, ie: theft. Secondly, nobody (Billionaire or not) is going to loan the club £25m. Thirdly, if the yanks raised season ticket prices by £150, they would be lucky to sell 500 let alone 10,000! So what do they propose then? Raising match day ticket prices to £50 or whatever? We'd end up with crowds of 3 or 4,000 at best! Even less as we see the side tumbling down the league as we sell our players to offset the cost! £7.5m for 2 or 3 fringe players? That's a cracker! |
What I am suggesting is not theft or fraud. Business people regularly take loans from their own companies. Its business it is in the open and transparent. The US owners have many billionaire associates a level above Morgan and Jenkins. Although they have friendly relations with the Asian well healed they will still want collateral. That collerateral is Swansea city football club shares. If the US people do not pay the loan the billionaire picks up the club for £25m. This is one scenario.
There are a whole host of other legal avenues which can save the owners spending their own cash. For example they could issue new shares to the billionaire at $10 in 2021 and buy them back in 2026 at $11.6. This is called 'hedging'. I am no expert but Kaplan should understand it pretty well. This means a 4% return for the associate or £800,000 pa.
This means savings of an extra £5m pa. Redundancies, increase season tickets prices and tickets, closing the academy, a few players sales on top of those already budgetted for. I do not not have the exact numbers of course its just an estimate. Prices rises sales and redundancies.
You are very naiive if you think there are no consequences for the club in the event of a £21m award fro the Trust. Hey I knew that anyway, you must have known in your heart of hearts anyway but just did not think it through. It takes an anorak like me to do that for you.
The good news is that the circumstances have changed. The going rate for a struggling PL team is not £100m but £200m based on the Burnley offer. Suing for £21m is looking a very poor option given that the team is one of the favourites for promotion and is in the best form since the summer shutdown. The legal action route requires some pretty tough justification.
The selling of extra players for £7.5m is not that outlandish. Celina and Peterson went for £4m and barely got a kick under Cooper in 2020. [Post edited 6 Nov 2020 12:04]
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| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| NSR Bury on 12:12 - Nov 6 with 590 views | Chief |
| NSR Bury on 12:02 - Nov 6 by ReslovenSwan1 |
What I am suggesting is not theft or fraud. Business people regularly take loans from their own companies. Its business it is in the open and transparent. The US owners have many billionaire associates a level above Morgan and Jenkins. Although they have friendly relations with the Asian well healed they will still want collateral. That collerateral is Swansea city football club shares. If the US people do not pay the loan the billionaire picks up the club for £25m. This is one scenario.
There are a whole host of other legal avenues which can save the owners spending their own cash. For example they could issue new shares to the billionaire at $10 in 2021 and buy them back in 2026 at $11.6. This is called 'hedging'. I am no expert but Kaplan should understand it pretty well. This means a 4% return for the associate or £800,000 pa.
This means savings of an extra £5m pa. Redundancies, increase season tickets prices and tickets, closing the academy, a few players sales on top of those already budgetted for. I do not not have the exact numbers of course its just an estimate. Prices rises sales and redundancies.
You are very naiive if you think there are no consequences for the club in the event of a £21m award fro the Trust. Hey I knew that anyway, you must have known in your heart of hearts anyway but just did not think it through. It takes an anorak like me to do that for you.
The good news is that the circumstances have changed. The going rate for a struggling PL team is not £100m but £200m based on the Burnley offer. Suing for £21m is looking a very poor option given that the team is one of the favourites for promotion and is in the best form since the summer shutdown. The legal action route requires some pretty tough justification.
The selling of extra players for £7.5m is not that outlandish. Celina and Peterson went for £4m and barely got a kick under Cooper in 2020. [Post edited 6 Nov 2020 12:04]
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Why would they do any of these things? Shouldn't they be happy about acquiring the trust's shares seeing as we're going to get promoted&there'll be queues of people wanting to buy them at Premier League prices? | |
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| NSR Bury on 13:28 - Nov 6 with 573 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| NSR Bury on 12:12 - Nov 6 by Chief |
Why would they do any of these things? Shouldn't they be happy about acquiring the trust's shares seeing as we're going to get promoted&there'll be queues of people wanting to buy them at Premier League prices? |
They are going to get a £21m bill in theory to be paid off pdq. The fans like to label them hedgefunders. Kaplan used to run a company specialising in this aparently. Levien is not in this business as far as i can see. They will do what the know and hedge the risk. They will be betting Swansea get promoted in the 5 years period with no cash of their own going to the Trust.
The £25m cost will be squeesed from the assett. £5m per season plus interest paid for by savings in the academy, extra charges on season tickets and extra player sales. The trust is making good progress. Good progress in taking the club backwards with more hard medicine. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| NSR Bury on 16:36 - Nov 6 with 565 views | Chief |
| NSR Bury on 13:28 - Nov 6 by ReslovenSwan1 |
They are going to get a £21m bill in theory to be paid off pdq. The fans like to label them hedgefunders. Kaplan used to run a company specialising in this aparently. Levien is not in this business as far as i can see. They will do what the know and hedge the risk. They will be betting Swansea get promoted in the 5 years period with no cash of their own going to the Trust.
The £25m cost will be squeesed from the assett. £5m per season plus interest paid for by savings in the academy, extra charges on season tickets and extra player sales. The trust is making good progress. Good progress in taking the club backwards with more hard medicine. |
- So you're now saying they are hedgefund!?
- so you're saying they would take money out of the club then? | |
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| NSR Bury on 18:33 - Nov 6 with 552 views | Garyjack |
| NSR Bury on 12:02 - Nov 6 by ReslovenSwan1 |
What I am suggesting is not theft or fraud. Business people regularly take loans from their own companies. Its business it is in the open and transparent. The US owners have many billionaire associates a level above Morgan and Jenkins. Although they have friendly relations with the Asian well healed they will still want collateral. That collerateral is Swansea city football club shares. If the US people do not pay the loan the billionaire picks up the club for £25m. This is one scenario.
There are a whole host of other legal avenues which can save the owners spending their own cash. For example they could issue new shares to the billionaire at $10 in 2021 and buy them back in 2026 at $11.6. This is called 'hedging'. I am no expert but Kaplan should understand it pretty well. This means a 4% return for the associate or £800,000 pa.
This means savings of an extra £5m pa. Redundancies, increase season tickets prices and tickets, closing the academy, a few players sales on top of those already budgetted for. I do not not have the exact numbers of course its just an estimate. Prices rises sales and redundancies.
You are very naiive if you think there are no consequences for the club in the event of a £21m award fro the Trust. Hey I knew that anyway, you must have known in your heart of hearts anyway but just did not think it through. It takes an anorak like me to do that for you.
The good news is that the circumstances have changed. The going rate for a struggling PL team is not £100m but £200m based on the Burnley offer. Suing for £21m is looking a very poor option given that the team is one of the favourites for promotion and is in the best form since the summer shutdown. The legal action route requires some pretty tough justification.
The selling of extra players for £7.5m is not that outlandish. Celina and Peterson went for £4m and barely got a kick under Cooper in 2020. [Post edited 6 Nov 2020 12:04]
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I am well aware that business people take loans from their own companies, but what you are suggesting is one company taking out a loan and giving the proceeds of that loan to another company. That, is illegal.
But i'll say it again. Billionaires or not, nobody is going to loan SCFC £25m in it's current financial position, and even if they did somehow manage to pull it off. your scenarios for paying back this massive loan would send the club to the wall, and leave Kaplan and Levien to take up residence in the Delaware River wearing concrete boots!
By the way, you didn't address my points on your crazy notion of the club selling 10,000 season tickets on a mark up of £150, and if you can find the time, can you kindly give me the names of 3 fringe players we have who would be worth anything near £7.5m and who wouldn't severely weaken our squad without being replaced. | | | |
| NSR Bury on 19:29 - Nov 6 with 535 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| NSR Bury on 18:33 - Nov 6 by Garyjack |
I am well aware that business people take loans from their own companies, but what you are suggesting is one company taking out a loan and giving the proceeds of that loan to another company. That, is illegal.
But i'll say it again. Billionaires or not, nobody is going to loan SCFC £25m in it's current financial position, and even if they did somehow manage to pull it off. your scenarios for paying back this massive loan would send the club to the wall, and leave Kaplan and Levien to take up residence in the Delaware River wearing concrete boots!
By the way, you didn't address my points on your crazy notion of the club selling 10,000 season tickets on a mark up of £150, and if you can find the time, can you kindly give me the names of 3 fringe players we have who would be worth anything near £7.5m and who wouldn't severely weaken our squad without being replaced. |
I am suggesting there are many ways to do something via Swansea city that does not invlove the US peope paying any of their own cash. I am not an expert but there are a lot of financial mechanisms. One idea is given below, but llike I say Kapaln is the expert in this and I am not.
One I suggested is hedging. It is complex business but invloves buying an asset at one price and selling it back at a greater or lower price at a later date. The money invested by the billionaire is used to buy Swansea city shares or options for £25m worth at one price and sold at an increased price say 5-10 year later. The £25m investment is owned by Swansea city and loaned to the owners at commercial rates to pay the Trust.
The owners would then need to pay the club back over 5-10 years using their legitimate profits from club activities including increase season tickets redundancies, players sales and possible land sales if appropriate. The increase in season ticket prices will need market assessement of course. It will have to go up for sure. Buy how much is only a guess. Extending the loan period to 10 years would make it easier for fans .
Three fringe players that could be sold include Benda, Manning, Latibeaudiere, Garrick and Cullen if they develop. Brandon Cooper maybe. Asoro may have some residual value and even Grimes has been benched recently.
Here I am again talking outcomes. Over to you Gary. You tell me how things will develop in the case of a £21m Trust win. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| NSR Bury on 19:34 - Nov 6 with 527 views | Chief |
| NSR Bury on 19:29 - Nov 6 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I am suggesting there are many ways to do something via Swansea city that does not invlove the US peope paying any of their own cash. I am not an expert but there are a lot of financial mechanisms. One idea is given below, but llike I say Kapaln is the expert in this and I am not.
One I suggested is hedging. It is complex business but invloves buying an asset at one price and selling it back at a greater or lower price at a later date. The money invested by the billionaire is used to buy Swansea city shares or options for £25m worth at one price and sold at an increased price say 5-10 year later. The £25m investment is owned by Swansea city and loaned to the owners at commercial rates to pay the Trust.
The owners would then need to pay the club back over 5-10 years using their legitimate profits from club activities including increase season tickets redundancies, players sales and possible land sales if appropriate. The increase in season ticket prices will need market assessement of course. It will have to go up for sure. Buy how much is only a guess. Extending the loan period to 10 years would make it easier for fans .
Three fringe players that could be sold include Benda, Manning, Latibeaudiere, Garrick and Cullen if they develop. Brandon Cooper maybe. Asoro may have some residual value and even Grimes has been benched recently.
Here I am again talking outcomes. Over to you Gary. You tell me how things will develop in the case of a £21m Trust win. |
But they are definitely not a hedgefund?
And definitely not unscrupulous?
And definitely good for Swansea?
What an almighty hole you've dug yourself into here
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| NSR Bury on 19:38 - Nov 6 with 525 views | onehunglow |
I have asked as to why there is a wish to take the sellers to Court.
Im grateful for the response but I fail to see just how it moves the club forward. If the action,as it seems to be,is simply about vengeance then I would be even more concerned .
Do people want action simply because some become rich in such a poor city region.
Plenty of back stabbing went on for sure and that is the reason why we have never maintained our club at the top table.
We unfolded in hate and dmstrust in the 80s and it s the same mindset now.More than 30 yrs on.
The sooner somebody with class and nous take us over and truly buries the past the better. I am pretty sure we havent had any offers to buy because we have a reputation -a bad one-one that stinks of distrust and duplicity. |  |
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| NSR Bury on 20:05 - Nov 6 with 519 views | Chief |
| NSR Bury on 19:38 - Nov 6 by onehunglow |
I have asked as to why there is a wish to take the sellers to Court.
Im grateful for the response but I fail to see just how it moves the club forward. If the action,as it seems to be,is simply about vengeance then I would be even more concerned .
Do people want action simply because some become rich in such a poor city region.
Plenty of back stabbing went on for sure and that is the reason why we have never maintained our club at the top table.
We unfolded in hate and dmstrust in the 80s and it s the same mindset now.More than 30 yrs on.
The sooner somebody with class and nous take us over and truly buries the past the better. I am pretty sure we havent had any offers to buy because we have a reputation -a bad one-one that stinks of distrust and duplicity. |
- Revenge aside, if the trust if successful will receive a consideration lump sum which will be used to safe guard the future of the club. The trust have little or no influence since the sale so may as well try&get paid&still have little/influence.
- It shouldn't really affect the club at all - the money will have to come from the Americans own pockets. Any domesday scenario they decide to inflict upon the club beyond that will justify many people's initial fears. The trust cannot be held to ransom by that though.
- The only reason people begrudge the sell outs getting rich is due to the way they did it. Deceitfully and potentially illegally. | |
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| NSR Bury on 20:19 - Nov 6 with 516 views | Garyjack |
| NSR Bury on 19:29 - Nov 6 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I am suggesting there are many ways to do something via Swansea city that does not invlove the US peope paying any of their own cash. I am not an expert but there are a lot of financial mechanisms. One idea is given below, but llike I say Kapaln is the expert in this and I am not.
One I suggested is hedging. It is complex business but invloves buying an asset at one price and selling it back at a greater or lower price at a later date. The money invested by the billionaire is used to buy Swansea city shares or options for £25m worth at one price and sold at an increased price say 5-10 year later. The £25m investment is owned by Swansea city and loaned to the owners at commercial rates to pay the Trust.
The owners would then need to pay the club back over 5-10 years using their legitimate profits from club activities including increase season tickets redundancies, players sales and possible land sales if appropriate. The increase in season ticket prices will need market assessement of course. It will have to go up for sure. Buy how much is only a guess. Extending the loan period to 10 years would make it easier for fans .
Three fringe players that could be sold include Benda, Manning, Latibeaudiere, Garrick and Cullen if they develop. Brandon Cooper maybe. Asoro may have some residual value and even Grimes has been benched recently.
Here I am again talking outcomes. Over to you Gary. You tell me how things will develop in the case of a £21m Trust win. |
"Here I am again talking outcomes. Over to you Gary. You tell me how things will develop in the case of a £21m Trust win."
Not my problem, the Trusts or the clubs. They should surely have planned for this themselves, especially concerning the circumstances surrounding the sale. I mean they are seriously experienced and successful U.S businessmen after all. Or do you think they may just be foolish clowns who thought they could pull something like this off and make a quick killing? Because in the event of a Trust victory, that is exactly what they are, and is plain to see.
But of course they have options.
They can pay the money or raise it themselves. They'll have no problem getting it back as you say the club is on an upward trajectory and will soon be worth £200m when we are back in the Premier league.
They could go after the sell outs for misleading them?
Or they could hand over shares in the club to the tune of £21m at todays prices and wipe out their investment.
They would have got themselves into this mess, and it's down to them to get themselves out of it. Simple really. | | | |
| NSR Bury on 20:31 - Nov 6 with 505 views | onehunglow |
The money will have to come from the American s pockets?
That is what worries me
I only wish revenge could be set aside and let' be frank,THAT is the main reason for action and jealousy.
At one time,Jenkins and Dineen and Johnny Clog were heroes and like most things in life ,it goes tits up and now they are villains. Applies to Jenkins but my problem with Dineen was the job he did or rather didnt do.
I "invited" John Clog to ours should he bein our area for a game.
The reaction amongst our site fans was something to behold.
I truly wish I could interview those who sold the club as they did | |
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| NSR Bury on 21:00 - Nov 6 with 496 views | Garyjack |
| NSR Bury on 19:29 - Nov 6 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I am suggesting there are many ways to do something via Swansea city that does not invlove the US peope paying any of their own cash. I am not an expert but there are a lot of financial mechanisms. One idea is given below, but llike I say Kapaln is the expert in this and I am not.
One I suggested is hedging. It is complex business but invloves buying an asset at one price and selling it back at a greater or lower price at a later date. The money invested by the billionaire is used to buy Swansea city shares or options for £25m worth at one price and sold at an increased price say 5-10 year later. The £25m investment is owned by Swansea city and loaned to the owners at commercial rates to pay the Trust.
The owners would then need to pay the club back over 5-10 years using their legitimate profits from club activities including increase season tickets redundancies, players sales and possible land sales if appropriate. The increase in season ticket prices will need market assessement of course. It will have to go up for sure. Buy how much is only a guess. Extending the loan period to 10 years would make it easier for fans .
Three fringe players that could be sold include Benda, Manning, Latibeaudiere, Garrick and Cullen if they develop. Brandon Cooper maybe. Asoro may have some residual value and even Grimes has been benched recently.
Here I am again talking outcomes. Over to you Gary. You tell me how things will develop in the case of a £21m Trust win. |
And if any combination of 3 of the players you've mentioned could be valued at anywhere near £7.5m they would no longer be fringe players but an essential part of the team/squad. | | | |
| NSR Bury on 21:05 - Nov 6 with 488 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| NSR Bury on 20:19 - Nov 6 by Garyjack |
"Here I am again talking outcomes. Over to you Gary. You tell me how things will develop in the case of a £21m Trust win."
Not my problem, the Trusts or the clubs. They should surely have planned for this themselves, especially concerning the circumstances surrounding the sale. I mean they are seriously experienced and successful U.S businessmen after all. Or do you think they may just be foolish clowns who thought they could pull something like this off and make a quick killing? Because in the event of a Trust victory, that is exactly what they are, and is plain to see.
But of course they have options.
They can pay the money or raise it themselves. They'll have no problem getting it back as you say the club is on an upward trajectory and will soon be worth £200m when we are back in the Premier league.
They could go after the sell outs for misleading them?
Or they could hand over shares in the club to the tune of £21m at todays prices and wipe out their investment.
They would have got themselves into this mess, and it's down to them to get themselves out of it. Simple really. |
I have produced a scenario where the legal action win is the club's problem the city's problem and is the fan's problem. It is not the Trusts problem are they will cease to exist as a football entity at least in Swansea until this sorry affair is long forgotten. This could take 3 decades at which point they become irrelevant.
The SCST will be a dormant fund gaining minimal interest with a plunging membership being no longer welcome at the Liberty.
Members seem content with this, but if that is the case they will have let down their community as London ambulance chasers run off with £7-8m back to Surrey for very little work. This is money that should be paying for the derelict academy.
The dim membership will be to blame for backing and voting for failed leaders out to settle scores with no vision most of whom have already legged it. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| NSR Bury on 22:03 - Nov 6 with 477 views | Chief |
| NSR Bury on 21:05 - Nov 6 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I have produced a scenario where the legal action win is the club's problem the city's problem and is the fan's problem. It is not the Trusts problem are they will cease to exist as a football entity at least in Swansea until this sorry affair is long forgotten. This could take 3 decades at which point they become irrelevant.
The SCST will be a dormant fund gaining minimal interest with a plunging membership being no longer welcome at the Liberty.
Members seem content with this, but if that is the case they will have let down their community as London ambulance chasers run off with £7-8m back to Surrey for very little work. This is money that should be paying for the derelict academy.
The dim membership will be to blame for backing and voting for failed leaders out to settle scores with no vision most of whom have already legged it. |
Yet more silliness and lies:
- The legal win will cause the Americans a problem (although not sure why - by your logic nows the time to buy shares), plus you also say they've offered the trust to buy the shares at the same price - presumably they already have these funds then.
- The trust can and will still continue. There are plenty of supporter's trusts that aren't shareholders.
- how do you know how much interest the fund will accrue? More random defaulting to a worst case scenario again.
- Membership has increased recently - maybe because theres progress on the litigation front.
- How would members be not welcome!? Are the Americans somehow going to get hold of the membership names and take away their season tickets!? What a ridiculous statement.
- haha wow so you don't want the trust to go to court, but you want them to pay for fixing the 'derelict' academy!? Under who's watch has this academy become derelict?
- haha well your last sentence makes little sense, but it's pretty obvious the trust is under your skin. You're like a spurned lover. | |
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| NSR Bury on 22:19 - Nov 6 with 477 views | Garyjack |
| NSR Bury on 21:05 - Nov 6 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I have produced a scenario where the legal action win is the club's problem the city's problem and is the fan's problem. It is not the Trusts problem are they will cease to exist as a football entity at least in Swansea until this sorry affair is long forgotten. This could take 3 decades at which point they become irrelevant.
The SCST will be a dormant fund gaining minimal interest with a plunging membership being no longer welcome at the Liberty.
Members seem content with this, but if that is the case they will have let down their community as London ambulance chasers run off with £7-8m back to Surrey for very little work. This is money that should be paying for the derelict academy.
The dim membership will be to blame for backing and voting for failed leaders out to settle scores with no vision most of whom have already legged it. |
Yes, you have produced a scenario which has been pointed out to be extremely flawed with false outcomes.
If the trust win in court, it's not about settling scores, it's about protecting the interests of the club. If the Yanks are not able to take the hit should they lose, then they should never have involved themselves in a sale amid the circumstances surrounding it do you not think?
Of course, in the event of a trust victory, it would be up to the yanks to show what they are made of. Are they legitimate, or are they just like the sellouts who stuck two fingers up to the fans of our club who raised over 200k to save it. More actually as they actually raised funds on top for the "Battle for Britton" fund to pay his wages to return here (there's your trust investment in the club by the way that wasn't matched by the sell outs).
Now then, when all is said and done, if the Yanks do turn out to have the clubs best interests at heart, what's to stop the trust reinvesting? Now in that scenario the Yanks would have paid their dues, and proven their worth.
I really am bemused, astounded actually why you are backing the Yanks and sell outs over the fans of our club. It takes all sorts i suppose. 
Edit: Nobody has 'legged it'. Phil Sumbler and a few others whilst resigning from the board of the trust, are staying on until the legal process is completed. [Post edited 6 Nov 2020 23:04]
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| NSR Bury on 11:18 - Nov 7 with 423 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| NSR Bury on 22:19 - Nov 6 by Garyjack |
Yes, you have produced a scenario which has been pointed out to be extremely flawed with false outcomes.
If the trust win in court, it's not about settling scores, it's about protecting the interests of the club. If the Yanks are not able to take the hit should they lose, then they should never have involved themselves in a sale amid the circumstances surrounding it do you not think?
Of course, in the event of a trust victory, it would be up to the yanks to show what they are made of. Are they legitimate, or are they just like the sellouts who stuck two fingers up to the fans of our club who raised over 200k to save it. More actually as they actually raised funds on top for the "Battle for Britton" fund to pay his wages to return here (there's your trust investment in the club by the way that wasn't matched by the sell outs).
Now then, when all is said and done, if the Yanks do turn out to have the clubs best interests at heart, what's to stop the trust reinvesting? Now in that scenario the Yanks would have paid their dues, and proven their worth.
I really am bemused, astounded actually why you are backing the Yanks and sell outs over the fans of our club. It takes all sorts i suppose.
Edit: Nobody has 'legged it'. Phil Sumbler and a few others whilst resigning from the board of the trust, are staying on until the legal process is completed. [Post edited 6 Nov 2020 23:04]
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The scandal I see it is the Trust raised £200k in 2002 much of it from business donations now only have £800k in the bank. If the club goes into administraton that is all it would have made in 18 years. It turned down sales in 2015, 2016 and 2017. They were asleep at the wheel under the previous leadership and are now looking for quick fix to make up for a failed strategy following relegation which appears to have taken them by surprise.
If they were set up to save the club you can only laugh at their efforts and treat their claims of saving the club with derision.
I suspect some Trust comrade strategists want to turn Swansea cty into Exeter City II a workers committee led team for the people for the people. They will doff their cap to Klopp and Maurinho when we get thrashed and they will call us 'plucky'. In the HJ era we gave them a kick up the 'arris. Even Pep apologised for two very bad decsions after a scare.
A club for Welsh people with no ambition but a strong community spirit. If that what they want they should be a League of Wales club. Sorry I prefer Uncle Sam ownership all day long. [Post edited 7 Nov 2020 11:27]
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| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| NSR Bury on 12:42 - Nov 7 with 414 views | Chief |
| NSR Bury on 11:18 - Nov 7 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The scandal I see it is the Trust raised £200k in 2002 much of it from business donations now only have £800k in the bank. If the club goes into administraton that is all it would have made in 18 years. It turned down sales in 2015, 2016 and 2017. They were asleep at the wheel under the previous leadership and are now looking for quick fix to make up for a failed strategy following relegation which appears to have taken them by surprise.
If they were set up to save the club you can only laugh at their efforts and treat their claims of saving the club with derision.
I suspect some Trust comrade strategists want to turn Swansea cty into Exeter City II a workers committee led team for the people for the people. They will doff their cap to Klopp and Maurinho when we get thrashed and they will call us 'plucky'. In the HJ era we gave them a kick up the 'arris. Even Pep apologised for two very bad decsions after a scare.
A club for Welsh people with no ambition but a strong community spirit. If that what they want they should be a League of Wales club. Sorry I prefer Uncle Sam ownership all day long. [Post edited 7 Nov 2020 11:27]
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- Why is it a scandal? What difference does has it actually made how much money the trust has in the bank. Its had plenty to operate as a supporters trust acting on behalf of the fans&also occasionally contribute to various worthy good local causes.
- lies about those 3 sales. The only time they've received a bid it was rescinded.
- Are you saying the club is in imminent need of saving then? Surely the way to do that is to get as much money as possible as quick as possible.
- Who wouldn't dream of having a local entity owning their football team? We had that and it was just great for years. Now we neither have that and what has replaced seems to have brought very little to the table. Now we're just like everyone else. But I'm realistic to know this is how it is to stay.
- Well soon it maybe up to 90% uncle Sam. But you're not happy with that scenario either. | |
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| NSR Bury on 13:44 - Nov 7 with 402 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| NSR Bury on 12:42 - Nov 7 by Chief |
- Why is it a scandal? What difference does has it actually made how much money the trust has in the bank. Its had plenty to operate as a supporters trust acting on behalf of the fans&also occasionally contribute to various worthy good local causes.
- lies about those 3 sales. The only time they've received a bid it was rescinded.
- Are you saying the club is in imminent need of saving then? Surely the way to do that is to get as much money as possible as quick as possible.
- Who wouldn't dream of having a local entity owning their football team? We had that and it was just great for years. Now we neither have that and what has replaced seems to have brought very little to the table. Now we're just like everyone else. But I'm realistic to know this is how it is to stay.
- Well soon it maybe up to 90% uncle Sam. But you're not happy with that scenario either. |
For the Trust to save the club its needs money and needs to be shrewd about money as well. This includes not giving it away to third parties. I have stated the Trust if it is serious it has to be a money making operation, not a highly skilled PR spin machine using its own poodle online forums to spread the spin to gullible fans ever ready to take in the 'Judas' rheotric. It is more like the Womens institute where financial considerations are concerned. If they now had £30m in the bank with good sensible investments and 4% annual returns I would praise them to the hills. All those briliant CV and progressive thinking and 0.15% return on their savings. Come on?
Any organisation serious about building a 'nest egg' to save the club would have put itself up for sale while the club was in the premier league. The Trust did the opoosite to this with activists strongly against selling up. If you go through the archives of their statement building up "nest egg" is not a concept often, or ever, refered to 2002 -2017. This is a recent concept only discussed in relation to the legal case which in itself only has traction after relegation. This is because the Trust had a failed stategy of increasing the holding and keeping only modest cash reserves. Their strategy was getting to 25% when in the PL. They were £4m short. Only £4,000 per member. Asking the US people for a 4% donation was pure genius but regrettibly did not work. Relegation has brought the Trust to the correct strategy of selling but by definition this has come too late. The ship has left port. The decision to sell had to be made in 2012 -2016 not made in 2018.
They are hoping to find adminstrative shortcoming in the sale process and are using very expensive ambulance chasers to get them out of a hole. Legal action was taken on the basis that the incompetent Yankee assett strippers would take the club down the leagues and then put in administration. Another wrong call. They are actually running the club brilliantly. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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