| Drop the old guard? 17:08 - Feb 25 with 3798 views | PhilmyRs |
The old guard, time to make way? controversial I know, but due to the fact draws are no longer going to be enough do we alter the team accordingly?
I prefer Clint Hill, Jamie Mackie, Shaun Derry and Adel Tarrabt to pretty much every player we have, but with the exception of Adel, I recognise their limitations. Now with our situation being desperate, with the likelyhood that quite a few wins will be required, is it time to put genuine quality above heart and desire and hope for the best? Or do we go with players we know will draw blood for the cause? Or do we go for something in between?
It was noticeable to me following the Swansea game that the 2nd half was a significantly improved performance having taken Derry and Mackie off at half time. As much as I like him, I don’t think Mackie deserved to stay on the pitch ahead of Townsend on Saturday, he was poor. As unpopular as it is I also think Hill was pretty average on Saturday. Partly to blame for both goals.
I think most people agree that as Footballers Townsend and Adel are better than Mackie. Personally I would say the same of Hoillett and possibly SWP, although it’s borderline. In terms of effort and desire Jamie Mackie is above them all. Right now it’s crucial we win games, draws aren’t enough, is there an argument to say we should go with the better quality and hope they click? Although admittedly when it goes wrong the crowd are a lot less forgiving. For what it’s worth I think had we stuck with 2 of Hill, Mackie and Derry in the team for the season and not been so quick to get rid we would be in better shape, but right now with something special required (draws not enough) I think we’ll need a bit more quality on the pitch.
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| Drop the old guard? on 17:14 - Feb 25 with 3775 views | daveB |
We tried that for the first few months of the season and couldn't get close to a winning a game so a no from me. Stick with the old guard |  | | |
| Drop the old guard? on 17:15 - Feb 25 with 3774 views | pomanjou |
Half agree with you, sort of.
Mackie, lovely guy, 120%, football ability Championship at best and only by virtue of effort as technical ability about nix.
Hill. Could possibly move MBia back and bring in Daikite. Undecided.
Derry. Only good for 1/2 a game now. Gets heavy legged and slow witted after a while.
Tarby. Must play. |  |
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| Drop the old guard? on 17:18 - Feb 25 with 3762 views | toboboly |
Didn't Hughes already try that......... |  |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| Drop the old guard? on 17:21 - Feb 25 with 3750 views | TW_R |
"For what it’s worth I think had we stuck with 2 of Hill, Mackie and Derry in the team for the season and not been so quick to get rid we would be in better shape...."
Well Mackie is the 2nd highest on the apperance list after Adel this season, followed by Clint in 3rd. Seems to me we have stuck with 2 out of the 3 and we haven't been "quick to get rid" at all.
Personally, I don't think Mackie has added anything creatively to our team since the Villa game. If we want to win games I think we need two creative players out wide that can run at the opposition's defence and cause them problems. |  | | |
| Drop the old guard? on 17:25 - Feb 25 with 3734 views | toboboly |
| Drop the old guard? on 17:21 - Feb 25 by TW_R |
"For what it’s worth I think had we stuck with 2 of Hill, Mackie and Derry in the team for the season and not been so quick to get rid we would be in better shape...."
Well Mackie is the 2nd highest on the apperance list after Adel this season, followed by Clint in 3rd. Seems to me we have stuck with 2 out of the 3 and we haven't been "quick to get rid" at all.
Personally, I don't think Mackie has added anything creatively to our team since the Villa game. If we want to win games I think we need two creative players out wide that can run at the opposition's defence and cause them problems. |
Isn't that more to do with recently shipping out a load of players? Cisse, Ferdinand, Nelson, buying in a load of new players, dropping a load of others; SWP, Bosingwa. Mackie was used a lot as a sub, Clint was played out at LB for a lot of games and Adel was in the wilderness until his goals v WBA. | |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| Drop the old guard? on 07:06 - Mar 1 with 3565 views | Ranger78 |
It's a tough one but overall, I think you're right.
It's obvious that changing pretty much the whole team all at once didn't work for Hughes, it also caused a whole new set of problems for squad harmony but something needs to give and the limitations of Hill and Mackie become more obvious with every game.
Watching QPR has basically become zero fun right now, I seriously don't enjoy going any more and as hard as it is to say, it's becoming less fun having to watch Mackie and Hill...... I love them both, nobody will ever be able to question their commitment and desire but they really are a mile away from nearly every other Premier League player and its painfull to see.
I don't know the answer but I'm sure that playing Mackie every game is actually part of the reason that we have scored so few goals. |  | | |
| Drop the old guard? on 08:22 - Mar 1 with 3528 views | Northernr |
How many times do we have to drop the old guard, get much much worse, and then recall them again at which point improvements occur before we realise they're quite important?
I'd leave Mackie out this weekend, he's not played well recently, but that's it.
Where are all these other wonderful alternatives we can pick instead? Our squad is full of useless arseholes. |  | | |
| Drop the old guard? on 08:36 - Mar 1 with 3508 views | PhilmyRs |
| Drop the old guard? on 08:22 - Mar 1 by Northernr |
How many times do we have to drop the old guard, get much much worse, and then recall them again at which point improvements occur before we realise they're quite important?
I'd leave Mackie out this weekend, he's not played well recently, but that's it.
Where are all these other wonderful alternatives we can pick instead? Our squad is full of useless arseholes. |
We'll be faced by a team tomorrow that are one of the best at pressing and hurrying the opposition, Derry and Hill worry me when people are pressing them high up the pitch. They lack composure. Our recent improvement has meant we're harder to beat, but we're not winning games. A special run is required which is the only reason I would consider alternatives. I don't think a team with Mackie, Derry and Hill in it could achieve this special run. We need to change something, be it the players or tactics or both. | | | |
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| Drop the old guard? on 08:55 - Mar 1 with 3482 views | Northernr |
| Drop the old guard? on 08:36 - Mar 1 by PhilmyRs |
We'll be faced by a team tomorrow that are one of the best at pressing and hurrying the opposition, Derry and Hill worry me when people are pressing them high up the pitch. They lack composure. Our recent improvement has meant we're harder to beat, but we're not winning games. A special run is required which is the only reason I would consider alternatives. I don't think a team with Mackie, Derry and Hill in it could achieve this special run. We need to change something, be it the players or tactics or both. |
Ok. Alternatives? | | | |
| Drop the old guard? on 09:02 - Mar 1 with 3465 views | ElHoop |
| Drop the old guard? on 08:55 - Mar 1 by Northernr |
Ok. Alternatives? |
How about:
Cesar
Deckchair Samba Deckchair Fabio
Deckchair Smith (Captain) Granero Bandsman
Remy Zamora |  | | |
| Drop the old guard? on 09:06 - Mar 1 with 3458 views | qpr85 |
| Drop the old guard? on 08:36 - Mar 1 by PhilmyRs |
We'll be faced by a team tomorrow that are one of the best at pressing and hurrying the opposition, Derry and Hill worry me when people are pressing them high up the pitch. They lack composure. Our recent improvement has meant we're harder to beat, but we're not winning games. A special run is required which is the only reason I would consider alternatives. I don't think a team with Mackie, Derry and Hill in it could achieve this special run. We need to change something, be it the players or tactics or both. |
I understand your sentiment but surely you aren't serious??? The only people in our team that stand a chance of a "special run" is the old guard of Mackie, Hill and Derry. They were in the team last season in the special run we had intact Mackie was instrumental in that run. I understand they have their limitations but to completely disregard them is what got us in this mess. We need to keep to the team we have been playing as much as possible as over the last few games they will have gained an understanding with each other. Things will click and if they dont then we will be relegated.
But then again we already are aren't we so what's it matter who HR plays | | | |
| Drop the old guard? on 09:16 - Mar 1 with 3439 views | smegma |
| Drop the old guard? on 09:02 - Mar 1 by ElHoop |
How about:
Cesar
Deckchair Samba Deckchair Fabio
Deckchair Smith (Captain) Granero Bandsman
Remy Zamora |
Are these Deckchairs related ? Brothers ? Triplets ? | | | |
| Drop the old guard? on 09:25 - Mar 1 with 3426 views | adhoc_qpr |
There aren't any alternatives as far as i can see?
I'd rather have a 5 out of 10 quality player giving 100% than a 7 out of 10 player giving 30%. | | | |
| Drop the old guard? on 09:35 - Mar 1 with 3406 views | ElHoop |
| Drop the old guard? on 09:16 - Mar 1 by smegma |
Are these Deckchairs related ? Brothers ? Triplets ? |
Yeah related, like the Gallens, only more like gallons, gallions ... oh the scope is frigging rigging endless here. I must sound like a bit of an anchor. | | | |
| Drop the old guard? on 09:35 - Mar 1 with 3405 views | daveB |
| Drop the old guard? on 09:25 - Mar 1 by adhoc_qpr |
There aren't any alternatives as far as i can see?
I'd rather have a 5 out of 10 quality player giving 100% than a 7 out of 10 player giving 30%. |
I'd go along with that, if we go down I want to go down with people at least trying rather than pulling out of tackles, putting gloves on during the game and strolling back for some token defending. | | | |
| Drop the old guard? on 09:37 - Mar 1 with 3403 views | TGRRRSSS |
IN an article about heading the other day - (not related to us but another defender) it had the top 10 headers of the ball in PL, Hill was 10th on the list and all those above were fairly esteemed company.
He should stay especially for this weekend, just his sort of game.
Worth looking at something different elsewhere other than Adel. |  | | |
| Drop the old guard? on 09:48 - Mar 1 with 3391 views | adhoc_qpr |
If you leave Hill 1 on 1 with someone like Suarez he'll get mugged - but so will the majority of the bottom half team's defenders.
Mackie hasn't had a great season for sure, but we don't exactly play to his strengths either. Give Mackie the ball in the final third while going forward with other players tying up defenders and his direct running is effective.
Give him the ball isolated on the half way line when he is static and his first touch etc will nullify him. | | | |
| Drop the old guard? on 11:28 - Mar 1 with 3316 views | Pommyhoop |
| Drop the old guard? on 09:48 - Mar 1 by adhoc_qpr |
If you leave Hill 1 on 1 with someone like Suarez he'll get mugged - but so will the majority of the bottom half team's defenders.
Mackie hasn't had a great season for sure, but we don't exactly play to his strengths either. Give Mackie the ball in the final third while going forward with other players tying up defenders and his direct running is effective.
Give him the ball isolated on the half way line when he is static and his first touch etc will nullify him. |
Gawd !! Has it really come to this ?Wistfully dreaming of playing to Jaimie's 'strengths'?
I love him to death but he's not very good.. |  |
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| Drop the old guard? on 11:33 - Mar 1 with 3306 views | hoof_hearted |
| Drop the old guard? on 09:02 - Mar 1 by ElHoop |
How about:
Cesar
Deckchair Samba Deckchair Fabio
Deckchair Smith (Captain) Granero Bandsman
Remy Zamora |
Okay I did a little LOL for the deckchair trplets and then a snort for the bandsman but then spent 30 seconds trying to think of a real Smith.
Git.
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| Drop the old guard? on 11:56 - Mar 1 with 3295 views | PhilmyRs |
| Drop the old guard? on 08:55 - Mar 1 by Northernr |
Ok. Alternatives? |
I take your point. When deciding what team I’d want us to put out, the logical decision seemed to be rest Mackie. I kept on finding a spot for Hill and Derry which shows the alternatives aren’t great. But if I was really going to go for the win on Saturday and assuming Samba D is fit.
Cesar
Onouha
Fabio
Mbia
Samba
Derry/Jenas
Diakite
Granero
Adel
Remy
Towsend
Diakite has disappointed me massively this season. I had high hopes for him and thought he was a bargain that would turn out to be a great player. At his best I’ve seen him do things Mackie and Derry couldn’t get close to doing.
I’ve stated it before, if Hill had played every game along with Mackie and Derry, in the right set-up, I think we would have more points than we do now. Right now though the situation demands wins and I think we’ll have more chance of achieving this by putting guy’s on the pitch that can hurt the opposition. Yes Diakite’s capable of doing this with his tackling but he also has that ability to ghost past players and drive at teams. His goal against Arsenal was a well timed run from midfield. We need more of this.
I also think Mackie has proved a very effective player from the bench in the past, so using him as an impact sub isn’t a bad move. It’s a big risk and a Mbia or Diakite sending off wouldn’t surprise me. I think having the old guard would make a draw more probable, whilst the players I’ve mentioned would make a loss more likely, but I genuinely think in terms of winning the game, it would have more chance. As it seems a win is vital I’d roll the dice.
The logic for getting Mbia at the back (I know this is a big risk) is because he lacks composure in the middle of the park, but his pace means we can defend higher up the pitch meaning we’re not spending 90 minutes inviting pressure. I wouldn’t be too disappointed if he was right back with Hill retaining his place.
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| Drop the old guard? on 12:40 - Mar 1 with 3254 views | Northernr |
Can you honestly say Jenas, Granero and Diakite have been any better than Hill and Derry this season. In my opinion they've been much worse. I'd leave Mackie out tomorrow too, because with Hoilett and Townsend we have one or two alternatives, but I don't see we have that many options elsewhere. | | | |
| Drop the old guard? on 14:11 - Mar 1 with 3200 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Drop the old guard? on 12:40 - Mar 1 by Northernr |
Can you honestly say Jenas, Granero and Diakite have been any better than Hill and Derry this season. In my opinion they've been much worse. I'd leave Mackie out tomorrow too, because with Hoilett and Townsend we have one or two alternatives, but I don't see we have that many options elsewhere. |
Agree Cliveo.
I was going to drop Mackie tomorrow, but now there's no Bobby, I might go for this:
Cesar
Fabio Hill Samba Traore
Townsend Mbia WhoCares Taarabt
Mackie Remy |  |
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| Drop the old guard? on 14:21 - Mar 1 with 3185 views | PhilmyRs |
| Drop the old guard? on 12:40 - Mar 1 by Northernr |
Can you honestly say Jenas, Granero and Diakite have been any better than Hill and Derry this season. In my opinion they've been much worse. I'd leave Mackie out tomorrow too, because with Hoilett and Townsend we have one or two alternatives, but I don't see we have that many options elsewhere. |
I think Granero and Diakite are better Footballers than Derry. I think Hoilett, Adel and Townsend are more dangerous than Mackie, and I think possibly moving mbia further back will allow us to play higher up the pitch.
I don't think Jenas, Granero or Diakite have been any better than Hill and Derry this season. But we are in a desperate position where wins are vital. I'd gamble that we can see the return of the Samba Diakite that tore Arsenal appart, or the Granero that looked like a top 4 player after his first couple of games, and the Jenas that helped Tottenham get Champions league Football. Other than Jenas I think there's a chance. Diakite looked livery in the ACN, whilst Granero has showed the odd glimpse of ability (Swansea second half). If, and it's a big if, they recapture their form, we have a chance. I don't think we would with Hill and Derry but would love to be proved wrong.
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| Drop the old guard? on 15:57 - Mar 1 with 3149 views | Hunterhoop |
| Drop the old guard? on 14:21 - Mar 1 by PhilmyRs |
I think Granero and Diakite are better Footballers than Derry. I think Hoilett, Adel and Townsend are more dangerous than Mackie, and I think possibly moving mbia further back will allow us to play higher up the pitch.
I don't think Jenas, Granero or Diakite have been any better than Hill and Derry this season. But we are in a desperate position where wins are vital. I'd gamble that we can see the return of the Samba Diakite that tore Arsenal appart, or the Granero that looked like a top 4 player after his first couple of games, and the Jenas that helped Tottenham get Champions league Football. Other than Jenas I think there's a chance. Diakite looked livery in the ACN, whilst Granero has showed the odd glimpse of ability (Swansea second half). If, and it's a big if, they recapture their form, we have a chance. I don't think we would with Hill and Derry but would love to be proved wrong.
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My team:
Cesar
Onouha
Hill
Samba
Fabio
Mbia
Diakite
Granero
Adel
Remy
Townsend
4-3-3- when we attack, 4-5-1 when we defend. I'd have Adel and Townsend playing far forward though and therefore I think we need athleticism and pace in the middle to cover and go from side to side and press up and down. Derry does not offer this. Diakite does. Also, the only way Mbia is useful is in a 3 man midfield. And you've got Granero to pass it around. He is the one midfielder remaining (exc. Adel) who can thread a great ball through to Remy.
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