| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer 14:40 - Jan 19 with 3221 views | QPRcounsellor |
Anyone read this? Over halfway through and it's very good.
Obviously lots about Chelsea but it's brilliantly written and he's just mentioned the 6-0 defeat at Loftus Road.
Very interesting and a top bloke.
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| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 15:27 - Jan 19 with 2542 views | quickpassrotter |
Brilliant read. Great intelligence in his writing - from someone who never saw football as his priority in life. |  | | |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 15:36 - Jan 19 with 2509 views | BrianMcCarthy |
I haven't. I admire his intelligence, and liked that he was different and unapologetic about it, but I have read comments from him in later years that I thought excused the systemic racism at his club and also the behaviour of John Terry. |  |
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| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 15:49 - Jan 19 with 2470 views | Paddyhoops |
I like him but as Brian said . He’s ignored the fact Chelsea have cheated financially and the massive elephant in the room that is John Terry .
Has spoken out against the Saudis being awarded the World Cup but I guarantee he will be there co commentating .
The indie kid is being a bit hypocritical, me thinks. | | | |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 16:18 - Jan 19 with 2370 views | Ghost_on_the_Westway |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 15:49 - Jan 19 by Paddyhoops |
I like him but as Brian said . He’s ignored the fact Chelsea have cheated financially and the massive elephant in the room that is John Terry .
Has spoken out against the Saudis being awarded the World Cup but I guarantee he will be there co commentating .
The indie kid is being a bit hypocritical, me thinks. |
Yeah, I can even remember him being interviewed in the NME - The Post-Punk Footballer - looking quite the indie band guitarist, with his strategic-placed Joy Division badge on his greatcoat lapel and his indie-fop haircut, playing up to the Hip crowd whilst at the same time playing for that lot in front of a load of NF Vermin, doing monkey chants at their own players.
Then is so embarrassed and sorry for being a footballer in the past that so he works for the BBC as a jobbing football correspondent.
Little Chelsea nob. [Post edited 19 Jan 16:20]
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| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 16:34 - Jan 19 with 2248 views | stainrods_elbow |
I very much like the book's conceit of 'accidental success' (getting somewhere not so much by not trying too hard as through a kind of creative indirection/counter-labour and/or resisting fate to allow it to impose itself), and of course, in football terms, his counter-cultural cultural intelligence. I also like his antipathy to 'cancel' culture (sadly replicated on LfW by the political infants in our midst who use the 'ignore' button and then brag about it). On top of that, he was a pal of the Cocteau Twins, which is a joyous recommendation in itself. If I could have had any player for QPR, it'd have been him.
It's a total myth that he simply ignored Chelsea racism and the poster who ignorantly pigeonholes him for playing for them needs to wake up and open his mind. In fact, he spoke out defiantly against it and even met some NF thugs at Stamford Bridge. Anyone who thinks he was 'embarrassed' about being a footballer is also 100% (embarrassingly) wrong - that's just a crass misreading. In fact, his love for the game seeps out of every pore of him, which he even calls an expression of his own (socialist) politics.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/pat-nevin-met-chelsea-fans-30114113
'When I go to London and I’m at Chelsea, and I hear the racist chanting, I won’t just sit and listen to that and keep my head down. No, I come from Glasgow. I’m not having that. I grew up with [South African activist] Steve Biko on my wall as well as [former Celtic winger] Jimmy Johnstone.T he most common thing with young people is to worry about where you fit into the world. It is OK. Be yourself. If people don’t like you being you, that is their problem.' [Post edited 19 Jan 22:16]
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| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 20:26 - Jan 19 with 2029 views | Rangers67 |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 16:34 - Jan 19 by stainrods_elbow |
I very much like the book's conceit of 'accidental success' (getting somewhere not so much by not trying too hard as through a kind of creative indirection/counter-labour and/or resisting fate to allow it to impose itself), and of course, in football terms, his counter-cultural cultural intelligence. I also like his antipathy to 'cancel' culture (sadly replicated on LfW by the political infants in our midst who use the 'ignore' button and then brag about it). On top of that, he was a pal of the Cocteau Twins, which is a joyous recommendation in itself. If I could have had any player for QPR, it'd have been him.
It's a total myth that he simply ignored Chelsea racism and the poster who ignorantly pigeonholes him for playing for them needs to wake up and open his mind. In fact, he spoke out defiantly against it and even met some NF thugs at Stamford Bridge. Anyone who thinks he was 'embarrassed' about being a footballer is also 100% (embarrassingly) wrong - that's just a crass misreading. In fact, his love for the game seeps out of every pore of him, which he even calls an expression of his own (socialist) politics.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/pat-nevin-met-chelsea-fans-30114113
'When I go to London and I’m at Chelsea, and I hear the racist chanting, I won’t just sit and listen to that and keep my head down. No, I come from Glasgow. I’m not having that. I grew up with [South African activist] Steve Biko on my wall as well as [former Celtic winger] Jimmy Johnstone.T he most common thing with young people is to worry about where you fit into the world. It is OK. Be yourself. If people don’t like you being you, that is their problem.' [Post edited 19 Jan 22:16]
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He is a hypocrite | | | |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 21:24 - Jan 19 with 1868 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 20:26 - Jan 19 by Rangers67 |
He is a hypocrite |
Dearie me! With 'counter-argument' like yours, what price argument (or even the meanings of words like 'hypocrite')? [Post edited 19 Jan 22:44]
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| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 22:22 - Jan 19 with 1776 views | Northernr |
“Terry is quite incredible as a mentor - what he's doing, showing an attitude in certain areas that people don't understand. He's one of the most misunderstood footballers I've ever come across in my life.
“If you watch him with fans, if you watch him at any get together when he's with everyone, he has got one of the most incredible personalities I've ever met in the game.
“He's a pretty special individual in a lot of areas, and he will pass a lot of incredibly positive things on.” |  | | |
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| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 22:25 - Jan 19 with 1741 views | Paddyhoops |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 22:22 - Jan 19 by Northernr |
“Terry is quite incredible as a mentor - what he's doing, showing an attitude in certain areas that people don't understand. He's one of the most misunderstood footballers I've ever come across in my life.
“If you watch him with fans, if you watch him at any get together when he's with everyone, he has got one of the most incredible personalities I've ever met in the game.
“He's a pretty special individual in a lot of areas, and he will pass a lot of incredibly positive things on.” |
I wonder if Terry has a picture of Biko on his wall? | | | |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 22:30 - Jan 19 with 1691 views | stainrods_elbow |
PN has also said, 'I'm not saying John Terry's a great person, I don't say that at all', that he 'wanted to dislike him', and with 'some of the things that he'd said, that he'd done in the past, well I thought, "I've no time for this guy"'. Then he developed a more nuanced and complex view of him, looking at him up close, as intelligent people are prone to do.
https://www.offtheball.com/videos/pat-nevin-on-stunningly-misunderstood-john-ter
Like most QPR fans, I am hardly warm to Terry, who may or may not be a racist. Either way, however, I don't know him (and nor does anyone here, I presume) as Nevin does, and I take seriously Pat's more qualified opinion as an intelligent man with real embedded values, especially as he found himself compelled to complicate and rethink it.
Of course, if people want to see people - who are mostly a mixture of traits and rarely if ever all good/bad - forever in black and white terms (unfortunate pun unintended), they're unlikely to be swayed either way. For them, the possibility that, say, Terry could be both a plausible mentor and a potential abuser (racist or not) of Anton Ferdinand, or Jamie Carragher a decent family man and one who can spit into a car with a young girl in it when he loses his temper, or, say, Stan Bowles a popular entertainer who was utterly selfish and reckless when it came to being a half-decent father/partner, is probably utterly mystifying.
To pick up on a post elsewhere, most of us are walking contradictions, and that should humble all of us in our tendencies to preach and virtue-signal. [Post edited 19 Jan 22:43]
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| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 14:14 - Jan 20 with 1347 views | nick_hammersmith |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 22:30 - Jan 19 by stainrods_elbow |
PN has also said, 'I'm not saying John Terry's a great person, I don't say that at all', that he 'wanted to dislike him', and with 'some of the things that he'd said, that he'd done in the past, well I thought, "I've no time for this guy"'. Then he developed a more nuanced and complex view of him, looking at him up close, as intelligent people are prone to do.
https://www.offtheball.com/videos/pat-nevin-on-stunningly-misunderstood-john-ter
Like most QPR fans, I am hardly warm to Terry, who may or may not be a racist. Either way, however, I don't know him (and nor does anyone here, I presume) as Nevin does, and I take seriously Pat's more qualified opinion as an intelligent man with real embedded values, especially as he found himself compelled to complicate and rethink it.
Of course, if people want to see people - who are mostly a mixture of traits and rarely if ever all good/bad - forever in black and white terms (unfortunate pun unintended), they're unlikely to be swayed either way. For them, the possibility that, say, Terry could be both a plausible mentor and a potential abuser (racist or not) of Anton Ferdinand, or Jamie Carragher a decent family man and one who can spit into a car with a young girl in it when he loses his temper, or, say, Stan Bowles a popular entertainer who was utterly selfish and reckless when it came to being a half-decent father/partner, is probably utterly mystifying.
To pick up on a post elsewhere, most of us are walking contradictions, and that should humble all of us in our tendencies to preach and virtue-signal. [Post edited 19 Jan 22:43]
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There are no subtle nuances to John Terry.
He is a racist, bully, greedy, egotistical, adulterous scumbag.
Who, like Joey Barton, would probably be in Prison if he couldn't kick a football for a living.
Stop trying to be contrary for the sake of it. It's ok to not like John Terry.
"Terry, who may or may not be a racist. "
Clown! |  | | |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 14:33 - Jan 20 with 1306 views | loftboy |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 14:14 - Jan 20 by nick_hammersmith |
There are no subtle nuances to John Terry.
He is a racist, bully, greedy, egotistical, adulterous scumbag.
Who, like Joey Barton, would probably be in Prison if he couldn't kick a football for a living.
Stop trying to be contrary for the sake of it. It's ok to not like John Terry.
"Terry, who may or may not be a racist. "
Clown! |
Regularly witnessed him parking his Range Rover in disabled bays in cobham, he would laugh about the fines being peanuts without any awareness that he was stopping a disabled person from parking there. |  |
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| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 14:44 - Jan 20 with 1273 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 22:30 - Jan 19 by stainrods_elbow |
PN has also said, 'I'm not saying John Terry's a great person, I don't say that at all', that he 'wanted to dislike him', and with 'some of the things that he'd said, that he'd done in the past, well I thought, "I've no time for this guy"'. Then he developed a more nuanced and complex view of him, looking at him up close, as intelligent people are prone to do.
https://www.offtheball.com/videos/pat-nevin-on-stunningly-misunderstood-john-ter
Like most QPR fans, I am hardly warm to Terry, who may or may not be a racist. Either way, however, I don't know him (and nor does anyone here, I presume) as Nevin does, and I take seriously Pat's more qualified opinion as an intelligent man with real embedded values, especially as he found himself compelled to complicate and rethink it.
Of course, if people want to see people - who are mostly a mixture of traits and rarely if ever all good/bad - forever in black and white terms (unfortunate pun unintended), they're unlikely to be swayed either way. For them, the possibility that, say, Terry could be both a plausible mentor and a potential abuser (racist or not) of Anton Ferdinand, or Jamie Carragher a decent family man and one who can spit into a car with a young girl in it when he loses his temper, or, say, Stan Bowles a popular entertainer who was utterly selfish and reckless when it came to being a half-decent father/partner, is probably utterly mystifying.
To pick up on a post elsewhere, most of us are walking contradictions, and that should humble all of us in our tendencies to preach and virtue-signal. [Post edited 19 Jan 22:43]
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Hitler did like animals after all... | | | |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 14:59 - Jan 20 with 1237 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 22:25 - Jan 19 by Paddyhoops |
I wonder if Terry has a picture of Biko on his wall? |
Big fan of Phil Silvers apparently. | | | |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 15:18 - Jan 20 with 1161 views | kensalriser |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 22:25 - Jan 19 by Paddyhoops |
I wonder if Terry has a picture of Biko on his wall? |
He would have if it wasn't full of pictures of his own knob. |  |
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| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 15:27 - Jan 20 with 1144 views | Paddyhoops |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 14:59 - Jan 20 by Wegerles_Stairs |
Big fan of Phil Silvers apparently. |
See you what you did there . Very clever . | | | |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 16:02 - Jan 20 with 1067 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 16:18 - Jan 19 by Ghost_on_the_Westway |
Yeah, I can even remember him being interviewed in the NME - The Post-Punk Footballer - looking quite the indie band guitarist, with his strategic-placed Joy Division badge on his greatcoat lapel and his indie-fop haircut, playing up to the Hip crowd whilst at the same time playing for that lot in front of a load of NF Vermin, doing monkey chants at their own players.
Then is so embarrassed and sorry for being a footballer in the past that so he works for the BBC as a jobbing football correspondent.
Little Chelsea nob. [Post edited 19 Jan 16:20]
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I remember that NME issue well. Being a JD fanatic, I was endeared to him at the time, although I recall the snobbery of the writing, effectively saying, he wasn't your average thick footballer. I think he may even have gone to Uni or had A Levels. They made a point about that as well. |  | | |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 18:01 - Jan 20 with 934 views | stainrods_elbow |
Some of the hate and prejudice here (for both Terry and Nevin at the same time in some cases - you really couldn't make it up!) makes me just as ashamed for the people behind it. Meanwhile, my being called a 'clown' and contrarian for excavating Nevin's detailed, informed and valid opinion about an apparently unattractive bloke like Terry, with reasoned journalistic reference/support etc., tells its own depressing story. Haters hate etc. Me, I like to live dangerously and try to think a little for myself. [Post edited 20 Jan 18:24]
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| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 18:07 - Jan 20 with 911 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 16:02 - Jan 20 by CroydonCaptJack |
I remember that NME issue well. Being a JD fanatic, I was endeared to him at the time, although I recall the snobbery of the writing, effectively saying, he wasn't your average thick footballer. I think he may even have gone to Uni or had A Levels. They made a point about that as well. |
What's wrong with that exactly? Should they have overlooked it to 'dumb him down'? [Post edited 20 Jan 18:09]
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| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 18:24 - Jan 20 with 846 views | Paddyhoops |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 18:01 - Jan 20 by stainrods_elbow |
Some of the hate and prejudice here (for both Terry and Nevin at the same time in some cases - you really couldn't make it up!) makes me just as ashamed for the people behind it. Meanwhile, my being called a 'clown' and contrarian for excavating Nevin's detailed, informed and valid opinion about an apparently unattractive bloke like Terry, with reasoned journalistic reference/support etc., tells its own depressing story. Haters hate etc. Me, I like to live dangerously and try to think a little for myself. [Post edited 20 Jan 18:24]
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Sorry . Where is the hate on here ?
I said he’s a little bit hypocritical.
I think that’s the general opinion in here.No ? | | | |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 18:40 - Jan 20 with 798 views | stainrods_elbow |
Ooh - things like 'There are no subtle nuances to John Terry. He is a racist, bully, greedy, egotistical, adulterous scumbag'. Comparing him (and Nevin's intelligent/informed/nuanced view of him) to Hitler liking animals. Little things like that. | |
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| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 18:49 - Jan 20 with 781 views | QPRcounsellor |
My original post seems to have spurred quite a debate.
Ultimately it's a great read and highly recommended if you're a football fan, particularly one who grew up in the 80s.
From reading it, I like the bloke. He sounds a bit too on board with the rainbow laces and taking the knee stuff than I am, but at the same time the way he dealt with racism and homophobia in the 80s and 90s, when it really was a problem, and his dedication and passion for football and fairness, is commendable.
I also think he'd have been a perfect signing for QPR instead of Chelsea, and then he wouldn't have to pretend that the "vast majority" of their fans are wonderful! | | | |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 18:59 - Jan 20 with 740 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 18:49 - Jan 20 by QPRcounsellor |
My original post seems to have spurred quite a debate.
Ultimately it's a great read and highly recommended if you're a football fan, particularly one who grew up in the 80s.
From reading it, I like the bloke. He sounds a bit too on board with the rainbow laces and taking the knee stuff than I am, but at the same time the way he dealt with racism and homophobia in the 80s and 90s, when it really was a problem, and his dedication and passion for football and fairness, is commendable.
I also think he'd have been a perfect signing for QPR instead of Chelsea, and then he wouldn't have to pretend that the "vast majority" of their fans are wonderful! |
Glad it's a good read, Counsellor.
Having thought about it, I'm still going to give it a miss but thanks for the recommendation anyway. | |
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| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 19:36 - Jan 20 with 654 views | Boston |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 22:25 - Jan 19 by Paddyhoops |
I wonder if Terry has a picture of Biko on his wall? |
I'm reliably informed he has a picture of Joey Barton. | |
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| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 21:05 - Jan 20 with 563 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer on 18:49 - Jan 20 by QPRcounsellor |
My original post seems to have spurred quite a debate.
Ultimately it's a great read and highly recommended if you're a football fan, particularly one who grew up in the 80s.
From reading it, I like the bloke. He sounds a bit too on board with the rainbow laces and taking the knee stuff than I am, but at the same time the way he dealt with racism and homophobia in the 80s and 90s, when it really was a problem, and his dedication and passion for football and fairness, is commendable.
I also think he'd have been a perfect signing for QPR instead of Chelsea, and then he wouldn't have to pretend that the "vast majority" of their fans are wonderful! |
And thanks for it, Mr Counsellor. Pity one or two felt the need to hijack it with their impermeable loathings of (the admittedly unappealing) Terry and/or inverted snobbery/nit-picking at Nevin himself, but the book's as worthwhile as you say. [Post edited 20 Jan 21:39]
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