| No subject 12:51 - Jun 15 with 5615 views | nice_to_michu |
[Post edited 15 Nov 2017 12:03]
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| Green Tories? on 13:12 - Jun 15 with 4386 views | dickythorpe |
Leanne only cares about the Valleys. |  | | |
| Green Tories? (n/t) on 13:33 - Jun 15 with 4351 views | nice_to_michu |
| Green Tories? on 13:12 - Jun 15 by dickythorpe |
Leanne only cares about the Valleys. |
[Post edited 15 Nov 2017 12:03]
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| Green Tories? on 13:39 - Jun 15 with 4342 views | acejack3065 |
yeah but labour are the real red tories because trampie was speaking to someone the other day who said "everyone knows labour are red tories, everyone says so" and when is trampie ever wrong so? |  | | |
| Green Tories? on 13:54 - Jun 15 with 4322 views | yescomeon |
Plaid have snookered themselves by trying to go outside Labour on the left. In my view they would be much better placed in the centre ground and not rule out working with either Labour or Tories in a coalition whatever the case may be. I'm doubting that make any real inroads into south Wales no matter how left they go. Might be better focusing on trying to win the more rural seats off the Tories. But what do I know.
Utter irrelevance is harsh. All smaller parties suffered due to the polarization of the two main parties. But it's hard to see how either of the main two parties can get a thumping majority under the current electoral system. The smaller parties are going to be needed by the larger parties to get their majorities. |  |
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| Green Tories? on 14:13 - Jun 15 with 4302 views | trampie |
| Green Tories? on 13:39 - Jun 15 by acejack3065 |
yeah but labour are the real red tories because trampie was speaking to someone the other day who said "everyone knows labour are red tories, everyone says so" and when is trampie ever wrong so? |
The pro Labour party paper writes about a current Plaid MP apparently talking about why he joined Plaid and not Labour, it was because Labour was a 'red Tory' party his words not mine and I assume that quote is current. |  |
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| Green Tories? on 14:31 - Jun 15 with 4274 views | trampie |
| Green Tories? on 13:54 - Jun 15 by yescomeon |
Plaid have snookered themselves by trying to go outside Labour on the left. In my view they would be much better placed in the centre ground and not rule out working with either Labour or Tories in a coalition whatever the case may be. I'm doubting that make any real inroads into south Wales no matter how left they go. Might be better focusing on trying to win the more rural seats off the Tories. But what do I know.
Utter irrelevance is harsh. All smaller parties suffered due to the polarization of the two main parties. But it's hard to see how either of the main two parties can get a thumping majority under the current electoral system. The smaller parties are going to be needed by the larger parties to get their majorities. |
Plaid should have ruled the Assembly as head party of a rainbow alliance a few years ago.
Plaid should have spent the last couple of decades attacking Labour for being a Tory party, but were too nice.
Plaid could have justified any coalition by saying there is no difference between you and them whether that be directed to Labour, Conservatives or Lib-Dems [up to this election].
The way forward in a year or so time might well be to focus on rural seats with a Welsh speaker from that area in charge and see if Leanne can be persuaded to stand in the Rhondda Westminster seat.
Leanne has been a huge success, stopped the rot, increased seats across the board in different elections, won the Rhondda seat in the Assembly by standing herself when she did not have to, I would have taken that 5 years ago, in fact that is exactly what I wanted, so Plaid could say down the line that they have had a female leader, a non Welsh speaker, a South Walian etc etc, all good. | |
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| Green Tories? on 14:53 - Jun 15 with 4255 views | trampie |
I follow Plaids fortunes just like a sports team, just like the Swans, the rugby team from my old village, Glammy back in the day before they abandoned West Wales, Welsh national teams etc.
Plaid deserved injury time winners in Arfon and Ceredigion they were forever losing out to last minute goals [seats by a few hundred lots of times over the years], I don't recall the Eastern Fail ever saying Plaid on the verge of a massive break through blah blah blah as they win some seats and also just miss out on a few other seats by a few hundred votes.
Plaid have lost a Westminster seat by 3 votes in the past, in the last elections [council] I'm aware of Plaid losing a seat by the drawing of lots and losing a seat by 1 vote, I'm not aware of them winning any seats by similar scorelines in that election.
Plaid just winning a couple of seats in the last minute has been decades in the making, I hope Wales football get a break in a vital game soon that would be decades in the making as well [Joe Jordan, Glockner, Davie Cooper pen], I wont even count Bodin or the dirty Hungarians. | |
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| Green Tories? on 15:06 - Jun 15 with 4244 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| Green Tories? on 13:39 - Jun 15 by acejack3065 |
yeah but labour are the real red tories because trampie was speaking to someone the other day who said "everyone knows labour are red tories, everyone says so" and when is trampie ever wrong so? |
To be fair the voices in his head are unanimous about it. |  |
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| Green Tories? on 15:23 - Jun 15 with 4219 views | trampie |
| Green Tories? on 15:06 - Jun 15 by Joe_bradshaw |
To be fair the voices in his head are unanimous about it. |
Some people are unable to read.  | |
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| Green Tories? on 15:57 - Jun 15 with 4198 views | acejack3065 |
| Green Tories? on 14:13 - Jun 15 by trampie |
The pro Labour party paper writes about a current Plaid MP apparently talking about why he joined Plaid and not Labour, it was because Labour was a 'red Tory' party his words not mine and I assume that quote is current. |
are you trolling me with that response? | | | |
| Green Tories? (n/t) on 19:01 - Jun 15 with 4114 views | nice_to_michu |
[Post edited 15 Nov 2017 12:03]
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| Green Tories? on 22:28 - Jun 15 with 4024 views | Yossarian |
What I've not been able to understand about this recent 'brand' of Welsh nationalism as propounded by Leanne Wood is her absolute determination to open the doors to every refugee/ bogus asylum seeker and condemn anyone who has the gall to question whether this might have an adverse effect on public services, education and social cohesion. Nationalists always used to be frantic about the influx of English 'white flighters' threatening the fragile cultural balances of rural communities, to the extent that some even tried to terrorise them by burning second homes. Now it seems this matters not a jot. Welsh nationalism was always differentiated from Scottish (and to a lesser extent Irish) nationalism as it was primarily a cultural rather than a political nationalism. This appears to have diametrically changed- to the extent that many nationalists are now like turkeys voting for Xmas- the further dilution of a traditional Welsh culture must surely result in its eventual extinction? One might argue that a nation's culture evolves but it is unclear as to how this is being achieved in a socially cohesive way. The S4C mafia in Cardiff send their kids into Welsh language schools and new immigrants educate their offspring in various faith schools. State education in Wales is sadly the worst in the U.K. and I struggle to see how Plaid Cymru's position offers any real hope. The latest news that local Plaid councillors saw fit to join forces with the Tories merely confirms the impression that nationalism can never be described as 'Progressive politics' - despite Leanne Wood's naive efforts to contrive to make it appear so. |  |
| "Yossarian- the very sight of the name made him shudder.There were so many esses in it. It just had to be subversive" (Catch 22) |
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| Green Tories? on 22:33 - Jun 15 with 4020 views | trampie |
| Green Tories? on 22:05 - Jun 15 by nice_to_michu |
[Post edited 15 Nov 2017 12:04]
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I've said Plaid are too nice, they don't attack Labour anywhere near enough, you missed me saying that I take it ?
What don't you like about the red Tories immigration policy and defence policy ? | |
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| Green Tories? on 08:24 - Jun 16 with 3936 views | johnlangy |
| Green Tories? on 22:28 - Jun 15 by Yossarian |
What I've not been able to understand about this recent 'brand' of Welsh nationalism as propounded by Leanne Wood is her absolute determination to open the doors to every refugee/ bogus asylum seeker and condemn anyone who has the gall to question whether this might have an adverse effect on public services, education and social cohesion. Nationalists always used to be frantic about the influx of English 'white flighters' threatening the fragile cultural balances of rural communities, to the extent that some even tried to terrorise them by burning second homes. Now it seems this matters not a jot. Welsh nationalism was always differentiated from Scottish (and to a lesser extent Irish) nationalism as it was primarily a cultural rather than a political nationalism. This appears to have diametrically changed- to the extent that many nationalists are now like turkeys voting for Xmas- the further dilution of a traditional Welsh culture must surely result in its eventual extinction? One might argue that a nation's culture evolves but it is unclear as to how this is being achieved in a socially cohesive way. The S4C mafia in Cardiff send their kids into Welsh language schools and new immigrants educate their offspring in various faith schools. State education in Wales is sadly the worst in the U.K. and I struggle to see how Plaid Cymru's position offers any real hope. The latest news that local Plaid councillors saw fit to join forces with the Tories merely confirms the impression that nationalism can never be described as 'Progressive politics' - despite Leanne Wood's naive efforts to contrive to make it appear so. |
The concern, I'd imagine, is to do with numbers. The percentage of refugees/asylum seekers (real ones) is tiny whereas there are 600,000 English born people in Wales. That's 20% on average but I shudder to think what the percentage is in Pembroke for example.
Those sorts of numbers is bound to have a detrimental effect on the 'cultural balance' in a community. The fact that Pembroke always votes in Tory MP's could be one example of that. |  | | |
| Green Tories? on 08:40 - Jun 16 with 3937 views | Yossarian |
| Green Tories? on 08:24 - Jun 16 by johnlangy |
The concern, I'd imagine, is to do with numbers. The percentage of refugees/asylum seekers (real ones) is tiny whereas there are 600,000 English born people in Wales. That's 20% on average but I shudder to think what the percentage is in Pembroke for example.
Those sorts of numbers is bound to have a detrimental effect on the 'cultural balance' in a community. The fact that Pembroke always votes in Tory MP's could be one example of that. |
Yes, you're quite possibly right. What we might all be experiencing (English 'white flighters', Welsh cultural nationalists, other migrants and the indigenous rump) is an imposed cultural melting pot where no one is essentially comfortable. | |
| "Yossarian- the very sight of the name made him shudder.There were so many esses in it. It just had to be subversive" (Catch 22) |
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| Green Tories? on 09:04 - Jun 16 with 3925 views | trampie |
| Green Tories? on 08:40 - Jun 16 by Yossarian |
Yes, you're quite possibly right. What we might all be experiencing (English 'white flighters', Welsh cultural nationalists, other migrants and the indigenous rump) is an imposed cultural melting pot where no one is essentially comfortable. |
Something like a quarter of the entire Welsh population was not born in Wales, most of them were born in England. | |
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| Green Tories? on 11:03 - Jun 16 with 3896 views | yescomeon |
It's not even necessarily white flighters though, although there will be a bit of that. Wales is predominantly rural. People move away from cities as they get older and tired of the faster pace of life in cities or whatever or retire to the countryside. This is a problem in England too, young people move to the city, old people move to the countryside, who looks after the old people. In Wales you have the added issue of two different cultures and the balance between them.
For example, on the matter of national identity, in Wales 57.51% of people consider themselves Welsh only, 16.95% British only, 11.22% English only and 7.11% Welsh and British only [1]. That English only number is really high, approaching 3 times the UK percentage of Muslims and all the fuss there is over that (I know thats apples and oranges to an extent) [1]. But the English only number in Scotland and Northern Ireland are only 2.28% and 0.6% respectively [1]. It shows just how much of a "problem" it is, but I really don't know what you can do about it.
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom | |
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| Green Tories? on 15:14 - Jun 16 with 3860 views | Yossarian |
Adding to the 'white flighters' who are essentially those who can afford it, is a growing group who have been moved out of London and other inner cities because of the bedroom tax and other Tory initiatives to gentrify and politically detoxify the cities. This has another unforeseen impact on cultural identity across Wales. Much of this is done without the public being generally aware. The net effect is that Wales was relatively insulated against much contentious migration but this trend has been reversed in recent years and might partly explain Wales' surprising Euro-scepticism. In any event, Leanne Wood has only demonstrated an unerring ability to be in denial over the seminal political and cultural issue of the times. | |
| "Yossarian- the very sight of the name made him shudder.There were so many esses in it. It just had to be subversive" (Catch 22) |
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| Green Tories? on 16:34 - Jun 16 with 3838 views | Kilkennyjack |
Its only about 5 per cent of people living in Wales who were born outside the uk. Something like that.
Its not a big problem really. Is it ? |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Green Tories? on 20:45 - Jun 17 with 3738 views | trampie |
Plaid have spoken. | |
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