| The End of Democracy part 794... 14:05 - Mar 1 with 5166 views | 1BobbyHazell |
The Stasi would be chuffed.
Snooper's charter to extend police access to phone and internet data
http://gu.com/p/4h7b9
Drip, drip, drip... |  | | |  |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 14:15 - Mar 1 with 5156 views | Hayesender |
We've never really had true democracy.
Let's be honest, if voting changed anything they'd ban it.
I try not to get the arse about the state of everything anymore. It's not worth the stress |  |
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| The End of Democracy part 794... on 14:50 - Mar 1 with 5114 views | Boston |
I voted you up One Bob, even though I find it difficult to understand your stance on the issue considering you're an avid supporter of the growth of government on everything else. |  |
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| The End of Democracy part 794... on 16:46 - Mar 1 with 5067 views | stevec |
Theresa May is a wrong'un.
Job 1 - vote to Leave the EU
Only then can we get stuck into the establishment in this country, a battle worth fighting. |  | | |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 18:04 - Mar 1 with 5026 views | Juzzie |
Whenever I see articles about people exclaiming how bad it is we're going to be snooped on, I always cite back to something that happened to me in 1985/86.
I parked up my crappy MK1 Escort just off Elgin Avenue, Maida Vale to go and see a mate of mine.
When I came out, just as I was getting into my car I got pounced on by a plain clothes copper on a bicycle (basically stopping me from 'doing a runner'). A few other plain clothes policeman joined in too.
"Is this your car sir?"
"yes" - I then showed all documents, licence etc.
They then proceeded to do a full search of the car including flipping through the pages of my A-Z.
"Can I ask why you're doing this?"
"There's been a high number of car thefts in the area, we just want to make sure it's your car"
"That was already established a few minutes ago" I replied "why the need for a car search?"
They didn't answer.
Next thing I heard was them talking into their radio's and it coming back from control "male, caucasian, 5ft 7in ....."
Now, I have never, ever been arrested or done anything that would put my personal data on their 'known to the police' list yet they had all my info on tap.
They left without so much as a "sorry to trouble you" and to this day I have no idea what they were looking for, though probably drugs etc.
This was 30 years ago. If they have our info then, long before the internet etc, they're going to know every little thing about us now.
It's not worth getting hot & bothered about.... unless you have something to hide.
[Post edited 1 Mar 2016 18:04]
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| The End of Democracy part 794... on 19:59 - Mar 1 with 4947 views | derbyhoop |
It's gesture politics at its worst. An erosion of our liberties all in the name of security, by somebody who doesn't understand modern communications.
There's 65m in the UK. I'd guess that around 80% use the internet every day. If the Service Providers have to hold backups of every interaction the volume of data required is going to be massive. If they also have to hold details of every conversation on Facebook, Twitter, Email, WhatsApp, Instagram, etc - all on the off chance that it might reveal a fraction of information from terrorists, it will take banks of super computers to trawl through, once intelligence services provide a clue of where to start.
In any case, any terrorist organisation with evil intent will surely pass their communications through proxy servers located in countries not subject to such draconian laws. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| The End of Democracy part 794... on 21:07 - Mar 1 with 4905 views | johncharles |
There's a great line from John le Carre which goes something like - Democracy is a privilege given to the serfs by the ruling classes to be taken away when they feel like it. |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| The End of Democracy part 794... on 21:14 - Mar 1 with 4891 views | distortR |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 21:07 - Mar 1 by johncharles |
There's a great line from John le Carre which goes something like - Democracy is a privilege given to the serfs by the ruling classes to be taken away when they feel like it. |
Smurfs, he said smurfs.
But yes, we are ruled over by a self-proclaimed elite who let us enjoy a fraction of the liberty that is ours by right. We serve the government, not the other way round. | | | |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 21:15 - Mar 1 with 4890 views | BrianMcCarthy |
A question, please. If a Bill passes both Houses and goes to the Queen for signing is there any device, discretionary or otherwise, to check that it is constitutional (albeit that Britain does not have a unified written constitution)? |  |
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| The End of Democracy part 794... on 22:37 - Mar 1 with 4835 views | TheBlob |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 21:15 - Mar 1 by BrianMcCarthy |
A question, please. If a Bill passes both Houses and goes to the Queen for signing is there any device, discretionary or otherwise, to check that it is constitutional (albeit that Britain does not have a unified written constitution)? |
Both houses would have shaken the thing to bits in the debating/voting process before it got to the Baked Bean.After that the only way to prevent it would be Revolution (I think). |  |
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| The End of Democracy part 794... on 22:42 - Mar 1 with 4827 views | distortR |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 21:15 - Mar 1 by BrianMcCarthy |
A question, please. If a Bill passes both Houses and goes to the Queen for signing is there any device, discretionary or otherwise, to check that it is constitutional (albeit that Britain does not have a unified written constitution)? |
Mate, I spout cliches, you know that. Please don't ask me to think, it'll only end in tears. | | | |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 23:03 - Mar 1 with 4789 views | Jigsore |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 16:46 - Mar 1 by stevec |
Theresa May is a wrong'un.
Job 1 - vote to Leave the EU
Only then can we get stuck into the establishment in this country, a battle worth fighting. |
you're looking at it the wrong away around, think how far down this path we'd be without the EU 'interfering' |  |
| “The thing about football - the important thing about football - is that it is not just about football.†|
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| The End of Democracy part 794... on 23:11 - Mar 1 with 4781 views | distortR |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 23:03 - Mar 1 by Jigsore |
you're looking at it the wrong away around, think how far down this path we'd be without the EU 'interfering' |
Big business trumps politicians in the eu as well as britain. I think the eu as workers/peoples protector is a sham. Free movement is a corporate charter first and foremost.I also know that we are royally f@@ked under the tories. On a more positive note, saw my first bluebell today. Of the year that is, not ever. | | | |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 00:43 - Mar 2 with 4744 views | Jigsore |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 23:11 - Mar 1 by distortR |
Big business trumps politicians in the eu as well as britain. I think the eu as workers/peoples protector is a sham. Free movement is a corporate charter first and foremost.I also know that we are royally f@@ked under the tories. On a more positive note, saw my first bluebell today. Of the year that is, not ever. |
aye i'm not naive enough to think it's all sunshine and rainbows but I think we'd have a better chance inside
of course I doubt Corbyn is a big fan of these massive civil rights infringements but apparently lots of people would rather live in a police state before they do that
ho hum, I can write a letter to my MP and get a pat on the head and that's it. Democracy in action | |
| “The thing about football - the important thing about football - is that it is not just about football.†|
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| The End of Democracy part 794... on 00:57 - Mar 2 with 4739 views | Hoop_Du_Jour |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 23:11 - Mar 1 by distortR |
Big business trumps politicians in the eu as well as britain. I think the eu as workers/peoples protector is a sham. Free movement is a corporate charter first and foremost.I also know that we are royally f@@ked under the tories. On a more positive note, saw my first bluebell today. Of the year that is, not ever. |
"Big business trumps politicians in the eu as well as britain. I think the eu as workers/peoples protector is a sham. Free movement is a corporate charter first and foremost."
A perfect summation of the EU.  |  | | |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 01:31 - Mar 2 with 4723 views | timcocking |
Ha, democracy. What a fcuking joke that is.
We need a total revolution. I'd try putting Clive in charge for a bit... |  | | |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 02:40 - Mar 2 with 4710 views | FredManRave |
If you're worried about people finding out what you're looking at on the Internet then just 'Clear History' when you've finished.
Anybody know the "End of Democracy" numbers for when prisons and police were invented or the more recent CCTV intrusion, to save me time looking for them. |  |
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| The End of Democracy part 794... on 11:16 - Mar 2 with 4626 views | Juzzie |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 02:40 - Mar 2 by FredManRave |
If you're worried about people finding out what you're looking at on the Internet then just 'Clear History' when you've finished.
Anybody know the "End of Democracy" numbers for when prisons and police were invented or the more recent CCTV intrusion, to save me time looking for them. |
'Clear history' only clears the details on your device. The data is still logged with your Internet Service Provider. | | | |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 12:48 - Mar 2 with 4585 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 14:50 - Mar 1 by Boston |
I voted you up One Bob, even though I find it difficult to understand your stance on the issue considering you're an avid supporter of the growth of government on everything else. |
Interesting to hear your perception of me and your surprise at my stance Bos. I would have thought people who've engaged with me before (politics wise) would have expected my utter resistance to things like this.
I'm certainly not a supporter of growth of government on 'EVERYTHING ELSE'. I'd be interested in your examples of this.
I think you may be mistaking my wanting us all to share the benefits of our communal infrastructure rather than having foreign 'investors' owning what we do. Think NHS, rail service, utilities, royal mail etc etc etc. Nothing to do with more government, much more about not getting sold by our elite and ripped off by foreign hedge funds and global corporations that are concerned solely with their profit.
I want less government in terms of the ever increasing restrictions and controls placed on the populace coinciding with ever more freedom for rampant corporations and the financial sector. TTIP being the final, no coming back from that one, nail in the coffin. | | | |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 13:00 - Mar 2 with 4577 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 02:40 - Mar 2 by FredManRave |
If you're worried about people finding out what you're looking at on the Internet then just 'Clear History' when you've finished.
Anybody know the "End of Democracy" numbers for when prisons and police were invented or the more recent CCTV intrusion, to save me time looking for them. |
Fred, I know you're a clever enough fella to know the difference between a state that has a police force and penal system and one that is obsessed with being able to spy on its populace to the point of knowing every correspondence they have and every website they visit. Granting such powers as a right to our 'rulers' is an extremely dangerous path to go down and the future it potentially provides for our children is quite alarming.
Unless of course you are someone who has complete faith in our elected leaders, who believes in their moral fibre, believes in their incorruptability, believes what they tell you and believes that they truly serve the electorate. In which case you're too far gone for any help!! [Post edited 2 Mar 2016 13:01]
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| The End of Democracy part 794... on 13:36 - Mar 2 with 4547 views | tribalr |
I'd rather just confess to murder. |  | | |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 16:34 - Mar 2 with 4496 views | FredManRave |
| The End of Democracy part 794... on 13:00 - Mar 2 by 1BobbyHazell |
Fred, I know you're a clever enough fella to know the difference between a state that has a police force and penal system and one that is obsessed with being able to spy on its populace to the point of knowing every correspondence they have and every website they visit. Granting such powers as a right to our 'rulers' is an extremely dangerous path to go down and the future it potentially provides for our children is quite alarming.
Unless of course you are someone who has complete faith in our elected leaders, who believes in their moral fibre, believes in their incorruptability, believes what they tell you and believes that they truly serve the electorate. In which case you're too far gone for any help!! [Post edited 2 Mar 2016 13:01]
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I don't usually comment on political threads, Bobby, due to not having lived in England for 14 years so I'm not in a position to provide an informed opinion and to be honest I'm not up to date with this bill having only read the article that you included in your original post. However, I've lived in Argentina for 14 years now so see how their democracy, politicians and police force "work" so when I saw the "End of Democracy" thread and the lamenting of the loss of civil liberties and all the other problems that the british public have to "suffer" I couldn't help myself by posting a sarcastic reply.
The main issue I have with this thread is the implication that it's "shit or bust". If I don't agre with your opinion I must have "complete faith in our elected leaders, believe in their moral fibre" etc etc. I always look for the good in people and hope they're trustworthy and honest but I'm not that naive to think that everybody is, less so people in power. But why does it have to be so black and white. Maybe I think that we live in very worrying times (in England) and that the rapid change in technology and the ability of people to use it to help to commit crimes means that "we" should be able to use technology to protect us. This has undoubtedly been the case due to the success of preventing many an alleged terrorist threat. Do you agree the "establishment" should have the means to justify access in certain situations? Nobody on this thread has suggested an alternative just criticised the proposal. It's obviously the idea that they can access anything and everything that makes you uncomfortable and I agree to an extent but I can't help think it's a bit paranoid to think that the police are going to waste their time looking at all of our internet access. Maybe I'm missing your point regarding our civil liberties and the point in general about the gradual erosion, drip, drip, drip of our privacies but I honestly and maybe naively don't think they'll be wasting their time investigating my Mums daily internet connections to "Scrabble Online" or my brothers viewing of pornography (although they'd be amazed at just how much time he spends viewing it). And I felt the same when many people objected to cctv cameras becoming a part of everyday life in towns and city centres. They're there to protect us not to spy on us but I'm open to proof otherwise. The old adage of, if you're not doing anything wrong then you've got nothing to worry about, works for me coupled with the opinion that some policeman watching me walk down the high street or checking out my internet usage is a small price to pay for an improved level of protection. I can almost hear you banging your head on the table but that's my view from afar. | |
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