| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread 14:40 - Jun 23 with 24125 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Iโm Balkan at the thought of this.
1-1 |  | | |  |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 08:37 - Jun 26 with 2259 views | slmrstid |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 08:15 - Jun 26 by nix |
That's the bit I don't get. He basically had a free hit yesterday because we were highly likely to qualify. So a really excellent opportunity to give Palmer and Cole a chance and to rest Saka and Bellingham who look knackered from carrying any kind of forward threat.
But he flogs them for another almost 90 minutes. Why? Is it because he doesn't even want to have a choice?
I'm beginning to think that it is one way to differentiate a decent coach from a rubbish one: whether they can change up the team mid-match. A really good coach will have a plan B and will be able to alter the formula by bringing in other players at 60 minutes.
But this is a man who chooses Jimmy Hassalbaink as his coach. A man so dull he makes Southgate look like Mick Jagger.
What's sad is that anyone who only watches England games is going to be completely turned off football. If that's the only way of winning international tournaments then we need to change the formula so you don't get so many teams going through to the play off stages and so they actually have to try a bit harder to, you know, beat the other team. |
I couldn't watch the game last night as was out but was listening to it on the radio.
I think Nix has a point, a consequence of this 24 team tournament going into 16 is that it rewards negative football - ie don't lose and you're guaranteed to go through pretty much, even without winning an actual game (as Denmark and Slovenia have just proved...) As a result loads of teams, including what I'd call Tier 2 nations like Slovenia and Serbia, just stick 10 men behind the ball, hope to nick something on a counter attack, and bore everyone to death.
That said, it is down to the "better" nations as England claim to be to have to be able to find a way to win.
I imagine as well everyone saw Scotland open up in game 1 and have Germany run a big fat German pork sword right through them and that clearly gets across the message that keeping games tight is the way to go for the smaller nations.
It will be interesting from the next round onwards when its win or go home. Teams will have to open up and that should create opportunities, and actually playing better teams should be easier to play against.
That said this all has the feel of 2010 South Africa to me - quite a well hyped England team, the manager at the time was seen as indomitable, we then struggled through the group stage with 5 points and 1 win, fans booed at stadiums, Wayne Rooney was caught on TV moaning about them, then got battered in the next round by an excellent young German team. |  | | |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 10:12 - Jun 26 with 2071 views | Northernr |
The body language looks weird to me. A lot of the arms outstretched stuff we saw under Ainsworth - which is rich footballers wishing to convey to the crowd they don't understand/like what they're being told to do. Bellingham has one from best player in the world in the first game to not even the best player for my Monday night team in the subsequent ones.
All very strange. We're a strange watch. |  | | |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 10:19 - Jun 26 with 2044 views | daveB |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 10:12 - Jun 26 by Northernr |
The body language looks weird to me. A lot of the arms outstretched stuff we saw under Ainsworth - which is rich footballers wishing to convey to the crowd they don't understand/like what they're being told to do. Bellingham has one from best player in the world in the first game to not even the best player for my Monday night team in the subsequent ones.
All very strange. We're a strange watch. |
2 of the best teams on paper (Us and France) have looked similar in being really disjoined, players look unhappy and they've stunk the place out
There is obviously a different pressure from previous tournaments with more expectations but it's not massively different to other ones, fans and media always talk up England even when we've got no chance.
It just all feels like a massive missed opportunity so far and they need a big performance on Sunday to turn this around. Southgate has been so good in previous tournaments but doesn't look right this time |  | | |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 10:21 - Jun 26 with 2019 views | TheChef |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 01:40 - Jun 26 by Hoopsie |
Best teams donโt win tournaments
England will be ok |
Southgate channelling the spirit of Otto Rehhagel... |  |
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| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 10:24 - Jun 26 with 1994 views | TheChef |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 10:12 - Jun 26 by Northernr |
The body language looks weird to me. A lot of the arms outstretched stuff we saw under Ainsworth - which is rich footballers wishing to convey to the crowd they don't understand/like what they're being told to do. Bellingham has one from best player in the world in the first game to not even the best player for my Monday night team in the subsequent ones.
All very strange. We're a strange watch. |
Well if we don't like the way they're playing, there's a good chance most of the players don't either. Let alone the squad players who are unlikely to get any time on the pitch.
Shame this is how Southgate's tenure is ending, but there you are. | |
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| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 10:44 - Jun 26 with 1893 views | hubble |
The great thing about this tournament, so far at least, is that there has been plenty of fantastic football to enjoy. And to be honest, I couldn't really give a toss* about England.
It's always been some kind of cross to bear to support Ingurland; the weight of expectation, the hype and all that nonsense. Nowadays, I guess I'm more sanguine, because I just don't care who wins it, as long as there are some great matches along the way.
Anyway, after visiting my friends in Vienna earlier this year and really enjoying myself, I made Austria my 'team of the tournament' at the start, and so far they've really delivered!
*well, ok, maybe I could give a toss, given how much Southgate has irritated me, but even so, I really don't feel attached to what happens to the England team. |  |
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| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 10:50 - Jun 26 with 1876 views | MedwayR |
A failed Middlesbrough manager teamed up with a failed QPR manager, hardly a recipe for success, we can't be that surprised at how this is turning out. Imagine going from the likes of Pep and Ancelotti to Southgate & Hasselbaink.
We lost any chance of momentum in the group with the negative approach and square pegs-round holes set up from the very start. That then creates problems with giving game time to the likes of Wharton, Mainoo, Palmer etc because the pressure to perform increases - fortunately, they seem up for the challenge. It's also led to a lack of confidence throughout the team, I've never seen players such as Walker play so poorly.
Why are we still shoehorning players into a back 4 when we don't have a LB, play a back 3. I know we've only conceded 1 goal, but we've still not been particularly convincing defensively.
I can't see any coaching input in the team. Set-pieces were once a strength but are now poor. Positioning and formation is a mess. There's no attacking pattern of play, we seem to be relying on things happening by chance.
Foden has woken up to the fact that he needs to get hold of the game. I can understand how he in particular is struggling having gone from a manager who coaches a system as close to perfection as possible, with a clearly defined role for him to a manager where he'll make sure we don't concede and hope that individual brilliance will get us a goal. A manager like Pep would probably struggle at international level because of limited time on the training ground, and I suspect Foden struggles for the same reason. Whereas players like Palmer & Eze should adapt more easily as they're already in the position at club level where they have limited attacking set up around them and are relied upon to create for the team almost on their own.
Kane doesn't look fit, and Bellingham (who I think is massively overrated anyway) looks very tired too. It would be interesting to hear the medical teams view on whether those 2 in particular should've been rested for a game or 2 in the group stage.
I think he needed to make more than 1 change last night, I think we all did, and now he has pressure to start Mainoo, Palmer & Gordon but he won't like to make such big changes for the knockout rounds so he's put himself in a tricky spot. Last night was the time to make 3-4 changes, another missed opportunity.
We can only get better, I hope... |  |
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| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 10:52 - Jun 26 with 1863 views | Northernr |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 10:24 - Jun 26 by TheChef |
Well if we don't like the way they're playing, there's a good chance most of the players don't either. Let alone the squad players who are unlikely to get any time on the pitch.
Shame this is how Southgate's tenure is ending, but there you are. |
I don't get things like Gordon coming on with a minute to go. What are we achieving with that? | | | |
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| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 10:56 - Jun 26 with 1832 views | hubble |
Highlights:
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| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 11:03 - Jun 26 with 1800 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
I wonder if the attempts at high possession low intensity is deliberate and related to preserving fitness for the knock out stages?
Thatโs my straw clutching anyway. | | | |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 11:07 - Jun 26 with 1769 views | Sonofpugwash |
Best two hours' sleep I've had in a long while. |  |
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| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 11:13 - Jun 26 with 1725 views | Sonofpugwash |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 10:52 - Jun 26 by Northernr |
I don't get things like Gordon coming on with a minute to go. What are we achieving with that? |
Swapping full backs will solve everything.What actually is the point of Alexander Arnold anyway? | |
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| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 11:19 - Jun 26 with 1711 views | TheChef |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 11:03 - Jun 26 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I wonder if the attempts at high possession low intensity is deliberate and related to preserving fitness for the knock out stages?
Thatโs my straw clutching anyway. |
Yes the Southgate strategy for the group phase is entirely different from his strategy for the knock out phase.
I'm clutching that straw too!  | |
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| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 11:31 - Jun 26 with 1676 views | CamberleyR |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 10:52 - Jun 26 by Northernr |
I don't get things like Gordon coming on with a minute to go. What are we achieving with that? |
I'm sure Gareth Ainsworth could supply the answer  |  |
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| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 11:36 - Jun 26 with 1653 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 11:19 - Jun 26 by TheChef |
Yes the Southgate strategy for the group phase is entirely different from his strategy for the knock out phase.
I'm clutching that straw too! |
It really isnโt: he will play exactly the same team apart from Mainoo starting instead of Gallagher.
He had a free hit yesterday and should have rested โtiredโ players such as Kane, Bellingham and Saka but he didnโt want to โriskโ throwing young players in. However he was forced to start Guehi at CB at the beginning of the tournament with very little experience and he has probably been our best player so far. |  | | |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 11:47 - Jun 26 with 1607 views | CamberleyR |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 11:36 - Jun 26 by Ned_Kennedys |
It really isnโt: he will play exactly the same team apart from Mainoo starting instead of Gallagher.
He had a free hit yesterday and should have rested โtiredโ players such as Kane, Bellingham and Saka but he didnโt want to โriskโ throwing young players in. However he was forced to start Guehi at CB at the beginning of the tournament with very little experience and he has probably been our best player so far. |
Agree.
Everyone knows that team we finished with should have been the starting team for this game and if we were going to try a couple of different faces and give a couple a rest, this was the game to do it. They'd have won 2 or 3-0 and would have had a bit of momentum going into the knockouts. | |
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| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 11:48 - Jun 26 with 1598 views | Juzzie |
The two things commentators say (especially in tournaments) that baffles me is that the weather during a game can affect the players and that the players are tired after a long club season.
Ummm.... that's the same for everyone, it's not exclusive to just us. |  | | |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 13:26 - Jun 26 with 1386 views | TheChef |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 11:36 - Jun 26 by Ned_Kennedys |
It really isnโt: he will play exactly the same team apart from Mainoo starting instead of Gallagher.
He had a free hit yesterday and should have rested โtiredโ players such as Kane, Bellingham and Saka but he didnโt want to โriskโ throwing young players in. However he was forced to start Guehi at CB at the beginning of the tournament with very little experience and he has probably been our best player so far. |
Oh yeah I know that.
So we're hard to beat but lost the ability to score. I'm predicting a 0-0 and go out on penalties as per. | |
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| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 13:37 - Jun 26 with 1357 views | Superhoop83 |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 11:13 - Jun 26 by Sonofpugwash |
Swapping full backs will solve everything.What actually is the point of Alexander Arnold anyway? |
His sweeping 40 yards passes from right to left and the occasional worldie.
That's it. |  |
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| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 14:34 - Jun 26 with 1249 views | Sonofpugwash |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 13:37 - Jun 26 by Superhoop83 |
His sweeping 40 yards passes from right to left and the occasional worldie.
That's it. |
Thanks for clearing that up. | |
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| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 15:16 - Jun 26 with 1191 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 01:40 - Jun 26 by Hoopsie |
Best teams donโt win tournaments
England will be ok |
Valid point and a lot of good teams knock each other out so that leaves the door open for anybody to go deep really.
England will be able to handle the next test Sunday and then its just a matter of taking it as it comes and just beating that team.
I picked them to make the final myself and still expect them to but they need to get the starting 11 and formation right.
Instead of scoring first maybe they fall behind and play with desperation instead of scoring first and going into reverse .
Southgate should have started Palmer and Gordon yesterday they both play with a lot of energy and are tough to defend then brough on Eze to give him another taste before its do or die games |  | | |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 15:33 - Jun 26 with 1141 views | kensalriser |
Spain, the only really convincing team in the competition so far, made ten changes for their final game. That probably wouldn't have been advisable for England, but four or five changes would have been comfortable and we'd have been no less likely to win. |  |
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| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 16:30 - Jun 26 with 1038 views | Konk |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 10:52 - Jun 26 by Northernr |
I don't get things like Gordon coming on with a minute to go. What are we achieving with that? |
Bringing Gordon on in the 89th minute made me want to cry. The good news was that even in 4 minutes or whatever he was on for, he still made a positive impression, which barely anyone else did. Imagine what he might do with 5 minutes next time! Similarly, we looked better with Palmer on, so you never know, we might get to see him again too.
Mainoo did okay, so that's hopefully the end of TAA or Gallagher playing alongside Rice., which would be a bonus.
Last night really tested my patience. Making one change, and that being Conor Gallagher starting, was exactly what everyone knew would happen, and completely not what was needed. I really want Southgate to go out on a high - he's a decent bloke, I think he's overall done a good job etc, but fu ck me, we've been grim. I'm trying to take comfort by remembering how sh it we usually are in group stages, and hoping we stumble across some positive chemistry in the knock-outs. |  |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 16:39 - Jun 26 with 1012 views | TheChef |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 16:30 - Jun 26 by Konk |
Bringing Gordon on in the 89th minute made me want to cry. The good news was that even in 4 minutes or whatever he was on for, he still made a positive impression, which barely anyone else did. Imagine what he might do with 5 minutes next time! Similarly, we looked better with Palmer on, so you never know, we might get to see him again too.
Mainoo did okay, so that's hopefully the end of TAA or Gallagher playing alongside Rice., which would be a bonus.
Last night really tested my patience. Making one change, and that being Conor Gallagher starting, was exactly what everyone knew would happen, and completely not what was needed. I really want Southgate to go out on a high - he's a decent bloke, I think he's overall done a good job etc, but fu ck me, we've been grim. I'm trying to take comfort by remembering how sh it we usually are in group stages, and hoping we stumble across some positive chemistry in the knock-outs. |
Still wearing my rose-ish tinted glasses thinking of:
Italy who were crap in the group stages in 1982
Portugal who were crap in the group stages in 2016
Greece in 2004 (obvs) | |
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| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 16:49 - Jun 26 with 981 views | CamberleyR |
| England ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ v Slovenia ๐ธ๐ฎ Match Thread on 16:39 - Jun 26 by TheChef |
Still wearing my rose-ish tinted glasses thinking of:
Italy who were crap in the group stages in 1982
Portugal who were crap in the group stages in 2016
Greece in 2004 (obvs) |
Argentina in 1990 who stunk the place out from minute 1 and somehow fluked their way to the final. [Post edited 26 Jun 16:50]
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