| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs 15:20 - Dec 26 with 11957 views | ParkRoyalR |
Marti, that one's on you, removing Larkeche is beyond belief, amongst other baffling choices.
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| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 14:03 - Dec 28 with 1579 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 13:21 - Dec 28 by Northernr |
Do we have the players for any formation? The theme here is you still have faith that with different team selections, different substitutions, different tactics, this is still a competitive squad, whereas I don't. |
Yes I do, as think we have 15 outfield players as below who can play at this level and care,
I also think there are 3 worse teams than us if we can put out the team below in a 4-2-3-1 (or 5-3-2) formation, with players in brackets under-studies for those likely frequently injured / unavailable:
4 - Cannon(Kakay) / Cook(Dunne) / JCS(Fox) / Paal
2 - Colback(EDB) / Field
3 - Willock(EDB-Smyth) / Chair / Larkeche
1 - Dykes (January Loanee)
Alternately 5-3-2 would also be an improvement on Tuesday on basis of a mobile & forward thinking 3 of EDB, Chair & Larkeche:
5 - Cannon / Cook / Dunne / JCS / Paal
3- EDB / Chair / Larkeche
2 - Dykes / Willock(Smyth)
I just don't think this group is as bad as Tuesday and regardless of their limitations (Kakay - positional play, Dunne being caught square on too often) I would back these players to get us out of this. | | | |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 14:05 - Dec 28 with 1563 views | lassel |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 13:05 - Dec 28 by CLAREMAN1995 |
Is there some reason Dickie went from a top Championship maybe PL bench player to someone who looked frightened walking out the tunnel.
Now Jimmy Dunne has gone from one of our top defenders to a massive liability and costing us game after game .
Dozzell is born at the right time to be in the QPR starting 11 because he would not be starting on any other team IMO.
Cannon is getting very little flak on here but he could have snatched us a point then gave up the needless corner when they scrambled their killer second goal.
I realize we self destructed again but Marti is making some strange decisions IMO |
For me a big part of it is that the defence consistently have no protection from the midfield and haven’t since before Warburton left.
Field now spends 90 minutes on a solo quest to get booked as ridiculously as possible and then unable to commit to any challenges (until tomorrow as he likely wants New Years off) and Dozzell hasn’t gone for a 50/50 since juniors school. Even with Colback who was supposed to be the experienced head to add some protection, he has spent over a decade racking up 10+ booking a year for daft challenges.
You see it with Cook now - he has been openly furious with his teammates several times this season and everything is constantly last ditch to try and plug offences coming through the gaping hole infront of the back 4. | | | |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 14:07 - Dec 28 with 1547 views | Northernr |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 14:03 - Dec 28 by ParkRoyalR |
Yes I do, as think we have 15 outfield players as below who can play at this level and care,
I also think there are 3 worse teams than us if we can put out the team below in a 4-2-3-1 (or 5-3-2) formation, with players in brackets under-studies for those likely frequently injured / unavailable:
4 - Cannon(Kakay) / Cook(Dunne) / JCS(Fox) / Paal
2 - Colback(EDB) / Field
3 - Willock(EDB-Smyth) / Chair / Larkeche
1 - Dykes (January Loanee)
Alternately 5-3-2 would also be an improvement on Tuesday on basis of a mobile & forward thinking 3 of EDB, Chair & Larkeche:
5 - Cannon / Cook / Dunne / JCS / Paal
3- EDB / Chair / Larkeche
2 - Dykes / Willock(Smyth)
I just don't think this group is as bad as Tuesday and regardless of their limitations (Kakay - positional play, Dunne being caught square on too often) I would back these players to get us out of this. |
We have now lost 50 of out last 92 matches over the last two years, and won 22 of them. We lose more than every other game we play, and we win barely one in five.
Why is that, if we're not as bad as we showed (again) on Tuesday?
Where are these three worse teams, because statistically there isn't a team in the country who has lost as many games as QPR over the last 1, 2, 5 or 10 years? |  | | |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 14:09 - Dec 28 with 1545 views | Northernr |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 14:05 - Dec 28 by lassel |
For me a big part of it is that the defence consistently have no protection from the midfield and haven’t since before Warburton left.
Field now spends 90 minutes on a solo quest to get booked as ridiculously as possible and then unable to commit to any challenges (until tomorrow as he likely wants New Years off) and Dozzell hasn’t gone for a 50/50 since juniors school. Even with Colback who was supposed to be the experienced head to add some protection, he has spent over a decade racking up 10+ booking a year for daft challenges.
You see it with Cook now - he has been openly furious with his teammates several times this season and everything is constantly last ditch to try and plug offences coming through the gaping hole infront of the back 4. |
It's the worst midfield in the division, by a mile. By a mile. | | | |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 14:16 - Dec 28 with 1507 views | PunteR |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 14:01 - Dec 28 by Northernr |
Boxing Day was the players, 10,000%. Cowardly little twts.
Overall the problems are higher up.
They're nothing to do with Marti Cifuentes, his substitutions, or his post match interviews. We need to stop doing this to ourselves. |
I'm with you on Marti Cifuentes. When i say training im not pointing the finger at MC. Theres a whole host of culprits within his staff. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 14:24 - Dec 28 with 1488 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 14:07 - Dec 28 by Northernr |
We have now lost 50 of out last 92 matches over the last two years, and won 22 of them. We lose more than every other game we play, and we win barely one in five.
Why is that, if we're not as bad as we showed (again) on Tuesday?
Where are these three worse teams, because statistically there isn't a team in the country who has lost as many games as QPR over the last 1, 2, 5 or 10 years? |
Wowzer, 22 wins in 92 games, that's sobering!
I always think there's a way, but those stats say otherwise, and I'm on thin ground here but..
My only remaining hopes are:
1) EDB & Larkeche can quickly prove to be the players I think they can be
2) Marti proves to be a pragmatist and not an idealist and sees 4-3-3 totally exposes them
3) We can find the next Henrik Larsson in the Swedish league in January | | | |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 14:27 - Dec 28 with 1479 views | Northernr |
I'll say this and then I'll shut up because I'm clearly in a bad mood and I've still got a fcking preview to write.
These players are what they are. Mentally weak, and not very good. They are showing you it over and over and over again, and yet I'm still coming on here reading about how different it would have been if we'd swapped a couple of them over, or put them in a different shape. We have had 5 managers in 2 years, a whole range of styles and approaches within that, and we have lost more games than any other team in the country.
I have seen them do that Millwall game over and over again. I've seen them do what they did at Sheff Wed, over and over again. They get bullied and beaten up and physically intimidated. They take easy options, short cuts and cheats. They'd rather dive to try and get a free kick than stand up to a bit of contact and play. They'd rather pass it backwards and let somebody else have responsibility, than strap a pair on and try a difficult pass that might mean they give the ball away. On the rare occasions they do get in front they go and stand on their own goalline and just try and punt the ball away and run the clock down rather than continuing to play and trying to score more.
It's possibly the worst QPR team I've ever seen, and Cifuentes has inherited that, with no transfer window open, and no budget to do anything about it even if it was.
The rebuild job here is catastrophically large. We basically need a new player in every single position. Clarke-Salter and Chair are the only players we have who would get anywhere near even the midtable teams in this league, and Clarke-Salter is made of tissue paper. It's going to take many years.
And yet the pattern I see repeating online is the one we're seeing post Millwall. "Oh I like the manager, he's a breath of fresh air, but he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". In a few weeks that becomes "Well I did like the manager when he first came, he was a breath of fresh air, but now he's making all the same mistakes Ainsworth did, he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". Another few weeks and that'll be "I don't really see the difference between this bloke and Ainsworth, he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". And then finally "EVEN AINSWORTH WASN'T THIS STUPID, he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". Manager gets the sack, new manager comes in,,players are still the same players, cycle starts over.
I am imploring you all, do not do it with this guy. He has inherited a fcking time bomb that's got about 45 seconds left on it. There is only so much he can do, and with 12 points already that's 10 more points than I thought he'd be able to manage.
The substitutions, the team selections, the post match interviews, have nothing to do with it. This team and squad is rotten. You can put it in whatever shape you like, make whatever substitutions you like, it might get better for a game or two, but ultimately it's rotten and the blame for that exists entirely north of this manager.
They win at Ipswich now, of course, and all the jolly positive people bring posts like this back up and go "hahaha northernr looks an idiot again". But they'll regress back to the mean soon enough, as they have done after the three win sequence, because that is what and who they are. | | | |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 14:28 - Dec 28 with 1477 views | Northernr |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 14:16 - Dec 28 by PunteR |
I'm with you on Marti Cifuentes. When i say training im not pointing the finger at MC. Theres a whole host of culprits within his staff. |
Well I agree there are people here I cannot believe are still employed. | | | |
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| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 14:49 - Dec 28 with 1428 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 14:27 - Dec 28 by Northernr |
I'll say this and then I'll shut up because I'm clearly in a bad mood and I've still got a fcking preview to write.
These players are what they are. Mentally weak, and not very good. They are showing you it over and over and over again, and yet I'm still coming on here reading about how different it would have been if we'd swapped a couple of them over, or put them in a different shape. We have had 5 managers in 2 years, a whole range of styles and approaches within that, and we have lost more games than any other team in the country.
I have seen them do that Millwall game over and over again. I've seen them do what they did at Sheff Wed, over and over again. They get bullied and beaten up and physically intimidated. They take easy options, short cuts and cheats. They'd rather dive to try and get a free kick than stand up to a bit of contact and play. They'd rather pass it backwards and let somebody else have responsibility, than strap a pair on and try a difficult pass that might mean they give the ball away. On the rare occasions they do get in front they go and stand on their own goalline and just try and punt the ball away and run the clock down rather than continuing to play and trying to score more.
It's possibly the worst QPR team I've ever seen, and Cifuentes has inherited that, with no transfer window open, and no budget to do anything about it even if it was.
The rebuild job here is catastrophically large. We basically need a new player in every single position. Clarke-Salter and Chair are the only players we have who would get anywhere near even the midtable teams in this league, and Clarke-Salter is made of tissue paper. It's going to take many years.
And yet the pattern I see repeating online is the one we're seeing post Millwall. "Oh I like the manager, he's a breath of fresh air, but he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". In a few weeks that becomes "Well I did like the manager when he first came, he was a breath of fresh air, but now he's making all the same mistakes Ainsworth did, he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". Another few weeks and that'll be "I don't really see the difference between this bloke and Ainsworth, he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". And then finally "EVEN AINSWORTH WASN'T THIS STUPID, he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". Manager gets the sack, new manager comes in,,players are still the same players, cycle starts over.
I am imploring you all, do not do it with this guy. He has inherited a fcking time bomb that's got about 45 seconds left on it. There is only so much he can do, and with 12 points already that's 10 more points than I thought he'd be able to manage.
The substitutions, the team selections, the post match interviews, have nothing to do with it. This team and squad is rotten. You can put it in whatever shape you like, make whatever substitutions you like, it might get better for a game or two, but ultimately it's rotten and the blame for that exists entirely north of this manager.
They win at Ipswich now, of course, and all the jolly positive people bring posts like this back up and go "hahaha northernr looks an idiot again". But they'll regress back to the mean soon enough, as they have done after the three win sequence, because that is what and who they are. |
After games like Blackburn at home I'm hoping no-one would ever turn on Marti and compare him to others,
Being a stats based realist usually wins out against a hope based optimist, so I'm with you on this,
I went to Ipswich under Mick McCarthy when they never had a shot against us and 20,000 odd Ipswich fans sat in total silence throughout the 90 minutes, I actually felt sorry for them,
We can only hope after the last 10 years we can find someone to financially back Marti and overhaul our backroom top to bottom, in the way McKenna & Co seem to have done at Ipswich. | | | |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 15:05 - Dec 28 with 1400 views | NorthantsHoop |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 14:27 - Dec 28 by Northernr |
I'll say this and then I'll shut up because I'm clearly in a bad mood and I've still got a fcking preview to write.
These players are what they are. Mentally weak, and not very good. They are showing you it over and over and over again, and yet I'm still coming on here reading about how different it would have been if we'd swapped a couple of them over, or put them in a different shape. We have had 5 managers in 2 years, a whole range of styles and approaches within that, and we have lost more games than any other team in the country.
I have seen them do that Millwall game over and over again. I've seen them do what they did at Sheff Wed, over and over again. They get bullied and beaten up and physically intimidated. They take easy options, short cuts and cheats. They'd rather dive to try and get a free kick than stand up to a bit of contact and play. They'd rather pass it backwards and let somebody else have responsibility, than strap a pair on and try a difficult pass that might mean they give the ball away. On the rare occasions they do get in front they go and stand on their own goalline and just try and punt the ball away and run the clock down rather than continuing to play and trying to score more.
It's possibly the worst QPR team I've ever seen, and Cifuentes has inherited that, with no transfer window open, and no budget to do anything about it even if it was.
The rebuild job here is catastrophically large. We basically need a new player in every single position. Clarke-Salter and Chair are the only players we have who would get anywhere near even the midtable teams in this league, and Clarke-Salter is made of tissue paper. It's going to take many years.
And yet the pattern I see repeating online is the one we're seeing post Millwall. "Oh I like the manager, he's a breath of fresh air, but he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". In a few weeks that becomes "Well I did like the manager when he first came, he was a breath of fresh air, but now he's making all the same mistakes Ainsworth did, he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". Another few weeks and that'll be "I don't really see the difference between this bloke and Ainsworth, he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". And then finally "EVEN AINSWORTH WASN'T THIS STUPID, he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". Manager gets the sack, new manager comes in,,players are still the same players, cycle starts over.
I am imploring you all, do not do it with this guy. He has inherited a fcking time bomb that's got about 45 seconds left on it. There is only so much he can do, and with 12 points already that's 10 more points than I thought he'd be able to manage.
The substitutions, the team selections, the post match interviews, have nothing to do with it. This team and squad is rotten. You can put it in whatever shape you like, make whatever substitutions you like, it might get better for a game or two, but ultimately it's rotten and the blame for that exists entirely north of this manager.
They win at Ipswich now, of course, and all the jolly positive people bring posts like this back up and go "hahaha northernr looks an idiot again". But they'll regress back to the mean soon enough, as they have done after the three win sequence, because that is what and who they are. |
Agree on this, the unfortunate part is we are stuck with all these players at least to the end of the season. I just hope that Marti can pull a rabbit out of a hat and somehow keep us up, really don't fancy League 1 we would struggle to cope there as the soft underbelly of the club would be further exposed. |  | | |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 15:34 - Dec 28 with 1370 views | ed_83 |
Completely agree with Clive. I'm generally a glass half full guy, willing to give players and staff the benefit of the doubt, and I believe that many of them are genuinely doing their best, but something feels fundamentally broken about us as a club, from the youth teams to the boardroom.
How long have we been going on about these players being too timid, too fragile, too prone to collapse? How long have they been falling short in exactly the same ways? What consequences have they faced, beyond rotating the manager and hoping that fixes things? Past a certain point you have to look deeper, at the underlying mentality throughout the club, and the standards we set for players and staff.
A seasoned pro like Jack Colback comes in with a clear remit to add some backbone to the first team: instead, he spends half a season behaving like an absolute tart, turning in undercooked performances week after week and picking up a succession of idiotic bookings and red cards which rule him out for several vital games.
That's not a failure of starting lineups or formations, it's a reflection of a club where the underlying professional culture is rotten, and players feel entitled to phone it in, safe in the knowledge that they won't be held to account.
I keep coming back to the moment Clive pointed out how lazy and disorganised our half-time warmups were. Those small details matter, and wouldn't happen at a club where standards were being properly set and enforced.
A properly run club wouldn't keep letting players turn in the sort of performances we've seen over years and years, without someone pulling the whole club up on it, and demanding fundamental changes to how things operate. A properly run club wouldn't keep appointing managers over the head of its Director of Football, let him resign without having a successor in place, then spend a minimum of five months and counting without a new one being appointed.
Forget individual matches, substitutions, performances: if we want to be consistently competitive at anything above League 2 level, the entire way that QPR operates needs to change. [Post edited 28 Dec 2023 15:38]
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| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 15:55 - Dec 28 with 1344 views | The_Beast1976 |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 14:27 - Dec 28 by Northernr |
I'll say this and then I'll shut up because I'm clearly in a bad mood and I've still got a fcking preview to write.
These players are what they are. Mentally weak, and not very good. They are showing you it over and over and over again, and yet I'm still coming on here reading about how different it would have been if we'd swapped a couple of them over, or put them in a different shape. We have had 5 managers in 2 years, a whole range of styles and approaches within that, and we have lost more games than any other team in the country.
I have seen them do that Millwall game over and over again. I've seen them do what they did at Sheff Wed, over and over again. They get bullied and beaten up and physically intimidated. They take easy options, short cuts and cheats. They'd rather dive to try and get a free kick than stand up to a bit of contact and play. They'd rather pass it backwards and let somebody else have responsibility, than strap a pair on and try a difficult pass that might mean they give the ball away. On the rare occasions they do get in front they go and stand on their own goalline and just try and punt the ball away and run the clock down rather than continuing to play and trying to score more.
It's possibly the worst QPR team I've ever seen, and Cifuentes has inherited that, with no transfer window open, and no budget to do anything about it even if it was.
The rebuild job here is catastrophically large. We basically need a new player in every single position. Clarke-Salter and Chair are the only players we have who would get anywhere near even the midtable teams in this league, and Clarke-Salter is made of tissue paper. It's going to take many years.
And yet the pattern I see repeating online is the one we're seeing post Millwall. "Oh I like the manager, he's a breath of fresh air, but he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". In a few weeks that becomes "Well I did like the manager when he first came, he was a breath of fresh air, but now he's making all the same mistakes Ainsworth did, he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". Another few weeks and that'll be "I don't really see the difference between this bloke and Ainsworth, he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". And then finally "EVEN AINSWORTH WASN'T THIS STUPID, he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". Manager gets the sack, new manager comes in,,players are still the same players, cycle starts over.
I am imploring you all, do not do it with this guy. He has inherited a fcking time bomb that's got about 45 seconds left on it. There is only so much he can do, and with 12 points already that's 10 more points than I thought he'd be able to manage.
The substitutions, the team selections, the post match interviews, have nothing to do with it. This team and squad is rotten. You can put it in whatever shape you like, make whatever substitutions you like, it might get better for a game or two, but ultimately it's rotten and the blame for that exists entirely north of this manager.
They win at Ipswich now, of course, and all the jolly positive people bring posts like this back up and go "hahaha northernr looks an idiot again". But they'll regress back to the mean soon enough, as they have done after the three win sequence, because that is what and who they are. |
Very well put. We all need to back MC whatever happens, and allow him to undertake the rebuild. However, IMO we do need a close eye on the owners and Hoos and get right on their case (with mass protests if needs be) if they look like fcuking more things up. | | | |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 16:06 - Dec 28 with 1322 views | daveB |
no matter what you tweak with this squad it never lasts long as we're not very good. the switch to 3 at the back brought about a massive improvement in performances which lasted about 5 games (being kind with that many) then reverted to type. Same with that unbeaten 4/5 game run under Marti quickly turned as they are crap
Even the 3 in a row we won we were a bit fortunate against both Stoke and Hull to come away with wins
I think with a good January we could stay up but it's going to be very close and we're going to have to be almost note perfect from now on to make that happen |  | | |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 17:06 - Dec 28 with 1203 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 14:27 - Dec 28 by Northernr |
I'll say this and then I'll shut up because I'm clearly in a bad mood and I've still got a fcking preview to write.
These players are what they are. Mentally weak, and not very good. They are showing you it over and over and over again, and yet I'm still coming on here reading about how different it would have been if we'd swapped a couple of them over, or put them in a different shape. We have had 5 managers in 2 years, a whole range of styles and approaches within that, and we have lost more games than any other team in the country.
I have seen them do that Millwall game over and over again. I've seen them do what they did at Sheff Wed, over and over again. They get bullied and beaten up and physically intimidated. They take easy options, short cuts and cheats. They'd rather dive to try and get a free kick than stand up to a bit of contact and play. They'd rather pass it backwards and let somebody else have responsibility, than strap a pair on and try a difficult pass that might mean they give the ball away. On the rare occasions they do get in front they go and stand on their own goalline and just try and punt the ball away and run the clock down rather than continuing to play and trying to score more.
It's possibly the worst QPR team I've ever seen, and Cifuentes has inherited that, with no transfer window open, and no budget to do anything about it even if it was.
The rebuild job here is catastrophically large. We basically need a new player in every single position. Clarke-Salter and Chair are the only players we have who would get anywhere near even the midtable teams in this league, and Clarke-Salter is made of tissue paper. It's going to take many years.
And yet the pattern I see repeating online is the one we're seeing post Millwall. "Oh I like the manager, he's a breath of fresh air, but he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". In a few weeks that becomes "Well I did like the manager when he first came, he was a breath of fresh air, but now he's making all the same mistakes Ainsworth did, he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". Another few weeks and that'll be "I don't really see the difference between this bloke and Ainsworth, he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". And then finally "EVEN AINSWORTH WASN'T THIS STUPID, he got that one wrong, I didn't like that substitution, I didn't like that post match interview". Manager gets the sack, new manager comes in,,players are still the same players, cycle starts over.
I am imploring you all, do not do it with this guy. He has inherited a fcking time bomb that's got about 45 seconds left on it. There is only so much he can do, and with 12 points already that's 10 more points than I thought he'd be able to manage.
The substitutions, the team selections, the post match interviews, have nothing to do with it. This team and squad is rotten. You can put it in whatever shape you like, make whatever substitutions you like, it might get better for a game or two, but ultimately it's rotten and the blame for that exists entirely north of this manager.
They win at Ipswich now, of course, and all the jolly positive people bring posts like this back up and go "hahaha northernr looks an idiot again". But they'll regress back to the mean soon enough, as they have done after the three win sequence, because that is what and who they are. |
While you make an informed and impassioned argument, if that was coming from me, Clive, I'd be shat all over by the usual suspects - you make me sound like this board's fairy f*cking godmother! You're a fan (or superfan, if you will), like all of us, and God knows you're entitled to feel in a foul temper, but with pessimism as sunken as this, if there's really no hope, why bother supporting or following this team at all? Or even having a manager of any kind if he doesn't make any difference? MC HAS made a difference, which proves these players were massively under-achieving under both Ainsworth and Critchley. I hate some of what I saw at Millwall, and it's hardly the first time, but (whatever indications to the contrary in some people's minds), I don't hate whole swathes of the fan base as you appear to here almost on principle for trying to keep some kind of hopeful perspective at least some of the time.
I do think lack of confidence is a big issue for the team, and I also agree we have at least three or four who ultimately and repeatedly under-deliver. The culture at the club DOES need overhauling, as I and many others have repeatedly said, even when others were telling the world LH is the best thing since sliced bread, we're lucky to have him, or even now giving out this pathetic revisionism about bringing back Warburton, with whom the rot started and set in over several months.
Of course I'm worried, but relegation is a far from foregone conclusion. Football is a fluctuating game, and many results are fine margins. On another day, we could (and probably should) have built Plymouth, Sheff Wednesday and Millwall. As it was, granted, we took one point from nine when we should have got at least seven. At the same time, and it might not look like it now, it wouldn't surprise me if we somehow nicked a win at Ipswich and picked up three wins in January, especially if we can somehow bring in one or two decent loans. I may well have egg on my face if we're still 5 or 6 points adrift in a month, but it's still December and the Xmas decorations are still up! We CAN get out of this.
Happy f*cking New Year, the lot of you. [Post edited 28 Dec 2023 17:25]
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| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 17:17 - Dec 28 with 1169 views | Northernr |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 17:06 - Dec 28 by stainrods_elbow |
While you make an informed and impassioned argument, if that was coming from me, Clive, I'd be shat all over by the usual suspects - you make me sound like this board's fairy f*cking godmother! You're a fan (or superfan, if you will), like all of us, and God knows you're entitled to feel in a foul temper, but with pessimism as sunken as this, if there's really no hope, why bother supporting or following this team at all? Or even having a manager of any kind if he doesn't make any difference? MC HAS made a difference, which proves these players were massively under-achieving under both Ainsworth and Critchley. I hate some of what I saw at Millwall, and it's hardly the first time, but (whatever indications to the contrary in some people's minds), I don't hate whole swathes of the fan base as you appear to here almost on principle for trying to keep some kind of hopeful perspective at least some of the time.
I do think lack of confidence is a big issue for the team, and I also agree we have at least three or four who ultimately and repeatedly under-deliver. The culture at the club DOES need overhauling, as I and many others have repeatedly said, even when others were telling the world LH is the best thing since sliced bread, we're lucky to have him, or even now giving out this pathetic revisionism about bringing back Warburton, with whom the rot started and set in over several months.
Of course I'm worried, but relegation is a far from foregone conclusion. Football is a fluctuating game, and many results are fine margins. On another day, we could (and probably should) have built Plymouth, Sheff Wednesday and Millwall. As it was, granted, we took one point from nine when we should have got at least seven. At the same time, and it might not look like it now, it wouldn't surprise me if we somehow nicked a win at Ipswich and picked up three wins in January, especially if we can somehow bring in one or two decent loans. I may well have egg on my face if we're still 5 or 6 points adrift in a month, but it's still December and the Xmas decorations are still up! We CAN get out of this.
Happy f*cking New Year, the lot of you. [Post edited 28 Dec 2023 17:25]
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Because it will turn. It will turn eventually, it always does, sport is cyclical.
It may take a long time for it to turn, and I suspect it'll now see us go down at least one division while we're waiting for it to turn, but eventually we will bottom out and it will come back again. It has before here, and everywhere else too. Stockport went from Championship all the way down to Conference North, but eventually bottomed out and now they're coming flying back and will be back in this division fairly shortly. Same with Wrexham and Notts County. My local team Grimsby have done the same, and are now trundling steadily back. Sticking with it through the gloomy times makes those good times all the sweeter.
However, the point it bottoms out and turns, the process of turning the thing around, will take a lot longer if we don't identify who and what is the problem, and more importantly who and what isn't. (Side note: you used to bang on about Lee Hoos all the time, and I would go out to bat for him against you - I wouldn't do that now, I think he's got big questions to answer about the last couple of years). I've seen and heard enough from this manager to think he could be our version of McKenna at Ipswich and several others, bright young modern coaches, who can lead a turn around. Even if I'm wrong, I've also seen enough of QPR to know that nothing bad going on atm is anything to do with him. And I don't want us to waste time and energy over the next three months banging on about his fcking substiutions or post match interviews to the point that we decide he should go as well. It would be disastrous to make a long term appointment like this and then ditch him because, short term, he couldn't make Jimmy Dunne into a footballer.
This post has been edited by an administrator | | | |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 17:33 - Dec 28 with 1108 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 17:17 - Dec 28 by Northernr |
Because it will turn. It will turn eventually, it always does, sport is cyclical.
It may take a long time for it to turn, and I suspect it'll now see us go down at least one division while we're waiting for it to turn, but eventually we will bottom out and it will come back again. It has before here, and everywhere else too. Stockport went from Championship all the way down to Conference North, but eventually bottomed out and now they're coming flying back and will be back in this division fairly shortly. Same with Wrexham and Notts County. My local team Grimsby have done the same, and are now trundling steadily back. Sticking with it through the gloomy times makes those good times all the sweeter.
However, the point it bottoms out and turns, the process of turning the thing around, will take a lot longer if we don't identify who and what is the problem, and more importantly who and what isn't. (Side note: you used to bang on about Lee Hoos all the time, and I would go out to bat for him against you - I wouldn't do that now, I think he's got big questions to answer about the last couple of years). I've seen and heard enough from this manager to think he could be our version of McKenna at Ipswich and several others, bright young modern coaches, who can lead a turn around. Even if I'm wrong, I've also seen enough of QPR to know that nothing bad going on atm is anything to do with him. And I don't want us to waste time and energy over the next three months banging on about his fcking substiutions or post match interviews to the point that we decide he should go as well. It would be disastrous to make a long term appointment like this and then ditch him because, short term, he couldn't make Jimmy Dunne into a footballer.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
All fair enough, Clive, but you don't seem to take my point - we need, god help us, to try to do our bit to help THIS team somehow stay up THIS season, even if they don't deserve us, if only to keep our own spirits up. Following a football team, like life itself, is about living in the present, not a fantasised/deferred future. If we're onside with the manager, and I think almost all of us are, getting behind him means getting behind his upsetting XI as best we can. I am quite worried the fans might start to turn in January, the whole thing goes revoltingly down the plughole, and MC walks (or is pushed out by the clowns in the building).
PS We definitely need to move out Colback, Dykes and Dozzell at a minimum in the window. Bring in a proper centre forward and a no.8, and I'd say we'd have half a chance. [Post edited 28 Dec 2023 17:35]
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| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 17:35 - Dec 28 with 1104 views | Gloucs_R |
If / when we go down...I really hope Marti stays as I suspect there will be a number of offers for him.
I would love to see him manage ranges for the next few years and bringing a type of players who fits his style. |  |
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| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 17:38 - Dec 28 with 1089 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 17:35 - Dec 28 by Gloucs_R |
If / when we go down...I really hope Marti stays as I suspect there will be a number of offers for him.
I would love to see him manage ranges for the next few years and bringing a type of players who fits his style. |
Obviously, if we sink, we'll suddenly have pots of money and rise like a phoenix from the ashes, right? It's as if some people here actually want us to decline out of a conviction about some weird teleology that means we're bound to bounce back. Unfathomable! | |
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| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 18:13 - Dec 28 with 1024 views | Gloucs_R |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 17:38 - Dec 28 by stainrods_elbow |
Obviously, if we sink, we'll suddenly have pots of money and rise like a phoenix from the ashes, right? It's as if some people here actually want us to decline out of a conviction about some weird teleology that means we're bound to bounce back. Unfathomable! |
How did you reach the conclusion that relegation is what I seek after reading my post?
Genuinely, how?? | |
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| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 18:25 - Dec 28 with 994 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 17:33 - Dec 28 by stainrods_elbow |
All fair enough, Clive, but you don't seem to take my point - we need, god help us, to try to do our bit to help THIS team somehow stay up THIS season, even if they don't deserve us, if only to keep our own spirits up. Following a football team, like life itself, is about living in the present, not a fantasised/deferred future. If we're onside with the manager, and I think almost all of us are, getting behind him means getting behind his upsetting XI as best we can. I am quite worried the fans might start to turn in January, the whole thing goes revoltingly down the plughole, and MC walks (or is pushed out by the clowns in the building).
PS We definitely need to move out Colback, Dykes and Dozzell at a minimum in the window. Bring in a proper centre forward and a no.8, and I'd say we'd have half a chance. [Post edited 28 Dec 2023 17:35]
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The fans won't turn on MC as the vast majority realise its the players and owners.
Forget moving Colback on, he's on a 2 year deal, he won't go anywhere. Dykes? Should have let Millwall take him on the summer. Dozzell? who would pay for him? His contract expires in the summer.
We are stuck with what we have. Maybe a couple of loans in. | | | |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 18:49 - Dec 28 with 951 views | Northernr |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 17:33 - Dec 28 by stainrods_elbow |
All fair enough, Clive, but you don't seem to take my point - we need, god help us, to try to do our bit to help THIS team somehow stay up THIS season, even if they don't deserve us, if only to keep our own spirits up. Following a football team, like life itself, is about living in the present, not a fantasised/deferred future. If we're onside with the manager, and I think almost all of us are, getting behind him means getting behind his upsetting XI as best we can. I am quite worried the fans might start to turn in January, the whole thing goes revoltingly down the plughole, and MC walks (or is pushed out by the clowns in the building).
PS We definitely need to move out Colback, Dykes and Dozzell at a minimum in the window. Bring in a proper centre forward and a no.8, and I'd say we'd have half a chance. [Post edited 28 Dec 2023 17:35]
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Well you're missing my point. You're not getting behind "this team this season," or "being onside with the manager," by coming on here every game and bitching about his fcking post match interviews, which are somewhere down around the ten millionth spot in the league table of our problems. Much like whether he should or shouldn't have taken Larkeche off. | | | |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 18:50 - Dec 28 with 950 views | Northernr |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 18:25 - Dec 28 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
The fans won't turn on MC as the vast majority realise its the players and owners.
Forget moving Colback on, he's on a 2 year deal, he won't go anywhere. Dykes? Should have let Millwall take him on the summer. Dozzell? who would pay for him? His contract expires in the summer.
We are stuck with what we have. Maybe a couple of loans in. |
They will turn, and it's already begun. | | | |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 18:56 - Dec 28 with 939 views | Gloucs_R |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 18:50 - Dec 28 by Northernr |
They will turn, and it's already begun. |
Because we have some fukwit fans!!
The sooner they get it into their heads that this is a long term rebuild, the better. Alas, some still think a 75 year old could do any better with this squad and turn us into a promotion chasing sensation. 🙄 | |
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| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 19:04 - Dec 28 with 905 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 18:13 - Dec 28 by Gloucs_R |
How did you reach the conclusion that relegation is what I seek after reading my post?
Genuinely, how?? |
My bad, GloucsR, that was misdirected. However, those others who seem to be almost rubbing their hands together in grim glee at the prospect of our descent know who they are. | |
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| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 19:05 - Dec 28 with 907 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Marti - Wrong Staring XI,Tactics + Subs on 18:50 - Dec 28 by Northernr |
They will turn, and it's already begun. |
I've already read a few such tweets, unfortunately. |  |
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