Forum | That Pen.......THAT RED by kingsburyR

Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread

That Pen.......THAT RED 07:59 - Oct 20 with 7426 views

I saw the penalty and red card incident on TV last night.

Fu(k me that was harsh.

I get Armstrong was doing them for pace but the CB was obstructing at best or shielding the ball for the goalie to collect as I saw it.

If it was the other way round we would have the pitch forks out.

Not complaining though!

Dont know why we bother. .... but we do!

That Pen.......THAT RED on 08:03 - Oct 20 with 5604 views

ozexile

We've had enough bad decisions recently we were due one!!

That Pen.......THAT RED on 08:03 - Oct 20 with 5605 views

Rs_Holy

yep... we don't get many of those in a season for sure.

That Pen.......THAT RED on 08:04 - Oct 20 with 5596 views

TheChef

Yeah seemed very harsh.

But I suppose by the letter of law he was the last man denying a goal scoring opportunity?

Poll:

How old is everyone on here?

That Pen.......THAT RED on 08:05 - Oct 20 with 5568 views

ParkRoyalR

Armstrong didn't have the ball under control, it was maybe 10 yards ahead of him, that was the worst penalty decision and Red Card I can recall in a very long time.

If I'd spent in excess of £100 midweek to follow my team on a work night as two incompetent officials guessed that call I would be livid.

That Pen.......THAT RED on 08:08 - Oct 20 with 5545 views

E17hoop

Remember Swansea? Maybe there is a sense of balance.

	It's always noisiest at the shallow end
Poll:	Who do you want as next Next England manager?

That Pen.......THAT RED on 08:09 - Oct 20 with 5535 views

MelakaRanger

To quote a much maligned man

“ them’s the breaks”

I’m sure we will be hard done by too on more than one occasion this season

If Beale stays, and I think he will, this is going to be a rip roaring season

That Pen.......THAT RED on 08:17 - Oct 20 with 5451 views

Antti_Heinola

I didn't even appeal and had a perfect view of it - seen it back now and I still wouldn't appeal. Whether SA had it under control or not is irrelevant, you can still be fouled - but... he wasn't.
Regardless, we would have smashed them. They were lucky it was still 0-0 at that point.

Bare bones.

That Pen.......THAT RED on 08:21 - Oct 20 with 5416 views

Wilkinswatercarrier

From the upper loft it looked like it was never a penalty and the red card was ridiculous. Everyone around me couldn't believe it.
I dont think Armstrong even had the ball under control, but the defender should never have given the referee a decision to make.
I'll take it though!

That Pen.......THAT RED on 08:26 - Oct 20 with 5363 views

CroydonCaptJack

I am in R Block and got a very good view of what clearly was not a penalty. Awful decision I thought and then compounded by the red..

That Pen.......THAT RED on 08:26 - Oct 20 with 5356 views

stevec

Bonkers decision but… if you’ve got a pacy forward who’s prepared to run at a defence, nice things can happen.

I’d make him MOTM just for that run.

That Pen.......THAT RED on 09:27 - Oct 20 with 5085 views

ozranger

That Pen.......THAT RED on 08:26 - Oct 20 by CroydonCaptJack
I am in R Block and got a very good view of what clearly was not a penalty. Awful decision I thought and then compounded by the red..

I really find the second statement incomprehensible. Nothing against the poster, but the law states that if a player is impeded illegally by the last defender in a goal scoring opportunity while not playing the ball, then the sanction is a red card. Plain and simple.

So, as soon as the penalty was awarded, the decision of a send off was automatic.

Note that double-jeopardy does not exist in this case as Simpson was not attempting to play the ball.

It is quite interesting that James Linnington was refereeing a rather similar incident only recently ( https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/football-news/double-jeopardy-rule-explain where he did apply the double-jeopardy rule correctly. So, full marks to him on that in both cases.

That all said, when I watched it on the stream, it looked like Armstrong was not going to be able to get the ball anyway as he had kicked it too far forward and the keeper was in a better position to receive the ball than Armstrong was to get to it. That was the split-second decision that Linnington had to make.

That Pen.......THAT RED on 09:30 - Oct 20 with 5068 views

W7Ranger

Even Warnock commented on it at HT!!

Thought it looked a pen in real time, didn't for one minute think it would be a red also,

Having seen the replay, I've seen those pens not given. Cardiff should feel hard done by.

But f*ck it!

That Pen.......THAT RED on 09:47 - Oct 20 with 4975 views

CroydonCaptJack

That Pen.......THAT RED on 09:27 - Oct 20 by ozranger

It compounded a bad decision. Not really incomprehensible is it?

That Pen.......THAT RED on 09:47 - Oct 20 with 4975 views

Tonto

penalty - probably, red - very harsh

but yet again poor refereeing. just because it went our way this time, should disguise the low quality of the decisions.

but as has been highlighted a lot recently, referreeing is becoming more and more difficult, so it no surprise people arent coming through.

	Why stop now, just when I'm hating it
Poll:	How was the transfer window for you?

That Pen.......THAT RED on 09:48 - Oct 20 with 4972 views

robith

Once he gave the pen he had to give the red, but I was laughing my arse off.

We'd have minced them either way though

That Pen.......THAT RED on 10:04 - Oct 20 with 4882 views

bosh67

That Pen.......THAT RED on 09:48 - Oct 20 by robith
Once he gave the pen he had to give the red, but I was laughing my arse off. We'd have minced them either way though

Agreed. I thought it was a bit of a soft penalty but the red card was ludicrous.

As you say, that said I think we would have beat them comfortably last night. Cardiff after a bright opening 10 minutes really went into their shell and to be honest with a bit of better finishing and their goalkeeper making some good saves it could have been 6 or 7.

	Never knowingly right.
Poll:	How long before new signings become quivering wrecks of the players they were?

That Pen.......THAT RED on 10:06 - Oct 20 with 4861 views

PinnerPaul

That Pen.......THAT RED on 08:04 - Oct 20 by TheChef
Yeah seemed very harsh. But I suppose by the letter of law he was the last man denying a goal scoring opportunity?

Not if the referee deems it a genuine challenge for the ball.

Can see the pen, but the red card seems harsh to me.

That Pen.......THAT RED on 10:06 - Oct 20 with 4862 views

toboboly

Terrible decision. In the UL we thought the Laird one was more of a pen and that still would have been harsh. When we saw a red had been given we just laughed and shook our heads.

Yet he let a bone cruncher on Laird go without even a foul mid way through the second half.

Sexy Asian dwarves wanted.

That Pen.......THAT RED on 10:08 - Oct 20 with 4845 views

PinnerPaul

That Pen.......THAT RED on 09:27 - Oct 20 by ozranger

They changed the law!

if its in the penalty area and a genuine challenge for the ball, its a yellow.

That Pen.......THAT RED on 10:47 - Oct 20 with 4737 views

daveB

Watching it live I thought it was a penalty, clearly not when you see the replay
The red was laughable

That Pen.......THAT RED on 10:53 - Oct 20 with 4697 views

ozranger

That Pen.......THAT RED on 10:08 - Oct 20 by PinnerPaul
They changed the law! if its in the penalty area and a genuine challenge for the ball, its a yellow.

Which I hope is what I have said here. There was no challenge for the ball and thus double-jeopardy does not exist in last night's decision and hence the red card is correct. If there was a challenge for the ball, as you rightly state, they it is a caution only.

As to Croydon, who I was not singling out but just replying to for the general audience, to say that it should not have been a red but a yellow means that the decision would have had to be a judgement one. However, here it is clearly not, based on the laws. Simpson was not going for the ball and thus the laws state that a red card should be awarded. That is, to say that a yellow was sufficient is saying that all decisions made on the field are at the judgement of the referee. The officials have a set of laws that guide them in their decision making. Some lead to making judgements while others do not allow for such type of decisions and the officials are forced to take a certain action. The send off of Simpson was one that fitted in the latter case.

That Pen.......THAT RED on 11:01 - Oct 20 with 4658 views

PinnerPaul

That Pen.......THAT RED on 10:53 - Oct 20 by ozranger

Not sure you can say he wasn't going for the ball.

Generally most attempts with feet have been given as yellows since the law was changed.

So there IS an element of judgement in that the ref has to decide if it was an attempt for the ball - once he has decided that, then yes, its has to be a red, IF DOGSO, but given proximity of other defenders, the gk and not having ball fully under control, I think there are more than enough reasons for this to be just a yellow.

Red seemed harsh to me live.

That Pen.......THAT RED on 11:10 - Oct 20 with 4578 views

SydneyRs

Never a red, we'd have been fuming if that was given against us.

That Pen.......THAT RED on 11:24 - Oct 20 with 4493 views

ozranger

That Pen.......THAT RED on 11:01 - Oct 20 by PinnerPaul

Agree.
Linnington actually has a number of questions going through his mind at the time:
- was Armstrong behind, next to or in front of Simpson and the other defender?
- did Simpson make contact with Armstrong or, as the Cardiff manager states, Armstrong make contact with Simpson?
- if contact was made by a defender, was it Simpson or the other defender?
- was the person who made contact with Armstrong making a play for the ball or Armstrong (note that the other defender could be making a play at the ball while Simpson is playing Armstrong, which would not alter the decision)?
- was the ball within reach of Armstrong such that he could make a play or was it too close to the keeper and thus Armstrong could not make a play?

If Linnington adjudged that the answers were: Simpson was the person to make contact and did contact Armstrong and not the other way around, that Armstrong was next to or in front of Simpson and that Armstrong would have been in a position to make contact with the ball in at least a 50-50 situation with the keeper, which appears to be the case last night, then to me it appears he made the correct decision.

The elephant here, as you point out, is that the keeper, at the time that contact with Armstrong was made, did not have the ball fully under control - it was still rolling towards him. That would create another question for Linnington as to whether that control existed or not. While there appears some judgement here, one can say that it is binary in that either he has control or not. To have control he would have the ball in his grasp completely, which was clearly not the case when Armstrong went down.

Now, to take this a little further, had Johanssen gone down when he was barged off the ball by a defender, is that the same situation (Stephan actually made contact with the ball as the keeper tried to clear it). Here, the keeper cannot take control as the ball was passed directly to him by a team mate. So, the ball is always in play. I know it is not given when a defender clearly obstructs an opponent from challenging the keeper for the ball, but is this not exactly the same situation as with Armstrong - that is a defender is playing the man to stop that player from making a play at the ball with only the keeper in front of them and the ball heading towards the keeper?

That Pen.......THAT RED on 11:35 - Oct 20 with 4426 views

themodfather

the pen claim a few mins before was a better one, a red/ nah....also i flet dykes was fouled when heading onto the bar, so another pen claim?
we are getting into the box, at pace, today any contact and you go down, likelihood of a pen. blimey liverpool and manutd had 20 yrs of em, let's lap it up.

Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread