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That's highly unlikely under the current crowd restrictions, but not impossible
By the time crowd restrictions are lifted (i.e. next season) it's also unlikely that 'taking the knee' will still be happening - at least on a routine basis
Whilst completely in agreement with the sentiment behind it, i personally feel there's a danger of it becoming too much of routine, thus losing its impact which would be a shame
So why are they still doing it at all? There can't be anyone in the country with an interest in it, who hasn't seen it by now. What logic is there behind any potential 'cease' date? I wonder if the latter will coincide with matches being attended again?
“It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooledâ€
So do you think dismantling capitalism and defunding the police are good ideas? I don’t, and herein lyes my problem with BLM. If they were just human rights/equality activists I’d support them 100%, but they are a deeply political movement, with somethings I totally disagree with.
Roccy, lots of things, movements, books, songs, symbols and flags etc. are appropriated by extremists. That’s what they do. They seek to legitimise. Marx wasn’t a soviet communist just as Darwin wasn’t a national socialist racist. They were brilliant scholars whose works were appropriated. The BLM movement message may have been appropriated but it doesn’t make the original message, which the players are respecting, wrong.
So why are they still doing it at all? There can't be anyone in the country with an interest in it, who hasn't seen it by now. What logic is there behind any potential 'cease' date? I wonder if the latter will coincide with matches being attended again?
It's a fair question, actually
Who would start the conversation that led to it being abandoned on a routine basis? If we were to wait until all Black Lives did Matter, to everyone, that would be the logical point but on that basis it'll continue for a few more decades, at least
Perhaps the answer would lie in some other form of affirmative action, which would supplant it and enable the focus to remain on the actual issue (and not on those determined to move it onto a general anti-capitalist agenda)
Roccy, lots of things, movements, books, songs, symbols and flags etc. are appropriated by extremists. That’s what they do. They seek to legitimise. Marx wasn’t a soviet communist just as Darwin wasn’t a national socialist racist. They were brilliant scholars whose works were appropriated. The BLM movement message may have been appropriated but it doesn’t make the original message, which the players are respecting, wrong.
That is not an answer to my question, which was do you believe the police should be defunded and capitalism dismantled. These aren’t BLM extremists beliefs, it’s a massive part of their political beliefs. If you don’t believe in defunding the police and dismantling capitalism, why do you support an organisation that does?
Interesting points of view...I was given training this week on how to behave towards " BAME colleagues. Myself ( baton down the hatches Knightowl) if I was inclined could find the whole thing offensive but society is what it is. I consider myself very lucky having been brought up in Rochdale which gave myself the joy of integration and the opportunity at an early age. I don't see colour race sexuality etc I just see people, isn't that the way it should be ? Somebody said to me by not seeing somebody as "black" makes ME a racist. I do actually find that wrong as people are people regardless of the badges / branding they now do, to others and to themselves. That I am racist because I don't appreciate their struggle for equality and acceptance. That I should find offensive but I don't . My parents were poor, I took my fair share of bullying at my schools for that. I am of Eastern European origin and have experienced my own issues of discrimination which I laugh at.
My wife got a whole load of verbal abuse from a delivery driver just recently purely because of the surname.
The reality is this very movement is creating division.
It will never be resolved its been inbred since the dawn of time ask the Neanderthal.
That is not an answer to my question, which was do you believe the police should be defunded and capitalism dismantled. These aren’t BLM extremists beliefs, it’s a massive part of their political beliefs. If you don’t believe in defunding the police and dismantling capitalism, why do you support an organisation that does?
Of course I don’t believe that the police should be defunded or capitalism should be dismantled. It’s extraordinary the lengths you will go to detract from the real issue. Let’s just establish a few facts shall we. Nobody on here wants to overthrow capitalism, loot, defund the police or whatever other hysterical nonsense you want to come out with etc. etc
Of course I don’t believe that the police should be defunded or capitalism should be dismantled. It’s extraordinary the lengths you will go to detract from the real issue. Let’s just establish a few facts shall we. Nobody on here wants to overthrow capitalism, loot, defund the police or whatever other hysterical nonsense you want to come out with etc. etc
How is pointing out the political aims of an organisation hysterical nonsense? You’ve now openly stated you don’t believe in some of their political beliefs, but seem to support said organisation. I don’t, because I think it would make me a hypocrite.
Defund the police doesn't mean scrapping the police. It means diverting money from police budgets to things that would lead to less crime in the first place, prevention being better than cure.
'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
Of course I don’t believe that the police should be defunded or capitalism should be dismantled. It’s extraordinary the lengths you will go to detract from the real issue. Let’s just establish a few facts shall we. Nobody on here wants to overthrow capitalism, loot, defund the police or whatever other hysterical nonsense you want to come out with etc. etc
Defund the police doesn't mean scrapping the police. It means diverting money from police budgets to things that would lead to less crime in the first place, prevention being better than cure.
Copied from the link I posted. How we’ll spend the funds!
- Work towards making change at the level of law. - Developing and distributing educational resources. - Developing and delivering healing practices in black communities. - Developing and delivering training, police monitoring and strategies for the abolition of police.
Defund the police doesn't mean scrapping the police. It means diverting money from police budgets to things that would lead to less crime in the first place, prevention being better than cure.
How is pointing out the political aims of an organisation hysterical nonsense? You’ve now openly stated you don’t believe in some of their political beliefs, but seem to support said organisation. I don’t, because I think it would make me a hypocrite.
[Post edited 12 Sep 2020 21:40]
It’s not an ‘organisation’ love. It’s a slogan, that’s all. It has no leader or membership or rules etc. It emerged after the killing of George Floyd and the numerous killing of black people by the police. It merely represents that black people should be treated as equally as white people by all institutions, that’s all. There’s absolutely nothing hypocritical about agreeing with that. Now, as both you and I agree that the police should not be defunded and capitalism shouldn’t be dismantled, do you agree that institutional racism exists? If so, does the original message of black lives matter have any credence?
It’s not an ‘organisation’ love. It’s a slogan, that’s all. It has no leader or membership or rules etc. It emerged after the killing of George Floyd and the numerous killing of black people by the police. It merely represents that black people should be treated as equally as white people by all institutions, that’s all. There’s absolutely nothing hypocritical about agreeing with that. Now, as both you and I agree that the police should not be defunded and capitalism shouldn’t be dismantled, do you agree that institutional racism exists? If so, does the original message of black lives matter have any credence?
Interesting points of view...I was given training this week on how to behave towards " BAME colleagues. Myself ( baton down the hatches Knightowl) if I was inclined could find the whole thing offensive but society is what it is. I consider myself very lucky having been brought up in Rochdale which gave myself the joy of integration and the opportunity at an early age. I don't see colour race sexuality etc I just see people, isn't that the way it should be ? Somebody said to me by not seeing somebody as "black" makes ME a racist. I do actually find that wrong as people are people regardless of the badges / branding they now do, to others and to themselves. That I am racist because I don't appreciate their struggle for equality and acceptance. That I should find offensive but I don't . My parents were poor, I took my fair share of bullying at my schools for that. I am of Eastern European origin and have experienced my own issues of discrimination which I laugh at.
My wife got a whole load of verbal abuse from a delivery driver just recently purely because of the surname.
The reality is this very movement is creating division.
It will never be resolved its been inbred since the dawn of time ask the Neanderthal.
Superb post Knightowl, this whole episode trying to force this ridiculous movement upon fairly decent and understanding folk which we all are as a general rule,is in fact having the opposite effect.
No, it means, he’s black he must be up to no good, guilty, armed or on drugs. Sommat like that. Or, on the flip side of that, he’s here because boxes need ticking. Shit like that.
It’s not an ‘organisation’ love. It’s a slogan, that’s all. It has no leader or membership or rules etc. It emerged after the killing of George Floyd and the numerous killing of black people by the police. It merely represents that black people should be treated as equally as white people by all institutions, that’s all. There’s absolutely nothing hypocritical about agreeing with that. Now, as both you and I agree that the police should not be defunded and capitalism shouldn’t be dismantled, do you agree that institutional racism exists? If so, does the original message of black lives matter have any credence?
I’ve already stated if BLM was just a human rights/ equality movement I’d be behind it 100% Some organisations do seem to have problems with institutionalised racism and agree it requires resolving, but I cannot support an organisation with the political beliefs of BLM.
I’ve already stated if BLM was just a human rights/ equality movement I’d be behind it 100% Some organisations do seem to have problems with institutionalised racism and agree it requires resolving, but I cannot support an organisation with the political beliefs of BLM.
So are we saying that every professional footballer that has taken a knee supports dismantling capitalism and defunding the police?
Or is it much more likely that the vast, vast majority of those showing support for BLM are simply showing support for the sentiments behind the slogan?
I’ve already stated if BLM was just a human rights/ equality movement I’d be behind it 100% Some organisations do seem to have problems with institutionalised racism and agree it requires resolving, but I cannot support an organisation with the political beliefs of BLM.
BLM was used as a slogan after the killing of George Floyd. There may very well have been something of the same ‘name’ prior to that but people weren’t joining that ‘organisation‘ by agreeing with the sentiment of the slogan. Incidentally, I’ve read this and I can’t see where it refers to dismantling capitalism or even defunding the police. In fact, it stresses non-violence.
BLM was used as a slogan after the killing of George Floyd. There may very well have been something of the same ‘name’ prior to that but people weren’t joining that ‘organisation‘ by agreeing with the sentiment of the slogan. Incidentally, I’ve read this and I can’t see where it refers to dismantling capitalism or even defunding the police. In fact, it stresses non-violence.
No it wasn't it started before the murder of George Floyd
'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
So are we saying that every professional footballer that has taken a knee supports dismantling capitalism and defunding the police?
Or is it much more likely that the vast, vast majority of those showing support for BLM are simply showing support for the sentiments behind the slogan?
I doubt most professional footballers are even aware of BLM’s political motives tbh, they are as you say supporting the slogan. Would you vote for a political party who wants to do what BLM wants? If yes, then great, if no why would you show support for something you don’t actually believe in, unless you’re not fully aware of the organisation and it’s beliefs behind the slogan.
BLM was used as a slogan after the killing of George Floyd. There may very well have been something of the same ‘name’ prior to that but people weren’t joining that ‘organisation‘ by agreeing with the sentiment of the slogan. Incidentally, I’ve read this and I can’t see where it refers to dismantling capitalism or even defunding the police. In fact, it stresses non-violence.
Read fully the link I posted to you originally, it’s all in there in every detail. Every detail except what they’d replace the police with, what they’d replace capitalism with, and how doing such things would help black people.
I doubt most professional footballers are even aware of BLM’s political motives tbh, they are as you say supporting the slogan. Would you vote for a political party who wants to do what BLM wants? If yes, then great, if no why would you show support for something you don’t actually believe in, unless you’re not fully aware of the organisation and it’s beliefs behind the slogan.
Perhaps I'm being naive then but I think the majority of people see the recent movement and organisation as different entities, especially since the majority of people aren't even aware of the organisation's existence despite the recent movement.
I'll continue to support BLM where possible because I believe in the slogan and the sentiment and I believe that's how most people interpret it, I don't see that as automatic support for the organisation tbh.
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