| Inheritance Tax 12:28 - Jun 26 with 10710 views | Al_Bundy |
Can someone advise if i have a 25% share on a property would i pay any IT? |  | | |  |
| Inheritance Tax on 13:06 - Jun 26 with 9344 views | sherpajacob |
It depends.... on lots of things;
I am assuming you have been left a 25% share in a property.
IHT is only payable if the value of the total estate is over the IHT threshold which is £325,000. This can be double to £650K if it was originally a couple. Eg Your dad died, left everything to your mum. Then when your mum died she left everything between the 4 kids.
There is an additional allowance called the residence nil rate band if it was their main residence and it was left to their direct descendants (children).
There are numerous little exemptions and allowances, but if the total estate of the person who died is less than £325,000 - Nothing to pay
The executors of the will are the ones responsible for paying any tax due. |  |
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| Inheritance Tax on 13:13 - Jun 26 with 9329 views | jack_lord |
| Inheritance Tax on 13:06 - Jun 26 by sherpajacob |
It depends.... on lots of things;
I am assuming you have been left a 25% share in a property.
IHT is only payable if the value of the total estate is over the IHT threshold which is £325,000. This can be double to £650K if it was originally a couple. Eg Your dad died, left everything to your mum. Then when your mum died she left everything between the 4 kids.
There is an additional allowance called the residence nil rate band if it was their main residence and it was left to their direct descendants (children).
There are numerous little exemptions and allowances, but if the total estate of the person who died is less than £325,000 - Nothing to pay
The executors of the will are the ones responsible for paying any tax due. |
I could never get my head around the doubling of the allowance just because you were a couple.
Is the tax just payable on the amount over 325000/650000 and what rate is it? |  |
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| Inheritance Tax on 13:25 - Jun 26 with 9313 views | sherpajacob |
| Inheritance Tax on 13:13 - Jun 26 by jack_lord |
I could never get my head around the doubling of the allowance just because you were a couple.
Is the tax just payable on the amount over 325000/650000 and what rate is it? |
Its because the allowance belongs to the individual.
Its £325,000 per person. You can leave your allowance to your spouse. So if I die before my wife she gets my allowance £325K plus her own £325k, meaning she/we can leave £650K to our kids before they have to pay IHT. This rule was brought in 2006 by Gordon brown. previously you could do the same, but needed a complicated will and trusts to achieve it.
Tax is only payable on the amount over the threshold at 40%.
So a single person leaving £425,000 creates an IHT bill of £40,0000 (425K - 325K) x 40%.
Even if the estate is over £325k/£650 there may be additional allowance of up to £175k/£350K if it was a main residence, as opposed to a holiday home or rental property. | |
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| Inheritance Tax on 13:37 - Jun 26 with 9299 views | jack_lord |
| Inheritance Tax on 13:25 - Jun 26 by sherpajacob |
Its because the allowance belongs to the individual.
Its £325,000 per person. You can leave your allowance to your spouse. So if I die before my wife she gets my allowance £325K plus her own £325k, meaning she/we can leave £650K to our kids before they have to pay IHT. This rule was brought in 2006 by Gordon brown. previously you could do the same, but needed a complicated will and trusts to achieve it.
Tax is only payable on the amount over the threshold at 40%.
So a single person leaving £425,000 creates an IHT bill of £40,0000 (425K - 325K) x 40%.
Even if the estate is over £325k/£650 there may be additional allowance of up to £175k/£350K if it was a main residence, as opposed to a holiday home or rental property. |
Cheers,
Why would there be an additional allowance if the estate was your main residence, as opposed to second/holiday home? | |
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| Inheritance Tax on 14:22 - Jun 26 with 9244 views | sherpajacob |
| Inheritance Tax on 13:37 - Jun 26 by jack_lord |
Cheers,
Why would there be an additional allowance if the estate was your main residence, as opposed to second/holiday home? |
The main residence allowance is a fairly recent introduction by the tories.
a long time ago, when in opposition, they promised to increase the IHT allowance to £1M. Its been £325/£650K for a very long time.
What they've done is add an extra £175K per person, £350K for a couple, to the allowance where a family home is being passed onto children. This helps children who perhaps still live in the property having to sell it to pay IHT when their parents die. Ultimately its about the Tories and their love of middle England and property ownership.
Why should a holiday home or rental property get any IHT relief? [Post edited 26 Jun 2020 14:23]
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| Inheritance Tax on 14:38 - Jun 26 with 9218 views | Al_Bundy |
| Inheritance Tax on 13:06 - Jun 26 by sherpajacob |
It depends.... on lots of things;
I am assuming you have been left a 25% share in a property.
IHT is only payable if the value of the total estate is over the IHT threshold which is £325,000. This can be double to £650K if it was originally a couple. Eg Your dad died, left everything to your mum. Then when your mum died she left everything between the 4 kids.
There is an additional allowance called the residence nil rate band if it was their main residence and it was left to their direct descendants (children).
There are numerous little exemptions and allowances, but if the total estate of the person who died is less than £325,000 - Nothing to pay
The executors of the will are the ones responsible for paying any tax due. |
So if the overall property estate is worth £500K but gets split 4 ways , are all 4 of us liable to paying IT because the property value or if its a 4 way split and we all sit under a individual tax threshold and pay no tax? | | | |
| Inheritance Tax on 14:59 - Jun 26 with 9194 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Inheritance Tax on 14:38 - Jun 26 by Al_Bundy |
So if the overall property estate is worth £500K but gets split 4 ways , are all 4 of us liable to paying IT because the property value or if its a 4 way split and we all sit under a individual tax threshold and pay no tax? |
The estate pays IHT not the recipient. The recipient gets the net after tax has been paid.
In your example, it depends on who the £500k comes from and what it is. Tax would vary from £nil to £70k depending on the answers to those questions. If there was tax it gets deducted from the £500k and then the four recipients get a quarter each of the net. | | | |
| Inheritance Tax on 15:41 - Jun 26 with 9150 views | Al_Bundy |
| Inheritance Tax on 14:59 - Jun 26 by londonlisa2001 |
The estate pays IHT not the recipient. The recipient gets the net after tax has been paid.
In your example, it depends on who the £500k comes from and what it is. Tax would vary from £nil to £70k depending on the answers to those questions. If there was tax it gets deducted from the £500k and then the four recipients get a quarter each of the net. |
What if the property was left in 2 Wills of equal share? | | | |
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| Inheritance Tax on 17:07 - Jun 26 with 9096 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Inheritance Tax on 15:41 - Jun 26 by Al_Bundy |
What if the property was left in 2 Wills of equal share? |
Sorry, I don’t know what you mean. Could you explain how a property can be left in two wills at the same time. | | | |
| Inheritance Tax on 17:36 - Jun 26 with 9069 views | sherpajacob |
| Inheritance Tax on 15:41 - Jun 26 by Al_Bundy |
What if the property was left in 2 Wills of equal share? |
1) What was the value of the total estate of the person who died? Total value of all their assets, not just the property of which 25% has been left to you.
2) Were they single, divorced or widowed? if widowed did their spouse leave everything to them? | |
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| Inheritance Tax on 17:40 - Jun 26 with 9063 views | sherpajacob |
| Inheritance Tax on 14:38 - Jun 26 by Al_Bundy |
So if the overall property estate is worth £500K but gets split 4 ways , are all 4 of us liable to paying IT because the property value or if its a 4 way split and we all sit under a individual tax threshold and pay no tax? |
The IHT tax threshold of £325K applies to the person who has died. The value of their estate.
its irrelevant whether they've left everything to one person or split it between hundreds.
Anything they have left to charity is exempt from IHT though. | |
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| Inheritance Tax on 19:53 - Jun 26 with 8982 views | Al_Bundy |
| Inheritance Tax on 17:07 - Jun 26 by londonlisa2001 |
Sorry, I don’t know what you mean. Could you explain how a property can be left in two wills at the same time. |
So has it stands ive been left 25% of a property along with someone else making up half the house value.
Person A who passed away left 50% of a property between 2 of us and 50% to person B who can live there until they pass on.
So when Person B passes the house sale will release 25% to me and 25% to someone else. Not sure what Person B has in will but would it be better tax wise if i'm not in Person B will this push me over a tax threshhold? | | | |
| Inheritance Tax on 20:01 - Jun 26 with 8968 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| Inheritance Tax on 19:53 - Jun 26 by Al_Bundy |
So has it stands ive been left 25% of a property along with someone else making up half the house value.
Person A who passed away left 50% of a property between 2 of us and 50% to person B who can live there until they pass on.
So when Person B passes the house sale will release 25% to me and 25% to someone else. Not sure what Person B has in will but would it be better tax wise if i'm not in Person B will this push me over a tax threshhold? |
I'm not an expert but I believe that provided person B dies over 28 days after person A then person B is treated as an individual for inheritance tax and their estate has nothing to do with person A's any more. |  |
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| Inheritance Tax on 20:25 - Jun 26 with 8949 views | ItchySphincter |
| Inheritance Tax on 19:53 - Jun 26 by Al_Bundy |
So has it stands ive been left 25% of a property along with someone else making up half the house value.
Person A who passed away left 50% of a property between 2 of us and 50% to person B who can live there until they pass on.
So when Person B passes the house sale will release 25% to me and 25% to someone else. Not sure what Person B has in will but would it be better tax wise if i'm not in Person B will this push me over a tax threshhold? |
It seems to me that Sherpa and Lisa just explained it well, also seems like a complicated way to divide up an estate but maybe it’s quite normal. Are you asking that if person B has also named you in their will does it mean your inheritance will be rolled in to one? Sounds like you’ve already had one inheritance with the caveat that you can’t cash in until person B pegs it so if you are named by person B would that be a separate inheritance? Either way the other guys have already said the estate pays and it would depend on allowance per deaded person. |  |
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| Inheritance Tax on 20:57 - Jun 26 with 8928 views | Al_Bundy |
| Inheritance Tax on 20:25 - Jun 26 by ItchySphincter |
It seems to me that Sherpa and Lisa just explained it well, also seems like a complicated way to divide up an estate but maybe it’s quite normal. Are you asking that if person B has also named you in their will does it mean your inheritance will be rolled in to one? Sounds like you’ve already had one inheritance with the caveat that you can’t cash in until person B pegs it so if you are named by person B would that be a separate inheritance? Either way the other guys have already said the estate pays and it would depend on allowance per deaded person. |
Think i've got this wrong and Lisa and Sherpa was right as the recipient i wouldn't be paying IHT and this would come out of Person's B estate on death. Quite a learning curve today so thanks all. | | | |
| Inheritance Tax on 21:08 - Jun 26 with 8915 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| Inheritance Tax on 20:25 - Jun 26 by ItchySphincter |
It seems to me that Sherpa and Lisa just explained it well, also seems like a complicated way to divide up an estate but maybe it’s quite normal. Are you asking that if person B has also named you in their will does it mean your inheritance will be rolled in to one? Sounds like you’ve already had one inheritance with the caveat that you can’t cash in until person B pegs it so if you are named by person B would that be a separate inheritance? Either way the other guys have already said the estate pays and it would depend on allowance per deaded person. |
It’s quite common for parents to leave half the house to their children on first death. That half is not then part of the second person’s estate when they die so often there’s no inheritance tax to pay on either death.
Also, if the second parent lives a long time and needs care then only half of the value of the house is taken into account as an asset of that person and the half that was inherited by the children after the first death is untouchable. | |
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| Inheritance Tax on 21:10 - Jun 26 with 8914 views | Al_Bundy |
| Inheritance Tax on 17:36 - Jun 26 by sherpajacob |
1) What was the value of the total estate of the person who died? Total value of all their assets, not just the property of which 25% has been left to you.
2) Were they single, divorced or widowed? if widowed did their spouse leave everything to them? |
They were Tenants in common so i am inheriting 25% of the property of the person who recently passed away. The rest of the estate 50% property and other asssets has been left to the co-tenant so no idea what the estate value person B has inherited | | | |
| Inheritance Tax on 21:16 - Jun 26 with 8901 views | jack_lord |
| Inheritance Tax on 21:10 - Jun 26 by Al_Bundy |
They were Tenants in common so i am inheriting 25% of the property of the person who recently passed away. The rest of the estate 50% property and other asssets has been left to the co-tenant so no idea what the estate value person B has inherited |
are these people your parents/auntie and uncle? | |
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| Inheritance Tax on 11:07 - Jun 27 with 8751 views | sherpajacob |
| Inheritance Tax on 19:53 - Jun 26 by Al_Bundy |
So has it stands ive been left 25% of a property along with someone else making up half the house value.
Person A who passed away left 50% of a property between 2 of us and 50% to person B who can live there until they pass on.
So when Person B passes the house sale will release 25% to me and 25% to someone else. Not sure what Person B has in will but would it be better tax wise if i'm not in Person B will this push me over a tax threshhold? |
It appears that what was in place was one of those wills and trusts I previously mentioned that were common prior to Gordon browns changes in 2006.
previously an IHT allowance could not be passed onto someone else, So wills were written that on the first death of a married couple, half the estate would be left in trust to the children, and the house would be owned as tenants in common.
eg Husband and wife own a house worth £500,000 and no other assets. They have a will as above. Husband dies. He leaves his half of the house worth £250K into a trust for his children. There is no IHT as its below the £325 threshold. His widow continues to live in the house. She now owns half the house and the trust owns the other half with a right built in that allows the widow to live in the house.
The Widow then dies and she leaves her half of the house to her children. As long as the value of her half is below £325 there is no IHT for her children. So no IHT has bene paid at all on a £500K house.
There is no need to do it this way now because of the 2006 changes, but many people still have wills made before this date which they haven't changed, also of course there are still widows alive whose spouses passed away before 2006 when these rules applied.
Also these arrangement can be very useful were a couple have children from previous marriages and want to safeguard their own children's inheritance.
So in summary there are 2 separate events for IHT calculations.
1) When person A died. it looks like no IHT was due then, because of the use of the will/trust above.
2) when person B dies it will depend on the total value of their estate. Which will include 50% of the property value plus everything else they own. If this is over £325K then the executors of the will have to pay 40% on the amount over £325K before they can distribute any monies.
I've tried to keep it "simple" but basically there is only one allowance of £325K to apply when person B dies, but only 50% of the property value has to be taken into account.
As for not being in person B's will because it puts you over the threshold, surely 60% of something is better than 100% of nothing. [Post edited 27 Jun 2020 11:10]
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| Inheritance Tax on 11:25 - Jun 27 with 8730 views | ItchySphincter |
| Inheritance Tax on 21:08 - Jun 26 by Joe_bradshaw |
It’s quite common for parents to leave half the house to their children on first death. That half is not then part of the second person’s estate when they die so often there’s no inheritance tax to pay on either death.
Also, if the second parent lives a long time and needs care then only half of the value of the house is taken into account as an asset of that person and the half that was inherited by the children after the first death is untouchable. |
Makes sense. | |
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| Inheritance Tax on 11:47 - Jun 27 with 8711 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Inheritance Tax on 19:53 - Jun 26 by Al_Bundy |
So has it stands ive been left 25% of a property along with someone else making up half the house value.
Person A who passed away left 50% of a property between 2 of us and 50% to person B who can live there until they pass on.
So when Person B passes the house sale will release 25% to me and 25% to someone else. Not sure what Person B has in will but would it be better tax wise if i'm not in Person B will this push me over a tax threshhold? |
It slightly depends on the exact circumstances.
If the house was left in full to you but with a restriction that the other person had a right to live there until they died, the treatment is different to if it was 50% left to them.
If it was 50% left to them outright (they could have decided whether or not to leave it to you) that forms part of their estate and they have their own allowance (£325k before tax and depending on their relationship to you, there could be an additional allowance for primary residence being left to a direct descendent, kids, grandkids, not nephew).
If they were only entitled to live there but the house HAD to come to you (it was effectively 100% left to you and your co-beneficiaries) it was done by the first estate in which case tax will have been dealt with at that time, possibly via a trust.
In the former case, if the person leaves an estate, it’s the whole estate that will be taxed as necessary, before the net passes down. But you won’t then go back and recalculate any tax in the first death - you’ll just inherit the net and won’t have a personal tax liability. | | | |
| Inheritance Tax on 11:51 - Jun 27 with 8708 views | Al_Bundy |
| Inheritance Tax on 11:07 - Jun 27 by sherpajacob |
It appears that what was in place was one of those wills and trusts I previously mentioned that were common prior to Gordon browns changes in 2006.
previously an IHT allowance could not be passed onto someone else, So wills were written that on the first death of a married couple, half the estate would be left in trust to the children, and the house would be owned as tenants in common.
eg Husband and wife own a house worth £500,000 and no other assets. They have a will as above. Husband dies. He leaves his half of the house worth £250K into a trust for his children. There is no IHT as its below the £325 threshold. His widow continues to live in the house. She now owns half the house and the trust owns the other half with a right built in that allows the widow to live in the house.
The Widow then dies and she leaves her half of the house to her children. As long as the value of her half is below £325 there is no IHT for her children. So no IHT has bene paid at all on a £500K house.
There is no need to do it this way now because of the 2006 changes, but many people still have wills made before this date which they haven't changed, also of course there are still widows alive whose spouses passed away before 2006 when these rules applied.
Also these arrangement can be very useful were a couple have children from previous marriages and want to safeguard their own children's inheritance.
So in summary there are 2 separate events for IHT calculations.
1) When person A died. it looks like no IHT was due then, because of the use of the will/trust above.
2) when person B dies it will depend on the total value of their estate. Which will include 50% of the property value plus everything else they own. If this is over £325K then the executors of the will have to pay 40% on the amount over £325K before they can distribute any monies.
I've tried to keep it "simple" but basically there is only one allowance of £325K to apply when person B dies, but only 50% of the property value has to be taken into account.
As for not being in person B's will because it puts you over the threshold, surely 60% of something is better than 100% of nothing. [Post edited 27 Jun 2020 11:10]
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Thanks for this.. The situation i'm in mirrors your post. | | | |
| Inheritance Tax on 12:25 - Jun 27 with 8695 views | BarrySwan |
| Inheritance Tax on 11:07 - Jun 27 by sherpajacob |
It appears that what was in place was one of those wills and trusts I previously mentioned that were common prior to Gordon browns changes in 2006.
previously an IHT allowance could not be passed onto someone else, So wills were written that on the first death of a married couple, half the estate would be left in trust to the children, and the house would be owned as tenants in common.
eg Husband and wife own a house worth £500,000 and no other assets. They have a will as above. Husband dies. He leaves his half of the house worth £250K into a trust for his children. There is no IHT as its below the £325 threshold. His widow continues to live in the house. She now owns half the house and the trust owns the other half with a right built in that allows the widow to live in the house.
The Widow then dies and she leaves her half of the house to her children. As long as the value of her half is below £325 there is no IHT for her children. So no IHT has bene paid at all on a £500K house.
There is no need to do it this way now because of the 2006 changes, but many people still have wills made before this date which they haven't changed, also of course there are still widows alive whose spouses passed away before 2006 when these rules applied.
Also these arrangement can be very useful were a couple have children from previous marriages and want to safeguard their own children's inheritance.
So in summary there are 2 separate events for IHT calculations.
1) When person A died. it looks like no IHT was due then, because of the use of the will/trust above.
2) when person B dies it will depend on the total value of their estate. Which will include 50% of the property value plus everything else they own. If this is over £325K then the executors of the will have to pay 40% on the amount over £325K before they can distribute any monies.
I've tried to keep it "simple" but basically there is only one allowance of £325K to apply when person B dies, but only 50% of the property value has to be taken into account.
As for not being in person B's will because it puts you over the threshold, surely 60% of something is better than 100% of nothing. [Post edited 27 Jun 2020 11:10]
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Kind of interesting reading this thread.
I'm not in any positions described by the OP and don't really expect to be however and from reading just out of interest wondered about one or two of the scenarios raised.
1) If 50% of the house is left by the first deceased and the house was worth under £650,000 ( 2x £325 ,000 allowances for either partner) then there's no IT to pay if no other value left by the first deceased and then the other half of the value of the property gets bequeathed when the surviving partner passes away, perhaps to the same inheritors perhaps not.
However what happens in a scenario where initially the house is worth under £650,000 when the first person passes away but by the time the second person dies the house accrues value and is worth more than £650,00 thus taking both the halves past the £325,000 each IT limit.
Presumably 40% Tax comes off both halves of the house value at anything over £325,000 of each half of the house value?
I appreciate that this may only be a really common scenario perhaps towards London and the South East presently for your ordinary Joe but will increasingly be involving properties in Wales and elsewhere as time moves on and of course there will be a number of properties this way already over that value
2) Also a very pertinent point mentioned above which is I suppose is a current hot topic was the scenario of care home fees if such a situation arises
As I read the reply above if one half of the estate / house has already been willed then if the second partner has to enter a care home and the relevant fees are taken out of their half of the house value but there is a limit due to the foresight of the already deceased partners already bequeathed assets in the house wouldn't it be prudent for these sort of arrangements to come back into vogue for that reason alone? [Post edited 27 Jun 2020 12:26]
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| Inheritance Tax on 16:09 - Jun 27 with 8610 views | sherpajacob |
| Inheritance Tax on 12:25 - Jun 27 by BarrySwan |
Kind of interesting reading this thread.
I'm not in any positions described by the OP and don't really expect to be however and from reading just out of interest wondered about one or two of the scenarios raised.
1) If 50% of the house is left by the first deceased and the house was worth under £650,000 ( 2x £325 ,000 allowances for either partner) then there's no IT to pay if no other value left by the first deceased and then the other half of the value of the property gets bequeathed when the surviving partner passes away, perhaps to the same inheritors perhaps not.
However what happens in a scenario where initially the house is worth under £650,000 when the first person passes away but by the time the second person dies the house accrues value and is worth more than £650,00 thus taking both the halves past the £325,000 each IT limit.
Presumably 40% Tax comes off both halves of the house value at anything over £325,000 of each half of the house value?
I appreciate that this may only be a really common scenario perhaps towards London and the South East presently for your ordinary Joe but will increasingly be involving properties in Wales and elsewhere as time moves on and of course there will be a number of properties this way already over that value
2) Also a very pertinent point mentioned above which is I suppose is a current hot topic was the scenario of care home fees if such a situation arises
As I read the reply above if one half of the estate / house has already been willed then if the second partner has to enter a care home and the relevant fees are taken out of their half of the house value but there is a limit due to the foresight of the already deceased partners already bequeathed assets in the house wouldn't it be prudent for these sort of arrangements to come back into vogue for that reason alone? [Post edited 27 Jun 2020 12:26]
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1) The increase of the value of the house only affects IHT on the 2nd death. The IHt position for the first death is done and dusted. The first death estate has been settled with no IHT to pay. However capital gains tax could be an issue on the subsequent sale of 1/2 of the house that was put into trust on first death.
2) If home ownership is spit in this way in order to mitigate care homes fees, the local authority can simply ignore it and charge the full wack as if the house was still 100% owned.
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-ca | |
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| Inheritance Tax on 19:12 - Jun 27 with 8571 views | BarrySwan |
| Inheritance Tax on 16:09 - Jun 27 by sherpajacob |
1) The increase of the value of the house only affects IHT on the 2nd death. The IHt position for the first death is done and dusted. The first death estate has been settled with no IHT to pay. However capital gains tax could be an issue on the subsequent sale of 1/2 of the house that was put into trust on first death.
2) If home ownership is spit in this way in order to mitigate care homes fees, the local authority can simply ignore it and charge the full wack as if the house was still 100% owned.
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-ca |
I see
Then in that case would I be right in saying that if half a house is bequeathed with the surviving partner understandably then living in it until their death that the house would have to be valued at the time of the first persons death to establish that no IHT is due on the originally bequeathed first half?
And then even if that value is frozen In time until the sale of the house becomes a reality for the inheritors of both halves that the first half proceeds would more than likely be liable to Capital gains tax which could very much wipe out most or all of the advantage of the estate not paying IHT on the first half at the time of the first partners passing? | | | |
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