| The Hillsborough Saga 16:21 - Nov 28 with 5224 views | SuddenLad |
Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield found 'not guilty' of gross negligence manslaughter.
It has taken 30 years to establish justice, but finally it's over.
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| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| The Hillsborough Saga on 16:33 - Nov 28 with 3698 views | mingthemerciless |
So nearly a hundred spectators are killed at a football match and nobody is responsible for that fact ? |  | | |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 16:42 - Nov 28 with 3676 views | SuddenLad |
Nobody has said that.
The verdict of the jury is that one man is not responsible for the criminal gross negligence manslaughter of 95 people.
The inquest returned a verdict of 'unlawful killing'. [Post edited 28 Nov 2019 17:23]
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| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| The Hillsborough Saga on 16:44 - Nov 28 with 3637 views | D_Alien |
Duckenfield has now stood trial three times
No jury - and three is an almost unprecedented number - has found him guilty of manslaughter. Whatever the rights and wrongs of this case, anyone commenting on here should bear that in mind, and perhaps it's time to move on. Sadly, for the relatives of those who died, that probably won't happen, but i hope it does because there's no further mileage in this whatsoever |  |
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| The Hillsborough Saga on 16:45 - Nov 28 with 3662 views | mingthemerciless |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 16:42 - Nov 28 by SuddenLad |
Nobody has said that.
The verdict of the jury is that one man is not responsible for the criminal gross negligence manslaughter of 95 people.
The inquest returned a verdict of 'unlawful killing'. [Post edited 28 Nov 2019 17:23]
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Is there likely to be anyone else charged in connection with the deaths ? | | | |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 16:49 - Nov 28 with 3647 views | SuddenLad |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 16:45 - Nov 28 by mingthemerciless |
Is there likely to be anyone else charged in connection with the deaths ? |
No idea.
The family spokesperson is now at a Press conference, claiming that it was a 'kangaroo court' and a 'bent system'. Oh, dear. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| The Hillsborough Saga on 17:06 - Nov 28 with 3616 views | Ancoats_Blue |
How had justice been established. 96 people didn’t kill themselves. No one appears to have been accountable for this despite 30 years of campaigning and trials. |  | | |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 17:11 - Nov 28 with 3600 views | 1949er |
Rumours are, Duckenfield was found not guilty because he was a member of a certain society? | |
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| The Hillsborough Saga on 17:20 - Nov 28 with 3570 views | SuddenLad |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 17:11 - Nov 28 by 1949er |
Rumours are, Duckenfield was found not guilty because he was a member of a certain society? |
Surely, that puerile allegation would only apply if all the Jury members were aware and came to a verdict on that basis ?
Really ? | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| The Hillsborough Saga on 17:23 - Nov 28 with 3528 views | D_Alien |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 17:20 - Nov 28 by SuddenLad |
Surely, that puerile allegation would only apply if all the Jury members were aware and came to a verdict on that basis ?
Really ? |
I don't suppose it occurs to those who come up with these things, that perhaps one of the reasons no jury has been able to reach a guilty verdict is the amount of crass conjecture over the years since the tragic event | |
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| The Hillsborough Saga on 17:27 - Nov 28 with 3537 views | SuddenLad |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 17:23 - Nov 28 by D_Alien |
I don't suppose it occurs to those who come up with these things, that perhaps one of the reasons no jury has been able to reach a guilty verdict is the amount of crass conjecture over the years since the tragic event |
And the lack of sufficient evidence to secure a conviction. Twice. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| The Hillsborough Saga on 17:33 - Nov 28 with 3514 views | mingthemerciless |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 17:20 - Nov 28 by SuddenLad |
Surely, that puerile allegation would only apply if all the Jury members were aware and came to a verdict on that basis ?
Really ? |
He's admitted himself that he was a Mason. Just saying. | | | |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 17:51 - Nov 28 with 3473 views | SuddenLad |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 17:33 - Nov 28 by mingthemerciless |
He's admitted himself that he was a Mason. Just saying. |
and the Jurors ??? What about them ? In two trials. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| The Hillsborough Saga on 18:23 - Nov 28 with 3415 views | nordenblue |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 16:49 - Nov 28 by SuddenLad |
No idea.
The family spokesperson is now at a Press conference, claiming that it was a 'kangaroo court' and a 'bent system'. Oh, dear. |
It will be "bent" according to them,they just want to carry on until they get the answer they all want it seems | | | |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 18:25 - Nov 28 with 3410 views | tony_roch975 |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 16:42 - Nov 28 by SuddenLad |
Nobody has said that.
The verdict of the jury is that one man is not responsible for the criminal gross negligence manslaughter of 95 people.
The inquest returned a verdict of 'unlawful killing'. [Post edited 28 Nov 2019 17:23]
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Perhaps if Mr Duckinfield and his superiors had been held to account at the start when he, like The Sun and later Boris Johnson, was blaming drunk Liverpool fans for the disaster, there would have been some guilty verdicts. He admitted at the 2nd Inquest, 25 years after the disaster, that he was unqualified to have the commanding role at such a major public event and his mistake in not closing the tunnel after opening external gates was responsible for the deaths. So the facts do not seem to be in dispute but because of the delay many of those, like his former superiors, who might also be held to account are now dead. | |
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| The Hillsborough Saga on 19:17 - Nov 28 with 3317 views | mingthemerciless |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 17:51 - Nov 28 by SuddenLad |
and the Jurors ??? What about them ? In two trials. |
I think the point was made at a previous trial that it could have his masonic connections that enabled him to be promoted to the job in the first place. It was ultimately his lack of experience in the role that was a significant factor in the tragedy.
I don't suppose his connections did him any harm in the aftermath of the tragedy when the establishment closed ranks around the South Yorkshire Police Force. | | | |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 19:18 - Nov 28 with 3313 views | diver |
It appears that the 1987 semi between Leeds United and Coventry held at Hillsborough nearly ended in disaster yet it was decided only 2 years later to be safe !! football fans are treated like cattle | | | |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 19:42 - Nov 28 with 3265 views | SuddenLad |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 18:25 - Nov 28 by tony_roch975 |
Perhaps if Mr Duckinfield and his superiors had been held to account at the start when he, like The Sun and later Boris Johnson, was blaming drunk Liverpool fans for the disaster, there would have been some guilty verdicts. He admitted at the 2nd Inquest, 25 years after the disaster, that he was unqualified to have the commanding role at such a major public event and his mistake in not closing the tunnel after opening external gates was responsible for the deaths. So the facts do not seem to be in dispute but because of the delay many of those, like his former superiors, who might also be held to account are now dead. |
I doubt any of that would have made much difference.
Whilst Duckenfield admitted at the inquest that his decision led to the deaths, (which it did), the vital question (on which the burden of proof rests) is whether or not it was grossly negligent and whether he could reasonably foresee that his decision to do so, would result in each of the 95 deaths.
Ironically, if the fans had not been 'penned in' (as a result of the Taylor report) there would have been somewhere for the supporters to relieve the crush.
As one of the Hillsborough widows has said today, Duckenfield was used as a 'whipping boy'. There should have been a far closer scrutiny into the role of the FA.
The CPS have now been seen to do their level best to find a sacrificial lamb, but the reality was, there was very little prospect of a conviction for that offence. No individual could ever have been held solely responsible for what happened that day.
I hope they now let the case, along with the 96, rest. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| The Hillsborough Saga on 01:07 - Nov 29 with 3061 views | DiddyDave |
Whoever gave the order to open those gates and not to use the turnstiles is responsible for this tragedy. The whole point of having turnstiles is to let ticket holders in,every click of the turnstile lets the people in charge of monitoring how many fans are in certain areas of each and every stadium in the country. No ticket,no entry,but we all know at big games thousands of people turn up hoping to get one of a scalper or somebody whose mate can`t go to the game,so they have a spare ticket. So everybody just poured in,ticket or not,what a bloody stupid decision,it actually beggars belief. | | | |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 04:48 - Nov 29 with 3032 views | kiwidale |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 19:17 - Nov 28 by mingthemerciless |
I think the point was made at a previous trial that it could have his masonic connections that enabled him to be promoted to the job in the first place. It was ultimately his lack of experience in the role that was a significant factor in the tragedy.
I don't suppose his connections did him any harm in the aftermath of the tragedy when the establishment closed ranks around the South Yorkshire Police Force. |
Freemasons can reveal themselves to other Freemasons in several covert ways a Masonic ring being one of the obvious ones. It is possible but highly unlikely that a jury could be compromised by an imbalance of Freemasons not that Im suggesting this was the case. Whatever the matter it was a fookup that cost life and someone should have been held responsible, my finger points at South Yorkshire police but when necessary the police will always lie to protect themselves. just my opinion so don't have a go at me but feel free to disagree. | |
| This is not the time for bickering.
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| The Hillsborough Saga on 06:52 - Nov 29 with 2978 views | D_Alien |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 04:48 - Nov 29 by kiwidale |
Freemasons can reveal themselves to other Freemasons in several covert ways a Masonic ring being one of the obvious ones. It is possible but highly unlikely that a jury could be compromised by an imbalance of Freemasons not that Im suggesting this was the case. Whatever the matter it was a fookup that cost life and someone should have been held responsible, my finger points at South Yorkshire police but when necessary the police will always lie to protect themselves. just my opinion so don't have a go at me but feel free to disagree. |
Just to be clear, i don't see the outcome of this case as being "let's defend the police" or of the legal system giving them any less culpability than an ordinary citizen might be granted. If anything, the opposite now probably applies, and the whole concept of the jury system rests on trusting that a random cross-section of the public will include both staunch defenders of police and those with a much less establishment type of view. For what its worth, i'm in the latter camp
But those separate juries all finding him not guilty suggests to me that, on balance, it would've been a miscarriage of justice to convict him. Of course that leaves the events of 30 years ago without any closure, but that's life and, unfortunately, death too
I've no doubt some will still offer their opinion that they know better than those separate sets of 12 individuals, who had ALL the evidence set out before them [Post edited 29 Nov 2019 6:54]
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| The Hillsborough Saga on 08:50 - Nov 29 with 2930 views | firgrovedale51 |
He did not give the order to open the gate , the person that give that order is ultimately to blame along with the safety officer , the council and the stadium managers .
Without that gate being opened the rush simply would not have occurred . | | | |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 09:10 - Nov 29 with 2916 views | SuddenLad |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 08:50 - Nov 29 by firgrovedale51 |
He did not give the order to open the gate , the person that give that order is ultimately to blame along with the safety officer , the council and the stadium managers .
Without that gate being opened the rush simply would not have occurred . |
Well, the jury decided otherwise and ultimately, it is their decision that counts. Opinions are one thing, facts and evidence are something else... | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| The Hillsborough Saga on 09:34 - Nov 29 with 2898 views | Ancoats_Blue |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 08:50 - Nov 29 by firgrovedale51 |
He did not give the order to open the gate , the person that give that order is ultimately to blame along with the safety officer , the council and the stadium managers .
Without that gate being opened the rush simply would not have occurred . |
Yes, but he was fined £70 a head for each death so the case is closed now. The families should accept that. Justice is served. | | | |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 14:46 - Nov 29 with 2764 views | firgrovedale51 |
| The Hillsborough Saga on 18:23 - Nov 28 by nordenblue |
It will be "bent" according to them,they just want to carry on until they get the answer they all want it seems |
Which is what ? | | | |
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