| Ashes thread 17:11 - Jul 15 with 108725 views | johnhoop |
Now that the World Cup’s done and dusted we can turn our attention to the next major event.
For me the most interesting questions about team selection are;
1) Do we open with Jason Roy? For me it’s a no brainer. I know all the arguments against- he doesn’t even open for Surrey, he struggles against the moving ball etc- but I feel that he’s in such good form and the alternatives are so mediocre that it would be silly not to. If he does come off he could give us control of the game in the first couple of hours. Him and Rory Burns for me.
2) Now that Jofra Archer has to have a place in the side, who are the other two quick bowlers going to be. If fit I guess Anderson has to play and I would give the third spot to Woakes but this means no place for Stuart Broad and the 90 mph+ Mark Wood.
3) Which spinner to go with - Ali or Rashid? Ali’s batting form seems to have dipped but it’s still not an easy decision to make.
Any thoughts? |  | | |  |
| Ashes thread on 04:34 - Sep 9 with 1844 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Ashes thread on 00:03 - Sep 9 by Pommyhoop |
The above is correct. My neighbour hails from the fluffy white cloud land and loves me but hates all things Australian. After many a session on the stubbies listening to his views I've come to the realization ( I'm half Irish BTW) that it is similar to the Irish and English relationship. Oh, did I mention his main gripe is the Ozzies love to dish it out but cannot take it back... |
I have found the best way to break the ice in social situations is to announce that "Hi, I'm Jim, your worst nightmare: a Pom with a Kiwi passport."
That usually drops the match into the box of fireworks nicely. |  |
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| Ashes thread on 04:56 - Sep 9 with 1839 views | SydneyRs |
| Ashes thread on 22:56 - Sep 8 by ozexile |
I'm expecting lots of good natured abuse today and rightly so. I was on my high horse and still am after our World Cup win. Never had a problem being a POM in Oz.
The Aussies will accept anyone if you can give it out and take it back. |
True, its the media rather than people in general. The media is still obsessed with this 1970s style pom bashing nonsense and need to grow up a bit but its easily ignored. The country has moved on, even since I've lived here, is no longer dominated by white, sport obsessed bogans and is a better place for it. Don't think the media has yet woken up to this. My wife is a born and bred Aussie and she hated that culture when growing up.
You do still regularly hear comments on TV and radio directed at the English that would have everyone screaming about racism if it was about any other nationality. Its predictable, unfunny and boring but they wouldn't dare say the same things about certain other groups. Not in public anyway.
The difference is playing England is everything to them, and not just in cricket, but we just don't have the same feelings in return. Yes they are a big rival in cricket but more because they are usually one of the strongest teams in a sport of few strong teams, as are India. Like most English people, I've never been a big cricket fan and was genuinely taken aback by how much they care about it down here.
The feeling after this is more "well its only cricket". I like England to win at cricket, or any sport, but its certainly far from a passion. Nobody gets relegated, there aren't any real consequences for losing as demonstrated by England going nearly 20 years without an Ashes win and getting another go every 2 years until they eventually won a series in 2005. Nothing like the devastating feeling of losing v Croatia and Germany in the world cup/Euro semi finals that's for sure.
As for supporting your adopted country over your home country, no. Just no. I wouldn't expect Aussies in the UK to do it and neither should any English person living here. | | | |
| Ashes thread on 05:57 - Sep 9 with 1824 views | 18StoneOfHoop |
To me this is just exactly like
That bizarre 1986 occurence
In some other sport or other.
The 4th Test never happened.
Forthwith let it be known:
To spare Aussie blushes
We declared after the perfect Ben 3rd. [Post edited 10 Sep 2019 5:16]
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| 'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.."
Love,Peace and Fook Chelski!
More like 20StoneOfHoop now.
Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner.
Pass the cake and pies please. |
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| Ashes thread on 07:53 - Sep 9 with 1784 views | Pommyhoop |
| Ashes thread on 04:56 - Sep 9 by SydneyRs |
True, its the media rather than people in general. The media is still obsessed with this 1970s style pom bashing nonsense and need to grow up a bit but its easily ignored. The country has moved on, even since I've lived here, is no longer dominated by white, sport obsessed bogans and is a better place for it. Don't think the media has yet woken up to this. My wife is a born and bred Aussie and she hated that culture when growing up.
You do still regularly hear comments on TV and radio directed at the English that would have everyone screaming about racism if it was about any other nationality. Its predictable, unfunny and boring but they wouldn't dare say the same things about certain other groups. Not in public anyway.
The difference is playing England is everything to them, and not just in cricket, but we just don't have the same feelings in return. Yes they are a big rival in cricket but more because they are usually one of the strongest teams in a sport of few strong teams, as are India. Like most English people, I've never been a big cricket fan and was genuinely taken aback by how much they care about it down here.
The feeling after this is more "well its only cricket". I like England to win at cricket, or any sport, but its certainly far from a passion. Nobody gets relegated, there aren't any real consequences for losing as demonstrated by England going nearly 20 years without an Ashes win and getting another go every 2 years until they eventually won a series in 2005. Nothing like the devastating feeling of losing v Croatia and Germany in the world cup/Euro semi finals that's for sure.
As for supporting your adopted country over your home country, no. Just no. I wouldn't expect Aussies in the UK to do it and neither should any English person living here. |
Fair enuff summary
Good post mate.. |  |
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| Ashes thread on 08:11 - Sep 9 with 1776 views | Miss_Terraces |
| Ashes thread on 05:57 - Sep 9 by 18StoneOfHoop |
To me this is just exactly like
That bizarre 1986 occurence
In some other sport or other.
The 4th Test never happened.
Forthwith let it be known:
To spare Aussie blushes
We declared after the perfect Ben 3rd. [Post edited 10 Sep 2019 5:16]
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They still get to keep the ashes. I'm not counting any runs by cheats.
The Pakistani players were banned for between 5 and 10 years for spot fixing. I don't see how, what the Aussies did was any better.
They all woke up in the morning, knowing they were going to cheat. | |
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| Ashes thread on 13:04 - Sep 9 with 1657 views | johnhoop |
Just come in to find out they’ve named an unchanged squad for the Oval. I just find the sheer complacency and hubris of that to be quite staggering. It really has become the old boys club again with absolutely no consequences for repeated poor performance.
It really goes against the grain for me not to want England to win a match and I’ll probably feel different when it starts but right now I feel the best thing for the English test team in the long term would be if they got stuffed out of sight again at the Oval so Root may have to finally face up to the fact that he’s not a captain and whoever replaces him can shake it up a bit. | | | |
| Ashes thread on 13:29 - Sep 9 with 1638 views | CamberleyR |
| Ashes thread on 13:04 - Sep 9 by johnhoop |
Just come in to find out they’ve named an unchanged squad for the Oval. I just find the sheer complacency and hubris of that to be quite staggering. It really has become the old boys club again with absolutely no consequences for repeated poor performance.
It really goes against the grain for me not to want England to win a match and I’ll probably feel different when it starts but right now I feel the best thing for the English test team in the long term would be if they got stuffed out of sight again at the Oval so Root may have to finally face up to the fact that he’s not a captain and whoever replaces him can shake it up a bit. |
Staggering that Roy is keeping his place. Yes he battled for 60 odd balls and nearly two hours to get 30 but it was always only a matter of time before they got him out. Nobody wants to go back to the days of two test failures and you're out but enough is enough. He is just not good enough. Bairstow can also consider himself extremely fortunate.
At the tea break yesterday Nasser Hussain did some split screen comparisons of how Denly is playing their attack with Roy. It was chalk and cheese. Massive gaps between bat and pad when he has been out bowled or leg before, braced front leg meaning his balance is all over the place and hands way in front of him pushing hard at the ball.
I could go on but the point is that if these flaws in his technique are quickly being picked up on telly by the Sky commentators, why aren't the England coaching staff spotting this and if they are what is Graham Thorpe the batting coach doing about it? About time he started earning his money methinks.
Because of the absolutely idiotic scheduling of the county championship though, there has been nobody pressing their case with weight of runs to be picked because nobody's been playing. |  |
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| Ashes thread on 14:53 - Sep 9 with 1574 views | TheChef |
| Ashes thread on 13:29 - Sep 9 by CamberleyR |
Staggering that Roy is keeping his place. Yes he battled for 60 odd balls and nearly two hours to get 30 but it was always only a matter of time before they got him out. Nobody wants to go back to the days of two test failures and you're out but enough is enough. He is just not good enough. Bairstow can also consider himself extremely fortunate.
At the tea break yesterday Nasser Hussain did some split screen comparisons of how Denly is playing their attack with Roy. It was chalk and cheese. Massive gaps between bat and pad when he has been out bowled or leg before, braced front leg meaning his balance is all over the place and hands way in front of him pushing hard at the ball.
I could go on but the point is that if these flaws in his technique are quickly being picked up on telly by the Sky commentators, why aren't the England coaching staff spotting this and if they are what is Graham Thorpe the batting coach doing about it? About time he started earning his money methinks.
Because of the absolutely idiotic scheduling of the county championship though, there has been nobody pressing their case with weight of runs to be picked because nobody's been playing. |
Sky were also suggesting yesterday that Stokes could play as a batsman only and move to 4, with Roy dropping down to 5 (or him or Buttler missing out completely). So you'd need another seamer with Woakes probably coming back in, or Curran if you wanted to give him a go.
Will barely make any difference, and if they prepare the usual flat deck then we won't have any chance of winning. Offer a green top and gamble on our bowlers hitting their straps as a unit. |  |
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| Ashes thread on 15:09 - Sep 9 with 1571 views | CamberleyR |
| Ashes thread on 14:53 - Sep 9 by TheChef |
Sky were also suggesting yesterday that Stokes could play as a batsman only and move to 4, with Roy dropping down to 5 (or him or Buttler missing out completely). So you'd need another seamer with Woakes probably coming back in, or Curran if you wanted to give him a go.
Will barely make any difference, and if they prepare the usual flat deck then we won't have any chance of winning. Offer a green top and gamble on our bowlers hitting their straps as a unit. |
A green top is the way I'd go as well. Prepare another wicket like we have done throughout this series and you can lump on Smith getting another couple of hundreds and kiss goodbye getting a result to level the series. The Ashes are gone but it would be nice to keep the unbeaten home record going.
We need to play to our strengths and at the moment it is bowling rather than batting and a grassy pitch giving lots of movement seems to be the best chance of getting him out right now. It would be a low scoring game as you wouldn't fancy us getting much of a score against their seamers but as you say we need to gamble. | |
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| Ashes thread on 15:12 - Sep 9 with 2411 views | thame_hoops |
why isn't curran being given a go, he was excellent against india |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 16:02 - Sep 9 with 2372 views | TheChef |
| Ashes thread on 15:12 - Sep 9 by thame_hoops |
why isn't curran being given a go, he was excellent against india |
Probably because he's not best mates with the captain. | |
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| Ashes thread on 18:25 - Sep 9 with 2323 views | Rangersw12 |
| Ashes thread on 13:04 - Sep 9 by johnhoop |
Just come in to find out they’ve named an unchanged squad for the Oval. I just find the sheer complacency and hubris of that to be quite staggering. It really has become the old boys club again with absolutely no consequences for repeated poor performance.
It really goes against the grain for me not to want England to win a match and I’ll probably feel different when it starts but right now I feel the best thing for the English test team in the long term would be if they got stuffed out of sight again at the Oval so Root may have to finally face up to the fact that he’s not a captain and whoever replaces him can shake it up a bit. |
Bairstow has averaged the low 20's for over a year yet still gets another go !!
Ed Smith must be up there with Illingworth as worst selector in history | | | |
| Ashes thread on 23:18 - Sep 9 with 2243 views | CamberleyR |
Lineker tweeted about having worked in Manchester the last eight years and not remembering a weekend when it hadn't rained... | |
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| Ashes thread on 00:22 - Sep 10 with 2229 views | SydneyRs |
| Ashes thread on 08:11 - Sep 9 by Miss_Terraces |
They still get to keep the ashes. I'm not counting any runs by cheats.
The Pakistani players were banned for between 5 and 10 years for spot fixing. I don't see how, what the Aussies did was any better.
They all woke up in the morning, knowing they were going to cheat. |
They were given token bans to ensure they would be back in time for the world cup and ashes. There's a complete lack of integrity behind it all. One reason why their celebrations should be a little more humble.
The Pakistan fixing issue is a good comparison. Amir was a young bowler stupid enough to get involved in it, no doubt tempted by the fact Pakistan players were not getting the kind of pay English and Australian players get. He got 5 years as I recall, pretty much half his career.
The Australian players were very well paid and far more experienced, at least int he case of Smith and Warner. Smith was captain of his country and just let it happen. What do they get, what amounted to basically a slap on the wrist. It was premeditated, systemic cheating and you can be sure it wasn't the first time they had done it. You can also be sure other players knew about it and probably coaching and management too. All swept under the carpet because two of the three were their best batsmen and they knew how poor they would be without them.
They knew full well they wouldn't have a hope of winning the series without Smith so made sure the bans would be over in time but long enough to keep the media quiet and make it look like they were genuinely punishing them. Replace each of Smith's scores with say 30 or so that a replacement might average and how different the series might look. He's literally carried their entire batting line up.
Smith is a brilliant player and his numbers speak for themselves, but his presence in this series is highly questionable. Warner should never have played international cricket again as he was clearly behind it. Although with his contribution in this series, the difference is minimal. Possibly the guilt is weighing on his mind. | | | |
| Ashes thread on 09:07 - Sep 10 with 2130 views | BlackCrowe |
All Australian bowlers involved in the sandpaper match v S.Africa are guilty by association. There is no was weasel-face Lyon could've bowled with a ball doctored by sandpaper without knowing it.
It stunk then and it still does today. Australia were simply better than us this series - Smith aside, both batting line-ups are hopeless, and in the absence of Jimmy our bowling attack was inferior. Joffra will be main man one day i hope/expect but to expect him to fill Jimmy's boots so early in his first test series was never gonna happen.
But Warner and Smith should've received much longer bans and everyone whatever nationality thinks the same. Tainted. |  |
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| Ashes thread on 10:00 - Sep 10 with 2109 views | TheChef |
| Ashes thread on 09:07 - Sep 10 by BlackCrowe |
All Australian bowlers involved in the sandpaper match v S.Africa are guilty by association. There is no was weasel-face Lyon could've bowled with a ball doctored by sandpaper without knowing it.
It stunk then and it still does today. Australia were simply better than us this series - Smith aside, both batting line-ups are hopeless, and in the absence of Jimmy our bowling attack was inferior. Joffra will be main man one day i hope/expect but to expect him to fill Jimmy's boots so early in his first test series was never gonna happen.
But Warner and Smith should've received much longer bans and everyone whatever nationality thinks the same. Tainted. |
I think the bans come down to the ICC code of conduct, so match fixing is considered much more serious.
They won't be the first and they won't be the last (and you can be sure every Test team has done some from of ball doctoring at some point) - for sure if they caught again then the book would definitely be thrown at them. | |
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| Ashes thread on 16:01 - Sep 10 with 2047 views | stowmarketrange |
| Ashes thread on 09:07 - Sep 10 by BlackCrowe |
All Australian bowlers involved in the sandpaper match v S.Africa are guilty by association. There is no was weasel-face Lyon could've bowled with a ball doctored by sandpaper without knowing it.
It stunk then and it still does today. Australia were simply better than us this series - Smith aside, both batting line-ups are hopeless, and in the absence of Jimmy our bowling attack was inferior. Joffra will be main man one day i hope/expect but to expect him to fill Jimmy's boots so early in his first test series was never gonna happen.
But Warner and Smith should've received much longer bans and everyone whatever nationality thinks the same. Tainted. |
I’ve said this from the start.There is no way that a bowler who takes great care in the state of the ball couldn’t have known that it hadn’t been tampered with.
Whether they also should’ve received bans too is open to question,but they should’ve faced some sort of action for keeping quiet about it.
But they weren’t the first and they sure won’t be the last to tamper with the ball.
See you at the Oval mate.We’re in the front row of the peter may stand for all 5 days(?) [Post edited 10 Sep 2019 16:02]
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| Ashes thread on 16:08 - Sep 10 with 2040 views | BlackCrowe |
| Ashes thread on 16:01 - Sep 10 by stowmarketrange |
I’ve said this from the start.There is no way that a bowler who takes great care in the state of the ball couldn’t have known that it hadn’t been tampered with.
Whether they also should’ve received bans too is open to question,but they should’ve faced some sort of action for keeping quiet about it.
But they weren’t the first and they sure won’t be the last to tamper with the ball.
See you at the Oval mate.We’re in the front row of the peter may stand for all 5 days(?) [Post edited 10 Sep 2019 16:02]
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Yep let's try and hook up. At the front of blocks 19, 17 and 20 for first 3 days, so just along the stand from you. | |
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| Ashes thread on 13:36 - Sep 11 with 1922 views | flynnbo |
Curran and Woakes replace Roy and Overton. Stokes to play as specialist batsman. Head replaced by Mitchell Marsh for the Aussies. |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 14:25 - Sep 11 with 1885 views | Nov77 |
| Ashes thread on 13:36 - Sep 11 by flynnbo |
Curran and Woakes replace Roy and Overton. Stokes to play as specialist batsman. Head replaced by Mitchell Marsh for the Aussies. |
Curran deserves a go, and will probably score more runs than Roy has averaged in this series. |  |
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| Ashes thread on 14:41 - Sep 11 with 1870 views | CamberleyR |
The tail looks to be a bit long if they've got Woakes/Curran going in at 7/8 | |
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| Ashes thread on 14:45 - Sep 11 with 1865 views | Hayesender |
| Ashes thread on 00:22 - Sep 10 by SydneyRs |
They were given token bans to ensure they would be back in time for the world cup and ashes. There's a complete lack of integrity behind it all. One reason why their celebrations should be a little more humble.
The Pakistan fixing issue is a good comparison. Amir was a young bowler stupid enough to get involved in it, no doubt tempted by the fact Pakistan players were not getting the kind of pay English and Australian players get. He got 5 years as I recall, pretty much half his career.
The Australian players were very well paid and far more experienced, at least int he case of Smith and Warner. Smith was captain of his country and just let it happen. What do they get, what amounted to basically a slap on the wrist. It was premeditated, systemic cheating and you can be sure it wasn't the first time they had done it. You can also be sure other players knew about it and probably coaching and management too. All swept under the carpet because two of the three were their best batsmen and they knew how poor they would be without them.
They knew full well they wouldn't have a hope of winning the series without Smith so made sure the bans would be over in time but long enough to keep the media quiet and make it look like they were genuinely punishing them. Replace each of Smith's scores with say 30 or so that a replacement might average and how different the series might look. He's literally carried their entire batting line up.
Smith is a brilliant player and his numbers speak for themselves, but his presence in this series is highly questionable. Warner should never have played international cricket again as he was clearly behind it. Although with his contribution in this series, the difference is minimal. Possibly the guilt is weighing on his mind. |
I remember reading somewhere that the England bowlers couldn't work out why the aussies were getting so much movement from the ball in the last ashes series down under, while they couldn't get it to do bugger all.
I think we all know now |  |
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| Ashes thread on 11:01 - Sep 12 with 1768 views | Nov77 |
What a bunch of tossers the Aussies are, they’ve won 4 out of 5 this series! | |
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| Ashes thread on 11:07 - Sep 12 with 1763 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Ashes thread on 11:01 - Sep 12 by Nov77 |
What a bunch of tossers the Aussies are, they’ve won 4 out of 5 this series! |
I am always ranting on about this.
I really think the toss can be so important. I think whoever wins the first toss decides in the first test then it should be in turns after that. That way you still benefit in an odd number test series but it is much less reliant on an element of luck than now. |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 11:23 - Sep 12 with 1751 views | TheChef |
| Ashes thread on 11:07 - Sep 12 by CroydonCaptJack |
I am always ranting on about this.
I really think the toss can be so important. I think whoever wins the first toss decides in the first test then it should be in turns after that. That way you still benefit in an odd number test series but it is much less reliant on an element of luck than now. |
Surprised they've opted to bowl though. I thought usually at The Oval you avoided batting last if you could. | |
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