| Clydach murders on 15:25 - Oct 27 with 1790 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 14:56 - Oct 27 by Highjack |
That person was looking for something. Why else would you be on your hands and knees rifling through old videotapes covered in blood after killing four people? The documentary just glossed over this but it seems potentially very important to me. |
I thought the same. [Post edited 27 Oct 2020 16:04]
|  |
|  |
| Clydach murders on 16:10 - Oct 27 with 1775 views | angryjack |
Perhaps it was the po!iceman looking for videos of his wife who WS shagg@ing. Mandy..or even the jealous police woman who found out her girlfriend d been playing g about behind her back and was looking for proof |  | | |
| Clydach murders on 16:31 - Oct 27 with 1767 views | Yyy |
You seem knowledgeable with regards to the case but.....
You seem to use Mansfield as a reason for undisputed guilt due to Mansfields rep. Mansfield only took part for the opening statement for the second trial after that a junior QC from the office was used.Mansfield had prior commitment with regards to a human rights hearing.
And you say your sister new both mandys from school days.
That would be the Yorkshire born Mandy that only moved down hear after meeting her x husband at the age of 23.
I | | | |
| Clydach murders on 16:37 - Oct 27 with 1759 views | chad |
| Clydach murders on 14:14 - Oct 27 by Highjack |
The expert getting paid by the defence said that. The expert getting paid by the prosecution said it was definitely his. Bloody experts ey? |
I don’t think the expert for the prosecution said it was his, i think they said they could not rule out Morris having made the handprint, which is very different.
The expert in the programme seemed to say it definitely could not be his and was adamant the prosecution expert had failed to take into account (I think it was)the orientation of the handprint.
It may have been helpful for the 2 experts to debate this issue, or even a wider group of experts come to a consensus on this, as surely this evidence is absolutely central to the case.
As as per the potential for DNA on the side of the sock (thought to be used as a glove) that was apparently not tested. It seems they overlooked the possibility the sock could have been used inside out.
Surely if Morris is guilty it would be in the best interests of the family to remove any doubt and do away with any further hurtful speculation.
I didn’t think the woman who created that E-fit that was a dead ringer for a Lewis brother (both actually as twins) was discredited as someone mentioned. I understood that the judge directed for it to be ignored because Alison Lewis was seen as a credible witness and she gave her husband an alibi (in bed next to her). Seems a bit irregular given their close relationship and either could have been involved. |  | | |
| Clydach murders on 16:40 - Oct 27 with 1752 views | KeithHaynes |
| Clydach murders on 16:31 - Oct 27 by Yyy |
You seem knowledgeable with regards to the case but.....
You seem to use Mansfield as a reason for undisputed guilt due to Mansfields rep. Mansfield only took part for the opening statement for the second trial after that a junior QC from the office was used.Mansfield had prior commitment with regards to a human rights hearing.
And you say your sister new both mandys from school days.
That would be the Yorkshire born Mandy that only moved down hear after meeting her x husband at the age of 23.
I |
Welcome to the board, excellent first post. |  |
| |
| Clydach murders on 16:56 - Oct 27 with 1735 views | chad |
| Clydach murders on 12:27 - Oct 27 by exhmrc1 |
I dont know what you know about the Wassell's. They are a large group of brothers. I think there are 7 of them in total. Often involved with the police.
There was another incident with Morris I believe involved a woman in a car which I think he went down for a few years before. The fact people refused to testify in the Wassell case indicates what people think outside of this case.
People say there is no motive. If Morris believed his girlfriend was having a gay affair with Mandy or she had been trying to get her to leave him. He certainly resented the 2 girls friendship.
It is known Mandy feared and intensely disliked Morris yet you have some on here who suggest she was having an affair with him something the family and her friends say would never have happened in a million years. |
You speculate here as to the motive of Morris. But given it seemed the affair between Alison and Mandy was general knowledge, does that not actually place that motive at the door of Stephen Lewis?
I thought there were 2 witnesses to Stephen Lewis threatening Mandy and her children, including threatening to kill Mandy if she did not leave his wife alone. He stood to lose his wife and children. Plus of course (and more so then), it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that some men (especially the more macho) may see it as an additional assault on their Male pride, to lose their family to a woman.
Although the affair was said to be common knowledge, Stephen Lewis claimed not to know about it. It seems he dismissed the supposed threat as a joke? But the neighbour who witnessed it said Mandy was cowering from him. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 17:08 - Oct 27 with 1727 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 16:56 - Oct 27 by chad |
You speculate here as to the motive of Morris. But given it seemed the affair between Alison and Mandy was general knowledge, does that not actually place that motive at the door of Stephen Lewis?
I thought there were 2 witnesses to Stephen Lewis threatening Mandy and her children, including threatening to kill Mandy if she did not leave his wife alone. He stood to lose his wife and children. Plus of course (and more so then), it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that some men (especially the more macho) may see it as an additional assault on their Male pride, to lose their family to a woman.
Although the affair was said to be common knowledge, Stephen Lewis claimed not to know about it. It seems he dismissed the supposed threat as a joke? But the neighbour who witnessed it said Mandy was cowering from him. |
i havent heard anything to suggest Mandy was afraid of Lewis but she was well known to be petrified of Morris. None of us know whether Lewis knew about the affair. Often the other partner is the last to know possibly because of trust.
The family and indeed Mandy's friends poor scorn on the idea she was having an affair with Morris.
There is also no history of violence from Lewis whereas there was with Morris including the attack on Wassall with an iron bar similar to what apparently happened in the Dawson household. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 17:28 - Oct 27 with 3406 views | chad |
| Clydach murders on 17:08 - Oct 27 by exhmrc1 |
i havent heard anything to suggest Mandy was afraid of Lewis but she was well known to be petrified of Morris. None of us know whether Lewis knew about the affair. Often the other partner is the last to know possibly because of trust.
The family and indeed Mandy's friends poor scorn on the idea she was having an affair with Morris.
There is also no history of violence from Lewis whereas there was with Morris including the attack on Wassall with an iron bar similar to what apparently happened in the Dawson household. |
whilst it seems Morris is a nasty piece of works who may be better behind bars, that fact alone neither makes him guilty of this exceptionally horrific crime, nor guarantees justice has been done to bring to account (nor remove from society) the massively dangerous and highly controlling perpetrator(s). As pointed out this was a very exceptional crime.
As far as what the family say, as you point out yourself they may be the last to know.
Even though it seems the affair with Alison was widely known about, it is possible Stephen did not know about it. However that leaves the neighbour who witnessed him threatening her and the children and threatening to kill her if she did not leave his wife alone, whilst Mandy was cowering from him. It did not seem like a joke and the neighbour seemed quite certain on this. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Clydach murders on 18:21 - Oct 27 with 3355 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 16:31 - Oct 27 by Yyy |
You seem knowledgeable with regards to the case but.....
You seem to use Mansfield as a reason for undisputed guilt due to Mansfields rep. Mansfield only took part for the opening statement for the second trial after that a junior QC from the office was used.Mansfield had prior commitment with regards to a human rights hearing.
And you say your sister new both mandys from school days.
That would be the Yorkshire born Mandy that only moved down hear after meeting her x husband at the age of 23.
I |
Very interesting post. | |
| |
| Clydach murders on 19:28 - Oct 27 with 3301 views | Andy1300 |
| Clydach murders on 17:08 - Oct 27 by exhmrc1 |
i havent heard anything to suggest Mandy was afraid of Lewis but she was well known to be petrified of Morris. None of us know whether Lewis knew about the affair. Often the other partner is the last to know possibly because of trust.
The family and indeed Mandy's friends poor scorn on the idea she was having an affair with Morris.
There is also no history of violence from Lewis whereas there was with Morris including the attack on Wassall with an iron bar similar to what apparently happened in the Dawson household. |
Just because he was violent, doesn’t make him a murderer.
This thread shows one thing, there is obviously reasonable doubt. |  |
| |
| Clydach murders on 19:40 - Oct 27 with 3292 views | Yyy |
| Clydach murders on 18:21 - Oct 27 by trampie |
Very interesting post. |
All the information is readily available from media that covered both trails.
The problem is nearly every knows someone related to the Dawson/Power family the Morris Family or has a SIster, cousin,friend or aunts in the know.
Quit often small details are lost,but these small details can have massive impact on the original narative.
I.e Mansfield was QC for the second trail ,still received a guilty so adds foundation to the the guilty verdict.When in fact Mansfield did not present the defence or cross examine anyone. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 19:41 - Oct 27 with 3267 views | pikeypaul |
| Clydach murders on 18:21 - Oct 27 by trampie |
Very interesting post. |
Indeed it is. |  |
| |
| Clydach murders on 19:47 - Oct 27 with 3278 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 19:28 - Oct 27 by Andy1300 |
Just because he was violent, doesn’t make him a murderer.
This thread shows one thing, there is obviously reasonable doubt. |
None of us actually know what happened in court we weren't there. As an example did you know that the woman who gave the sighting of Morris near the house and said she had never met him went to the same gym. The jury didnt believe her. You say there is doubt but you weren't there. 2 Juries were and along with others such as the Dawson/Power family. Did you know about the evidence about Wassall before. There is more evidence that neither of us know about just like this.
The girlfriend of the man accused of killing a family of four has said she lied to police about the time he came home on the night of the murders.
Mandy Jewell told Newport Crown Court she lied about David Morris' movements because she was afraid she was a suspect herself.
She had quarrelled with Mandy Power, who was killed along with her daughters and mother, earlier in the week.
Mr Morris, 44, of Craig-cefn-parc, denies murder. The trial continues.
The court heard Ms Jewell had lied to the police at first when questioned about the night of the murders in Clydach, near Swansea, and had said Mr Morris had come home to the flat they shared earlier than she thought he had.
The prosecution said by providing herself with an alibi, she had also provided Mr Morris with one.
Mandy Power and her daughters
Mandy Power's two daughters and her mother died with her
The trial had already heard the couple had been in the pub for most of the day on 26 June 1999 but she had left about 2100 BST after they had argued.
Prosecuting, Patrick Harrington said Ms Jewell must have been worried that Mr Morris was involved in the murders for a number of reasons.
During the day, he had mentioned Mandy Power, a friend of Ms Jewell, saying he did not like her, and also he had been drinking, which made him violent.
However Ms Jewell said she had not been worried as his only real connection to Ms Power was through herself.
Statement
The court heard she did not think the police were suspicious of Mr Morris when they first came to see her.
But giving evidence, Ms Jewell's mother Mavis Lewis said her daughter had told her immediately after the first visit from police she thought they suspected David Morris.
"Why would she lie to me?" she asked.
Mr Harrington also accused Ms Jewell of lying to the police and the jury when she said there was only a small amount of violence between her and Mr Morris.
The court heard from a statement Ms Jewell had made to police before the murders accusing him of attacking her and threatening to kill her, and threatening to put a tyre over her head.
Burned out house in Kelvin Road
Fires were lit at Mandy Power's home in Clydach
Mr Morris also threatened to burn her house down, and she had accused him of burning all her clothes, Mr Harrington said.
Ms Jewell told the court she had been livid with Mr Morris when she made the statements and withdrew the complaint.
She said: "If I thought he had anything to do with the murders I would not lie to protect him."
In work
Ms Jewell was asked about phone conversations she had had with a friend of Mr Morris, Mark Reilly, last weekend.
The prosecution alleged she had been asked about phone calls which had been made from her flat the day before Ms Power died.
The court had heard Mr Morris claim he had slept with Mandy Power the day before the murders, during which time he had left a necklace found at the murder scene at her house.
The prosecution said phone calls had been made from the flat during the time he alleged he was with Mandy Power.
Ms Jewell was asked if Mr Reilly had asked whether she could have come home early from work that day.
She said she told Mr Reilly the same as she told the court on Thursday, that as far as she was aware, she was in work at that time.
The prosecution also asked whether hundreds of calls made by Mr Morris to her in the weeks before he gave evidence were to make sure she got her story right, but she said Mr Morris had phoned regularly since he had been on remand and that had not changed. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 19:56 - Oct 27 with 3247 views | pikeypaul |
not connected ? my arse. | |
| |
| Clydach murders on 20:45 - Oct 27 with 3220 views | theloneranger |
| Clydach murders on 19:40 - Oct 27 by Yyy |
All the information is readily available from media that covered both trails.
The problem is nearly every knows someone related to the Dawson/Power family the Morris Family or has a SIster, cousin,friend or aunts in the know.
Quit often small details are lost,but these small details can have massive impact on the original narative.
I.e Mansfield was QC for the second trail ,still received a guilty so adds foundation to the the guilty verdict.When in fact Mansfield did not present the defence or cross examine anyone. |
Michael Mansfield was the QC for Morris' s appeal against his conviction in the first trial. |  |
| Everyday above ground ... Is a good day! 😎 |
| |
| Clydach murders on 21:12 - Oct 27 with 3203 views | Yyy |
| Clydach murders on 20:45 - Oct 27 by theloneranger |
Michael Mansfield was the QC for Morris' s appeal against his conviction in the first trial. |
Mansfield attended the appeal hearings and had the conviction quashed . he did attend for the first 3 days ofbthe 2nd trail but only to deliver the opening
After the opening Mansfield was NOT the acting QC a junior QC from Mansfields firm took over. Mansfield had conflicting court dates with a Human rights case and Morris trial.He attended he human rights hearing and did not complete for dai morris. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 22:38 - Oct 27 with 3154 views | majorraglan |
| Clydach murders on 14:56 - Oct 27 by Highjack |
That person was looking for something. Why else would you be on your hands and knees rifling through old videotapes covered in blood after killing four people? The documentary just glossed over this but it seems potentially very important to me. |
The chain? | | | |
| Clydach murders on 23:33 - Oct 27 with 3130 views | Highjack |
| Clydach murders on 22:38 - Oct 27 by majorraglan |
The chain? |
Potentially yeah but the insinuation in the documentary was that he was going through the video tapes. |  |
| |
| Clydach murders on 23:50 - Oct 27 with 3123 views | chad |
exhmrc1 you said of the woman who provided the E-fit that was a dead ringer for Stephen Lewis - ‘The jury didnt believe her.’
I thought it was you that said she was discredited. Where did you get that information from? As I posted earlier (reproduced below) it was said in a documentary that the judge directed the E-fit be ignored because Alison gave Stephen an alibi, and was considered a credible witness. That being the case it presumably cannot be asserted that the jury did not believe her if they were directed by the judge not to take that evidence into account.
...
‘I didn’t think the woman who created that E-fit that was a dead ringer for a Lewis brother (both actually as twins) was discredited as someone mentioned. I understood that the judge directed for it to be ignored because Alison Lewis was seen as a credible witness and she gave her husband an alibi (in bed next to her). Seems a bit irregular given their close relationship and either could have been involved’ | | | |
| Clydach murders on 23:53 - Oct 27 with 3122 views | Jack123 |
Just been reading through this for all while, pretty interesting. One question though, the witness who made the efit, and from what I read it was ruled out because she went to the same gym.
I just wondered, was there proof they actually met? Given, I would imagine the efit suspect would be working unsociable hours..? It's just me thinking that's all, though I hope the barristers would be well ahead of that. |  |
| |
| Clydach murders on 23:57 - Oct 27 with 3117 views | Highjack |
| Clydach murders on 22:38 - Oct 27 by majorraglan |
The chain? |
Plus if the chain was ripped off in a struggle with one of the victims as the prosecution claimed it would be in the room of one of the bodies, not downstairs by the video tape. | |
| |
| Clydach murders on 00:16 - Oct 28 with 3102 views | Jack123 |
| Clydach murders on 23:57 - Oct 27 by Highjack |
Plus if the chain was ripped off in a struggle with one of the victims as the prosecution claimed it would be in the room of one of the bodies, not downstairs by the video tape. |
For some reason, I thought the chain was found in the kitchen? | |
| |
| Clydach murders on 01:17 - Oct 28 with 3087 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 23:50 - Oct 27 by chad |
exhmrc1 you said of the woman who provided the E-fit that was a dead ringer for Stephen Lewis - ‘The jury didnt believe her.’
I thought it was you that said she was discredited. Where did you get that information from? As I posted earlier (reproduced below) it was said in a documentary that the judge directed the E-fit be ignored because Alison gave Stephen an alibi, and was considered a credible witness. That being the case it presumably cannot be asserted that the jury did not believe her if they were directed by the judge not to take that evidence into account.
...
‘I didn’t think the woman who created that E-fit that was a dead ringer for a Lewis brother (both actually as twins) was discredited as someone mentioned. I understood that the judge directed for it to be ignored because Alison Lewis was seen as a credible witness and she gave her husband an alibi (in bed next to her). Seems a bit irregular given their close relationship and either could have been involved’ |
Read Mandy's sister's statement. The witness had claimed that she didnt know the Lewis brothers but she went to the same gym.
Morris's campaigners claim the E FIT wasnt made public ?? It was in the South Wales Evening post June 29th 2002 !!! The witness who done the E fit and picked out one of the Police officers, said she had never seen him before and yet she went to the same gym as him !!
[Post edited 28 Oct 2020 1:24]
| | | |
| Clydach murders on 01:38 - Oct 28 with 3079 views | Jack123 |
| Clydach murders on 01:17 - Oct 28 by exhmrc1 |
Read Mandy's sister's statement. The witness had claimed that she didnt know the Lewis brothers but she went to the same gym.
Morris's campaigners claim the E FIT wasnt made public ?? It was in the South Wales Evening post June 29th 2002 !!! The witness who done the E fit and picked out one of the Police officers, said she had never seen him before and yet she went to the same gym as him !!
[Post edited 28 Oct 2020 1:24]
|
Hence my question earlier.? Let's go a little bit further,, What gym was it? What time time do they open and close? Has anyone seen the witness of the photo efit in there with, well at that the same time as the efit witness?? [Post edited 28 Oct 2020 1:48]
| |
| |
| Clydach murders on 08:46 - Oct 28 with 3029 views | Whiterockin |
| Clydach murders on 16:31 - Oct 27 by Yyy |
You seem knowledgeable with regards to the case but.....
You seem to use Mansfield as a reason for undisputed guilt due to Mansfields rep. Mansfield only took part for the opening statement for the second trial after that a junior QC from the office was used.Mansfield had prior commitment with regards to a human rights hearing.
And you say your sister new both mandys from school days.
That would be the Yorkshire born Mandy that only moved down hear after meeting her x husband at the age of 23.
I |
Taxman
You respond to most posts you are referenced in, but not this one why? It has basically poured doubt on your knowledge and questioned your memory and I am giving you the benefit of the doubt there. |  | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.