| Clydach murders on 07:12 - Oct 25 with 3252 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 00:59 - Oct 25 by Jack11 |
In my totally unqualified opinion, events unfolded something like this. Morris got to kelvin road when everyone was home and by which point the girls were in bed, as was Doris. I actually think he left the pub and went to the flat he shared with Mandy Jewel but was given short shrift. He’s then left that property and walked to kelvin road. His intention was to have sex with Mandy who not only spurned his advances but threatened to tell Mandy Jewell too. He flew into a rage and killed Mandy first. |
They reckon the killer killed the granny first because of forensic evidence, they seem to think Mandy was out (and the children ? ) [Post edited 25 Oct 2020 8:35]
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| Clydach murders on 07:55 - Oct 25 with 3232 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 07:12 - Oct 25 by trampie |
They reckon the killer killed the granny first because of forensic evidence, they seem to think Mandy was out (and the children ? ) [Post edited 25 Oct 2020 8:35]
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The likelyhood is that something was said about Mandy in his argument with his girlfriend at the pub. It was known he didnt approve of their friendship and Mandy was absolutely petrified of him. There was another case of him putting someone in intensive care with a bar which didnt get to court as I posted yesterday. You asked who had the strength and the ability to do it. He did and had already proved that. He went there with the intention of killing them. They knew him so if he murdered Mandy he had to kill them all as they would all have known him. The fact he supposedly used the river rather than the road would back that up. Less houses to pass. Very little passing traffic to see him. If he was just going for sex and snapped he would far more likely have used the road. As an aside an old school friend of mine died 2 months ago leaving the New Inn and following that route. Apparently he full in and fractured his skull and died. |  | | |
| Clydach murders on 08:17 - Oct 25 with 3211 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 07:55 - Oct 25 by exhmrc1 |
The likelyhood is that something was said about Mandy in his argument with his girlfriend at the pub. It was known he didnt approve of their friendship and Mandy was absolutely petrified of him. There was another case of him putting someone in intensive care with a bar which didnt get to court as I posted yesterday. You asked who had the strength and the ability to do it. He did and had already proved that. He went there with the intention of killing them. They knew him so if he murdered Mandy he had to kill them all as they would all have known him. The fact he supposedly used the river rather than the road would back that up. Less houses to pass. Very little passing traffic to see him. If he was just going for sex and snapped he would far more likely have used the road. As an aside an old school friend of mine died 2 months ago leaving the New Inn and following that route. Apparently he full in and fractured his skull and died. |
You are guessing all the time, guessing conversations now.
If Mandy was not in a relationship with Morris then him killing her and her family becomes less likely due to little or no motive.
They don't think the killer initially went there to kill them because they did not take a weapon, what was used as a weapon was said to have belonged at the house. | |
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| Clydach murders on 09:00 - Oct 25 with 3185 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 08:17 - Oct 25 by trampie |
You are guessing all the time, guessing conversations now.
If Mandy was not in a relationship with Morris then him killing her and her family becomes less likely due to little or no motive.
They don't think the killer initially went there to kill them because they did not take a weapon, what was used as a weapon was said to have belonged at the house. |
Just like your guessing there wasn't a motive. It isn't guesswork that Mandy was petrified of him. It is pretty much well known and now her sister has stated that. She had told others as well. It is also known he didnt approve of the 2 girls friendships. You keep saying there was no motive. As I said previously you dont know that like you dont know other things you assume. This could well be the motive. The Police have said they believe he used the river route rather than the road. The fact is that he would hardly have had any passing traffic had he gone that way. Far fewer houses to pass and therefore it was far less likely he would be seen. Compare that with the taxi driver story. 2 experienced coppers going along a well lit and used road for half a mile then killing 4 people. Then one doesnt get seen and the other walks home 4 miles over a little used mountain road. This is not back along the route they supposedly walked but continuing in the original direction. Which do you think is the most likely if someone killed 4 people, | | | |
| Clydach murders (n/t) on 09:04 - Oct 25 with 3181 views | ABERSWAN |
Interesting that Mandy Jewell gave him an alibi, because the article states he suddenly had scratches on his face the next day. Has she ever said much about the case? It is so frustrating that a local thug (sure everyone agrees on that) suddenly appears with marks on his face, and a chance that a DNA swab was never taken from his scratches to either find him 100% guilty or not. Mandy Jewell was friends with the murdered family, so wouldn’t she have come forward with her suspicions? | | | |
| Clydach murders (n/t) on 09:31 - Oct 25 with 3164 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders (n/t) on 09:04 - Oct 25 by ABERSWAN |
Interesting that Mandy Jewell gave him an alibi, because the article states he suddenly had scratches on his face the next day. Has she ever said much about the case? It is so frustrating that a local thug (sure everyone agrees on that) suddenly appears with marks on his face, and a chance that a DNA swab was never taken from his scratches to either find him 100% guilty or not. Mandy Jewell was friends with the murdered family, so wouldn’t she have come forward with her suspicions? |
By all accounts she was petrified of him as were many others. Hence why the Wassall case didnt go to court as people refused to give evidence. She actually gave him an alibi. You could suppose say the same about Huntley and Carr. She gave him his alibi and got send down because of it. I think Jewell was prosecuted for perverting the course of justice.
The odd thing is the Wassell's are a group of brothers pretty well known in the community and often in trouble with the law. Why didnt they gang together and take their own retribution. Perhaps he was far more dangerous than we realise. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 09:48 - Oct 25 with 3151 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 09:00 - Oct 25 by exhmrc1 |
Just like your guessing there wasn't a motive. It isn't guesswork that Mandy was petrified of him. It is pretty much well known and now her sister has stated that. She had told others as well. It is also known he didnt approve of the 2 girls friendships. You keep saying there was no motive. As I said previously you dont know that like you dont know other things you assume. This could well be the motive. The Police have said they believe he used the river route rather than the road. The fact is that he would hardly have had any passing traffic had he gone that way. Far fewer houses to pass and therefore it was far less likely he would be seen. Compare that with the taxi driver story. 2 experienced coppers going along a well lit and used road for half a mile then killing 4 people. Then one doesnt get seen and the other walks home 4 miles over a little used mountain road. This is not back along the route they supposedly walked but continuing in the original direction. Which do you think is the most likely if someone killed 4 people, |
What was the motive ? (you have lost me now, as regards what you think the motive was)
Did the prosecution think Mandy was in a relationship with Morris ? | |
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| Clydach murders on 10:01 - Oct 25 with 3136 views | 1462jack |
| Clydach murders on 09:48 - Oct 25 by trampie |
What was the motive ? (you have lost me now, as regards what you think the motive was)
Did the prosecution think Mandy was in a relationship with Morris ? |
So up until last night going through this thread I never had interest in this horrific crime however last night and this morning I started reading what I can find on the internet . To me this looks like a police cover up . that’s all I have and will say |  | | |
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| Clydach murders on 10:15 - Oct 25 with 3117 views | Andy1300 |
| Clydach murders on 10:01 - Oct 25 by 1462jack |
So up until last night going through this thread I never had interest in this horrific crime however last night and this morning I started reading what I can find on the internet . To me this looks like a police cover up . that’s all I have and will say |
And many think the same! |  |
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| Clydach murders on 10:18 - Oct 25 with 3111 views | onehunglow |
and many do not.
Those always suspicious of police will always be biased against whatever they do.
Suspicion/brutality/corruption.
ALL police hated innit | |
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| Clydach murders on 10:21 - Oct 25 with 3102 views | trampie |
No motive, no DNA and no witnesses, the prosecution did well to get a conviction in those circumstances. | |
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| Clydach murders on 10:26 - Oct 25 with 3094 views | Whiterockin |
| Clydach murders on 10:18 - Oct 25 by onehunglow |
and many do not.
Those always suspicious of police will always be biased against whatever they do.
Suspicion/brutality/corruption.
ALL police hated innit |
"ALL police hated innit"
Not in my opinion. I still think that all the available evidence was not presented in court. Without this the juries could not reach an accurate decision. Why this was done, cover up or pressure to get a conviction after a long period of time I don't know. Same as I don't know if he is innocent or not. Just a lot of questions to get answers for. Just because Morris was not a nice person does not mean he is guilty same as if the police withheld evidence does not mean they were covering for one of their own. |  | | |
| Clydach murders (n/t) on 10:29 - Oct 25 with 3085 views | Andy1300 |
| Clydach murders on 10:18 - Oct 25 by onehunglow |
and many do not.
Those always suspicious of police will always be biased against whatever they do.
Suspicion/brutality/corruption.
ALL police hated innit |
Absolutely not!
There is nothing wrong with raising doubts or concerns about such convictions!
Why do you think there has been so much interest in this case by people making these programmes.
So many unanswered questions, especially surrounding the officers and one of their wives in this case. [Post edited 25 Oct 2020 10:31]
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| Clydach murders on 10:47 - Oct 25 with 3055 views | onehunglow |
Not so. I refer you to what angry jack posted yesterday without challenge.
There are always cause celebres .Why? Often because of the perpetrator family and their legal team.
I have no idea as to whether Morris killed or not .Many seem certain ,some equally certain he didnt
How can you be so certain.
The Police have an impossible job to do . | |
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| Clydach murders (n/t) on 11:32 - Oct 25 with 3026 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders (n/t) on 10:29 - Oct 25 by Andy1300 |
Absolutely not!
There is nothing wrong with raising doubts or concerns about such convictions!
Why do you think there has been so much interest in this case by people making these programmes.
So many unanswered questions, especially surrounding the officers and one of their wives in this case. [Post edited 25 Oct 2020 10:31]
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Quite. | |
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| Clydach murders on 11:35 - Oct 25 with 3019 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 10:47 - Oct 25 by onehunglow |
Not so. I refer you to what angry jack posted yesterday without challenge.
There are always cause celebres .Why? Often because of the perpetrator family and their legal team.
I have no idea as to whether Morris killed or not .Many seem certain ,some equally certain he didnt
How can you be so certain.
The Police have an impossible job to do . |
Unfortunately there are loads of people on here who try to make a case about the Police protecting themselves. However the facts show otherwise. The police arrested the 3 officers and put the case to the CPS. Due to the serious nature it was not considered by the CPS locally. They rejected the case put as not being strong enough to be put to a jury. It wasn't the police or local CPS who made that decision it was at the very top level.
As far as lack of evidence is concerned the chain found in the house had paint matching the paint in Morris house. He denied this was his chain and got a cousin to be a similar chain to show that. When put to him by his legal team that the police had evidence this was his chain he changed his story and claimed he had left it there the day before the murder when he had sex with Mandy Power. The phone records show that at the time he claimed to have had sex with her he was in the house making a phone call to his girlfriend. The family say she would never go near him let alone have an affair. She was petrified of him.
The programme reckons that 3 people put the Lewis family in the area. According to a taxi driver the 2 brothers were walking towards the house about 1/2 mile away on what is quite a busy street with loads of houses. If you know the area it is the main road from Clydach Mond to Graig Cefn Parc. The woman concerned who claimed to have seen the brother put her evidence to the first trial. She claimed to have never seen him before except they went to the same gym. His brief decided not to make the same mistake for the 2nd trial and the BBC questions why was she wasnt put forward. Clearly Mansfield thought better of it. The third witness has now come forward 20 years later. He admits being in trouble with the law. He claims to have seen this person at 4am whilst Lewis was walking up the mountain.
Trampie and others claim Morris had no motive. There was also no motive for Alison Lewis who was in a happy relationship with Mandy. In fact, Mandy had told friends she was the happiest she had ever been since being in this relationship. Yet people have tried to suggest Alison Lewis had murdered Mandy.. There was no evidence against her.
Much of the police suspicion revolves around the behaviour of Stuart Lewis on the night of the murder. He was the Inspector in charge and left his post on finding out who had been murdered and never disclosed his whereabouts. By that time the fire brigade were already on the scene and had found the 4 bodies. The Regional Crime Team took over the investigation.
My mother and sister had been speaking to Mandy 2 or 3 days before this happened. Mam was a friend of Doris and my sister had known both Mandy and Mandy Jewell since schooldays. They saw her on the Mond in Clydach.
In the days and weeks following te murder there was an awful lot of misinformation. There were rumours of others involved who hadnt been mentioned here but the police cleared them.
Trampie says that nobody saw Morris. There was a witness who actually gave evidence to the court that she had seen someone of Morris description in the area that night so yet again it is another false statement. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 11:38 - Oct 25 with 3019 views | Landore_Jack |
The BBC didn't mention this:
An off-duty policewoman in the Orange House pub in Swansea's city centre bumped into Morris's cousin, who casually mentioned that Morris had "been there" on the night of the infamous killings. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 11:51 - Oct 25 with 3005 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 11:35 - Oct 25 by exhmrc1 |
Unfortunately there are loads of people on here who try to make a case about the Police protecting themselves. However the facts show otherwise. The police arrested the 3 officers and put the case to the CPS. Due to the serious nature it was not considered by the CPS locally. They rejected the case put as not being strong enough to be put to a jury. It wasn't the police or local CPS who made that decision it was at the very top level.
As far as lack of evidence is concerned the chain found in the house had paint matching the paint in Morris house. He denied this was his chain and got a cousin to be a similar chain to show that. When put to him by his legal team that the police had evidence this was his chain he changed his story and claimed he had left it there the day before the murder when he had sex with Mandy Power. The phone records show that at the time he claimed to have had sex with her he was in the house making a phone call to his girlfriend. The family say she would never go near him let alone have an affair. She was petrified of him.
The programme reckons that 3 people put the Lewis family in the area. According to a taxi driver the 2 brothers were walking towards the house about 1/2 mile away on what is quite a busy street with loads of houses. If you know the area it is the main road from Clydach Mond to Graig Cefn Parc. The woman concerned who claimed to have seen the brother put her evidence to the first trial. She claimed to have never seen him before except they went to the same gym. His brief decided not to make the same mistake for the 2nd trial and the BBC questions why was she wasnt put forward. Clearly Mansfield thought better of it. The third witness has now come forward 20 years later. He admits being in trouble with the law. He claims to have seen this person at 4am whilst Lewis was walking up the mountain.
Trampie and others claim Morris had no motive. There was also no motive for Alison Lewis who was in a happy relationship with Mandy. In fact, Mandy had told friends she was the happiest she had ever been since being in this relationship. Yet people have tried to suggest Alison Lewis had murdered Mandy.. There was no evidence against her.
Much of the police suspicion revolves around the behaviour of Stuart Lewis on the night of the murder. He was the Inspector in charge and left his post on finding out who had been murdered and never disclosed his whereabouts. By that time the fire brigade were already on the scene and had found the 4 bodies. The Regional Crime Team took over the investigation.
My mother and sister had been speaking to Mandy 2 or 3 days before this happened. Mam was a friend of Doris and my sister had known both Mandy and Mandy Jewell since schooldays. They saw her on the Mond in Clydach.
In the days and weeks following te murder there was an awful lot of misinformation. There were rumours of others involved who hadnt been mentioned here but the police cleared them.
Trampie says that nobody saw Morris. There was a witness who actually gave evidence to the court that she had seen someone of Morris description in the area that night so yet again it is another false statement. |
What was Morris motive ?
Was Mandy in a relationship with Morris ?, did the prosecution think Mandy was in a relationship with Morris ?
Were the children out with Mandy on the night of the murders ?
Who saw Morris in the area that night, a few people seen what looke like the other suspects, where was Morris seen, was he bloodstained or carrying a large pole by any chance ? [Post edited 25 Oct 2020 11:59]
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| Clydach murders on 12:03 - Oct 25 with 2987 views | Whiterockin |
| Clydach murders on 11:35 - Oct 25 by exhmrc1 |
Unfortunately there are loads of people on here who try to make a case about the Police protecting themselves. However the facts show otherwise. The police arrested the 3 officers and put the case to the CPS. Due to the serious nature it was not considered by the CPS locally. They rejected the case put as not being strong enough to be put to a jury. It wasn't the police or local CPS who made that decision it was at the very top level.
As far as lack of evidence is concerned the chain found in the house had paint matching the paint in Morris house. He denied this was his chain and got a cousin to be a similar chain to show that. When put to him by his legal team that the police had evidence this was his chain he changed his story and claimed he had left it there the day before the murder when he had sex with Mandy Power. The phone records show that at the time he claimed to have had sex with her he was in the house making a phone call to his girlfriend. The family say she would never go near him let alone have an affair. She was petrified of him.
The programme reckons that 3 people put the Lewis family in the area. According to a taxi driver the 2 brothers were walking towards the house about 1/2 mile away on what is quite a busy street with loads of houses. If you know the area it is the main road from Clydach Mond to Graig Cefn Parc. The woman concerned who claimed to have seen the brother put her evidence to the first trial. She claimed to have never seen him before except they went to the same gym. His brief decided not to make the same mistake for the 2nd trial and the BBC questions why was she wasnt put forward. Clearly Mansfield thought better of it. The third witness has now come forward 20 years later. He admits being in trouble with the law. He claims to have seen this person at 4am whilst Lewis was walking up the mountain.
Trampie and others claim Morris had no motive. There was also no motive for Alison Lewis who was in a happy relationship with Mandy. In fact, Mandy had told friends she was the happiest she had ever been since being in this relationship. Yet people have tried to suggest Alison Lewis had murdered Mandy.. There was no evidence against her.
Much of the police suspicion revolves around the behaviour of Stuart Lewis on the night of the murder. He was the Inspector in charge and left his post on finding out who had been murdered and never disclosed his whereabouts. By that time the fire brigade were already on the scene and had found the 4 bodies. The Regional Crime Team took over the investigation.
My mother and sister had been speaking to Mandy 2 or 3 days before this happened. Mam was a friend of Doris and my sister had known both Mandy and Mandy Jewell since schooldays. They saw her on the Mond in Clydach.
In the days and weeks following te murder there was an awful lot of misinformation. There were rumours of others involved who hadnt been mentioned here but the police cleared them.
Trampie says that nobody saw Morris. There was a witness who actually gave evidence to the court that she had seen someone of Morris description in the area that night so yet again it is another false statement. |
I rarely read your posts anymore, they are so long and boring. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 12:05 - Oct 25 with 2986 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 12:03 - Oct 25 by Whiterockin |
I rarely read your posts anymore, they are so long and boring. |
your choice thats fine. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 12:09 - Oct 25 with 2979 views | Whiterockin |
| Clydach murders on 12:05 - Oct 25 by exhmrc1 |
your choice thats fine. |
Thats better. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 12:11 - Oct 25 with 2975 views | raynor94 |
| Clydach murders on 12:03 - Oct 25 by Whiterockin |
I rarely read your posts anymore, they are so long and boring. |
Said the same many times, he has suffocated this board with his pedantic mantra. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 12:21 - Oct 25 with 2973 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 11:51 - Oct 25 by trampie |
What was Morris motive ?
Was Mandy in a relationship with Morris ?, did the prosecution think Mandy was in a relationship with Morris ?
Were the children out with Mandy on the night of the murders ?
Who saw Morris in the area that night, a few people seen what looke like the other suspects, where was Morris seen, was he bloodstained or carrying a large pole by any chance ? [Post edited 25 Oct 2020 11:59]
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For your first question only he can answer that. I have given you a possible scenario which you reject. There were other possibilities but as I say only he can answer that.
For your second point the family have already said no and the police didnt think so either. Morris didnt bring it up either. He only brought the sex issue up when it became clear they had evidence linking the chain in his house to him and that was just before the first trial. Up until then he had denied it was his chain and the sex claim wasnt made
Yes they were. As I understand it they were at her cousins house who dropped them off. He was a met office policeman who also was the person who had to identify the bodies. Not that any of this matters.
It was a girl who lived locally and she gave evidence. I wasnt there. I dont know whether he was bloodstained and I very much doubt he was carrying a pole considering it was left at the property. The court heard the girls evidence and obviously the jury believed it. The woman in the film who claimed to have seen Lewis was found not to be reliable. Read Mandy's sisters account. One guy has now come forward after 20 years and I find his story unbelievable. The other one claims to have seen 2 brothers 1/2 mile away on a road where traffic passes. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 12:54 - Oct 25 with 2954 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 12:21 - Oct 25 by exhmrc1 |
For your first question only he can answer that. I have given you a possible scenario which you reject. There were other possibilities but as I say only he can answer that.
For your second point the family have already said no and the police didnt think so either. Morris didnt bring it up either. He only brought the sex issue up when it became clear they had evidence linking the chain in his house to him and that was just before the first trial. Up until then he had denied it was his chain and the sex claim wasnt made
Yes they were. As I understand it they were at her cousins house who dropped them off. He was a met office policeman who also was the person who had to identify the bodies. Not that any of this matters.
It was a girl who lived locally and she gave evidence. I wasnt there. I dont know whether he was bloodstained and I very much doubt he was carrying a pole considering it was left at the property. The court heard the girls evidence and obviously the jury believed it. The woman in the film who claimed to have seen Lewis was found not to be reliable. Read Mandy's sisters account. One guy has now come forward after 20 years and I find his story unbelievable. The other one claims to have seen 2 brothers 1/2 mile away on a road where traffic passes. |
No motive, no DNA, no witnesses (you are claiming one witnesses now, show me link so I can see what the context is - location, bloodstained, armed with weapon etc) | |
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| Clydach murders on 12:58 - Oct 25 with 2948 views | Garyjack |
| Clydach murders on 07:09 - Oct 25 by trampie |
They were out weren't they. |
Yes, and that was why it was pointless you asking who was killed first! |  | | |
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