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Thread | Martin's switch to 4-5-1 & why it's not ideal...
at 15:54 6 Sep 2022
On Saturday Martin surprised us all by giving his ludicrous 'system' a rest and experimenting with 4-5-1.
This was a welcome change because his ludicrous system was not working and 4 at the back was the obvious solution to the leaky defence.
However, we do not have the players for 4-5-1, we don't have any genuine wingers!.
Martin needs to tweak things further.
For a while now I have been advocating for 4-3-3.
With a full squad I was imagining something along the lines of;
------------------------- Benda -----------------------------
------------- Cabango --------- Darling ------------------
Naughton -------------------------------------- Manning
---------------------------Allen -----------------------------
----------- Ntcham ------------------- Grimes -----------
----------------------------------------------------------------
------ Obafemi -- -------------------- Whittaker/Joseph
--------------------------- Piroe ------------------------------
...but circumstances change, personnel change and we need to put the best team out we have available.
This is the strongest team we have available (on paper - Olly Cooper keeps his place in my book for the moment, he has earned his spot) now, I reckon;
------------------------- Benda -----------------------------
---------------- Wood --------- Cabango -----------------
Naughton -------------------------------------- Manning
------------------------- Darling ----------------------------
----------- Allen --------------------- Grimes -------------
----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------- Patterson / Ntcham --------------------
----------- Obafemi -------------------- Piroe ------------
The full-backs need to get forward to provide us some width when we are building an attack.
Darling is comfortable on the ball and adds some muscle in midfield. He also has shown that he is a goal threat and adds extra aerial ability at set pieces (we'd then have 4 players on the field capable of competing in the air (Cabango, Wood, Darling & Piroe)...but most importantly it means that when our full-backs attack, Darling can drop into the defensive line when it goes wrong.
Patterson and Ntcham are both capable of threading a through ball or cracking one in. Both are less good at the defensive side of the game. Neither are wide players (haven't got the pace). I'd have them competing for the no. 10 slot, occasionally Ntcham could play in midfield...e.g. - if we want to rest Allen, we bring Congreve or Cooper on and switch Ntcham to CM.
If we need to sub a centre-back Darling could switch back there and Fulton replace him at DM....OR....Naughton to CB and Finn Stevens to RB.
The attacking sub I'd be looking to play most often is Oko-flex and change the shape slightly;
------------------------- Benda -----------------------------
---------------- Wood --------- Cabango -----------------
Naughton -------------------------------------- Manning
------------------------- Darling ----------------------------
----------- Allen --------------------- Grimes -------------
----------------------------------------------------------------
----- Obafemi -------- Piroe ------------ Oko-Flex -----
This would mean that we had pace up against a tired defence at the end of games.
The idea would be that Piroe would lead the line but when the tie was right drop into the hole, if we could find him he is capable of turning it around the corner or turning and threading a pass for the pace down the channels.
If we are building an attack with the full-backs up Obafemi or Oko-flex could drift wide to create a pacy overload and we would then have 2 strikers in the box to aim for.
I'd also consider bringing Ogbeta on at left-back and Stevens on at right-back and get at them down the flanks. Both Manning and Naughton are capable of switching to either CB (although we lose in the air then, so not ideal) or at DM.
The subs at our disposal seamlessly slot into the different roles;
Fisher for Benda
Stevens for Naughton
Latibeaudiere for Wood
Ogbeta for Manning (we need to use Ogbeta)
Fulton for Darling for Cabango
Cundle for Allen or Grimes
Olly Cooper for Patterson or Ntcham
Ntcham for Allen or Grimes
Congreve for Patterson or Ntcham
Oko-Flex for Patterson/Ntcham or Obafemi or Piroe
Cullen for Piroe or Obafemi
Anyone else fancy helping Martin out? Feel free to add your suggestions.  |
| Forum
Reply | So is the Martinball experiment dead?
at 14:10 6 Sep 2022
I'll give you this, it was 4-5-1, not 4-4-2...Cooper did not play as a striker, he played as a CAM although he pressed their defence relentlessly.
From the first whistle (I always check out the starting positions and talk to the boy about how we're set up, it was a change on Saturday) we lined up;
------------------------- Benda -----------------------------
------------ Wood --------------- Cabango ---------------
Naughton -------------------------------------- Manning
----------------- Allen -------- Grimes --------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------
Sorinola ---------- Olly Cooper ----- Patterson ------
----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------- Piroe -------------------------------
Sorinola played as a winger and wasted great opportunities after being put through by the likes of Grimes (not Sorinola's fault, he is a League 1 right-back being asked to play on the wing because Martin has fallen out with Obafemi and has loaned out Joseph, Garrick & Whittaker).
Patterson played as an attacking midfielder, his starting position was on the Left but he was never going outside his man and outpacing him. He tucked inside for most of it, took up left-wing positions on occasion to help provide width for his team mates but cut inside on to his right foot without exception.
The full-backs complimented the 'wingers' though.
Sorinola as a young right wing-back got back and helped Naughton on occasion.
Manning constantly got forward down the left and was prepared to go past Patterson on the overlap. On these occasions Grimes or Allen would drop in and cover the left-back position. One time in particular Allen totally bailed Manning out, winning 2 challenges in a row.
Of course, if Martin had managed the squad and recruitment better, he would have a couple of players with pace available to play as the wingers. Regretfully, he didn't.
Tbis is why I recommend 4-3-3 instead.
We finished the game;
------------------------- Benda -----------------------------
------------ Wood --------------- Cabango ---------------
Naughton -------------------------------------- Manning
------------ Fulton --- Cundle --- Grimes ---------------
----------------------------------------------------------------
Stevens (RB?)---------------------------------- Oko-Flex
------------------------- Piroe -------------------------------
With stevens having replaced Cullen of course. |
| Forum
Reply | So is the Martinball experiment dead?
at 21:04 5 Sep 2022
I like possession football, but if you're playing with a purpose (trying to create) you occasionally lose the ball.
If Man City have 70%+ possession, there is a good chance that they were still playing attacking football...it's just that they are so much stronger than their opposition, relatively, that they continually win the ball back quickly and make every spell of possession result in a shot/cross.
When we had 70%+ possession, given that we are not stronger than the rest of the division, you have to ask 'how are we getting 70%+ possession that regularly?'
...and the answer of course was that it was a combination of the way we set up, the tactics and the way the opposition set up to counter that... which resulted in us passing it around and around in circles in our own half between the defence and the midfield...width wasn't possible, our "wing-backs" were cast adrift in the attacking line and barely ever got a long pass up to them.
The plan was to tire out the opposition and play through the middle into the hole...the oppo just sat in and denied us on both counts.
Saturday was like a confession letter from Martin;
- Benda in goals
- Flat back 4
- a 4-5-1 shape
- Ollie cooper playing in the hole (Ntcham could have done that, Wolf could too, Congreve or Patterson)
- Piroe back up top
- ditching the goal-kick nonsense
- Benda being allowed to just clear it
- The defence being allowed to just clear it when needed
...all that was missing was genuine pace. Pick any 2 from Obafemi, Joseph & Whittaker instead of Sorinola and Patterson (maybe Patterson playing CAM instead of Cooper last season) ...and we would have improved further.
We could stick the 2020s equivalent of Nial Quin or John Fashanu up top and bang the ball forward religiously, aimlessly...and the Martin fans would still somehow make it make sense (to themselves at least) 
Re: Swansea City fans (as opposed to Russell Martin fans)
Some of us saw it wasn't working early on, some of us took a little longer, at this moment the vast majority can see with their own eyes that Martinball is a failure and are just grateful that something has changed (whether he has been ordered to do it or it is one last desperate throw of the dice is irrelevant, to an extent) [Post edited 5 Sep 2022 21:06]
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Reply | Potter v Rodger’s ex Swansea derby
at 22:18 4 Sep 2022
Tosh's team finished higher.
Does your ignorance of that fact make you a 'Plastic'?
Answers on a postcard... |
| Forum
Reply | Martinball is a busted flush
at 22:09 4 Sep 2022
This.
I support Swansea City, not Russell Martin.
We have some confused, deluded, fans at the moment.
Anyone who claims yesterday proves Martinball is the way to go when he;
- Changed the formation
- Changed to 4 at the back
- Dropped his clown of a keeper that he wasted £400k on for the youngster we always had available for free.
- Dropped the ludicrous goal-kick routine (all that was missing from that routine was the buckets of multi-coloured glitter and the big red noses)
- Moved Piroe back to striker
- allowed the players to play more direct passes
- allowed the defenders to just clear it sometimes
- allowed Benda to just clear it sometimes
&
- most importantly, played some players Cooper (who was superb) & Patterson, who found space in-between the lines (Grimes was able to play through balls as he actually had some runners for a change...he cut them open at least twice, still not good enough for some.
...doesn't have a bloody clue what they are talking about. Not a bloody clue.
They will continue to argue that black is white.
From here on in I will stick certain posters opinions on football in the bin
There were still some echoes of Martinball, some bad habits have set in and won't be eradicated overnight, but it was a completely different performance, a much more competitive performance.
Now, imagine where we would be if Martin had accepted his system wasn't working much earlier...imagine how we can improve if we stick at this and Martin kisses and makes-up with some players (Obafemi, Ntcham, Ogbeta) and avoids falling out with anymore...if he gives Congreve another chance...brings Joseph back from loan in January and give him a run on the right...if he actually motivates them!
For me Russell Martin is a very lucky boy to still have a job and if he has any sense at all he will seize this opportunity to make the necessary changes with some permanence. |
| Forum
Reply | So is the Martinball experiment dead?
at 00:40 4 Sep 2022
...and the shape!
When I aw the line up I thought he was going with his usual;
------------------------- Benda -----------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------- Naughton ---------------------------
------- Wood --------------------------- Cabango --------
-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------- Cooper ---- Allen ---- Grimes ----------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Sorinola ------------ Patterson --------------- Manning
-------------------------- Piroe -------------------------------
...but he has changed the team shape to;
------------------------- Benda -----------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------- Wood --------- Cabango -----------------
Naughton -------------------------------------- Manning
-----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------ Allen ---- Grimes ------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Sorinola ------------ Cooper ----------------- Patterson
-------------------------- Piroe ------------------------------- |
| Forum
Reply | The Squad 2022-2023
at 00:45 2 Sep 2022
Best team we can put out this Saturday (IMO)...
--------------------------------- Benda -----------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stevens --------- Naughton ------ Darling -------- Manning
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------- Allen -------------------------------
----------------- Ntcham ------------------- Grimes -------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------- Obafemi ------------------------ Oko-Flex -----------
-------------------------------- Piroe -------------------------------
Subs: Fisher (GK), Cabango (CB), Wood (CB/RB), Sorinola (LB), Fulton (DM), Cundle (CM), Ollie Cooper (CAM), Cameron Congreve (CAM), Patterson (CAM), Cullen (ST). |
| Forum
Reply | The Squad 2022-2023
at 00:34 2 Sep 2022
FINAL SQUAD
Manager
Russell Martin (Boooo!)
Goalkeeper
1) Andrew Fisher
13) Stephen Benda
Right-Back
22) Joel Latibeaudiere
??) Fin Stevens - LOAN - Brentford (18yr old)
Left-Back
3) Ryan Manning
29) Matthew Sorinola - £350k Union SG (ex-MK Dons)
Centre-Back
5) Ben Cabango
26) Kyle Naughton
23) Nathan Wood - £300k (Middlesboro)
6) Harry Darling - £2.3m (Mk Dons)
16) Brandon Cooper
Defensive Midfield
4) Jay Fulton
7) Joe Allen - £Free (Stoke City)
18) Luke Cundle - LOAN - Wolves (20yrs old)
Centre Midfield
8) Matt Grimes
28) Liam Walsh
Attacking Midfield
10) Olivier Ntcham
12) Jamie Patterson
45) Cameron Congreve
31) Oliver Cooper
Right-Wing
??????
Left-Wing
??) Armstrong Oko-Flex - LOAN - West Ham (20 yrs old)
Striker
17) Joel Piroe
9) Michael Obafemi
20) Liam Cullen
Most promising youngsters that haven't had a go yet...
48) Joel Cotterill
25) Lewis Webb
35) Lincoln McFadyen
36) Ben Lloyd
37) Daniel Williams
38) Cameron Evans ? (Did he go to Swindon?)
Offski
13) Steven Benda
2) Ryan Bennett
15) Nathaniel Ogbeta
Gone
Flynn Downes - £10m
Korey Smith - £Free
Ben Hamer - £Free
Yann Dhanda - £Free
Loaned Out
41) Jordan Garrick
14) Kyle Joseph
11) Morgan Whittaker [Post edited 2 Sep 2022 0:34]
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| Forum
Reply | Stoke City v Swansea City Matchday Thread
at 16:54 1 Sep 2022
When Michael Obafemi missed against Rotherham, people claimed it was the chance that should have won us the game, it was off target though. |
| Forum
Reply | Stoke City v Swansea City Matchday Thread
at 01:32 1 Sep 2022
Why don’t you post and criticise the manager when we are playing crap and concede the points in injury time, again?
Oh! Hang on, there’s no need to answer. |
| Forum
Reply | Transfer deadline thread
at 22:07 28 Aug 2022
I used to enjoy eating Octopus and then I saw the documentary; 'My Octopus Teacher' and vowed to never eat one again.
Very intelligent creatures. |
| Forum
Reply | Abuse all over this forum
at 00:36 28 Aug 2022
I reckon if I had behaved this way I might have had my profile deleted again.
Enforcing rules equally seems to be particularly challenging, to some, these days. |
| Forum
Reply | An energised Swansea City excited for the Middlesbrough game
at 10:19 27 Aug 2022
I have attended every Home game of Martin's tenure and can confirm that it has been a very supportive and patient atmosphere...much to my own personal frustration (I had enough of him long ago).
It has become 'toxic' (actually just a smattering of boos at the end of another inept performance) because of Martin.
He needs to own it and his supporters need to own it.
Martin OUT! |
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Reply | This latest “owners fault” narrative
at 10:08 27 Aug 2022
Re: Wolf
He was played out of position for a year by the 'Manager' and slagged off by the fans.
Why would he want to come back?
He has other options. |
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Reply | Stoke sack their manager
at 23:33 26 Aug 2022
Russell Martin, if you're reading...apply for Sunderland.
They are a "proper" big club who fit your ambitions...maybe they'll even buy you some players.
Go on, you know it makes sense. |
| Forum
Reply | Philosophy
at 23:20 26 Aug 2022
Some suggestions...
- "Be the best or die trying".
- "Listen, learn, be humble".
- "Understand your past, shape your future".
- "Work harder than he who would replace you".
- "Express yourself"
- "We can be heroes..." |
| | Kerouac
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Site Scores| Forum Votes: | -110 | | Comment Votes: | 0 | | Prediction League: | 0 | | TOTAL: | -110 |
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