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Reply | Millwall fans
at 12:36 9 Aug 2021
You should try to be a centrist on QPR Twitter!
No, as I say, no problem calling idiots such and the type you describe in your 2nd paragraph are just as big an idiot as those who throw punches. Don't want either at matches.
Apologies everyone for dragging this out again. Just very passionate about the area I grew up in and the good, decent people who have enough shit in their lives without being tarnished because of a minority of idiots.
You can blame Esox's ludicrous solution for this! |
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Reply | Millwall fans
at 12:20 9 Aug 2021
The article you shared said that 15 Millwall fans had been arrested for racism in a season...
I'd feel uncomfortable with such a small amount of people being used to create stereotypes to be honest.
Enjoy the rest of the day mate 👠|
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Reply | Millwall fans
at 12:18 9 Aug 2021
Fair point...
Apologies everyone ðŸ™
Enjoy the rest of the day everyone, COYRs |
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Reply | Millwall fans
at 12:09 9 Aug 2021
Brian, this is an exact copy and paste of what I put in the other thread:
"'I also have a few black colleagues that grew up in New Cross and told me the Den was no go on match day. A very different experience for Black and Asian people many years ago.'
And yet they had loads of black members of their hooligan firm - and ordinary fans, of course, and they were led by Tiny, a black man.... Same as West Ham who also had numerous black fans and a black leader of their hooligan firm
Take a look at the front of the mob in the first photo in this article and you'll see black men leading the charge...
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/feb/15/luton-millwall-1985-fa-cup
Also, although the BBC went on record on saying that the National Front used to frequently sell their scummy rag outside The Den and 'caught' sellers outside a match in 1977 in their infamous 'Panorama' show, the local Police subsequently confirmed that this was the first time they had seen them at the stadium and they were never seen again.
(interesting article here: http://www.millwall-history.org.uk/MillwallvTheRacist.htm)
I'm not saying that members of the Black and Asian communities didn't feel that they couldn't go to Millwall matches, but who created that fear and was it founded in reality?
It also didn't help that high profile players like John Barnes claimed in his autobiography that he was racially abused by Millwall fans when playing for Watford despite the fact that Watford NEVER played Millwall in the time he was playing for the former!
https://www.11v11.com/teams/millwall/tab/opposingTeams/opposition/Watford/
"
I would also like to throw in the fact that The Guardian who, rightfully, praised the Sikh and Turkish men who protected their areas in the 2011 London riots, then said the Millwall fans who came out to defend Eltham only did so because an opportunity to attack black people had presented itself..
"When it's a large group of Millwall supporters, in a pub all day, talking about doing the police's job for them, it creates the impression that they're spoiling for a fight, opportunistically — using the chaos to bust into a racial confrontation that they normally wouldn't be permitted"
If you don't think Millwall fans, and people in the surrounding neighborhoods, don't suffer from prejudice because of some people with an agenda BECAUSE they are almost exclusively white and working class I think you are being incredibly niave... This is why I will always try to bring balance to anything to do with them or Bermondsey because if people let this shit pass by without criticism it brings nothing but trouble to a lot of good people... [Post edited 9 Aug 2021 12:11]
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Reply | Millwall fans
at 11:55 9 Aug 2021
This came up in discussion on the other thread...
Some things to consider:
* Racist Millwall are having the charge led by black fans.
* We rioted at Portman Road in the same season - the nadir of English football violence - wrecking a stand and throwing seats at Police and home supporters from the stand and on the pitch. This isn't brought out to use as a stick to beat us with 36 years later.
* Millwall had over 10,000 present at Kenilworth Road that day, about 300 are on the pitch.
* Significant amounts of Chelsea and Spurs fans were arrested as it was used by a cluster of London firms to get revenge against Luton for stabbing people. |
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Reply | Millwall fans
at 11:49 9 Aug 2021
Firstly, I'm not an apologist for anyone. I grew up among their fans and as I said on another thread, have seen more than enough shit thrown at their fans and wider area of residents simply because of the action of a minority or, if we're being completely honest, because they are the most white, working class fan base in London. There is a problem with widespread association and tarnishing and it has an effect on the local community. It's not right, it's not fair and if this was people tarnishing other communities for the action of a minority it wouldn't be tolerated.
There is similar police presence whenever we play teams with high-risk fans and if you haven't seen similar scenes at those matches then , to be honest, you're either walking around with your eyes closed or you've been protected/lucky.
No-one is defending idiots who cause trouble at football. If you have ever travelled to a match to throw a punch at someone or intimidate then you are are idiot who shouldn't be allowed near a football ground.
However, my problem is that people automatically judge Millwall fans and people from Bermondsey because of the actions of a minority in a way that few or any do for people who support, for example, Birmingham, Cardiff, Chelsea or people who come from the surrounding neighborhoods.
COYRs [Post edited 9 Aug 2021 11:50]
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Reply | Millwall fans
at 11:34 9 Aug 2021
If it was as high as 49.9% they would be getting less than 500 tickets for every away match. Even West Ham give them a couple of thousand on the rare occasions they play at Upton Park (obviously now the London stadium.)
A big problem is that, as I said last week, the idiots are too easily accepted over there and even though only a tiny minority are involved with any violence, too many embrace the reputation that comes with being a Millwall fan and, as a consequence, don't/won't challenge the club to eradicate the problem: if our idiots were causing us to be treated very differently I've no doubt that the club would be put under pressure to resolve it.
But at the end of the day it IS a minority of fans who cause trouble over there and on Saturday most Millwall fans behaved themselves. In the 2 videos shared on this thread hundreds walk pass the Shepherd’s Bush scene without causing trouble and in the Nandos video - which runs for less time, of course - dozens walk by minding their own business.
The idiots outside Nandos number about 6 and those involved at Shepherd’s Bush around 10, if that: in fact those involved at Shepherd’s Bush seem to walk pass a number of QPR fans with no incidents taking place and appear to react to something said by those they attack at Shepherd’s Bush. They're still idiots, as is everyone who fights at football, but let's not rule out the possibility that some of our own home grown idiots provoked them or are recognised 'faces' in the yob scene... Not justification by the way...
I won't comment much more on this thread now, but for the most part on Saturday it was no different to experiencing a large following from Leeds, Birmingham, Cardiff or Chelsea for example. |
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Reply | Millwall fans
at 11:08 9 Aug 2021
"If you think it is a minority you are deluding yourself"
So, judging from your experience on Saturday and from what you have seen in videos, what percentage of their fans were involved with violence on Saturday?
5%? 10%? 25%? 50%? 75%?
Genuinely interested... |
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Reply | Millwall fans
at 10:47 9 Aug 2021
With regards to the message boards, I agree with what BazzaR said on the 'Lovely lot' thread:
"The stuff said on that forum is not much different to what’s said on WATRB and on here occasionally to be honest"
Maybe there's something about being treated/thought of as a person/group because of how a minority act that I don't like.....
I tell you what I would really hate, is to be a regular Carnival attendee and being judged because a minority of idiots turn up and rob/deal/carry weapons when the vast majority are just enjoying the music and food... As a man who is proud of his Irish heritage I definitely hated my Gran being spat at by the NF in Camberwell in 1981 because they associated all Irish people as IRA supporters...
Lucky enough being a fan base with a proud Irish connection and an ethically diverse crowd we are free from anyone judging any community by the actions of a minority and not one of us would propose draconian solutions which affect a majority of good, decent people...
Thank God for that. |
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Reply | Millwall fans
at 10:28 9 Aug 2021
That's kind of you.
Have you thought about expanding into dating?
We could have an app especially for QPR fans... ! |
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Reply | Millwall fans
at 10:23 9 Aug 2021
Brian,
Please feel free to point me in the direction of any posts where someone has defended their violence or racism.
I'll happily join you in calling them a C... |
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Reply | Millwall fans
at 10:04 9 Aug 2021
Yes it is.
He was suggesting solutions to issues caused by a minority of Millwall fans that would affect the majority. I was showing how if someone suggested the same measures for an event with infamous problems with a minority of attendees and astronomical police costs it wouldn't be acceptable to Esox.
Also, if you don't know how he would respond to such suggestions about the Carnival then you haven't been paying attention to him... This isn't speculation. |
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Reply | Annual moan - Blue and White Bar
at 09:54 9 Aug 2021
Absolutely pointless trying to do anything at half time, except having a piss to be honest.
It's about time we were treated as adults and were allowed to drink in view of the pitch. |
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Reply | Millwall fans
at 09:49 9 Aug 2021
As I said last week, I'm a Blairite.
I don't know how Sheffield votes/thinks but I try to get on with people regardless of their politics. In fact, it's more interesting, and healthy, having friends who have different views.
Having seen Esox's input to this site, .org and RFI for a number of years I think it's fairly safe to say that if anyone pointed out the crime statistics for the Carnival and the cost to the taxpayer and suggested that there should be measures in place similar to those he proposed for Millwall fans, he'd be quick off the blocks to cry racism.
If you don't see the hypocrisy in that that's your prerogative but maybe, just maybe, people having one set of rules for one and not another is ok by your standards? [Post edited 9 Aug 2021 9:49]
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Reply | Millwall fans
at 09:23 9 Aug 2021
West Midlands Police are the worst for that.
Will never forget a match I went at St Andrews (non QPR) and at Moor Street they pulled a bloke out of the crowd took him to the side and offered him an option of being arrested and missing the last train back or resolving the matter there and then.
Even though he knew what was coming he opted for the latter so they took him behind the brick building as you approach the station and bashed him up for a minute and then told him to F off... |
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Reply | Millwall fans
at 08:51 9 Aug 2021
The solution, by the way, has to be holding them back for 30 minutes whilst we all leave the area and for them to be escorted to White City - en masse, Esox - and put onto waiting trains. The extra platforms there allow trains to be waiting for their arrival. |
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Reply | Millwall fans
at 08:37 9 Aug 2021
'Hold them back after the carnival for an hour and then slowly release them 1000 at a time with an escort back to the train station even if it takes until 9pm or longer.
Make sure the Notting Hill Carnival Ltd are full responsible for the costs of extra policing'
Strange how a few changes of words can expose the hypocrisy of some who are normally so left wing and anti discrimination....
Just saying. [Post edited 9 Aug 2021 8:38]
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Reply | Still huge queues outside ground
at 08:15 9 Aug 2021
From the club who brought you the Recast shambles is anyone surprised?
At least the club laid the blame fully at the feet of the former though, eh? |
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Reply | Annual moan - Blue and White Bar
at 07:59 9 Aug 2021
With more pubs closing in the surrounding area its a great opportunity for the club to make more revenue through alcohol sales at the ground.
If only the Blue and White bar had been open for more than 25 years and they had ample feedback about what fans love and dislike about it to improve the 'experience'... |
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Reply | Millwall fans
at 07:48 9 Aug 2021
Just been catching up with all the opinions and posts from the weekend
Absolutely animals and sorry your family has had to go through this.
Happy that all seems to have been cleared up now but that will offer scant consolation. |
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