| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... 07:41 - Apr 30 with 4915 views | stuabd |
HR keeps mentioning the need to get the right sort of characters in the squad. Anyone got any ideas of players with that kind of spirit that we could get in?
I know we can't buy Jon Walters, but I think he's the 'sort' you're looking for. Good attitude, works hard and is a leader as well. I know we nearly got him before Stoke came in for him, and he would have been a good signing.
We could also probably do with a couple of big, horrible cnts like Holt just to get through a long hard season. Barton and Holt together in the same side :).
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| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 08:55 - Apr 30 with 3207 views | fakekerby |
I'd make bringing back Gorkks & HH a priority. |  | | |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 09:04 - Apr 30 with 3176 views | loftboy |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 08:55 - Apr 30 by fakekerby |
I'd make bringing back Gorkks & HH a priority. |
Trouble is you won't get a full season out of HH |  |
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| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 09:38 - Apr 30 with 3120 views | JonDoeman |
Scott Parker. |  |
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| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 09:41 - Apr 30 with 3117 views | adhoc_qpr |
They don't necessarily need to be salt of the earth, heart of sleeve types - they just need to be committed, professional and hardworking.
Those concepts are so alien to over half our current squad it's untrue though...
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| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 09:41 - Apr 30 with 3119 views | fakekerby |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 09:04 - Apr 30 by loftboy |
Trouble is you won't get a full season out of HH |
You will in the dressing room, which is kind of the point.
We need true pros around the place, who can also put a good shift in when picked.
For me, it's a must we have some good experienced players on board, with some pure talent like Adel, then some up and coming players from Championship-League Two who will appreciate playing for QPR and not see us as a downward step. | | | |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 09:42 - Apr 30 with 3110 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 09:04 - Apr 30 by loftboy |
Trouble is you won't get a full season out of HH |
One of the other teams I follow is the Boston Red Sox, and there are lessons to be learned from their last two seasons. The parallels are scary.
From 2003-2008 they were a big-market team who nonetheless valued scouting and player development over free agent signings. In that time they won two World (I know, I know!) Series. Then it started to go awry.
The wage bill crept up, free agents were signed on long-term deals, mistakes were made in character scouting, injury-prone players were signed in hope and by 2011 their wage bill was astronomical, they were committed to long-term deals on too many of their players, injuries were mounting and the clubhouse had real character problems. Effort was sporadic.
A brilliant 2011 season crumbled in a historic collapse among accusations of clubbing and ill-discipline. The manager departed. 2012 was their worst season in a generation and they finished bottom of their division. Another manager departed. Then came the revolution.
During 2012, three of the worst characters and highest earners were traded for young, cheap talent. At season's end, more followed. Others were released upon the expiry of their contract. New players were signed, all of them solid if unspectacular, but all of them armed with a reputation for hard work and excellent temperaments. It's early days, but they have the best record in 2013 baseball right now.
It's everything I'd love Rangers to do, and a lot of it is possible. The challenges:-
1) Rangers have very few contracts expiring
2) Rangers must be prepared to take financial losses for gains in clubhouse culture
3) Rangers have no scouting system
4) Rangers have no 'front office', a baseball term for not so much a Director of Football as a Department of Football that handles contracts,player development and transfers.
5) That's it. The rest is possible.
I have no doubt that Rangers can do this. None. But they have to have real belief that it is possible, and they can't wait for other clubs to do it for them. They have to hammer this home by deciding what they want and by going for it with ferocity. They won't get every player they want, they won't get rid of every player they want, but every change they achieve will get us closer if the player coming in has the right character.
I'd love that challenge. I'd kill for it right now. And if they have people that don't feel the same way, well they're the first people who have to go.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 09:45 - Apr 30 with 3097 views | hoof_hearted |
People with a desire to achieve more.
Not people who are happy with what they have already achieved.
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| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 09:58 - Apr 30 with 3074 views | Monkey |
What I've never understood is why this doesn't routinely happen anyway.
Don't clubs try and find out about the character of the player they are considering buying in the first place? Seems crazy they just employ anyone regardless of attitude or how they might fit in with the rest of their team mates. |  | | |
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| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:06 - Apr 30 with 3054 views | Hunterhoop |
Ale Faurlin has a great character and loves the club. Christ he even used to train on his own in Ravenscourt Park on Sunday morning if he hadn't played on Sunday! |  | | |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:09 - Apr 30 with 3036 views | QPRDave |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 09:38 - Apr 30 by JonDoeman |
Scott Parker. |
Funny i wondered him ....would he drop....would he view us as unworthy of his talents....jeez i'm paranoid about signing anyone after the Rigg/Hughes tenure |  | | |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:12 - Apr 30 with 3027 views | QPRDave |
Would that Oldham CF Matt Smith is it?.. would he be good enough, big b*gger gave the Liverpool defence hard time in the cup...young i think. I'd say he was the right character | | | |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:35 - Apr 30 with 3000 views | Hunterhoop |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:12 - Apr 30 by QPRDave |
Would that Oldham CF Matt Smith is it?.. would he be good enough, big b*gger gave the Liverpool defence hard time in the cup...young i think. I'd say he was the right character |
In all seriousness, I'd love a blanket policy of not signing any player who has been an established Premier League player.
Yes, we may miss out on one or two players who can still do it, but I think it sends a great message about who we are, what our identity is. Buy young, hungry, talented players from below (as we've always done!), give them a shot, help them develop and sell them on for a profit.
It resets the culture of the club. It will quickly change the work ethic and mentality of the squad as the make up changes.
And let's face it, as we've experienced, most players who sign for us established Prem clubs, having played at a high level for the, are on the wane. That's why their parent club doesn't want them. You can say, "well, they could still do a job for us", but we have no idea. We don't know how much they've really waned until we signed them. And as we've experienced, where is their drive and determination to succeed (given what they've already achieved in their career) vs. some youngsih League 1 or Champ player desperate to get a chance to play in the Prem and show what he can do.
We're QPR. We buy talent from the lower leagues, help develp them by giving them a chance, get the to play attractive, attacking football and then sell them on for a profit. That's what we were about and what we should be about again. We should be using TF's capital to ensure we get the best of the best when it comes to the talent pool beneath us, not wasting it on those on the wrong side of the hill from teams above us.
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| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:37 - Apr 30 with 2991 views | fakekerby |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:35 - Apr 30 by Hunterhoop |
In all seriousness, I'd love a blanket policy of not signing any player who has been an established Premier League player.
Yes, we may miss out on one or two players who can still do it, but I think it sends a great message about who we are, what our identity is. Buy young, hungry, talented players from below (as we've always done!), give them a shot, help them develop and sell them on for a profit.
It resets the culture of the club. It will quickly change the work ethic and mentality of the squad as the make up changes.
And let's face it, as we've experienced, most players who sign for us established Prem clubs, having played at a high level for the, are on the wane. That's why their parent club doesn't want them. You can say, "well, they could still do a job for us", but we have no idea. We don't know how much they've really waned until we signed them. And as we've experienced, where is their drive and determination to succeed (given what they've already achieved in their career) vs. some youngsih League 1 or Champ player desperate to get a chance to play in the Prem and show what he can do.
We're QPR. We buy talent from the lower leagues, help develp them by giving them a chance, get the to play attractive, attacking football and then sell them on for a profit. That's what we were about and what we should be about again. We should be using TF's capital to ensure we get the best of the best when it comes to the talent pool beneath us, not wasting it on those on the wrong side of the hill from teams above us.
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The only problem with the sell them on for a profit is what if we're just a stepping stone?
We need to be a big deal to these guys signing. | | | |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:38 - Apr 30 with 2984 views | sevenhoop |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:35 - Apr 30 by Hunterhoop |
In all seriousness, I'd love a blanket policy of not signing any player who has been an established Premier League player.
Yes, we may miss out on one or two players who can still do it, but I think it sends a great message about who we are, what our identity is. Buy young, hungry, talented players from below (as we've always done!), give them a shot, help them develop and sell them on for a profit.
It resets the culture of the club. It will quickly change the work ethic and mentality of the squad as the make up changes.
And let's face it, as we've experienced, most players who sign for us established Prem clubs, having played at a high level for the, are on the wane. That's why their parent club doesn't want them. You can say, "well, they could still do a job for us", but we have no idea. We don't know how much they've really waned until we signed them. And as we've experienced, where is their drive and determination to succeed (given what they've already achieved in their career) vs. some youngsih League 1 or Champ player desperate to get a chance to play in the Prem and show what he can do.
We're QPR. We buy talent from the lower leagues, help develp them by giving them a chance, get the to play attractive, attacking football and then sell them on for a profit. That's what we were about and what we should be about again. We should be using TF's capital to ensure we get the best of the best when it comes to the talent pool beneath us, not wasting it on those on the wrong side of the hill from teams above us.
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Hunter, totally agree - and Faurlin should lead it all... |  | | |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:43 - Apr 30 with 2975 views | barbicanranger |
Just watched the TF and HR video on player...it seems Tony has learnt his lesson on signing players willy nilly...if TF is long term then hopefully this season will prove to be a positive...and going forward we will only sign players that want to be with the club. |  | | |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:47 - Apr 30 with 2968 views | Hunterhoop |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:37 - Apr 30 by fakekerby |
The only problem with the sell them on for a profit is what if we're just a stepping stone?
We need to be a big deal to these guys signing. |
Not at all point. That point doesn't make sense.
To be a steppig stone for a player from "beneath us", he has to perform well enough to get a further move on.
We WANT to be a stepping stone. We're not out to be Man City, Utd, Chelsea, etc. That isn't us.
We WANT to be a stepping stone and have players see us as a gateway to the top of the Prem - Join us, work their socks off, play really well, attract attention, get a big money move. All the while we get the beneifts of all these players playing really well and then the profit when we sell them on.
Over time, we move up the leagues as this happens - hopefully to mid-table/Europe chasing Prem eam - and the pool "beneath" us moves higher too...so rather than searching League 1, we're searching bottom half of Prem. Everton are a decent blueprint for this.
If players don't perform, we won't be a stepping stone. They won't move anywhere better. Being us a potential stepping stone makes us a big deal to these players from "beneath" us. | | | |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:52 - Apr 30 with 2960 views | BerkoRanger |
Anyone seen the film "Moneyball" ? | | | |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:55 - Apr 30 with 2949 views | timcocking |
What is so bloody irritating is that nearly everybody i ever play a game of football with or against at any level manages to try bloody hard. Personally, i hope i've always put in 100% anytime i've been inolved in a competitive match or a tournament. It's not exactly the toughest thing in the world to run around and get knackered for an hour and a half.
F@cking tw@ts. |  | | |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:57 - Apr 30 with 2941 views | ngbqpr |
If HR wants characters & top blokes - why did he persevere with Bosingwa?
Sorry, I'm mentioning this at every opportunity (a bit like Clive and getting ST prices right  ) - but it's really been bugging me - Fabio, Onouha, Traore, even Ben Haim, should all have been ahead of him for the fb slots in the last 3 months |  |
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| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:59 - Apr 30 with 2936 views | Hunterhoop |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:52 - Apr 30 by BerkoRanger |
Anyone seen the film "Moneyball" ? |
Yes.
But you do know Liverpool's owners (aka Boston Red Sox owners - the team who tried to pick up Brad Pitt's character at the end, and who embraced "moneyball" strategy anyway...and won world series with it) tried to do it at Liverpool.
In the summer:
They signed Carroll after he'd had the most headed goals in the Prem league. They signed Downing after he'd had the most assists and completed crossed in the Prem.
They signed Adam after he'd scored the most free kicks and had high no. of assists from set pieces
They signed Jordan for the pass ratio and distance covered (I think) at Sunderland.
etc.
etc.
All those signings were moneyball signings.
Trouble was....two fold:
1) they were all pap next season
2) Daglish - in spite of clearly signing Downing and Carroll for one to supply the other in a 4-4-2 shape. Daglish only ever played them together twice ALL season. he didn't buy into it and scuppered it from the off.
A doubt there's a manager in football who agrees with the "Moneyball" philosophy, because most would see it as undermining the value of what they bring to the table. It's a philosophy of stats defeating subjective opinion. | | | |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 11:01 - Apr 30 with 2930 views | Jamie |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:52 - Apr 30 by BerkoRanger |
Anyone seen the film "Moneyball" ? |
Lol!
"Who do you like at short stop?"
"Sanchez?"
"Ugly girlfriend"
"So?"
"Hes got an ugly girlfriend. No confidence! Hes not an Oakland A" | | | |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 11:03 - Apr 30 with 2922 views | Hunterhoop |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:57 - Apr 30 by ngbqpr |
If HR wants characters & top blokes - why did he persevere with Bosingwa?
Sorry, I'm mentioning this at every opportunity (a bit like Clive and getting ST prices right ) - but it's really been bugging me - Fabio, Onouha, Traore, even Ben Haim, should all have been ahead of him for the fb slots in the last 3 months |
Well, exactly. Either he thinks Bosingwa has a "great character", in which case I worry massively about his judgement - he was here when he went on strike FFS!
OR
this is all bluster from 'Arry in an attempt to divert any blame from himself by saying the squad is full of w*nkers. Again, the question here is, why loan out one of our best characters (for reasosn mentioned earlier) in Ale Faurlin.
Ultimately, I don't think 'Arry is really being honest here. I don't think he cares too much about the whole "top bloke" act. I think he just wants more of a churn of players because he always makes a cut in these dealings.
My only hope is that he's trying t put Bosingwa in the shop window....but he's been playing him for months so I doubt that. | | | |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 11:10 - Apr 30 with 2913 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:59 - Apr 30 by Hunterhoop |
Yes.
But you do know Liverpool's owners (aka Boston Red Sox owners - the team who tried to pick up Brad Pitt's character at the end, and who embraced "moneyball" strategy anyway...and won world series with it) tried to do it at Liverpool.
In the summer:
They signed Carroll after he'd had the most headed goals in the Prem league. They signed Downing after he'd had the most assists and completed crossed in the Prem.
They signed Adam after he'd scored the most free kicks and had high no. of assists from set pieces
They signed Jordan for the pass ratio and distance covered (I think) at Sunderland.
etc.
etc.
All those signings were moneyball signings.
Trouble was....two fold:
1) they were all pap next season
2) Daglish - in spite of clearly signing Downing and Carroll for one to supply the other in a 4-4-2 shape. Daglish only ever played them together twice ALL season. he didn't buy into it and scuppered it from the off.
A doubt there's a manager in football who agrees with the "Moneyball" philosophy, because most would see it as undermining the value of what they bring to the table. It's a philosophy of stats defeating subjective opinion. |
Strange thing is that The Red Sox owners used Moneyball to win them the two World Series and only of late, and in their Liverpool dealings, did they veer away from it. I get your point that Carrol et al were signed with stats research but because of their massive transfer fees they were not true Moneyball signings ie stats to value ratio should have disqualified them.
Now, the same Red Sox owners are going back to Moneyball thinking but with one added rider - character. Moneyball has never before factored in character, which was its downfall. I listen to podcasts where statistics heads regularly dispute that wins have any correlation with character, morale or even the manager's ability! | |
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| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 11:14 - Apr 30 with 2905 views | Hunterhoop |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 10:57 - Apr 30 by ngbqpr |
If HR wants characters & top blokes - why did he persevere with Bosingwa?
Sorry, I'm mentioning this at every opportunity (a bit like Clive and getting ST prices right ) - but it's really been bugging me - Fabio, Onouha, Traore, even Ben Haim, should all have been ahead of him for the fb slots in the last 3 months |
Well, exactly. Either he thinks Bosingwa has a "great character", in which case I worry massively about his judgement - he was here when he went on strike FFS!
OR
this is all bluster from 'Arry in an attempt to divert any blame from himself by saying the squad is full of w*nkers. Again, the question here is, why loan out one of our best characters (for reasosn mentioned earlier) in Ale Faurlin.
Ultimately, I don't think 'Arry is really being honest here. I don't think he cares too much about the whole "top bloke" act. I think he just wants more of a churn of players because he always makes a cut in these dealings.
My only hope is that he's trying t put Bosingwa in the shop window....but he's been playing him for months so I doubt that. | | | |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 11:21 - Apr 30 with 2886 views | Juzzie |
| Characters, right sorts, top blokes ... on 09:45 - Apr 30 by hoof_hearted |
People with a desire to achieve more.
Not people who are happy with what they have already achieved.
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Exactly, and this is why it's time contracts are a bit more imaginative and results based. Give the players an incentive.
What incentive does a player have if they'll pick up at least £65k a week regardless of the result. A win bonus will make no difference so why bother eh?
We'll know this will never happen especially with Gordon 'the champion of players' Taylor is still around.
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