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On the Subject of club debts 16:07 - Mar 7 with 1487 viewsTGRRRSSS

Why are we such a source of fascination in terms of our debt and published figures of £22m loss last season, I appreciate it's a lot but aren't Bolton in a similar position, Blackburn have huge debts I think, Wolves (of people recently relegated)
Must PL clubs are making losses aren't they, Liverpool of course, Man United are balancing a fine act if only becuase of the debt plundered ONTO them, and Arsenal have been servicing losses year on year by selling players like RVP, Fabregas et al, I know they have huge cash reserves BUT I did read they broadly speaking have made losses most years.
Chelsea made Profit last year but surely year on year they actually have huge "debts" and costs that without Roman they could not service.

So allowing for us having a smaller ground why such an obsession over us when many clubs in their own way could get themselves into huge problems very very quickly.
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On the Subject of club debts on 16:15 - Mar 7 with 1457 viewsfakekerby

Exactly that, we have a tiny ground. We *need* the sky money to even stand a chance of having enough income to sustain our levels of spending.
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On the Subject of club debts on 16:15 - Mar 7 with 1451 viewsadhoc_qpr

Because we've become the poster child for financial excess and mismangement sadly - first unfairly under Flav and Bernie and now justifiably under Tony et al.
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On the Subject of club debts on 16:23 - Mar 7 with 1437 viewsTW_R

On the Subject of club debts on 16:15 - Mar 7 by fakekerby

Exactly that, we have a tiny ground. We *need* the sky money to even stand a chance of having enough income to sustain our levels of spending.


But don't most of the clubs need the Sky money? There are very few clubs that make money and there are very few clubs that have spent less than us. It's really all about the Sky money. Even if we had a 40,000 seater stadium, we still wouldn't make enough to sustain a PL team.
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On the Subject of club debts on 16:35 - Mar 7 with 1418 viewsNorthernr

On the Subject of club debts on 16:15 - Mar 7 by fakekerby

Exactly that, we have a tiny ground. We *need* the sky money to even stand a chance of having enough income to sustain our levels of spending.


We're no different to Bolton. Their average gate was about the same as ours last season, their wages were a high percentage of turnover and their debt much bigger.

The whole football league is fcked to varying degrees and relying on owners to subsidise them.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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On the Subject of club debts on 16:36 - Mar 7 with 1414 viewsGloucs_R

On the Subject of club debts on 16:35 - Mar 7 by Northernr

We're no different to Bolton. Their average gate was about the same as ours last season, their wages were a high percentage of turnover and their debt much bigger.

The whole football league is fcked to varying degrees and relying on owners to subsidise them.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]


money grabbing players
Low life agents
Armchair fans

No wonder I am starting to hate the sport

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On the Subject of club debts on 16:48 - Mar 7 with 1395 viewsfakekerby

On the Subject of club debts on 16:23 - Mar 7 by TW_R

But don't most of the clubs need the Sky money? There are very few clubs that make money and there are very few clubs that have spent less than us. It's really all about the Sky money. Even if we had a 40,000 seater stadium, we still wouldn't make enough to sustain a PL team.


Yeah of course they need it... point being we're looking most likely to lose that income source and therefore crumble into financial ruin.
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On the Subject of club debts on 16:57 - Mar 7 with 1378 viewsTW_R

On the Subject of club debts on 16:48 - Mar 7 by fakekerby

Yeah of course they need it... point being we're looking most likely to lose that income source and therefore crumble into financial ruin.


But most clubs are in the same position as us. They all run the risk of losing that income source. We aren't unique in that most clubs have large debts and spend large amounts on wages and transfers. Pretty much all these clubs follow the same model.
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On the Subject of club debts on 17:03 - Mar 7 with 1362 viewsthame_hoops

I thought we had no debt? Hence the difference between out situation and portsmouths, they had huge external debt
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On the Subject of club debts on 17:20 - Mar 7 with 1322 viewsadhoc_qpr

On the Subject of club debts on 17:03 - Mar 7 by thame_hoops

I thought we had no debt? Hence the difference between out situation and portsmouths, they had huge external debt


We've been paying our taxes, i think that's what separates us from Pompey!
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On the Subject of club debts on 17:23 - Mar 7 with 1317 viewsNW5Hoop

I presume our debt is to the investors in the club rather than external.

Some have said that's alright, because it can be turned into equity. In our case, though, it probably can't - turning debt into equity basically means issuing more shares. You can do that if you own 100% of the club, but I can't believe Mittal would agree to his 33% being watered down to make the books look better.
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On the Subject of club debts on 17:23 - Mar 7 with 1317 viewsthame_hoops

On the Subject of club debts on 17:20 - Mar 7 by adhoc_qpr

We've been paying our taxes, i think that's what separates us from Pompey!


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On the Subject of club debts on 17:42 - Mar 7 with 1286 viewsVancouverHoop

On the Subject of club debts on 16:15 - Mar 7 by adhoc_qpr

Because we've become the poster child for financial excess and mismangement sadly - first unfairly under Flav and Bernie and now justifiably under Tony et al.


This basically.

Also we're London based medium-small club, so get more media attention than a provincial club of a similar size. If we go down and Watford come up, their overlapping ownership, and "sharing" of players with European clubs, will bring similar scrutiny I reckon.

Finally there's a lot of jealousy and schadenfreude (shameful joy) in seeing an ambitious club screw up. We're supposed to "know our place," not "get above ourselves," as my Gran used to say.
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On the Subject of club debts on 17:57 - Mar 7 with 1264 viewspomanjou

On the Subject of club debts on 17:23 - Mar 7 by NW5Hoop

I presume our debt is to the investors in the club rather than external.

Some have said that's alright, because it can be turned into equity. In our case, though, it probably can't - turning debt into equity basically means issuing more shares. You can do that if you own 100% of the club, but I can't believe Mittal would agree to his 33% being watered down to make the books look better.


Presumably they have loaned to the club in proportion to the shareholdings they have. They can agree an debt/equity swap between themselves or a majority could fund it by putting even more money in and increasing their share whilst the minority stands aside and allow dilution of their share. It will all depend on the Shareholder Agreement and the Mems and Arts of Assn.

Acccording to these new accounts (which were signed off on 9th Jan) most of the debt apart from what I would presume is 'small beer working capital requirements' came from related parties.

Someone mentioned about 'we pay our taxes, Portsmouth dont'. We havent apid for many moons. You have to first make a profit. There are currently £100m odd in accumulated tax losses! Havent got the exact figure to hand.

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On the Subject of club debts on 18:08 - Mar 7 with 1244 viewshighleverhoopL

On the Subject of club debts on 16:15 - Mar 7 by fakekerby

Exactly that, we have a tiny ground. We *need* the sky money to even stand a chance of having enough income to sustain our levels of spending.


We may have a tiny ground but it is full of people paying alot for their tickets. God knows what the Korean tourists are paying - I am sure the club sells tickets direct to tour companies. Norwich may get 25,000 every week but they have 20,000 st holders
and a st costs about 10p.
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On the Subject of club debts on 18:16 - Mar 7 with 1230 viewspomanjou

On the Subject of club debts on 18:08 - Mar 7 by highleverhoopL

We may have a tiny ground but it is full of people paying alot for their tickets. God knows what the Korean tourists are paying - I am sure the club sells tickets direct to tour companies. Norwich may get 25,000 every week but they have 20,000 st holders
and a st costs about 10p.


My memory says the accounts say £405,000 average income per game or about 15% of total incomes. Whatever ever you may think the ground has not been full that many times since we came up. If the average is 16,500 than thats less than £25 quid each. Cheap for west london.

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On the Subject of club debts on 12:27 - Mar 8 with 1117 viewsTGRRRSSS

I appreciate are location makes us a bit more newsworthy but it does seem like using one club as a poster child for a mess that goes way beyond one club is not that different really to sticking your head in the sand as regards other clubs up and down the country who are losing money hand over fist. The agents is a classic issue that needs to be brought under control. As I see it a Agent should simply be a "Manager" if you will who can be employed (or his agency) by the player and the player alone pays all his fees. Why FA/Fifa/UEFA don't get to grips with this can only be because of bribery and corrpution. The fact Sullivan or Gold recently said they'd been threatened by an agent who thought he was being elbowed out of a deal (The suggestion was violence) proves to me that this needs to be sorted out sooner rather than later.
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On the Subject of club debts on 12:30 - Mar 8 with 1109 viewsJuzzie


People love to see failure, especially if the failure has come about due to excess spending that should have meant failure should not of happeend.


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On the Subject of club debts on 12:43 - Mar 8 with 1097 viewsthemodfather

On the Subject of club debts on 12:30 - Mar 8 by Juzzie


People love to see failure, especially if the failure has come about due to excess spending that should have meant failure should not of happeend.




many forget leicesters huge debts were pretty much written off and they romped to the title that year..level field eh?
saints were debt ridden, how has that been overcome or managed..i recall how bitter their fans were 3-4 yrs ago calling us money bags etc!! i said to them, you've a new ground, what we got!? lol
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On the Subject of club debts on 13:18 - Mar 8 with 1048 viewsFulhamjim

On the Subject of club debts on 17:42 - Mar 7 by VancouverHoop

This basically.

Also we're London based medium-small club, so get more media attention than a provincial club of a similar size. If we go down and Watford come up, their overlapping ownership, and "sharing" of players with European clubs, will bring similar scrutiny I reckon.

Finally there's a lot of jealousy and schadenfreude (shameful joy) in seeing an ambitious club screw up. We're supposed to "know our place," not "get above ourselves," as my Gran used to say.


you just used the A word - is that you, Leslie?


Nothing like a bit of Am6iti0n

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On the Subject of club debts on 13:48 - Mar 8 with 1025 viewsthemodfather

On the Subject of club debts on 13:18 - Mar 8 by Fulhamjim

you just used the A word - is that you, Leslie?



man utd have huge debts, thanks to mr glazer..so do liverpool
i'd guess man city but in most cases they are "under written" and ok until the day the under writer sods off, then i assume the club/ fans get stuck with the mess left behind!?
fulham too have debts, mr fayed fronted much of it, as does mr whelan at wigan.
under steve mcmahon? blackpool proudly boasted they were debt free i bet they aren't now.
modern football allows the debts and until we go the way of germany, most clubs will stay close to the line...where are deportivo now? they punched above their weight and were a few years back a credible competing european team.
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On the Subject of club debts on 14:44 - Mar 8 with 991 viewsphomem

Isn't it because Arry is employed by QPR
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On the Subject of club debts on 15:47 - Mar 8 with 964 viewsfakekerby

On the Subject of club debts on 16:57 - Mar 7 by TW_R

But most clubs are in the same position as us. They all run the risk of losing that income source. We aren't unique in that most clubs have large debts and spend large amounts on wages and transfers. Pretty much all these clubs follow the same model.


No other club is bottom of the league right now, hence the interest.
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On the Subject of club debts on 18:17 - Mar 8 with 905 viewsjo_qpr63

On the Subject of club debts on 16:15 - Mar 7 by adhoc_qpr

Because we've become the poster child for financial excess and mismangement sadly - first unfairly under Flav and Bernie and now justifiably under Tony et al.


Agree. We had high profile owners, with a high profile takeover, with a high profile film about the whole high profile 4 year plan. We've brought in high profile managers with high profile players.We are there to be shot at. Plus we are high profile rubbish!
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On the Subject of club debts on 19:02 - Mar 8 with 890 viewsVancouverHoop

On the Subject of club debts on 13:18 - Mar 8 by Fulhamjim

you just used the A word - is that you, Leslie?



No.
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