By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Absolutely bizarre scenes in the Oval Office today, staggering. Trump and his VP clearly had a plan to ambush him, but to do it so publicly was bad form.
Don't forget Vance's role in all this. Overnight, he referred to the UK as some random country who hasn't fought a war in 30 years. What respect and thanks has he shown for our heroic servicemen and women killed in action supporting the US?
None whatsoever and all due to Blair’s determination to crawl up George Bush Jnr’s rear end in order to make himself look like a “major player on the World stage.” And our reward for the loss of our servicemen in order to satisfy Bush’s war cravings has been to be treated ever since by the Americans as something nasty they’ve got on the bottom of their shoe.
The whole infamous meeting was horrendous behaviour by Trump and Vance.
The sort of behaviour you get reprimanded in eighth grade for and you hope the kids learn from it, going forwards.
It's awful to see such behaviour in the highest office possible in the world.
What hope is there for the rest of us minions.
The saying thank you, reminds myself of my own father, always needing a please and thank you, some times when the opposite really was required.
Ok, it's not brilliant at times within family dynamics but these guys are in unbelievably influential positions.
The withdrawal of aid, whether a negotiation tactic or simply a two fingered salute to someone who has upset them, by not agreeing with everything they say
This is on America and the American people.
If I was an American, my sense of shame would be the highest it's ever been as of now.
The whole scenario stinks and reeks of the worst stench possible !!!
The US can't give security assurances against Russia, because say Russia continue to attack then you are in WW3 and the nukes could start flying shortly after.
The minerals deal was to get US "security" into Ukraine as a form of soft power to protect US interests which would deter Putin from attacking further without the danger of it triggering an official direct conflict.
The way people have lost their minds at Trump having a go at Zelensky on TV, but are happy for the Ukrainian people to continue to be slaughtered daily for a few years completely baffles me.
Any deal has to include a Ceasefire and long term security for a sovereign country that has been invaded. If there are several thousand US workers in Ukraine, you have far more faith than me that Putin wont still attack. Whatever the consequences. US have been quite forthright that any military support for Ukraine is lukewarm, at best.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky
I’m not entirely convinced that Russia do want to take the whole of Ukraine.
I would have thought, if that was the case, they wouldn’t be so amenable to the US getting their hands on 50% of Ukraine natural resources, surely they would want that themselves?
In 2014, after a democratically elected Ukrainian President was overthrown by a combination of EU and US pressure (considering how much we supposedly love democracy it’s fascinating how quick we were to overthrow a democracy we didn’t particularly like) it shouldn’t have been a surprise that Russia would at least take Crimea if only to ensure they still had that gateway to the Black Sea.
Again, with the Ukraine push to NATO, it’s unsurprising that Russia have taken the part of Eastern Ukraine closest to Moscow. There seems little appetite to push further.
We can rightly condemn them for these actions but it’s also easy to see, if you look hard enough, that all these moves could just as easily be seen as defensive actions rather than an attack on the whole of Europe.
The Biden and Obama presidencies presided over both those calamities, that’s what we are all paying for now in dollars and pounds and Ukraine and Russia are paying for in bodies. Somehow they’ve walked away smelling of roses. Strange world.
I’m not entirely convinced that Russia do want to take the whole of Ukraine.
I would have thought, if that was the case, they wouldn’t be so amenable to the US getting their hands on 50% of Ukraine natural resources, surely they would want that themselves?
In 2014, after a democratically elected Ukrainian President was overthrown by a combination of EU and US pressure (considering how much we supposedly love democracy it’s fascinating how quick we were to overthrow a democracy we didn’t particularly like) it shouldn’t have been a surprise that Russia would at least take Crimea if only to ensure they still had that gateway to the Black Sea.
Again, with the Ukraine push to NATO, it’s unsurprising that Russia have taken the part of Eastern Ukraine closest to Moscow. There seems little appetite to push further.
We can rightly condemn them for these actions but it’s also easy to see, if you look hard enough, that all these moves could just as easily be seen as defensive actions rather than an attack on the whole of Europe.
The Biden and Obama presidencies presided over both those calamities, that’s what we are all paying for now in dollars and pounds and Ukraine and Russia are paying for in bodies. Somehow they’ve walked away smelling of roses. Strange world.
Suggest you do some more reading about the events of 2014 in Ukraine, preferably that isn't written from a Russian biased viewpoint.
I’m not entirely convinced that Russia do want to take the whole of Ukraine.
I would have thought, if that was the case, they wouldn’t be so amenable to the US getting their hands on 50% of Ukraine natural resources, surely they would want that themselves?
In 2014, after a democratically elected Ukrainian President was overthrown by a combination of EU and US pressure (considering how much we supposedly love democracy it’s fascinating how quick we were to overthrow a democracy we didn’t particularly like) it shouldn’t have been a surprise that Russia would at least take Crimea if only to ensure they still had that gateway to the Black Sea.
Again, with the Ukraine push to NATO, it’s unsurprising that Russia have taken the part of Eastern Ukraine closest to Moscow. There seems little appetite to push further.
We can rightly condemn them for these actions but it’s also easy to see, if you look hard enough, that all these moves could just as easily be seen as defensive actions rather than an attack on the whole of Europe.
The Biden and Obama presidencies presided over both those calamities, that’s what we are all paying for now in dollars and pounds and Ukraine and Russia are paying for in bodies. Somehow they’ve walked away smelling of roses. Strange world.
What makes you think Russia are keen on the US getting their hands on 50% of the minerals? It seems more likely that they aren't and made their feelings known before that meeting. That would explain how it went from Zelensky being in the US to sign the deal to a tirade from Vance and then a concerted effort to scupper it. Instructions from the Kremlin is my guess.
What makes you think Russia are keen on the US getting their hands on 50% of the minerals? It seems more likely that they aren't and made their feelings known before that meeting. That would explain how it went from Zelensky being in the US to sign the deal to a tirade from Vance and then a concerted effort to scupper it. Instructions from the Kremlin is my guess.
I’m not entirely convinced that Russia do want to take the whole of Ukraine.
I would have thought, if that was the case, they wouldn’t be so amenable to the US getting their hands on 50% of Ukraine natural resources, surely they would want that themselves?
In 2014, after a democratically elected Ukrainian President was overthrown by a combination of EU and US pressure (considering how much we supposedly love democracy it’s fascinating how quick we were to overthrow a democracy we didn’t particularly like) it shouldn’t have been a surprise that Russia would at least take Crimea if only to ensure they still had that gateway to the Black Sea.
Again, with the Ukraine push to NATO, it’s unsurprising that Russia have taken the part of Eastern Ukraine closest to Moscow. There seems little appetite to push further.
We can rightly condemn them for these actions but it’s also easy to see, if you look hard enough, that all these moves could just as easily be seen as defensive actions rather than an attack on the whole of Europe.
The Biden and Obama presidencies presided over both those calamities, that’s what we are all paying for now in dollars and pounds and Ukraine and Russia are paying for in bodies. Somehow they’ve walked away smelling of roses. Strange world.
If Russia didn't want to take the whole of Ukraine then why did they initially try to get Kiev before they had to make a hasty retreat? (not before committing many war crimes on the way)
I don't think there is an ideal outcome from here.
Sign a peace deal, avoid WW3, but lose 20% of land and hope war doesn't break out again in a few years is about the best that can be hoped for.
Why prolong it further without the prospect of any of these options improving while losing countless men?
For the third time in this thread; if Russia stops fighting then there is no more war, if Ukraine stops fighting then there is no more Ukraine. It really is that simple.
The way trump is going the U.S.A might be at war with Canada.....looks like the Trump government is totally aligned to Putin and Russia....this is scary stuff.
AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!!
For the third time in this thread; if Russia stops fighting then there is no more war, if Ukraine stops fighting then there is no more Ukraine. It really is that simple.
This.
I'll give the Putin supporters on here the credit of not calling them Russian bots but if they were Russian bots, they'd be spouting the same bollocks.
Blaming Ukraine for the war. The fking state of it. If you're going to get all your news from FB and YouTube, try listening to some of the stuff on there that isn't created to defend a man who literally imprisons his political rivals or throws them out of windows.
Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore.
I'll give the Putin supporters on here the credit of not calling them Russian bots but if they were Russian bots, they'd be spouting the same bollocks.
Blaming Ukraine for the war. The fking state of it. If you're going to get all your news from FB and YouTube, try listening to some of the stuff on there that isn't created to defend a man who literally imprisons his political rivals or throws them out of windows.
Your wasting your time mate , they won't listen!
AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!!
The Putinisation of the US is proceeding faster than anyone anticipated.
From the radical left Financial Times.
There is nothing cryptic about Donald Trump’s endorsement of cryptocurrency. Four years ago, he said bitcoin was a “scam”. Now he wants to make America the “crypto capital of the world”. To see that as a U-turn is to miss how Trump works. The second statement follows naturally from the first.
On Sunday, Trump said that five cryptocurrencies would be included on the US Federal Reserve’s balance sheet. America’s “crypto reserve” would include bitcoin, ethereum and three others (solana, cardano and XRP) that caught investors unawares. Whether David Sacks, Trump’s “crypto and AI czar”, whose investment firm has stakes in all five, was also surprised is a question for the Securities and Exchange Commission. Each surged in value following Trump’s announcement.
A few hours later, Trump scrapped America’s chief anti-money laundering measure — the rule that US shell companies must disclose their beneficial owner. The second move also flowed from his first. Last month, he shut down the Department of Justice’s anti-kleptocracy initiative, which has been seizing assets such as mega yachts from sanctioned Russian oligarchs.
The most striking aspect to these steps, which amount to a charter for criminals, is that Trump is making little attempt to dress them up. This pig has no lipstick. Trump and his wife Melania have launched their own memecoins. Trump’s alter ego, Elon Musk, is also a heavy crypto investor. Indeed, there is a non-cryptic clue in Musk’s so-called Department of Government Efficiency (Doge), which shares an acronym with a cryptocurrency. One of Musk’s nicknames is “Dogefather”.
No matter how chaotic Trump’s flurry of actions, a bright thread holds them together. France’s Louis XIV first summarised it as: “L’État, c’est moi.” Trump might update that to: “The State — it’s me (and Elon for now).” The planned launch of a crypto reserve is more transparent than most; the Fed would serve as backstop for investors in a speculative asset with no obvious use value except to criminals and the dark web. It will be an insurance floor for billionaires, including the Trump family. If crypto’s value falls, the Fed can step in and buy more.
It is even harder to find a public value for anonymous limited liability companies. Complying with the Treasury anti-money laundering regulations involved filling in short forms and legally signing off. Trump claimed the rules were a “disaster for small businesses nationwide”. Better-informed FT readers might suggest a legitimate business that would disguise its ultimate ownership. I cannot think of one. It is worth recalling that a Reuters investigation in 2017 estimated that a third of the units in Trump’s Florida towers were anonymously owned. It also found that Russian passport holders had invested at least $98.4mn in Trump’s seven luxury-branded Florida towers.
It gets worse. Musk’s Doge operation aims to cut public spending by rooting out waste, fraud and abuse. His declared savings do not yet add up to a decimal rounding error. But Doge’s hit to US regulatory capacity is already significant. Thousands have also been fired from the Internal Revenue Service. If Doge’s goal was fiscal efficiency, it would be doing the opposite. For every dollar invested in tax collection, the IRS yields at least five in return. Ordinary taxpayers have their income deducted at source. Musk, whose company Tesla has paid no federal income taxes in two of the last three years, employs people to ensure collection day never arrives.
The Washington landscape is littered with regulatory agencies in turmoil. But Musk’s impact on the Federal Aviation Administration deserves special citation. Without public bidding, Musk’s Starlink seems to be looking to take over the FAA’s air traffic control system. In the absence of Musk identifying waste, fraud and abuse, here is an example. A hostile takeover of the FAA by Starlink would be an abuse of power that involves probable waste and is quite possibly a fraud on the US taxpayer. It could also put air passengers in danger.
The idea that Trump is “flood[ing] the zone with shit” no longer makes sense when his actions all point in one direction. Even his foreign policy is driven by acquisition, whether that be turning the Gaza Strip into a Middle Eastern riviera, buying Greenland or taking Ukraine’s mineral resources. Trump’s crypto move threatens a similar predation on the US taxpayer — as do Musk’s conflicts of interest. All of this is occurring under America’s nose. Trump has subverted the role of the public servant. The US state now serves him.
For the third time in this thread; if Russia stops fighting then there is no more war, if Ukraine stops fighting then there is no more Ukraine. It really is that simple.
Sorry mate accidentally voted you down, I totally agree with you.
AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!!
I'll give the Putin supporters on here the credit of not calling them Russian bots but if they were Russian bots, they'd be spouting the same bollocks.
Blaming Ukraine for the war. The fking state of it. If you're going to get all your news from FB and YouTube, try listening to some of the stuff on there that isn't created to defend a man who literally imprisons his political rivals or throws them out of windows.
Oh no, please don't send out the bat signal for that crypto obsessed nutjob
In the Summer of 1968 the Russian led Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia took place.
As a Soldier of the British Army of the Rhine stationed In West Germany, pretty much all hell let loose and before we knew It we were In the armoured personnel carriers and out of the barracks and dug In fully expecting an Invasion.
Instead of boozing and smoking cheap marijuana In the barracks we were dug In individual trenches In the pouring rain looking to the East and yep crapping ourselves.
They never came the only noise we could here was the Platoon NCO reminding us to keep a careful eye on our rifles' safety catch and the sound of our Chieftain tanks taking up they're positions, you looked at your mate and his face said ''f uck'', and he was right.
Two nights and days we were out there before being stood down and returned to barracks. The Warsaw pact had people watching us and how we would respond, this was different though. I had huge respect for Alexander Dubcek.
The late Sixties were scary times, we trained relentlessly we watched films of how the Russians would invade the West.
I watch bits and pieces of news feeds but I find them a little bit biased, I would say that the Ukrainian military have done brilliantly, I'm not sure that they can hang on though for much longer.
The Russian army have performed poorly the river crossing before Xmas was a disaster for them.
I dunno anymore.
My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic.
Maybe some highbrow reading is required (if your retired you'll have time to read the actual paper attached below).
I've attached a paper, just published by rightwing historian Sir Niall Ferguson, arguing that once an Empire spends more servicing the interest on the national debt than defense then it is almost inevitable that it will decline and eventually collapse. The US reached this tipping point last year.
It's worth reading because it's from an actual qualified expert, unlike all of us. Oh, I also attached the Daily Mail article for a quick synopsis.
The Putinisation of the US is proceeding faster than anyone anticipated.
From the radical left Financial Times.
There is nothing cryptic about Donald Trump’s endorsement of cryptocurrency. Four years ago, he said bitcoin was a “scam”. Now he wants to make America the “crypto capital of the world”. To see that as a U-turn is to miss how Trump works. The second statement follows naturally from the first.
On Sunday, Trump said that five cryptocurrencies would be included on the US Federal Reserve’s balance sheet. America’s “crypto reserve” would include bitcoin, ethereum and three others (solana, cardano and XRP) that caught investors unawares. Whether David Sacks, Trump’s “crypto and AI czar”, whose investment firm has stakes in all five, was also surprised is a question for the Securities and Exchange Commission. Each surged in value following Trump’s announcement.
A few hours later, Trump scrapped America’s chief anti-money laundering measure — the rule that US shell companies must disclose their beneficial owner. The second move also flowed from his first. Last month, he shut down the Department of Justice’s anti-kleptocracy initiative, which has been seizing assets such as mega yachts from sanctioned Russian oligarchs.
The most striking aspect to these steps, which amount to a charter for criminals, is that Trump is making little attempt to dress them up. This pig has no lipstick. Trump and his wife Melania have launched their own memecoins. Trump’s alter ego, Elon Musk, is also a heavy crypto investor. Indeed, there is a non-cryptic clue in Musk’s so-called Department of Government Efficiency (Doge), which shares an acronym with a cryptocurrency. One of Musk’s nicknames is “Dogefather”.
No matter how chaotic Trump’s flurry of actions, a bright thread holds them together. France’s Louis XIV first summarised it as: “L’État, c’est moi.” Trump might update that to: “The State — it’s me (and Elon for now).” The planned launch of a crypto reserve is more transparent than most; the Fed would serve as backstop for investors in a speculative asset with no obvious use value except to criminals and the dark web. It will be an insurance floor for billionaires, including the Trump family. If crypto’s value falls, the Fed can step in and buy more.
It is even harder to find a public value for anonymous limited liability companies. Complying with the Treasury anti-money laundering regulations involved filling in short forms and legally signing off. Trump claimed the rules were a “disaster for small businesses nationwide”. Better-informed FT readers might suggest a legitimate business that would disguise its ultimate ownership. I cannot think of one. It is worth recalling that a Reuters investigation in 2017 estimated that a third of the units in Trump’s Florida towers were anonymously owned. It also found that Russian passport holders had invested at least $98.4mn in Trump’s seven luxury-branded Florida towers.
It gets worse. Musk’s Doge operation aims to cut public spending by rooting out waste, fraud and abuse. His declared savings do not yet add up to a decimal rounding error. But Doge’s hit to US regulatory capacity is already significant. Thousands have also been fired from the Internal Revenue Service. If Doge’s goal was fiscal efficiency, it would be doing the opposite. For every dollar invested in tax collection, the IRS yields at least five in return. Ordinary taxpayers have their income deducted at source. Musk, whose company Tesla has paid no federal income taxes in two of the last three years, employs people to ensure collection day never arrives.
The Washington landscape is littered with regulatory agencies in turmoil. But Musk’s impact on the Federal Aviation Administration deserves special citation. Without public bidding, Musk’s Starlink seems to be looking to take over the FAA’s air traffic control system. In the absence of Musk identifying waste, fraud and abuse, here is an example. A hostile takeover of the FAA by Starlink would be an abuse of power that involves probable waste and is quite possibly a fraud on the US taxpayer. It could also put air passengers in danger.
The idea that Trump is “flood[ing] the zone with shit” no longer makes sense when his actions all point in one direction. Even his foreign policy is driven by acquisition, whether that be turning the Gaza Strip into a Middle Eastern riviera, buying Greenland or taking Ukraine’s mineral resources. Trump’s crypto move threatens a similar predation on the US taxpayer — as do Musk’s conflicts of interest. All of this is occurring under America’s nose. Trump has subverted the role of the public servant. The US state now serves him.
I'd not seen that, and have to say it is quite a compelling piece, convincingly laid out, although it feels to me like there is more going on than just 'it's a heist', as important as that is.
It's hard to witness the spectacle of a public cheering on a fat orange man and a gurning man-baby deranged by ketamine vandalizing their country without at least speculating at the psychology of it. Something I've been thinking about is that Trump 2.0 is almost the perfect conclusion to a decades-long process in which politics became increasingly and more barefacedly cynical, and electorates have become more and more resigned and, perhaps more importantly, nihilistic. I think liberals, even now, struggle with this point -- you can't just keep pointing out that Trump is corrupt and has no respect for the institutions of power -- because no one really cares any more.
On the whole Putiin's puppet thing - i mean, I thought Corbyn and Sanders were Putin's puppets a few minutes ago? Hard to keep up with it. But I think if your analysis of problems all the way from "where did Corbyn come from" to "why is Trump doing that?" keeps giving you the answer 'it's the boogy man again', it isn't quite right.
I just watched the whole 50 minutes of the meeting and on the whole it actually seemed to be going well and encouraging between the two Presidents then (39:54 in the video below) Trump said to the journalists "one more question..." and at this point JD Vance, who was not involved but started getting himself more and more involved in the closing 20 minutes, suddenly decides to jump in and take centre stage, loses the plot and absolutely kicked things off and was acting like it was an election rally and butt-sucking up to Trump big style.
Trump really should have jumped in and said "OK, lets take this offline and discuss privately. Thank you everyone for a good meeting, see you soon" and ended it there. Unfortunately he allowed it to carry on and allowed himself to get sucked in and the whole thing escalated. Vance must have been delighted.
During that heated exchange JD Vance copied Trump's hand gesture style, particularly where Trump holds his thumb and middle finger together while pointing with his index finger. I looked at other videos of Vance and it wasn't as prominent, if at all.
Seeing the whole video, Vance is absolutely the instigator in it all kicking off and triggering Trump. It was totally unnecessary as there was nothing that led for the need for that to happen. Absolutely deliberate sh@t stirring of the highest order. Sat back at the end with a smug look on his face.
Well, I hope you can at least read English though right?
Just about,but I can’t see anything there to read either. Just watched it on YouTube with subtitles.The end bit is a bit crude and pointless,but I get the story of the first part now.
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
