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A bit of perspective please! 07:34 - Jan 12 with 12213 views

Yet again, we lose a game, and some have gone completely overboard in their reaction.
We have lost to a pretty crap PL team, but we are a pretty crap mid table Championship team which is not very good at retaining the ball.

I had no issue with that starting lineup. We all knew Walsh would start and that Morgan, Dunne and Smyth all desperately needed a break.
Should Ashby have been hooked at HT? Probably, but he wasn't.

What is the difference in the teams? For me, keeping the ball. We've proven games in the Championship can be won with 35% possession, but against PL, there is no chance. We have the ball, they can't score, it's not rocket science, but we desperately need a central midfielder who can control a game.

Reaction in the next game, please Rangers!

A bit of perspective please! on 11:42 - Jan 13 with 1968 views

captainmycaptian

A bit of perspective please! on 10:03 - Jan 13 by Wilkinswatercarrier
We are discussing Brentford this morning ar work. We really don't get what the club is doing. You can't win the PL, so then what? 12th finish again. Its just weird. Even we didn't lose to Plymouth at home!🤣

Well we might lose away to them. Which is more likely now. They will be full of confidence after their win and we will be down after that smashing. It has to have an effect

[Post edited 13 Jan 11:45]

A bit of perspective please! on 11:43 - Jan 13 with 1952 views

Juzzie

A bit of perspective please! on 11:40 - Jan 13 by Northernr
All true. But it's a sport, it's meant to be about winning things.

It's a multi-billion pound business. 'Sport' went out of the window a long time ago

A bit of perspective please! on 11:48 - Jan 13 with 1893 views

KensalT

A bit of perspective please! on 11:40 - Jan 13 by Northernr
All true. But it's a sport, it's meant to be about winning things.

I didn't say I was in favour of it.

There are many reasons why fans love the game and devote themselves to their club.

But for the owners it's about running a business and the financial incentives of the PL are worth far more to them than cup glory.

It's a sad state of affairs but it seems to be where the game is at these days.

A bit of perspective please! on 11:50 - Jan 13 with 1883 views

QPR_John

A bit of perspective please! on 08:06 - Jan 13 by captainmycaptian

Nonsense, Tamworth, Doncaster showed how it should be done and what it means to them and their fans. Your attitude of its a meaningless comparison is wrong. You think the fans of Tamworth, Doncaster ect walked away feeling proud of their team ?? Tamworth should have ⁶ won. They were playing against Premier players. You miss the whole point of the FA cup, its lure, it attraction. The FA cup is what is right with football today the attitude of some of the clubs and players is what is wrong. As one if the 4500 that went up there to play spot the ball in the fog, I expected more and we deserved better.

[Post edited 13 Jan 11:16]

Really what did Tamworth get out of it. They held Spurs for 90 minutes and deserved a replay. The extra 30 minutes was too much and the level of fitness took control. Of course the FA cup as a competition was what football should be about. There is no going back the few clubs that now run football are not interested in "the magic of any competition" just how much money they can get out of it. In the table financial returns the FA cup is very low down. Of course if the draw keeps them apart and the likes of Manchester City, Liverpool, etc reach the latter stages then they will take it seriously. Its a day out with all the accompanying a*se licking from the media.

2024: Manchester City 1-2 Manchester United
2023: Manchester City 2-1 Manchester United
2022: Chelsea 0-0 Liverpool (Liverpool win 6-5 after penalty shootout)
2021: Chelsea 0-1 Leicester City
2020: Arsenal 2-1 Chelsea
2019: Manchester City 6-0 Watford
2018: Chelsea 1-0 Manchester United
The first Final to use a video assistant referee.
2017: Arsenal 2-1 Chelsea
2016: Crystal Palace 1-2 Manchester United (AET)
2015: Arsenal 4-0 Aston Villa
2014: Arsenal 3-2 Hull City (AET)
2013: Manchester City 0-1 Wigan Athletic
2024: Manchester City 1-2 Manchester United
2023: Manchester City 2-1 Manchester United
2022: Chelsea 0-0 Liverpool (Liverpool win 6-5 after penalty shootout)
2021: Chelsea 0-1 Leicester City
2020: Arsenal 2-1 Chelsea
2019: Manchester City 6-0 Watford
2018: Chelsea 1-0 Manchester United
The first Final to use a video assistant referee.
2017: Arsenal 2-1 Chelsea
2016: Crystal Palace 1-2 Manchester United (AET)
2015: Arsenal 4-0 Aston Villa
2014: Arsenal 3-2 Hull City (AET)
2013: Manchester City 0-1 Wigan Athletic
2024: Manchester City 1-2 Manchester United
2023: Manchester City 2-1 Manchester United
2022: Chelsea 0-0 Liverpool (Liverpool win 6-5 after penalty shootout)
2021: Chelsea 0-1 Leicester City
2020: Arsenal 2-1 Chelsea
2019: Manchester City 6-0 Watford
2018: Chelsea 1-0 Manchester United
The first Final to use a video assistant referee.
2017: Arsenal 2-1 Chelsea
2016: Crystal Palace 1-2 Manchester United (AET)
2015: Arsenal 4-0 Aston Villa
2014: Arsenal 3-2 Hull City (AET)
2013: Manchester City 0-1 Wigan Athletic

2013 the last time a team outside of the Premier League won

A bit of perspective please! on 11:51 - Jan 13 with 1870 views

GaryHaddock

A bit of perspective please! on 11:31 - Jan 13 by KensalT

Brentford owner Matthew Benham made his fortune in gambling.

As of today Brentford are 11 points clear of the bottom three with 18 games to go.

A professional gambler might think relegation from that position is unlikely.

So why not have a go in the cup!?

I think the issue for middling Premier League teams is the prize money per position, which according to this is worth £3.1m per place:

https://goaltheball.com/premier-league-prize-money/

A cup run might not result in relegation, but fixture congestion and possible injuries to key players might drop you three or four positions down the table. Ultimately that could cost a club £9-12m for a competition they know they're unlikely to win once they get drawn against one of the big boys.

And when you compare this to the FA Cup prize money per round, the winner gets £2m which is less than they would lose if a cup run only cost them one league position in the end:

https://goaltheball.com/premier-league-prize-money/

So maybe the risk isn't worth it to them.

The professional gambler doesn't seem to like the odds.

[Post edited 14 Jan 9:16]

Prize money for winning the third round is £5k!

A bit of perspective please! on 11:54 - Jan 13 with 1847 views

ChrisNW6

A bit of perspective please! on 11:15 - Jan 13 by Juzzie

I've gone back the last 10 years and here are the last 10 FA Cup 3rd round games we've played plus the following League game (apart from Plymouth).

Doesn't really make for good reading, irrespective of who the Manager has been.

In 10 FA Cup 3rd round games we've won just 2 despite 7 of them being at home.
Irrespective of the results of 9 of the FA Cup games, we've won just 3 of our following League game.

What can we draw from this?
1) we are utterly crap in the FA Cup
2) our following League game seems to be just as bad so any notion of resting players (if that is what was done) didn't work..... so what was the point???!

2015 - Sheff Utd (h) Lost, next League game; Burnley (a) Lost
2016 - Forest (a) Lost, next League game; Blackburn (a) Drew
2017 - Blackburn (h) Lost, next League game; Reading (a) Won
2018 - MK Dons (h) Lost (MK fkin Dons!), next League game; Burton Albion (a) Won
2019 - Leeds (h) Won, next League game; Sheff Utd (a) Lost
2020 - Swansea (h) Won, next League game; Brentford (a) Lost
2021 - Fulham (h) Lost (aet), next League game; Luton (a) Won
2022 - Peterborough (a) Lost, next League game; Middlesbrough (h) Drew
2023 - Fleetwood (a) Lost, next League game; Reading (a) Drew
2024 - Bournemouth (h) Lost, next League game; Watford (h) Lost
2025 - Leicester (a) Lost, next League game; Plymouth (a) - ?

[Post edited 13 Jan 11:41]

Juzzie not sure we can take much from this as a 30% win rate is probably the level of the club over the last 10 years. Quite a few of those clubs have also been much higher placed than us and going for promotion.

I know people will moan if we fail to beat Plymouth, but we must move on now. I can't remember a single third round game in those 10yrs where we played our strongest XI.

A bit of perspective please! on 12:28 - Jan 13 with 1762 views

captainmycaptian

A bit of perspective please! on 11:50 - Jan 13 by QPR_John

Well let's see what happens on Saturday. Either way Wigan winning it doesn't inspire you or the players or the club or the owner or even the FA. I bet every Wigan fan willl remember that till they die. I understand that the clubs are a business but what is the point if its just to run at a loss and try stay where you are.. The year the mighty Wigan won the FA cup and then played in Europe!!!! I can only imagine seeing rangers play in Europe. Tamworth got pride out of that the fans will be back on a rainy night watching them because of days like that. If you don't understand that then why do you bother going ???

[Post edited 13 Jan 13:15]

A bit of perspective please! on 13:11 - Jan 13 with 1678 views

Juzzie

A bit of perspective please! on 11:50 - Jan 13 by QPR_John

I think that needs editing due to duplication!

Wigan were a PL team when they won it. They became the first team to win the FA Cup and get relegated from the top flight in the same season.

Last side to win it from outside the top flight was West Ham in 1980.

[Post edited 13 Jan 13:11]

A bit of perspective please! on 13:14 - Jan 13 with 1651 views

switchingcode

A bit of perspective please! on 09:55 - Jan 13 by Northernr
I mean Brentford have even less excuse. 11th in the league, miles away from problems or Europe, and you've got a team capable of actually winning the thing - a first ever major domestic trophy. And you do that with it? I'd be fuming.

That was my point

[Post edited 13 Jan 13:18]

A bit of perspective please! on 13:39 - Jan 13 with 1578 views

CamberleyR

I think in next year's FA Cup draw, they ought to just assign our number to 'bye'...

Poll:

Which is the worst QPR team?

A bit of perspective please! on 14:00 - Jan 13 with 1501 views

Juzzie

A bit of perspective please! on 09:17 - Jan 12 by hubble

What pisses me off is people telling other people how they should feel. I am personally fking fuming at that abject performance that was entirely due to Marti's team selection. If other people don't give a shit, fair enough, but don't tell those of us who are angry that we shouldn't be.

For me, I want my team to win every game, and I believe we should treat the world's oldest and greatest cup competition with the respect it deserves. The relatively recent trend of playing weakened sides in the FA Cup is just another nail in football's coffin as far as I'm concerned. It's the equivalent of Wilde's famous phrase: knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Conversely, don't tell (not you BTW, I'm generalising here) those who are not angry that they should be or at least can't understand why they are not.

Seen a lot of comments (not just this game but many others over time) where people can't believe that others aren't angry, it works both ways.

For my tuppence worth I've become a bit meh about the result. Not happy, of course, but trying to muster the energy to become all angry about a 'sport' that has been going down the pan for years is difficult.
Maybe if I'd been at the game I might feel different but that's why people can't be telling others or not understanding why others feel a different way to themselves, everyones situation & experience of the game is different.

Once I saw both team sheets I thought "oh well". Then at 1-1 I thought "oooh, hang on" then when I checked again not long after it was "3-1" and that was that. It seemed a really bizarre game and a rare occurrence where one team had 6 shots on target and they all went in.

I agree entirely with the whole premise of respecting the FA Cup but football is a mahoosive business these days and everything that goes with that has to be taken on board by the clubs. It's why they have reams of people employed with all sorts of data analytics etc. It's why VAR is such a mess, they are schit sacred of goals being given that shouldn't have it's almost better to wrongly not give a goal than wrongly give a goal.

[Post edited 13 Jan 14:48]

A bit of perspective please! on 14:10 - Jan 13 with 1469 views

spencer

I'm not sure what it is about our Cup competitions and our inability to produce a performance.

We played a team at the foot of the table , no real form against us, the second form team in our league... heading up the league and we get spanked .

My home town Bromley 12th in League two and manage to put in a great performance and only get beat 3-1 by high flying Newcastle ...

Our travelling fans deserve better than this. They travelled up there in the cold, at a time of the year when money really is tight.... and had to endure that . Hats off to them and other clubs away supporters who get treated like sh.te by thier clubs who show no passion / pride or have respect for travelling fans ... Oh a quick clap at the end of the game doesnt count IMO

A bit of perspective please! on 14:22 - Jan 13 with 1419 views

hoopedmonkey

A bit of perspective (slightly tongue in cheek). That team was for a large part made up of players who think they should/could be playing at a different level/club.

A bit of perspective please! on 15:14 - Jan 13 with 1330 views

QPR_John

A bit of perspective please! on 13:11 - Jan 13 by Juzzie
I think that needs editing due to duplication! Wigan were a PL team when they won it. They became the first team to win the FA Cup and get relegated from the top flight in the same season. Last side to win it from outside the top flight was West Ham in 1980. [Post edited 13 Jan 13:11]

Whoops. You are of course correct.

A bit of perspective please! on 15:24 - Jan 13 with 1301 views

ManinBlack

To be honest I don’t think we have fielded our strongest team in the cup for over 25 years. Look how often lower division teams have knocked us out in both cups. It seems to be club policy to field players who are not first choice in the cup no matter who the manager is. Even when clubs play their better players they don't play at the same level as they do in the league. It appears cup ties are not taken seriously until the 6th round.

Saturday, losing 6-2 was bad to a Premiership side, but is it worse than losing 2-1 to league 2 Fleetwood after being one up? We get these results because the club appears to have an attitude to accidentally lose on purpose when it comes to cup games. I love Marti but he made himself look like a lying politician by promising something in the lead up to Saturday and then doing the opposite on the day. The government make promises in electioneering but once in power do the opposite to what they said they will do.

When you look at our result and you see Watford losing 4-1 to Fulham, West Brom losing 5-1 to Bournemouth, Norwich losing 4-0 to Brighton and Swansea losing 3-0 to Southampton, who are worse than Leicester, then why is it? Yes there is a big gap in class but you have to question the attitudes of the Championship clubs who seem to want to get the cup over and done with to concentrate on making the play offs or avoiding relegation. Perhaps playing 46 games is seen as more than enough.

A bit of perspective please! on 15:30 - Jan 13 with 1287 views

QPR_John

A bit of perspective please! on 12:28 - Jan 13 by captainmycaptian

[Post edited 13 Jan 13:15]

I remember the play-off final, I remember the league cup final win, I remember the great players who have worn the hoops, I remember the team playing in Europe. We all have our memories of our club as do the Wigan supporters of theirs. I did not belittle the FA cup, I am just commenting on how I see the state of the FA cup. I would argue winning the play-off final, something we can aspire too, is just as memorable as winning the FA cup, something we have little hope of doing under its present format. How much of a memory for the Tamworth supporters to have seen a reply and their team play at Spurs.

[Post edited 13 Jan 15:32]

A bit of perspective please! on 16:03 - Jan 13 with 1194 views

kensalriser

A bit of perspective please! on 11:42 - Jan 13 by captainmycaptian
Well we might lose away to them. Which is more likely now. They will be full of confidence after their win and we will be down after that smashing. It has to have an effect [Post edited 13 Jan 11:45]

Historic results show that's not the case and we're just as likely to lose the next game after a cup win as a defeat.

We're quite capable of losing to teams at the bottom without a cup game the week before. Haven't we already done it at least once this season?

Poll:

QPR to finish 7th or Brentford to drop out of the top 6?

A bit of perspective please! on 16:11 - Jan 13 with 1173 views

ManinBlack

A bit of perspective please! on 16:03 - Jan 13 by kensalriser
Historic results show that's not the case and we're just as likely to lose the next game after a cup win as a defeat. We're quite capable of losing to teams at the bottom without a cup game the week before. Haven't we already done it at least once this season?

Yes our record against teams at the bottom is dubious with defeats to sides like Rotherham. Plymouth might be on a high now but that could change if they don't beat Oxford this week. One can only hope some of the Plymouth team will have one eye on playing Liverpool and not be so committed against us so they don't pick up injuries and miss out on playing Liverpool.

A bit of perspective please! on 17:32 - Jan 13 with 1030 views

PunteR

A bit of perspective please! on 07:42 - Jan 13 by BushRanger82
Couldn't agree more. It all boils down to a lack of pride. Both by the club, and worse still, even some fans.

Nothing to do with a lack of pride.

Occasional providers of half decent House music.

A bit of perspective please! on 20:32 - Jan 13 with 876 views

Ghost_on_the_Westway

Sorry, but 5 pages, gotta do it, it’s always been a trigger word …..

Too much. Too much fckin perspective.

Itch scratched.

A bit of perspective please! on 02:23 - Jan 14 with 705 views

switchingcode

A bit of perspective please! on 11:31 - Jan 13 by KensalT

[Post edited 14 Jan 9:16]

Apart from the fact it’s an 11 point gap you are spot on with your take on it.Its all about the money.Just seen a report that Salford are losing 75k a week wtf.

A bit of perspective please! on 09:40 - Jan 14 with 551 views

KensalT

A bit of perspective please! on 02:23 - Jan 14 by switchingcode
Apart from the fact it’s an 11 point gap you are spot on with your take on it.Its all about the money.Just seen a report that Salford are losing 75k a week wtf.

Mistake corrected - well spotted.

I was surprised no one pointed out that the prize money for PL positions excuse doesn't apply to us.

I did look for online info about prize money for EFL league positions but couldn't find any official statements on the subject - it seems we really are not allowed to know anything!!

The best I could find was a post on the subject on a Foxes forum from last season:

https://www.foxestalk.co.uk/topic/132060-the-championship-thread-20232024/page/3

The fifth post down by Lambert09 has a breakdown of the Championship prize money for last season.

I can't verify the details and have no guarantee it's correct, but it's all I could find so I will run with it.

If we had finished 12th last season we would have got £150,000.

If we had finished 16th last season we would have got £50,000.

(the difference between 12th and 16th in the PL is over £12m)

There isn't the same massive drop in earnings as the PL if a club has a go at the cups even if it means slipping a few places in the league.

So I can see why a mid-table PL club like Brentford might think it's a big risk, unless they can scrape their way to the QF with soft draws and then the chance of a day out at Wembley in the semis is on the horizon. Then you can please the fans and expect to make some decent money from a bumper gate and TV money.

But none of that explains why a mid-table Championship club wouldn't take a good run at the cup.

I guess there are lots of good reasons:
- no guarantee of getting past the third round
- 46 league games compared to the 38 the PL play
- Less squad depth and squad quality to cover for injuries to key players, etc

The state of the game is depressing, largely because it's all dominated by the interests of a few mega-rich clubs at the top who don't care less about anything but themselves.

[Post edited 14 Jan 9:51]

A bit of perspective please! on 12:39 - Jan 14 with 407 views

kensalriser

Again, no manager is getting the sack for losing a cup game, but they are very likely to be sacked for getting relegated or even being in or near the relegation zone. And getting sacked or relegated looks terrible on your CV, whereas half the teams in the third round get knocked out straight away. For Champ sides trying to buck that trend by playing their strongest side will still likely get knocked out in the fourth or fifth round anyway. The risk/reward ratio just isn't there.

Poll:

QPR to finish 7th or Brentford to drop out of the top 6?

A bit of perspective please! on 13:33 - Jan 14 with 329 views

Northernr

A bit of perspective please! on 12:39 - Jan 14 by kensalriser

While this is totally correct, I think the point made by others about mood/momentum/credit with supporters is valid.

McClaren, who people were already a bit meh about, made ten changes for a very winnable League Cup game at Blackpool, lost, then got hammered at Swansea on Saturday anyway. That pissd a lot of people off. He didn't last long.

Warburton, who people really quite liked, likewise with the Sheff Wed cup tie when, farcically, he rested a very in form Nahki Wells to play against us for Bristol City the following week. That burned off a lot of credit.

We've lost to Leicester, fine, we were probably gonna do that anyway with the team they put out. If we go and get good results at Plymouth and Hull it'll soon be forgotten. If we don't, and the defeats start stacking up again, then people will wonder why we were so keen to stop the momentum and good mood of the recent run. "The slide started at Leicester" etc etc.

This post has been edited by an administrator

A bit of perspective please! on 14:08 - Jan 14 with 224 views

GaryBannister86

A bit of perspective please! on 13:33 - Jan 14 by Northernr

Exactly. And if I remember right Warbs rested an in-form Willock at Peterboro in the 4th round that season. And it literally all went downhill from there.

We shall see.

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