| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden 21:21 - Aug 18 with 14345 views | numptydumpty |
Appreciate we have Field Colback Varane Dixon Bonner
Think people are asking this after Varanes first two games, EDB never quite hits the level as yet, and Colback and Field are walking yellow cards or worse.
Harsh to judge already !!!
If we could to bed in Varane as he develops this season.
I would offer Hayden a one year contract with option for a second that only we can trigger and delay his full wages, if an issue.
Appreciate he does not fit the profile currently but we have Cook as a role model for how this works within the defence.
It's a tough one but it is a key position as shown by the effect Colback had when he came on and filled in the Hayden role. |  |
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| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 09:29 - Aug 19 with 3604 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Have to trust our players to come good. We can't keep stacking players.
Besides which, I don't think our midfield concerns are purely about the players. I'm not sure what our tactics are either. |  |
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| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 09:34 - Aug 19 with 3573 views | cpgerber |
I don't think we've spent all our money yet. Celar in was straight swap for Sincs out.
We have an extra 5m from Sky money, I understand. Don't think we've used all of that on Varane and whoever we paid a fee for. |  | | |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 09:46 - Aug 19 with 3479 views | wombat |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 09:29 - Aug 19 by BrianMcCarthy |
Have to trust our players to come good. We can't keep stacking players.
Besides which, I don't think our midfield concerns are purely about the players. I'm not sure what our tactics are either. |
soak up pressure then hit fast on counter attach seems to be the way forward , dembele looks like hes got some space and good skill level same for saito, smythe so we need a solid center midfueld which is what kept us up last season , field then plays further forward to support. as we saw with colback on sat he wont be aval every game , varanne not rady to play every game from the start so leaves us with field and dixon bonner whos also not ready to play in that role , |  |
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| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 10:14 - Aug 19 with 3342 views | 1JD |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 22:02 - Aug 18 by dmm |
I'm sure Hayden would do well for us but I was hoping we'd get an 8 who can drive forward rather than another 6 to add to Varane, Field and Colback. |
I don’t believe Field or Colback are considered number 6s in a marti cifuentes side. Good off the ball, but very lacking on it - Ie. Unable to play out - receive back to goal, tight spaces, half turn etc.
Suspect they are both being considered for the left sided number 8 role, ie more of a box to box, energetic, pressing type. Neither are ideal for this role either, as still requires passing and goal scoring ability, and suspect long term both will be moved on.
Back to the number 6 role, that leaves only 1 x player in Varane. Wouldn’t be surprised to see another passing DCM come in to challenge. Hayden was excellent but again not great at playing out. |  | | |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 10:26 - Aug 19 with 3258 views | ngbqpr |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 09:46 - Aug 19 by wombat |
soak up pressure then hit fast on counter attach seems to be the way forward , dembele looks like hes got some space and good skill level same for saito, smythe so we need a solid center midfueld which is what kept us up last season , field then plays further forward to support. as we saw with colback on sat he wont be aval every game , varanne not rady to play every game from the start so leaves us with field and dixon bonner whos also not ready to play in that role , |
...but the club has paid to sign Varanne and extend EDB's contract. Also Field signed a contract extension recently; and we're committed to another year of Colback.
We can't afford to rack & stack. |  |
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| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 11:07 - Aug 19 with 3078 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 10:14 - Aug 19 by 1JD |
I don’t believe Field or Colback are considered number 6s in a marti cifuentes side. Good off the ball, but very lacking on it - Ie. Unable to play out - receive back to goal, tight spaces, half turn etc.
Suspect they are both being considered for the left sided number 8 role, ie more of a box to box, energetic, pressing type. Neither are ideal for this role either, as still requires passing and goal scoring ability, and suspect long term both will be moved on.
Back to the number 6 role, that leaves only 1 x player in Varane. Wouldn’t be surprised to see another passing DCM come in to challenge. Hayden was excellent but again not great at playing out. |
Agree with all of this, 1JD. Excellent analysis.
Just not sure we'll sign another mid, but if we do I agree it should be someone who can get us playing out through centre-mid. | |
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| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 11:31 - Aug 19 with 2923 views | Gloucs_R |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 08:59 - Aug 19 by dmm |
The South Korean midfielder you mention is Ho-yeon Jeong. Where did you see the latest link? His contract is up at the end of 2024 so perhaps we'd wait and sign him on a free. |
Korean Journalist called Joel Kim. No idea if he is legit or not though. |  |
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| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 11:34 - Aug 19 with 2940 views | ed_83 |
Right now, we clearly need him - Field and EDB have started the season unexpectedly poorly, Colback’s had yet another of his brainfarts, and Varane’s getting up to speed.
But ultimately I agree with the people saying we’ve picked a model, so we should stick with it. Even if we could get Hayden on a decent wage, and even if he’s brilliant for us for a season or two, he’d still inevitably be leaving on a free when he’s 33. We’ve already got that with Colback and Cook - can we afford a third, particularly given that he’s likely to be on a much higher wage at Newcastle?
I think the litmus test here is imagining the players we’ve got returned to a decent level of form, then asking if we’d still need more bodies. I think a fully firing Field and Varane, with Colback and EDB as backup, would mean we don’t need Hayden - in which case we probably shouldn’t sign him. | | | |
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| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 11:34 - Aug 19 with 2940 views | A_B_4 |
Personally, I would take him back in an instant. I have been saying all summer I think he is the single biggest loss from last year’s team.
I also think long term he could do a role as a CB and eventually replace Cook there. He has great size and can play a ball which Marti seems to want in his defenders. He also comes across as a good pro and natural leader – the importance of which cannot be underestimated as we try to build a younger squad.
I can’t see the offer in the OP being too attractive to him. He’s 29 and an established name in the league. If he’s available on a free he will have far better options available to him than to hand over all long term security to the club on what is essentially a ‘prove it’ deal.
As long as he’s with Newcastle though I think we have a great chance of picking him up. Once he’s paid off and free to go to the highest bidder – I assume there would be many suiters for him – I’m afraid we would likely be blown out of the water on wages. Hopefully Reuben is willing to do Amit another favour with a loan deal or structure his pay off in such a way that it supplements our offer to him.
He was happy here last season and that can’t be overlooked. He has never really had the opportunity to play regular first team football. At 29 he’s got little over 200 appearances to his name which for a player of his quality amazes me. If he is bought into Marti’s vision, wants to remain close to his family and know for the next 2/3 years he’ll be playing week in / week out hopefully we can work something out that benefits all parties. |  | | |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 11:56 - Aug 19 with 2848 views | sprocket |
I'd be amazed if QPR don't take him back. Varane has something about him but he was like a rabbit in headlights on Saturday - gotta hope he comes up to speed quickly. Kolli and Lloyd gotta be sent out in loan??? which would free up some funds. | | | |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 12:06 - Aug 19 with 2805 views | qprninja |
I think you'll see him sign for a Saudi team at the end of the month, I heard he was out there during the summer. quite possibly his last chance to pick up a decent contract, which I don't think QPR will be able to match. Shame, as we were quite obviously a better side with him in it. Fingers crossed though.... |  | | |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 12:51 - Aug 19 with 2592 views | BostonR |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 22:40 - Aug 18 by Northernr |
Going against everything I've previously said, yes I think we do. |
Do you think Marti wants him?
Given how he improved the existing squad when he arrived, I'm thinking it is not beyond him to make improvements to players we already have. Should we patient? |  | | |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 13:29 - Aug 19 with 2388 views | BklynRanger |
I think it comes down to how they assess Varane at this point.
He played 39 times for Sporting Gijon last season, and they finished 5th, so he's used to playing. But what do they think he needs to do to make the transition, how long might that take, etc? Not easy questions of course.
Hooking someone at half time doesn't seem like the sort of thing Marti would do lightly, up till now at least. If Varane needs to be introduced much more slowly than anticipated then we do need cover. |  | | |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 13:52 - Aug 19 with 2248 views | 1JD |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 13:29 - Aug 19 by BklynRanger |
I think it comes down to how they assess Varane at this point.
He played 39 times for Sporting Gijon last season, and they finished 5th, so he's used to playing. But what do they think he needs to do to make the transition, how long might that take, etc? Not easy questions of course.
Hooking someone at half time doesn't seem like the sort of thing Marti would do lightly, up till now at least. If Varane needs to be introduced much more slowly than anticipated then we do need cover. |
Varane played 39 times in total for Gjon across 2 seasons. Last season he made only 5 starts with 17 sub appearances. So he’s hardly played any senior men’s football. He’ll need a lot of game time and adjustments to the pace of the championship. | | | |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 13:55 - Aug 19 with 2224 views | francisbowles |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 13:29 - Aug 19 by BklynRanger |
I think it comes down to how they assess Varane at this point.
He played 39 times for Sporting Gijon last season, and they finished 5th, so he's used to playing. But what do they think he needs to do to make the transition, how long might that take, etc? Not easy questions of course.
Hooking someone at half time doesn't seem like the sort of thing Marti would do lightly, up till now at least. If Varane needs to be introduced much more slowly than anticipated then we do need cover. |
Part of the reason he was hooked was that he was on a yellow card. | | | |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 14:15 - Aug 19 with 2145 views | sprocket |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 13:55 - Aug 19 by francisbowles |
Part of the reason he was hooked was that he was on a yellow card. |
This. Marti always does this however Varane was at fault for both goals albeit not the only one! | | | |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 14:18 - Aug 19 with 2134 views | WestonsuperR |
We currently have plenty of options in CM, need to give EDB and Varane more of a chance, if we get Hayden in he potentially blocks opportunities. If EDB does go on loan then maybe but comes down to costs, age and injury record a concern, also have nagging doubts as Norwich fans didn’t rate him at all. |  | | |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 14:47 - Aug 19 with 2028 views | Tonto |
Let's not write off Varane after 3 halves of football for us...
If we have spare cash I would rather get a left back. |  |
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| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 14:54 - Aug 19 with 2006 views | ngbqpr |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 14:47 - Aug 19 by Tonto |
Let's not write off Varane after 3 halves of football for us...
If we have spare cash I would rather get a left back. |
...yep, left back arguably the only position where we don't have any cover.
Some people may not rate all the cover we have in other positions, but left back is the only one with no one obvious to step in if the first choice gets injured. | |
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| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 15:05 - Aug 19 with 1970 views | Maggsinho |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 14:54 - Aug 19 by ngbqpr |
...yep, left back arguably the only position where we don't have any cover.
Some people may not rate all the cover we have in other positions, but left back is the only one with no one obvious to step in if the first choice gets injured. |
Morgan Fox will be LB cover as it stands. We're still after Beck on loan from Liverpool as far as I know too. |  | | |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 15:13 - Aug 19 with 1922 views | ngbqpr |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 15:05 - Aug 19 by Maggsinho |
Morgan Fox will be LB cover as it stands. We're still after Beck on loan from Liverpool as far as I know too. |
Good point, had forgotten Fox can double up as cover for two positions tbf. | |
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| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 15:41 - Aug 19 with 1874 views | numptydumpty |
Thanks for replies all.
Yes totally get ideally we need to follow the model.
I understood Newcastle could consider a deal that terminated Haydens transfer fee, ie his contract is until the end of next season currently with Newcastle, so could enable sales as just opposed to another season long loan, which I heard Newcastle, ideally don't wish to loan Hayden anymore.
He is not old by way of comparison in relation to Colback and Cook, who i believe are 34 and 33.
Hayden is 29.
It's all about his long term wages and length of contract that are the variables that could prevent this signing.
He could be the long term replacement for Colback, who won't be with us for long and if Field leaves also. Would not be preventing EDB and Varanes long term game time.
He could very well be a ready made Varane, that we all know about and it seems this role is crucial to the team. An unseen role at times but hugely important.
If we could somehow offload Colback and get the best deal possible for Hayden, that obviously also suits him. He clearly from all the noises, I have heard wants to come here.
However, I think his contract should be maximum of two years as we rather got our fingers burnt with Johansen who was 29 himself when he signed.
I think Hayden could be the senior head who carries on performing at decent fitness levels, more so than Johansen potentialy could have achieved.
He would be more along the lines of the senior pro in midfield a la Steve Cook.
But I don't think he will be coming here myself.
We are tight for money. We already have Varane as the Apprentice for this role. We have three others for this role currently.
If money wasn't an issue, I would get Hayden in as soon as, as we know he can do the job. Yes there are potential fitness issues and the only red flag I have is, is that he has not played massive amounts of games throughout his career so would his signing be value for money.
It's a key role.
I don't think Hayden will be here but if it is decided we need another body in this position then I feel we would be looking at a cheaper younger version.
Saying all that if money wasn't a thing, I would be signing him up all day long and possibly loaning out EDB.
Maybe a loan is in place potentially if Newcastle cannot sell Hayden this window, so if he is coming in, it would be announced at the end of the transfer window, other variables considered. [Post edited 19 Aug 15:45]
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| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 16:02 - Aug 19 with 1799 views | QPROslo |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 15:05 - Aug 19 by Maggsinho |
Morgan Fox will be LB cover as it stands. We're still after Beck on loan from Liverpool as far as I know too. |
Anyone know how long Fox will be out? I remember him being out a long time last season so with Paal possibly moving on another LB is the priority position I think. | | | |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 18:43 - Aug 19 with 1567 views | Burnleyhoop |
Struggling to understand why EDB was given a contract extension as he never seems to get the nod, although his below par performance at Cambridge highlighted his weaknesses. Will he ever be ready to step up, as it seems to me he is absolutely a last resort measure.
Varane needs time, but he won’t get much, so he needs to get his head around the pace and physicality of the Championship….sharpish. | | | |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 19:54 - Aug 19 with 1364 views | dmm |
| Centre Mid - do we need Hayden on 18:43 - Aug 19 by Burnleyhoop |
Struggling to understand why EDB was given a contract extension as he never seems to get the nod, although his below par performance at Cambridge highlighted his weaknesses. Will he ever be ready to step up, as it seems to me he is absolutely a last resort measure.
Varane needs time, but he won’t get much, so he needs to get his head around the pace and physicality of the Championship….sharpish. |
I think that's a bit harsh on EDB. Yes, he was poor against Cambridge but so were most of the team and he's had much better games than that.
He's still developing and is a needed cover player in the squad. |  | | |
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