| Scunthorpe 21:14 - Sep 20 with 20630 views | blackdogblue |
Omfg… I thought our “neighbours” chairman says it as is after a beer…
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| Scunthorpe on 11:28 - Sep 30 with 2686 views | 442Dale |
At the fans meeting before the Bromley game five weeks ago (25th August), the issue was raised about having plans for different outcomes. Trust members had contacted them directly about this ahead of the meeting as well.
This was reported in their September newsletter:
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2023/09/trust-newsletter-september/
<<“ 4) Trust Planning for Plan B, Plan C etc
One of the things that have been raised with the Trust over the past couple of weeks is the need for the Trust to be actively prepared for any eventuality. The finances at the Club have been discussed a great deal over the course of the past month along with the reasons for the loan to be agreed by two Dale directors. One thing the loan will not be repeated and the Trust needs to be three or four steps down the road should we find ourselves in a situation where we find ourselves in a situation where the Club needs to find a similar sum in the future. Equally, we are now eight months into the search for an outside investor to come into the Club without success. We as a Trust have been asked by members to look into a situation where we may need to look at purchasing the unsold shares. Please note, this is all about the Trust preparing for hypothetical situations and isn’t a way of drip feeding information into the public domain.”>>
A request was made directly to the Trust after the meeting concluded for a further meeting to be arranged to specifically follow up on this subject. The focus of the request was to not let too much time pass without at least trying to firm up those plans, especially as there was obviously fan interest to play a part - as shown by the turnout before the Bromley game. It was suggested it could take place before a forthcoming home game as we were due to play Halifax and Barnet on a Saturday over the following three weeks.
To date, with another home game taking place today, there has, unless I’ve missed it, been no further update via the Trust site on progress around this planning or a proposed date for a meeting. Hopefully, something will be arranged soon. |  |
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| Scunthorpe on 12:20 - Sep 30 with 2600 views | Dalenet |
| Scunthorpe on 09:51 - Sep 30 by TalkingSutty |
Fans did favour going down the investor route though whether you like it or not. The Trust balloted their members and I think it was something like 92% in favour of bringing in outside investors. The Trust Committee are therefore rightly representing their members. You're playing with words when you suggest that consent was not actually the same as being in favour. It was certainly preferable to them voting the opposite. Not everybody agreed that at the time the only way to run the club was to bring in outside investors, some preferred to explore the options of fans running the club and perhaps re-setting the club. Even the current Chairman adhering to his Churchilian speech about how they will get the club running efficiently and maximising every revenue stream..they never even gave that idea a chance.
I don't see how things can ever be stable with outside investors pulling the strings. As you suggest, we are now at the mercy of the Chairman and Directors, that's a sad reflection on the fanbase in general when you think of the incredible fight everybody put up to keep the club in our own hands. We went overnight from being a fan owned club with great plans of getting the club firing on all cylinders, to one that was suddenly up for sale to outside investors. With no consultation with the Trust or shareholders, that was a disgrace. At that moment the Chairman and Directors theoretically could do what they wanted with the club and that's still the case now. There are very few fans or shareholders voicing their concerns though and it's disappointing. [Post edited 30 Sep 2023 9:59]
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Did we vote for it or did we vote for the directors putting more cash in to manage cash flow whilst there was a gun held to your head , I.e. we would go bust if they didn't.
You have been consistent in your thinking TS and have long held a view that an EGM should be called to get rid of the Chairman. If the fans want to own the club in full they need to buy the directors out. It's one heck of a fund raise to do that. Then we need to find ways to raise another million in revenue every year. I wish we were Exeter with 7,000 fans and decent revenue levels. But we are not. Do you think we could do it? The Trust clearly don't. I don't know what the answer is to be honest |  | | |
| Scunthorpe on 12:29 - Sep 30 with 2575 views | TyroneShoelaces |
It’s alright having all of the questions TS. But where’s your answers ?
Think it was Richard Knight that said at either the fans forum or EGM
That he’d be a lot happier sat asking the questions rather than answering
them. The shareholders have every right to oust this board as they did
with the last one. If that’s what you want then rally the shareholders
and vote them off. There are plenty plenty on here who ‘say’ they can
do a better job so perhaps now is the time for them to step forward.
Not sure this board would go meekly as they have so much money tied
up in shares and now loans | | | |
| Scunthorpe on 12:40 - Sep 30 with 2549 views | 442Dale |
Not sure why the conversation moves towards changing the board, it’s always been about ensuring whoever the board is at any time are working as effectively as possible and moving the club forward.
There was a real opportunity to move forward as a ‘fan owned club’. There was a decision to move away from that without even maximising the skills and enthusiasm of the fanbase. The timeline still makes little sense.
However, that doesn’t mean we can’t still look to change and improve. As it was in the Bottomley/Dunphy/Kilpatrick eras, the fans can make a difference if the club are willing to accept help and constructive criticism. | |
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| Scunthorpe on 13:07 - Sep 30 with 2512 views | D_Alien |
| Scunthorpe on 09:51 - Sep 30 by TalkingSutty |
Fans did favour going down the investor route though whether you like it or not. The Trust balloted their members and I think it was something like 92% in favour of bringing in outside investors. The Trust Committee are therefore rightly representing their members. You're playing with words when you suggest that consent was not actually the same as being in favour. It was certainly preferable to them voting the opposite. Not everybody agreed that at the time the only way to run the club was to bring in outside investors, some preferred to explore the options of fans running the club and perhaps re-setting the club. Even the current Chairman adhering to his Churchilian speech about how they will get the club running efficiently and maximising every revenue stream..they never even gave that idea a chance.
I don't see how things can ever be stable with outside investors pulling the strings. As you suggest, we are now at the mercy of the Chairman and Directors, that's a sad reflection on the fanbase in general when you think of the incredible fight everybody put up to keep the club in our own hands. We went overnight from being a fan owned club with great plans of getting the club firing on all cylinders, to one that was suddenly up for sale to outside investors. With no consultation with the Trust or shareholders, that was a disgrace. At that moment the Chairman and Directors theoretically could do what they wanted with the club and that's still the case now. There are very few fans or shareholders voicing their concerns though and it's disappointing. [Post edited 30 Sep 2023 9:59]
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"Whether i like it or not?"
You need to re-read my post. The objective of the Trust ballot was to secure consent for it to agree to support the board in going down the investor route
CONSENT does NOT mean "in favour" in the sense of "preferred option" - it just means "we don't object" - and that whilst having a gun held to our heads (liquidation)
It may be a subtle difference, but it's an important one
I hope that's clear enough this time
[Post edited 30 Sep 2023 13:15]
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| Scunthorpe on 13:11 - Sep 30 with 2493 views | dalemark |
'Football is broken' might very well be true - but it cannot be used as a smokescreen by the current board when they are actively choosing to not engage with the fanbase, actively choosing not to drive improvements and revenue throughout the club, and actively choosing to say one thing and do another to their paying customers.
When all of the above changes for the better, and we are still in the mire, then and only then can we say we are where we are because 'football is broken'. |  | | |
| Scunthorpe on 14:04 - Sep 30 with 2383 views | TalkingSutty |
| Scunthorpe on 11:20 - Sep 30 by NorthernDale |
Football is in a financial mess, we can all speculate on the reasons, from wages to poor management of clubs and I am not sure, what is the remedy. The FA, EFL and Premiership need to work together with the fans and PFA to develop a strategy to save the game. The premiership need to understand that the system needs clubs like the Dale, Scunthorpe and the Morecambe's of this world to sustain the game in the long-term. When will they act, if a big club like, Wednesday went belly-up would they act then? The debt in football is spiralling upwards every year and even teams in the Premiership are not immune from the issue of rising debt. As I said, I am not sure what the answer is, but some form of solution needs to developed. |
Yet there are clubs with far less support than us who are being run very well in the same league as us. Not every club has rich sugar daddies or are looking at liquidation. Very few own their own stadium like we do neither. So why are we the exception in the lower leagues, probably because the club isnt being run right. If as a club we had really tried to run the club correctly with everybody pulling their weight in the boardroom, alongside the Trust and the fans then i would probably be more accepting when it comes to throwing the towel in and saying we can't take the club any further. Have we really seen that though? Have we seen all potential revenue streams explored? Have we reached out to local businesses and the public? Have we seen a Boardroom that is united and reaching out to the Trust and fans in a effort to unite everybody and work as one? If we'd done all of that and given our club every chance of succeeding then i'd fall into line but we haven't have we, we've gone for the easy option of trying to find somebody with money to burn to invest in the club. While we wait the club gets weaker and weaker.
The Chairman and Directors have admitted they can't take the club any further, at that point the Trust and shareholders should be calling a EGM with a view to sourcing a new boardroom with people who think they can do better or at least try. Wouldn't that be a natural thing to do in any business? |  | | |
| Scunthorpe on 14:10 - Sep 30 with 2367 views | TalkingSutty |
| Scunthorpe on 12:29 - Sep 30 by TyroneShoelaces |
It’s alright having all of the questions TS. But where’s your answers ?
Think it was Richard Knight that said at either the fans forum or EGM
That he’d be a lot happier sat asking the questions rather than answering
them. The shareholders have every right to oust this board as they did
with the last one. If that’s what you want then rally the shareholders
and vote them off. There are plenty plenty on here who ‘say’ they can
do a better job so perhaps now is the time for them to step forward.
Not sure this board would go meekly as they have so much money tied
up in shares and now loans |
I've never seen anybody say they can do a better job, can you find that post please. Those in the Boardroom have admitted they've taken the club as far as they can. At that point should the Trust and shareholders not be calling a EGM to try to source another Chairman and Directors or look at taking the club in another direction? The Chairman and Directors have held their hands up and been very honest, theres nothing more they can do to run the club..at that point shouldn't the Trust and Shareholders then get involved? | | | |
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| Scunthorpe on 14:14 - Sep 30 with 2362 views | TalkingSutty |
| Scunthorpe on 12:20 - Sep 30 by Dalenet |
Did we vote for it or did we vote for the directors putting more cash in to manage cash flow whilst there was a gun held to your head , I.e. we would go bust if they didn't.
You have been consistent in your thinking TS and have long held a view that an EGM should be called to get rid of the Chairman. If the fans want to own the club in full they need to buy the directors out. It's one heck of a fund raise to do that. Then we need to find ways to raise another million in revenue every year. I wish we were Exeter with 7,000 fans and decent revenue levels. But we are not. Do you think we could do it? The Trust clearly don't. I don't know what the answer is to be honest |
We don't have to buy the Directors shares out, there are another 500 people with shares also. Yes the fans did vote to go down the investors route, i was reminded of that by the supporters trust. Everybody uniting as one, including those in the Boardroom sounds like a novel idea but it's one that should have happened at the moment the club became fan owned. Instead we've allowed a 'us and them' to take over and we are now powerless as fans. Look at selling the stadium, relocating, maybe playing further down the pyramid, those in the Boardroom are fans so they could come on the journey with us and help. Kick start the club again as a proper fan owned and run club. A lot of planning and hard work I know but we would be rowing our own boat. Anyway, I'm shouting in the wind so I'll leave it at that. [Post edited 30 Sep 2023 14:40]
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| Scunthorpe on 14:39 - Sep 30 with 2317 views | blackdogblue |
Didn’t the club (or board) engage some consultancy firm to help assess the current & future situation I read somewhere a long time ago, I’m sure I haven’t dreamt it…
What was the outcome of that or did they just drive off laughing with a big bag of money saying your fookin doomed and need a miracle rather than advice? | |
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| Scunthorpe on 15:19 - Sep 30 with 2259 views | James1980 |
| Scunthorpe on 14:39 - Sep 30 by blackdogblue |
Didn’t the club (or board) engage some consultancy firm to help assess the current & future situation I read somewhere a long time ago, I’m sure I haven’t dreamt it…
What was the outcome of that or did they just drive off laughing with a big bag of money saying your fookin doomed and need a miracle rather than advice? |
'None of your business' | |
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| Scunthorpe on 16:16 - Sep 30 with 2197 views | blackdogblue |
| Scunthorpe on 15:19 - Sep 30 by James1980 |
'None of your business' |
Why? | |
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| Scunthorpe on 16:18 - Sep 30 with 2195 views | James1980 |
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| Scunthorpe on 18:18 - Sep 30 with 2116 views | blackdogblue |
Back on thread… no wonder he’s fooked off & fook off James bringing the country to a standstill again 😎
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| Scunthorpe on 17:45 - Oct 3 with 1680 views | James1980 |
Good news for them although why so little information about the chap heading the consortium, why do other members of said consortium not want to be named at this point in the precedings? | |
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| Scunthorpe on 20:28 - Oct 3 with 1526 views | D_Alien |
Southend 2-0 up already
They'll easily survive in this league despite the 10pt penalty, might even see themselves with a playoff hope | |
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| Scunthorpe on 21:40 - Oct 3 with 1429 views | Rodingdale |
The pause in criticism the board have enjoyed with our relative ‘success’ on the pitch - is coming to an end. If we fans continue to accept the dross off and on the pitch, we deserve what we get. The slow or maybe not that slow death of our club. Time to get active before it’s too late. | | | |
| Scunthorpe on 21:51 - Oct 3 with 1410 views | 442Dale |
Results on the pitch should never mean those who can effect change take their eyes off what’s going on off it.
Unfortunately that’s happened time and again over the years and it’s another reason why we are where we are.
Allow time to pass, allows complacency and dismissiveness to develop. A football club always knows this. | |
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| Scunthorpe on 16:04 - Oct 4 with 1167 views | 49thseason |
| Scunthorpe on 21:51 - Oct 3 by 442Dale |
Results on the pitch should never mean those who can effect change take their eyes off what’s going on off it.
Unfortunately that’s happened time and again over the years and it’s another reason why we are where we are.
Allow time to pass, allows complacency and dismissiveness to develop. A football club always knows this. |
We are where we are because the cost of playing professional football has gone up beyond our capacity to fund it from crowds of around 2000+ and a town that has never supported the club in large numbers.
With that in mind the board has decided the only option is to pass the parcel to someone with more money than common sense and seemingly are finding it hard to find such a person.... what a surprise!
If the search for investment fails, there does not seem to be a plan B and that is where the Trust needs to focus. There are ways and means of creating income from the Dale brand without the need for people to come to matches, although it would be great if they did... and many of them have been discussed here. These things need seed funding and enthusiastic participation, both elements that the Trust can bring to bear.
Clubs simply cannot survive on someone elses money indefinitely. Our club has to become self sufficient and we should be concentrating our efforts there. There is no certainty of an investor and even if there were, we still need to build alternative streams of income. |  | | |
| Scunthorpe on 16:28 - Oct 4 with 1137 views | ChaffRAFC |
Southend and Scunthorpe get takeovers while we're shaking buckets in the Ratcliffe.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
| If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor |
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| Scunthorpe on 16:46 - Oct 4 with 1103 views | James1980 |
| Scunthorpe on 16:28 - Oct 4 by ChaffRAFC |
Southend and Scunthorpe get takeovers while we're shaking buckets in the Ratcliffe.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Nobody wants us 😭😭😭😭😭😭 On a serious note why are we not an attractive proposition for a serious investor? | |
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| Scunthorpe on 16:58 - Oct 4 with 1080 views | 442Dale |
| Scunthorpe on 16:04 - Oct 4 by 49thseason |
We are where we are because the cost of playing professional football has gone up beyond our capacity to fund it from crowds of around 2000+ and a town that has never supported the club in large numbers.
With that in mind the board has decided the only option is to pass the parcel to someone with more money than common sense and seemingly are finding it hard to find such a person.... what a surprise!
If the search for investment fails, there does not seem to be a plan B and that is where the Trust needs to focus. There are ways and means of creating income from the Dale brand without the need for people to come to matches, although it would be great if they did... and many of them have been discussed here. These things need seed funding and enthusiastic participation, both elements that the Trust can bring to bear.
Clubs simply cannot survive on someone elses money indefinitely. Our club has to become self sufficient and we should be concentrating our efforts there. There is no certainty of an investor and even if there were, we still need to build alternative streams of income. |
At the last meeting between the Trust and supporters before the Bromley game on the 25th August, there was an obvious commitment from fans to progress looking at planning for different scenarios.
See my post at 12.40 on Sep 30th on this page.
In the latest Trust newsletter it states this:
<<“ Though in its very early days, the Trust is looking at what we could do should action be needed, and we stress here it's a planning consultation we are working on which hopefully we may never need to do, and will outline further in later newsletters”>>
Why hasn’t a specific meeting been called to discuss this situation and involving supporters as part of the “planning consultation”, especially as a meeting was requested immediately following the one on the 25th August to capitalise on the offers of support from those present? That’s nearly six weeks gone, or 10% of a year.
The supporter meetings in April and May illustrated the “enthusiastic participation” of fans to make progress off the field. It is now October.
The point of my post was that despite this, the meandering nature of any subsequent progress illustrates, yet again, that not much changes at Spotland when compared to all the times before more should have been done when results are ok on the pitch.
The problem is, when we do win a few, focus shifts even further away from what needs to improve and it requires a significant change in approach to address it. The shouting starts again after a couple of defeats.
For an example, see the posts in this thread regarding the Volunteer Army meeting planned for last Thursday.
Volunteer Army focus group meeting by 442Dale 23 Sep 2023 11:08Meant to be next Thursday? Does anyone have any details of where this will take place or whether fans have been approached to register interest? Can’t see anything on the Trust site and not spotted anything on the club site, but may have missed it on there.
When you consider the amount of work done by supporters and the Trust back in April/May, and for a club that has been open about the financial limitations at present, following up in agreed actions that could actually help this situation is vital.
If only to ensure we aren’t demoralising a supporter base that is all too used to such lip service.
From the Trust Newsletter at the start of September:
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2023/09/trust-newsletter-september/
<<“Volunteer Army meeting
The Club will be holding a meeting on Thursday 28th September with regard to the much talked about Volunteer Army. We are currently working on a few things in preparation for this, and we are in talks with the Club regarding the format for this, whether to host a face to face meeting or to host it via Zoom. We will get details of this within the next few days.
We will follow this up with a report of the meeting within a couple of days of the meeting with next steps.”>>
This was agreed with the club back in June:
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2023/06/fan-engagement-programme-for-23-24/
After our relegation at Stockport the club stated they would be “working tirelessly” towards “reengaging our fantastic supporters”. https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2023/april/clubupdate_220423/
Hopefully, it’s something we’ve all missed and someone has details of how fans can attend the meeting planned for next Thursday.
We heard nothing until the day before when it was announced it had been rescheduled to this week, except there was no acknowledgement of why it was moved in the article on the OS.
The Trust themselves commented on the change in date in their newsletter:
<<“ This Thursday sees the first meeting of the much heralded Volunteer Army. It was meant to have been held last Thursday but was postponed a week at our request.”>>
So no actual reason relayed to members as to why the Trust requested that change. Presumably the Trust will have representation tomorrow evening that may cover this, as well as obviously explaining what they took forward from the fans meetings five months ago (this would obviously be brought up during the first part of the meeting detailed in the link on the OS).
Hopefully it will be a positive evening, the amount of time since the meetings were arranged (July) should mean it’s a very detailed plan of action which will allow fans to contribute further and make a difference.
Will you be attending the meeting, 49thseason? You have a lot of positive ideas that could be discussed in the second part of the meeting, though you’d expect many to be covered in the first half with the club being able to tap into all the info collated by the Trust back in May. [Post edited 4 Oct 2023 16:59]
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| Scunthorpe on 17:00 - Oct 4 with 1067 views | dalemark |
| Scunthorpe on 16:28 - Oct 4 by ChaffRAFC |
Southend and Scunthorpe get takeovers while we're shaking buckets in the Ratcliffe.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
In the Trust newsletter, Murray mentions a stumbling block being our timeline differing from that of prospective investors... what that doesn't say is if we want to go faster or slower than those investors.
From the outside looking in, there are a few options why it isn't happening for us...
- We're such a basket case financially its not worth it (but we can't be as bad as others surely?)
- Our threshold of 'the right person' is perceived to be too high, and it puts people off
- Our chairman / board are difficult to do business with
There is clearly an issue, and the £350K secured loan isn't guaranteed to be enough to see the season out. We're selling names on bricks for £80+ (not in itself a bad idea) before honouring earlier commitments (volunteer army, season card prize draw, team photo, 3rd kit launch) so that appears to be a desperate attempt to get more cash in now... how bad actually is it? & what can we actually do as fans at this point? It feels bleak, and as fans it feels like we can't drive change - we're at the mercy of those in the boardroom. [Post edited 4 Oct 2023 17:03]
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| Scunthorpe on 17:11 - Oct 4 with 1041 views | blackdogblue |
That is some walk away with not a penny & still a mountain to climb | |
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