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For the sake of Clives sanity 21:25 - Sep 16 with 18014 views

ChrisNW6

Can we avoid a Russell Brand thread 😁..... remember this is definitely not a RB thread

For the sake of Clives sanity on 20:51 - Sep 17 with 2792 views

E17hoop

Because. Women's. Voices. Aren't. Listened. To.

1 in 4 women in this country will be raped and half will have been assaulted sexually. That includes flashing, inappropriate touching, and unwanted physical advances. There are insufficient police resources to manage the current demand yet we're saying women can't talk about it unless they've reported it to the police. The police who are employing over 1500 officers who have been accused of sexual offences and those officers are not suspended.

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For the sake of Clives sanity (n/t) on 22:21 - Sep 17 with 2635 views

nix

For the sake of Clives sanity on 17:31 - Sep 17 by PlanetHonneywood

Not wishing to rake over old coals, but on a previous contentious footballer rape allegations thread, I said the single most important thing, is having a process that's as good as it has to be. to ensure: complainants can come forward in confidence; the accused get a fair hearing, and whatever the outcome, we are confident that justice has been properly served.

Hard to see how trials by and through the media will serve such aims.

[Post edited 17 Sep 2023 22:33]

For the sake of Clives sanity on 22:45 - Sep 17 with 2602 views

PlanetHonneywood

For the sake of Clives sanity (n/t) on 22:21 - Sep 17 by nix
[Post edited 17 Sep 2023 22:33]

And this is where things start to go awry, when people don't read a post properly before pressing reply. Suggest you reread what I said and on the other thread, and nowhere have I said the processes are perfect.

Of course it's about people, duh! However, thereafter, its very much about the processes and if complainants can't or won't go to investigator and prosecutorial services over the media, then that's got big problems written large which I'm sure you can work out; and which is what I said!

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For the sake of Clives sanity on 23:35 - Sep 17 with 2542 views

BazzaInTheLoft

I’ll keep my own view to myself for once, which is based solely on that Dispatches documentary, for the sake of keeping this thread civil but here are two statements which commentators think are mutually exclusive but aren’t:

1. The media are not good faith actors

2. Russell Brand could be a sexual predator

[Post edited 17 Sep 2023 23:43]

For the sake of Clives sanity on 00:12 - Sep 18 with 2489 views

daveB

For the sake of Clives sanity on 08:24 - Sep 17 by thame_hoops
All I will say before the thread is deleted, if you feel somebody committed a crime against you, go through the proper Channels and report it. Let the CPS deal with it. From what I saw on TV last night, was not the right way to do things. In my opinion.

Women tried that with Jimmy Saville and several others but nothing happend for years until tv shows exposed him

For the sake of Clives sanity on 00:42 - Sep 18 with 2442 views

Wegerles_Stairs

Watching it at the moment. Just had a former runner on Big Brother on saying he got his cock out and asked for a blow job, but she declined. However, she ended up having sex with him at a later date. Now she feels like she was groomed - really????? She was of a legal age and chose to sleep with him - she may regret that now but it was consensual.

The alleged rape and sexual assaults are obviously different but the documentary is diminished by framing consensual sex as something that it isn't.

For the sake of Clives sanity on 01:50 - Sep 18 with 2403 views

loftupper

For the sake of Clives sanity on 17:34 - Sep 17 by E15Hoop

But if I'm not mistaken, the women involved haven't actually gone to the police before with their allegations , so the criminal justice system in this case hasn't been given the opportunity to deal with this specific issue.

BTW, I'm not in any way suggesting that their allegations should not be taken seriously, especially given the weight of some of the evidence as I posted earlier, but how is the media able to get hold of this and run with it purely for its own egrandissement before we've even had the proper legal process?

It may be that the investigation is trying to piece together a pattern of behaviour (which is ridiculous given who it is) in order to put a case together. The victims not coming forward individually should be no indication that crimes were not committed.

I would imagine that all the material gathered over the 5 years they have been looking into this has been handed over to the police and the gradual publication / release of updates by the times is more about them making back some money to pay for the work they put in.

Didn't realise he was basically running an online cult, similar to the one Tate runs albeit without the pimping.

For the sake of Clives sanity on 02:28 - Sep 18 with 2385 views

SydneyRs

The sheer number of people coming out against him, including from the entertainment industry, suggests this is possibly a no smoke without fire situation. However it should be handled by the courts rather than by a media "drip feed" designed to maximise profit from the situation.

You actually need evidence to send someone to prison. Not just stories of him being a sexual predator with a questionable attitude towards women which would come as a surprise to nobody. We'd need to build a lot more prisons to allow for that type of conviction.

[Post edited 18 Sep 2023 2:29]

For the sake of Clives sanity on 02:31 - Sep 18 with 2368 views

numptydumpty

The program was very vague

if rumour told he slept with thousands

Couple of the four spoken about were abuse if what they say is true but really why is this spoken about in a television program first.

If the women prepared to speak to the documentary makers, why have they not gone to the police - only reason suggests possibly they did and nothing was done.

Otherwise its really wrong that we see this before a potential prosecution.

Lots of people dont like Brand - I worked with a woman fifteen to twenty years ago who was obsessed with him and if she met him, she would have given him the go ahead for all sorts.

Personally never really got him myself and obviously his lifestyle back then was very weird.

Does this ever happen the other way around, I dont know, its never something I have ever heard anything spoken about.

The documentary was interspersed with his "own humour" which was strange at best, but I expect a media circus by all outlets now, to constantly chat about this, until they all get their redemption, with the end result being Brands career and status destroyed - which wont be dependent on any criminal investigations that may ensue but simply that they will all attempt to bring this man down such that a fair trial would be impossible.

Not saying he hasnt done wrong, he may well have done, but really clearly everything is upside down now, if these women are brave enough to go to documentary makers, why have they not pursued legal options first. Maybe they have and were not listened to, Am guessing thats probably true otherwise everything is upside down.

Trial by social media and media first before any successful or otherwise legal process.

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For the sake of Clives sanity on 02:34 - Sep 18 with 2378 views

loftupper

For the sake of Clives sanity on 02:28 - Sep 18 by SydneyRs

[Post edited 18 Sep 2023 2:29]

I presume that’s what the five year investigation has been doing, gathering evidence. Absolutely correct though let’s let the courts decide based on evidence gathered.

Your last sentence shows how far we have to go as a society

For the sake of Clives sanity on 02:45 - Sep 18 with 2370 views

SydneyRs

For the sake of Clives sanity on 02:34 - Sep 18 by loftupper
I presume that’s what the five year investigation has been doing, gathering evidence. Absolutely correct though let’s let the courts decide based on evidence gathered. Your last sentence shows how far we have to go as a society

Indeed, not long since the US president was allowed to keep his job after his "grab them by the pussy" comment was aired and a prominent member of the royal family bought his way out of trouble. Brand probably an easier target than them though and he may well be guilty, time will tell.

For the sake of Clives sanity on 02:59 - Sep 18 with 2349 views

numptydumpty

For the sake of Clives sanity on 02:45 - Sep 18 by SydneyRs
Indeed, not long since the US president was allowed to keep his job after his "grab them by the pussy" comment was aired and a prominent member of the royal family bought his way out of trouble. Brand probably an easier target than them though and he may well be guilty, time will tell.

And yet in Dubai, public displays of affection such as holding hands or a peck on the cheek are criminalised with potential imprisonment and many a holidaymaker has fallen foul of this.

As my old nan used to say "There is nothing more stranger than folk"

Think this forum could be testament to that !!!

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For the sake of Clives sanity on 03:29 - Sep 18 with 2331 views

numptydumpty

Was it 2011, the allegations about Saviile came out and then loads celebrities from 70s and 80s accused, some correctly and some not so.

So if rumour is to be true this was when Brand was at the height of his promiscuity and the period when all the alleged assaults detailed in this program were from.

Hence why was this not picked up on at the time.

Because he was a current celebrity of sorts then and not from decades before its not been picked up on until decades later for himself !!!

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For the sake of Clives sanity on 03:30 - Sep 18 with 2344 views

WA_Hoop

For the sake of Clives sanity on 14:50 - Sep 17 by PlanetHonneywood
Complete and utter rubbish WAH, peddled by that buffoon, Johnson. https://www.bbc.com/news/60213975 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/08/fact-check-keir-starmer-responsi

John, I've always found your posts here and elsewhere measured intelligent and articulate.

Maybe, the Keir Sarmer accusation was a case of 'mud slinging' but I'm not sure the very corporation that employed JS is the ideal arbiter on such matters. Sorry, I couldn't access the Telegraph link.

I recently watched a 1978 interview with John Lydon who had some choice comments about 'the cigar muncher', his words not mine. Anyway I digress and I apologise for trying to provide oxygen for an unsubstantiated allegation.

For the sake of Clives sanity on 03:38 - Sep 18 with 2342 views

WA_Hoop

For the sake of Clives sanity on 17:18 - Sep 17 by FDC
Clive: " just don't go off down whacky conspiracy theory rabbit holes, ok? WA_Hoop: " Hold my beer"

Exactly which part on my observation doesn't stand up to scrutiny?

Have the events of recent years not made you a little less inclined to accept things at face value?

Maybe you were simply trying to be humourous.

For the sake of Clives sanity on 08:59 - Sep 18 with 2179 views

daveB

For the sake of Clives sanity on 00:42 - Sep 18 by Wegerles_Stairs

She was 16 years old he was 30, yes she was of legal age but if true it's not exactly great

For the sake of Clives sanity on 09:09 - Sep 18 with 2151 views

Rs_Holy

For the sake of Clives sanity on 13:02 - Sep 17 by Northernr
Look as long as it stays within the boundaries of libel laws and doesn't go off down whacky conspiracy theory rabbit holes then knock yourselves out. My point a couple of weeks ago was about treating each other with respect, as QPR fans, even when we disagree, because multiple threads had turned toxic and/or been hijacked and trolled.

'treating each other with respect, as QPR fans, even when we disagree'.

That sentence should be emblazoned at the top of the page next to the 'LOFT FOR WORDs' crest Clive...

As for Brand, I really hate him but have no idea if he is guilty of these crimes??? Another court case shown live on US TV beckons ... deep joy.

For the sake of Clives sanity on 09:11 - Sep 18 with 2144 views

daveB

One of the things to come out of it which kind of blows apart this mainstream media conspiracy is that channel 4 and the BBC are now under investigation for allowing this to happen on their watch. They are not going to come out of this well

I used to work at Viacom and Russell Brand a a regular in the office as he presented a show on MTV his ego was out of control back then but women seemed obsessed with him. have to say never saw or heard of anything like what he's accused of here but this was a few years before the allegations have been made. One of the girls i worked with ended up having a night with him. and well, she enjoyed herself judging by the graphical details she gave us.

No idea if any of these new allegations are true but I do hope in among all the nonsense that these women's stories are heard and taken seriously.

I do find it mad though how different the reactions are depending on what political views the person accused seems to have. Schofield and Edwards, nonce, lock em up, man of the people Russell Brand, it's all lies.

For the sake of Clives sanity on 09:33 - Sep 18 with 2099 views

PlanetHonneywood

For the sake of Clives sanity on 03:30 - Sep 18 by WA_Hoop

Fair play Mighty WAH, you have done something that alas, many people cannot. Namely, have a strong view on something, read some stuff, and altered your opinion accordingly.

Therein lays the big problem in modern society: the complete polarisation on each and every topic of discussion; exacerbated by a refusal of many to even consider the other person may have a different view, that is both correct and justifiable, to the more worrying aspect: ignoring demonstrable facts which in some cases, are backed by science!

Fear not: some knuckle draggers will prefer to think KS either cocked up and/or was part of a nonce cabal. This is despite several Tory MPs berating Buffoon Johnson for his comments; his trying to reel them back; and investigations into KS' role proving otherwise.

However, picking up on your point about the BBC. Maybe we should possibly distinguish between the management of the BBC and there handling of allegations about JS and others (see further my earlier post about talent management) and the BBC's journalism and its journalists.

If we are unable to do that, then the BBC might as well pack up its news reporting and investigative journalism (which is a pale shadow of what it used to be in my humble). I don't know if during the various investigations it was alleged or discovered that BBC management pressured BBC journalists to look the other way or blatantly stopped investigations into JS and others, in which case their journalists are complicit to a lesser degree.

However, what I saw of the BBC's subsequent reporting on the matter, did not pull any punches when it came to criticising the BBC for the way it did - maybe that should be did not - handle the JS scandal.

As a sidebar, the trouble with the BBC now, is that it doesn't know whether to take a tom tit or a shower when it gets up in the morning. It's scared beyond belief about making the 'right decision' in case it offends people and thus, we have the nonsense we have seen with Lineker and Edwards matters were handled. Anyway, if all these questions and more are not answered by the Brand affair, another will be along shortly to reignite the debate.

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For the sake of Clives sanity on 10:26 - Sep 18 with 2022 views

PunteR

Has Brand ever tried to hide his past misdemeanours. ?

Occasional providers of half decent House music.

For the sake of Clives sanity on 10:57 - Sep 18 with 1966 views

daveB

For the sake of Clives sanity on 10:26 - Sep 18 by PunteR
Has Brand ever tried to hide his past misdemeanours. ?

it's kind of what made him famous as shagger of the year in the sun in the mid 2000's, he's been quite open about it I think.

For the sake of Clives sanity on 11:01 - Sep 18 with 1942 views

Wegerles_Stairs

For the sake of Clives sanity on 08:59 - Sep 18 by daveB
She was 16 years old he was 30, yes she was of legal age but if true it's not exactly great

I think the runner was different to the schoolgirl who he sent the taxi for. Personally, I felt a lot of the programme was conflating what could be morally questionable and what is illegal. Absolutely prosecute him for rapes and sexual assaults, but the rest of it was no different to what rock stars have been doing for decades (and in many cases with girls younger than that).

[Post edited 18 Sep 2023 11:01]

For the sake of Clives sanity on 11:37 - Sep 18 with 1885 views

kensalriser

For the sake of Clives sanity on 02:31 - Sep 18 by numptydumpty

There was one outright accusation of rape and several more of sexual assault and/or attempted rape. Doesn't seem vague at all.

Here's E17's post from above again as you seem to have missed it:

Because. Women's. Voices. Aren't. Listened. To.

1 in 4 women in this country will be raped and half will have been assaulted sexually. That includes flashing, inappropriate touching, and unwanted physical advances. There are insufficient police resources to manage the current demand yet we're saying women can't talk about it unless they've reported it to the police. The police who are employing over 1500 officers who have been accused of sexual offences and those officers are not suspended.

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For the sake of Clives sanity on 13:12 - Sep 18 with 1745 views

numptydumpty

For the sake of Clives sanity on 09:09 - Sep 18 by Rs_Holy
'treating each other with respect, as QPR fans, even when we disagree'. That sentence should be emblazoned at the top of the page next to the 'LOFT FOR WORDs' crest Clive... As for Brand, I really hate him but have no idea if he is guilty of these crimes??? Another court case shown live on US TV beckons ... deep joy.

What about also treating QPR players with respect also.

That one is often sadly not in evidence.

I can predict the justifications coming through ahead of time.

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For the sake of Clives sanity on 13:28 - Sep 18 with 1718 views

numptydumpty

For the sake of Clives sanity on 11:37 - Sep 18 by kensalriser

I watched the program with my partner who was raped years ago.

So am very aware there are many sexual predators in the police and the house of commons , like there are in many places of society, and people dont report crimes. Wasnt suggesting otherwise. Pointing this out to me, is not necessary, but you were not to know.

Was just saying these people have accused him of these offences, but now its likely they will be invited to elaborate and go into more detail to the police but if they prepared to liase with media, then the police are likely to wish to approach these women.

Its the wrong way around but they are now likely to be invited to report the crimes.

There always been circumstances where our police system is really bad, sexist. very poor against people suffering with their mental health, people being victimised due to race or financial status, ie on benefits.

Anyhow, unfortunately it is as it is in todays world. Hope there are stronger voices that change around these inconsistencies etc.

Scammers by phone and email are almost never fully investigated. Again, police resources.

I try to look more at the positive elements of society as opposed to the negative, otherwise you can go bit bonkers

Sorry kensalriser, I quite ofen think my words can easily be misunderstood.

I do agree with your viewpoint but hope things can change but also it doesnt go completely the other way

[Post edited 18 Sep 2023 13:31]

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