| England v Andorra 16:12 - Sep 5 with 7459 views | TGRRRSSS |
Obviously a general case of how many and how quickly England get ahead, I always find a certain fascination with the games with Andorra, Liechtenstein, San Marino etc.
Mainly wondering what standard is relative to them in terms of whether any of there players would be able to play League football in England, or National league etc.
6-0 to England wholesale changes seemingly. |  | | |  |
| England v Andorra on 22:17 - Sep 5 with 1731 views | danehoop |
I like him. Been a fantastic manager for England. Has grown into the role and clearly surrounded himself with an excellent team. Players clearly rate him and play for him.
My only thought today was that the 2nd string haven't done much yet to push his automatic first team choices. Bamford doesn't look international class - but then he and the team he was in haven't played together before, so probably unfair. Overall a good performance with a number of gears to go up when needed. |  |
| Never knowingly understood |
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| England v Andorra on 22:19 - Sep 5 with 1731 views | Match82 |
| England v Andorra on 19:27 - Sep 5 by Ned_Kennedys |
Totally agree, Southgate is still very much the safe option and we will never win a tournament under him as he will never take the selection risks and has his favourites such as the mediocre Mount and too often chooses players out of position.
Reece James was dire, no idea how he gets selected. |
" we will never win a tournament under him"
This is quite a bold take when we were two penalties away from doing just that literally a couple of months ago |  | | |
| England v Andorra on 22:27 - Sep 5 with 1704 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| England v Andorra on 22:17 - Sep 5 by davman |
This is NOTHING to do with Southgate's personality - I liked his sensible, considered, intelligent approach as a player and as a person, so stop presuming you know the reasons why I dislike England under him.
A massive positive about Southgate is his reliance on youth; it is refreshing to see and is more progressive than any other manager before him. He is obviously a scholar of the game and his approach is technically the correct one in a modern game - don't concede and you'll win more often than not.
His results are also impressive, especially at Major Tournaments although I will still argue that the World Cup of 2018 was a case of England the flat track bullies - we beat the lesser teams, but came up short in the end. This years' Euros was a particularly good set of results and we were there on merit as technically the second best team in the tournament up to the final.
BUT, my God, it is boring. The youthful, attacking options England has is impressive, but he was reluctant to let it run loose. Scotland at the Euros was a particularly low point for me. Whatever way you dress it up, it was two defensive midfielders at home to Scotland. A crap game, a crap performance and really, really boring. There is no "Trademark" around that phrase; the word describes what I felt watching that crap; I was bored because it WAS boring. I don't need a trademark to tell me what I felt or did not feel - I know boredom watching football when I see it.
So, you don't agree - fair play; I can't tell you that you are wrong as much as you shouldn't try to tell me I am wrong; these are opinions, you are welcome to yours and good luck to you.
Tonight's game was crap until Grealish, Mount and Kane came on. Not a fan of Mount, but tonight was probably the best I've seen of him in an England shirt. Without them, it was an embarrassing performance - as others have said, I do not know what dirt Reece James must have on Southgate to be part of our national team, but it must be good. Basically, that was our reserve team and let's hope that they all stay there in reserve... |
Genuinely disagree that it’s boring. Like you say, Opinions.
I think our attacking shape of Sterling, Foden, Saka, and Grealish is the most we’ve seen in a while. [Post edited 5 Sep 2021 22:29]
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| England v Andorra on 23:09 - Sep 5 with 1643 views | denhamhoop2 |
| England v Andorra on 22:27 - Sep 5 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Genuinely disagree that it’s boring. Like you say, Opinions.
I think our attacking shape of Sterling, Foden, Saka, and Grealish is the most we’ve seen in a while. [Post edited 5 Sep 2021 22:29]
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Think you kind of miss the point of much of the criticism of Southgate with your post as I predict you will never see all 4 of these in the same team together, It's frustration as Southgate reminds me a little of Olly and his love of Square Pegs in Round Holes tonight his attempt to play TT Arnold in midfield and Trippier at LB. I fully understand Club Managers being left with making do and mend but surely there is a Left Back that could do a job for England other than Shaw |  | | |
| England v Andorra on 23:10 - Sep 5 with 1642 views | davman |
| England v Andorra on 22:27 - Sep 5 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Genuinely disagree that it’s boring. Like you say, Opinions.
I think our attacking shape of Sterling, Foden, Saka, and Grealish is the most we’ve seen in a while. [Post edited 5 Sep 2021 22:29]
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Don't disagree with your last para, but he didn't play Foden, Saka or Grealish that much during the Euros. He could have, but he didn't. These attacking options would have destroyed Scotland at Wembley, but instead we held on for a 0-0. |  |
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| England v Andorra on 23:37 - Sep 5 with 1610 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| England v Andorra on 23:09 - Sep 5 by denhamhoop2 |
Think you kind of miss the point of much of the criticism of Southgate with your post as I predict you will never see all 4 of these in the same team together, It's frustration as Southgate reminds me a little of Olly and his love of Square Pegs in Round Holes tonight his attempt to play TT Arnold in midfield and Trippier at LB. I fully understand Club Managers being left with making do and mend but surely there is a Left Back that could do a job for England other than Shaw |
I totally understand the criticisms I genuinely do but I guess I don’t care if it’s getting us consistently to semi finals and finals.
For all the upset about TAA in midfield we ran out 4-0 winners today and have 5/5.
If it works why complain is my point I guess. | | | |
| England v Andorra on 23:39 - Sep 5 with 1602 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| England v Andorra on 23:10 - Sep 5 by davman |
Don't disagree with your last para, but he didn't play Foden, Saka or Grealish that much during the Euros. He could have, but he didn't. These attacking options would have destroyed Scotland at Wembley, but instead we held on for a 0-0. |
I’m sure he did? Grealish and Saka played in every game I think, and Foden only didn’t play when he was injured and had Covid.
Like I say, we’re constantly told it’s results game and not winning a trophy for 60 years means I’m keen to support someone that works for us. [Post edited 5 Sep 2021 23:41]
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| England v Andorra on 23:45 - Sep 5 with 1584 views | Maggsinho |
| England v Andorra on 23:39 - Sep 5 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I’m sure he did? Grealish and Saka played in every game I think, and Foden only didn’t play when he was injured and had Covid.
Like I say, we’re constantly told it’s results game and not winning a trophy for 60 years means I’m keen to support someone that works for us. [Post edited 5 Sep 2021 23:41]
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Foden played and was subbed for Grealish. Don’t think Saka played against Scotland. [Post edited 5 Sep 2021 23:46]
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| England v Andorra on 23:48 - Sep 5 with 1583 views | daveB |
| England v Andorra on 23:10 - Sep 5 by davman |
Don't disagree with your last para, but he didn't play Foden, Saka or Grealish that much during the Euros. He could have, but he didn't. These attacking options would have destroyed Scotland at Wembley, but instead we held on for a 0-0. |
He'd have been a fool to play all of those against Scotland, we didn't play well that night but still drew and qualified with a game to spare for the second tournament in a row. It's rare to play well in every tournament game. Italy were poor against Austria and got away with it just as we were crap against Scotland.
Southgate is very pragmatic and I think he's right in not letting all the attacking players run wild, that defensive approach works well for him. Ultimately he can only really play 3 of these attacking midfielders behind Kane, any more than that and the balance of the team wouldn't really work.
The one mistake he made in the Euros was the order of the penalty takers but even that is only something you can say with hindsight. All the focus has been on Saka but Sancho/Rashford for me was the cock up, they'd hardly kicked a ball all tournament and neither looked in any sort of form. Still saying that you'd back them over the 2 they replaced (Henderson & Walker) |  | | |
| England v Andorra on 23:56 - Sep 5 with 1573 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| England v Andorra on 23:48 - Sep 5 by daveB |
He'd have been a fool to play all of those against Scotland, we didn't play well that night but still drew and qualified with a game to spare for the second tournament in a row. It's rare to play well in every tournament game. Italy were poor against Austria and got away with it just as we were crap against Scotland.
Southgate is very pragmatic and I think he's right in not letting all the attacking players run wild, that defensive approach works well for him. Ultimately he can only really play 3 of these attacking midfielders behind Kane, any more than that and the balance of the team wouldn't really work.
The one mistake he made in the Euros was the order of the penalty takers but even that is only something you can say with hindsight. All the focus has been on Saka but Sancho/Rashford for me was the cock up, they'd hardly kicked a ball all tournament and neither looked in any sort of form. Still saying that you'd back them over the 2 they replaced (Henderson & Walker) |
Agreed this is one of the better England teams in my lifetime.
I do also find international football a bit dull in general. |  |
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| England v Andorra on 07:49 - Sep 6 with 1410 views | nix |
| England v Andorra on 23:48 - Sep 5 by daveB |
He'd have been a fool to play all of those against Scotland, we didn't play well that night but still drew and qualified with a game to spare for the second tournament in a row. It's rare to play well in every tournament game. Italy were poor against Austria and got away with it just as we were crap against Scotland.
Southgate is very pragmatic and I think he's right in not letting all the attacking players run wild, that defensive approach works well for him. Ultimately he can only really play 3 of these attacking midfielders behind Kane, any more than that and the balance of the team wouldn't really work.
The one mistake he made in the Euros was the order of the penalty takers but even that is only something you can say with hindsight. All the focus has been on Saka but Sancho/Rashford for me was the cock up, they'd hardly kicked a ball all tournament and neither looked in any sort of form. Still saying that you'd back them over the 2 they replaced (Henderson & Walker) |
Fair comment but I think what really cost us that match was when we sat back after scoring so early. Italy were rocking after we scored but we didn't even really attempt to score the second, which let them back into the game. By half time they'd recovered their confidence and were all over us by the second half.
Once that happened though, he compounded with the penalty takers, I agree, and that's not just with hindsight, I, and everyone I was watching it with, thought so before a kick was taken. Weird decision.
It's that plan B thing. It's like he's got a structure for the match and he can't change it whatever happens on the field of play. |  | | |
| England v Andorra on 08:01 - Sep 6 with 1394 views | gazza1 |
I believe that we have the players to WIN tournaments but we don't and that imo is because the Manager is not good enough.....for several reasons. Yes, he has got a lot right but he isn't good enough, despite the players who are good enough, to get us over the winning line.
The last two big tournaments has proved that. World Cup....beaten by a average Croatia, Euro's.....winning position but failed again and some of his decisions were very poor.
Many of our wins are not because of Southgate, it is because we have a proper decent squad who are 'well capable' despite a pretty average, boring manager. | | | |
| England v Andorra on 08:09 - Sep 6 with 1379 views | stevec |
I’ll start watching again when a fully functioning QPR player starts.
Until then, I’ll join the action at the knock out stage circa Dec 22. |  | | |
| England v Andorra on 10:09 - Sep 6 with 1295 views | daveB |
| England v Andorra on 07:49 - Sep 6 by nix |
Fair comment but I think what really cost us that match was when we sat back after scoring so early. Italy were rocking after we scored but we didn't even really attempt to score the second, which let them back into the game. By half time they'd recovered their confidence and were all over us by the second half.
Once that happened though, he compounded with the penalty takers, I agree, and that's not just with hindsight, I, and everyone I was watching it with, thought so before a kick was taken. Weird decision.
It's that plan B thing. It's like he's got a structure for the match and he can't change it whatever happens on the field of play. |
We did push for a second in the first half an hour then Italy came back into it as they were always going to, they are a good side. They still didn't create an awful lot when they were on top. I re watched the final a few weeks back and thought after they scored we came back quite well and did look the more likely to score in extra time. | | | |
| England v Andorra on 10:15 - Sep 6 with 1292 views | daveB |
| England v Andorra on 08:01 - Sep 6 by gazza1 |
I believe that we have the players to WIN tournaments but we don't and that imo is because the Manager is not good enough.....for several reasons. Yes, he has got a lot right but he isn't good enough, despite the players who are good enough, to get us over the winning line.
The last two big tournaments has proved that. World Cup....beaten by a average Croatia, Euro's.....winning position but failed again and some of his decisions were very poor.
Many of our wins are not because of Southgate, it is because we have a proper decent squad who are 'well capable' despite a pretty average, boring manager. |
You say that Croatia team was average but the England one hugely over achieved as well. A team with a midfield of Dier, Henderson, Ali and Lingaard got to the semi final, better England midfields than that have gone out in the first round. For all the talk about how they couldn't keep the ball in that semi final I'm still not sure what people expected with those players. The only way they were going to win that game was by getting a second goal when we were on top as was always likely they would run out of steam.
The team has evolved over time, the midfield were a lot better both with and without the ball in the Euros and I think when Bellingham becomes a regular and possibly Grealish as well if he ends up playing in the middle at City and Smith-Rowe at Arsenal we'll improve again for the next tournament.
England always have a decent squad going back decades but it's rare that we have a manager who understands international football and finds a way to win rather than trying to copy whatever is happening in the premier league. Perhaps that is boring but I'd rather that than the shit we've had as managers since Venables & Hoddle left | | | |
| England v Andorra on 10:16 - Sep 6 with 1291 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| England v Andorra on 10:09 - Sep 6 by daveB |
We did push for a second in the first half an hour then Italy came back into it as they were always going to, they are a good side. They still didn't create an awful lot when they were on top. I re watched the final a few weeks back and thought after they scored we came back quite well and did look the more likely to score in extra time. |
Any other manager would definitely have beaten world record equalling 36 game unbeaten Italy.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58456676 | | | |
| England v Andorra on 10:45 - Sep 6 with 1237 views | gazza1 |
| England v Andorra on 10:15 - Sep 6 by daveB |
You say that Croatia team was average but the England one hugely over achieved as well. A team with a midfield of Dier, Henderson, Ali and Lingaard got to the semi final, better England midfields than that have gone out in the first round. For all the talk about how they couldn't keep the ball in that semi final I'm still not sure what people expected with those players. The only way they were going to win that game was by getting a second goal when we were on top as was always likely they would run out of steam.
The team has evolved over time, the midfield were a lot better both with and without the ball in the Euros and I think when Bellingham becomes a regular and possibly Grealish as well if he ends up playing in the middle at City and Smith-Rowe at Arsenal we'll improve again for the next tournament.
England always have a decent squad going back decades but it's rare that we have a manager who understands international football and finds a way to win rather than trying to copy whatever is happening in the premier league. Perhaps that is boring but I'd rather that than the shit we've had as managers since Venables & Hoddle left |
It was an average Croatian team......we just about managed to get to the semi-final with wins but the teams we won against were poor indeed. We should have gotten at least to the final, at the very least with the draw that we had - we played some poor, poor teams and just about beat them.
Our team is much better now and we could not play that well to get to the final and we had a massive chance but Southgate made some bad decisions or not made decisions. We were good enough all round to win that final but we didn't and I blame Southgate primarily. | | | |
| England v Andorra on 10:54 - Sep 6 with 1231 views | gazza1 |
| England v Andorra on 20:51 - Sep 5 by BazzaInTheLoft |
His unprecedented 66% win rate and unprecedented multiple tournament performances is all I care about.
These are conveniently ignored for some reason. I’ve never even heard the media bring it up.
I don’t think attacks about a draw with Scotland 7 games ago and ‘boring football ™︑ cut it as a response to those facts to be honest. I think if Southgate had a media personality like Ian Holloway or Terry Venables and he wasn’t forced to function in the BLM era things would be very different. Neither of those things he can do anything about incidentally.
It’s sad, and it’s disheartening knowing that Southgate is only a bad run away from the sack despite his immense record. [Post edited 5 Sep 2021 21:19]
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You can say what you like about stats but they don't mean a lot as far as I am concerned.
Look at yesterday, why the f did he play a team like that?? Another win and other stat for Southgate - big deal!!! What good did it actually do for the players that played?? Let me know because I cannot see any good?? All it done was to allow the 1st team players to have a rest. I would have mixed it up a bit so the reserve players got a better feel.
Opinions eh!!! Southgate = Mr Boring or Mr Average however you want to see it.
Note - I see he is playing Grealish!!! - about 3 months too late!!! | | | |
| England v Andorra on 10:58 - Sep 6 with 1231 views | danehoop |
| England v Andorra on 10:45 - Sep 6 by gazza1 |
It was an average Croatian team......we just about managed to get to the semi-final with wins but the teams we won against were poor indeed. We should have gotten at least to the final, at the very least with the draw that we had - we played some poor, poor teams and just about beat them.
Our team is much better now and we could not play that well to get to the final and we had a massive chance but Southgate made some bad decisions or not made decisions. We were good enough all round to win that final but we didn't and I blame Southgate primarily. |
I too blame Southgate for actually getting to finals, creating a focus on youth, seeing continuous improvement in coaching set up and approach.
I think there were many potential banana skins for us to slip up on with what was a very young side overall. Southgate is developing something very special and for the first time in years we have an England team that most people have been pleased with and got behind. I worry though at your implication that we are somehow so much better than other international sides. I just think how well Denmark played in the circumstances and how well Southgate did in countering the the threat that they had by his tactics.
I'm happy. | |
| Never knowingly understood |
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| England v Andorra on 11:03 - Sep 6 with 1229 views | Maggsinho |
| England v Andorra on 10:54 - Sep 6 by gazza1 |
You can say what you like about stats but they don't mean a lot as far as I am concerned.
Look at yesterday, why the f did he play a team like that?? Another win and other stat for Southgate - big deal!!! What good did it actually do for the players that played?? Let me know because I cannot see any good?? All it done was to allow the 1st team players to have a rest. I would have mixed it up a bit so the reserve players got a better feel.
Opinions eh!!! Southgate = Mr Boring or Mr Average however you want to see it.
Note - I see he is playing Grealish!!! - about 3 months too late!!! |
This seems very cross about a game where we played a B team, got three points and scored four goals whilst resting the first team for a tricky game against Poland. | | | |
| England v Andorra on 11:27 - Sep 6 with 1204 views | daveB |
| England v Andorra on 10:45 - Sep 6 by gazza1 |
It was an average Croatian team......we just about managed to get to the semi-final with wins but the teams we won against were poor indeed. We should have gotten at least to the final, at the very least with the draw that we had - we played some poor, poor teams and just about beat them.
Our team is much better now and we could not play that well to get to the final and we had a massive chance but Southgate made some bad decisions or not made decisions. We were good enough all round to win that final but we didn't and I blame Southgate primarily. |
Considering we hadn't won a knockout game in 12 years before that World Cup I thought they did pretty well to make the semi final. Perhaps should have beaten Croatia although for me they were a good side but overall he did very well. | | | |
| England v Andorra on 11:30 - Sep 6 with 1197 views | DavieQPR |
I have never known England to play so many matches against such inferior opposition. |  | | |
| England v Andorra on 11:37 - Sep 6 with 1194 views | bosh67 |
I think Southgate like all managers has his faults but it is very hard to pick holes in a manager that has a. got us to a semi final. b. got us to a final that we lost on penalties and then restarted a world cup campaign by sweeping everyone aside so far. There is always an air of entitlement around the fans regarding how well we should do. Are we as good as Italy. No, but nearly. Are we as good as anyone else out there. Yes, most probably. Can we make another final or a few more finals with this squad? Yes. |  |
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| England v Andorra on 12:06 - Sep 6 with 1154 views | denhamhoop2 |
| England v Andorra on 11:37 - Sep 6 by bosh67 |
I think Southgate like all managers has his faults but it is very hard to pick holes in a manager that has a. got us to a semi final. b. got us to a final that we lost on penalties and then restarted a world cup campaign by sweeping everyone aside so far. There is always an air of entitlement around the fans regarding how well we should do. Are we as good as Italy. No, but nearly. Are we as good as anyone else out there. Yes, most probably. Can we make another final or a few more finals with this squad? Yes. |
Looking at England and Italy player by player I am not sure they are actually superior to England. Pick a combined XI and see just how many Italians would be in it. In terms of personnel think Brazil and France probably have the better individuals but that does not a superior team make(Being QPR fans with the Playoff final winning team we should know this better than most others) | | | |
| England v Andorra on 12:21 - Sep 6 with 1132 views | Superhoop83 |
I'm just glad the international weekend is over. |  |
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