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This is truly shameful as this has been brought up literally hundreds of times since it was first disclosed you couldn't see them.
You've made mugs out of a lot of people and were happy to allow this myth to build and build and be used as another tool for fans not to trust the owners.
The real question is can we trust the Trust
I'm sorry but this is another clear example of why we can't.
It's a sham.
You're all out of time....the past was yours but the future's mine.
FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 10:07 - Feb 4 by _
Were not arguing but I'm sure you'll agree there's a huge misconception among fans as to what the Trust actually does or doesn't know.
Now, as with everything, this can be spun and twisted to suit most agendas, but what we do know is....
1. The Trust - a sub group of I would guess 3 or 4 including Lisa and Ux - receive detailed monthly management accounts.
2. These are forensically analysed and there is no evidence of wrongdoing.
3. Which up to this point proves no money has left our football club other than what is documented - no assets have been stripped.
4. The Trust know that cost cutting was the only option this season. That we had a huge black hole to fill and that we were unable to shift huge earners off the wage bill
What they don't know is...
1. If the cost cutting was too severe
2. What do the Americans forecast the next couple of seasons to be.
Now, if the above was communicated as it should have been, not hidden in mixed messages, or briefly spoken about in a Trust forum, then I'm sure most fans would be in a better position to evaluate their thoughts, instead of just jumping on bandwagons screaming for blood.
The communication is awful, but my problem is, is that it's awful for a reason, because it suited the Trust to garner support on the back of mass hysteria as a result of mis-communication.
Poor show, but now we know the full details let me ask this question...
If it were a simple choice of selling Dan James or going into administration, what would fans want to happen?
Sensible replies only?!
Like I said... I knew all them things and I'm thick. I paid a poxy tenner and attended 2 meetings and listened. Simple. I do not believe fuk all I hear on here or on Twitter, as I am an adult and I like to hear the truth from the horses mouth.
i don't think it's the Trust's job to post anything on here. If you want to know something, go to hear it and you can ask your questions there on the day. Simple.
And to answer your question. Flog everyone, rather than go out of business of course.
FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 20:40 - Feb 3 by monmouth
Have we got to the position yet that the Trust Director gets the management accounts but they don't give the level of detail that he needs to perform his fiduciary duty, and the yanks are refusing to give it without an NDA? Because that's where I thought we were headed yesterday on this, or had actually got to.
That's the substance of the issue isn't it?
Fiduciary comment was in response to your concerns around the significance of the missing detail.
Clearly the Trust board director should be inputting and contributing to strategy development and underlying forecasts (not just seeing them). And should have the relevant capabilities to get on with that crucial responsibility.
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FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 10:20 - Feb 4 with 2128 views
FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 10:05 - Feb 4 by jackrmee
I've been following the Swans for many years, but have only just become a trust member and have only been to 2 meetings ever. I know fuk all about account or how they work, but even I knew what SMcD said and I thought that although they do see some accounts and could see no wrongdoing, they needed to see more detailed accounts in order to be sure of no wrongdoing. He would have been allowed to see them, but had to sign an NDA so he couldn't even discuss them with the rest of the trust board, let alone us. The Trust aren't happy with that, so (may be wrong on this bit) it's part of the pending court action along with how the trust got tucked up in the sale of the club?
Seems quite simple to me, and I'm reasonably thick. Even though the monthly accounts are "reasonably detailed" and the Trust have no reason to think anything is dodgy, the mere mention of an NDA when more detail is requested suggests something dodgy right? Isn't that where we are? That's all the details we have right?
I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of the club. The way I see it, if I knew this by going to 2 Trust meetings, why are some people who claim to know so much and care so much about the club, basing their anger upon a tweet they see, or a post on here? That's even thicker than me.
ps. I just saw your last post. Quite possibly didn't get discussed in more detail before December's meeting, as that's the first one I went to .
No, not at all does it mean something is dodgy and you should retract that statement.
It just basically means they are being prudently careful as to who has access to our most sensitive information.
The Director of the Trust should be receiving these so he should've signed the NDA and done his job
You're all out of time....the past was yours but the future's mine.
FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 10:07 - Feb 4 by _
Were not arguing but I'm sure you'll agree there's a huge misconception among fans as to what the Trust actually does or doesn't know.
Now, as with everything, this can be spun and twisted to suit most agendas, but what we do know is....
1. The Trust - a sub group of I would guess 3 or 4 including Lisa and Ux - receive detailed monthly management accounts.
2. These are forensically analysed and there is no evidence of wrongdoing.
3. Which up to this point proves no money has left our football club other than what is documented - no assets have been stripped.
4. The Trust know that cost cutting was the only option this season. That we had a huge black hole to fill and that we were unable to shift huge earners off the wage bill
What they don't know is...
1. If the cost cutting was too severe
2. What do the Americans forecast the next couple of seasons to be.
Now, if the above was communicated as it should have been, not hidden in mixed messages, or briefly spoken about in a Trust forum, then I'm sure most fans would be in a better position to evaluate their thoughts, instead of just jumping on bandwagons screaming for blood.
The communication is awful, but my problem is, is that it's awful for a reason, because it suited the Trust to garner support on the back of mass hysteria as a result of mis-communication.
Poor show, but now we know the full details let me ask this question...
If it were a simple choice of selling Dan James or going into administration, what would fans want to happen?
Sensible replies only?!
Sell, of course, but I’m assuming that the Trust statements of the last few days account for the information in the management accounts (that’s what I said I was comforted about when Ux said they’d seen them) so there shouldnt be any discontinuity. If the Trust were calling for player purchases and the management accounts showed a critical financial distress, near administration situation that would be quite bizarre. No, barmy.
FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 09:31 - Feb 4 by jackrmee
Didn't the trust refuse an NDA? Doesn't that snapshot with the green around it have more writing underneath which explains that there are not detailed enough, and that is the issue?
That snapshot showed that the missing detail was for Forecasting purposes - nothing to do with financial wrongdoing - read it again, it's an important distinction
-1
FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 10:33 - Feb 4 with 2072 views
FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 10:19 - Feb 4 by Elmo
Fiduciary comment was in response to your concerns around the significance of the missing detail.
Clearly the Trust board director should be inputting and contributing to strategy development and underlying forecasts (not just seeing them). And should have the relevant capabilities to get on with that crucial responsibility.
FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 10:18 - Feb 4 by jackrmee
Like I said... I knew all them things and I'm thick. I paid a poxy tenner and attended 2 meetings and listened. Simple. I do not believe fuk all I hear on here or on Twitter, as I am an adult and I like to hear the truth from the horses mouth.
i don't think it's the Trust's job to post anything on here. If you want to know something, go to hear it and you can ask your questions there on the day. Simple.
And to answer your question. Flog everyone, rather than go out of business of course.
Well I'm sorry but there is a mass revolt from fans on every social media platform and everyone of them is making unfair accusations.
The Trust have a duty of care to SCFC. It's little wonder the owners don't trust them if they allow such misplaced hysteria to spread.
You're all out of time....the past was yours but the future's mine.
FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 10:29 - Feb 4 by monmouth
Sell, of course, but I’m assuming that the Trust statements of the last few days account for the information in the management accounts (that’s what I said I was comforted about when Ux said they’d seen them) so there shouldnt be any discontinuity. If the Trust were calling for player purchases and the management accounts showed a critical financial distress, near administration situation that would be quite bizarre. No, barmy.
In fairness they waffled around the subject of player purchases in that Trust statement, which was pretty much a hatchet job on Jenkins. They also said they didn't know and for the owners to open up as to why decisions were made, so I think it's a bit of a stretch to say they've examined the accounts and they saw plenty of space for new signings.
From the statement...
''''Secondly, we call on the club’s majority owners to be totally transparent and communicate to the fans the reasons for taking the decisions they have taken and were prepared to take. If the reasons are purely financial then why haven’t the significant cuts being made on the playing side been reflected off the pitch? The club has a number of highly-paid executives strongly rumoured to be paid in line with Premier League income rather than that of a financially prudent Championship club'''
If.... If.... If... the reasons are purely financial..... ??!
And hasn't it since come to light the previous Chairman had taken a significant pay cut?
You're all out of time....the past was yours but the future's mine.
FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 10:29 - Feb 4 by monmouth
Sell, of course, but I’m assuming that the Trust statements of the last few days account for the information in the management accounts (that’s what I said I was comforted about when Ux said they’d seen them) so there shouldnt be any discontinuity. If the Trust were calling for player purchases and the management accounts showed a critical financial distress, near administration situation that would be quite bizarre. No, barmy.
And this, it's vague, it doesn't suggest there's not financial distress now does it....
They are just guessing. Even with seeing the monthly accounts. That's not good enough now is it, certainly not to make fans think we've got money to spend...
'''As a Trust, we fully support the need to run the club on a financially prudent basis and understand that changes are needed to reflect our reduced income in the Championship. However, in the continued absence of detailed financial information, the Trust is unable to confirm whether the desire to move players on is the result of that financial prudence or simply a lack of ambition by our majority owners and those afforded the privilege of running the club on a day to day basis.''''
You're all out of time....the past was yours but the future's mine.
FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 12:01 - Feb 4 by _
In fairness they waffled around the subject of player purchases in that Trust statement, which was pretty much a hatchet job on Jenkins. They also said they didn't know and for the owners to open up as to why decisions were made, so I think it's a bit of a stretch to say they've examined the accounts and they saw plenty of space for new signings.
From the statement...
''''Secondly, we call on the club’s majority owners to be totally transparent and communicate to the fans the reasons for taking the decisions they have taken and were prepared to take. If the reasons are purely financial then why haven’t the significant cuts being made on the playing side been reflected off the pitch? The club has a number of highly-paid executives strongly rumoured to be paid in line with Premier League income rather than that of a financially prudent Championship club'''
If.... If.... If... the reasons are purely financial..... ??!
And hasn't it since come to light the previous Chairman had taken a significant pay cut?
The first ever recipient of a Planet Swans Lifetime Achievement Award.
I am not now nor have i ever been engaged in any capacity by the Trust.
As such I have never had access to any confidential information, financial or otherwise, regarding the club.
However, there is a key difference between having access to confidential information and knowing what to do with it!
i defy anybody to go back to my thread from around this time last year discussing the then published accounts, that Dim and T2C tried their very best to derail, and come to any other conclusion than I saw all this financial mess coming a mile off. Or perhaps a year off, more pertinently.
Unfortunately nobody really had a clue what I was talking about then, and the timeframe where something - anything - could be done about it has long since lapsed, after the intended target of one for my analysis instead of thanking me accused me of making up lies to undermine the club.
Why am I not now constantly posting about how brilliant I am? Because that is not what I do.
I should say my analysis is certainly not 100% correct, but i am confident that it is in the ballpark. The club is in the shit and I try to look for viable solutions.
The obvious solution to the current financial predicament is a major capital injection. I have already discussed this with Uxbridge in private via DM, and I later set out my views on this forum, proposing a structure that can give the parties most of what they want.
However, for parties to come together, there must first be a cessation of hostilities. In practice that involves putting a halt to the knee-jerk cycle of recrimination and counter-recrimination, which is one reason I am not attacking the Trust for not having been completely candid regarding access to the management accounts
The Trust have every right to feel aggrieved about their past treatment. But i urge everybody to try to keep their cool, especially now when many fans are clearly scenting blood.
FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 12:07 - Feb 4 by Shaky
i feel my ears burning so a couple of points.
I am not now nor have i ever been engaged in any capacity by the Trust.
As such I have never had access to any confidential information, financial or otherwise, regarding the club.
However, there is a key difference between having access to confidential information and knowing what to do with it!
i defy anybody to go back to my thread from around this time last year discussing the then published accounts, that Dim and T2C tried their very best to derail, and come to any other conclusion than I saw all this financial mess coming a mile off. Or perhaps a year off, more pertinently.
Unfortunately nobody really had a clue what I was talking about then, and the timeframe where something - anything - could be done about it has long since lapsed, after the intended target of one for my analysis instead of thanking me accused me of making up lies to undermine the club.
Why am I not now constantly posting about how brilliant I am? Because that is not what I do.
I should say my analysis is certainly not 100% correct, but i am confident that it is in the ballpark. The club is in the shit and I try to look for viable solutions.
The obvious solution to the current financial predicament is a major capital injection. I have already discussed this with Uxbridge in private via DM, and I later set out my views on this forum, proposing a structure that can give the parties most of what they want.
However, for parties to come together, there must first be a cessation of hostilities. In practice that involves putting a halt to the knee-jerk cycle of recrimination and counter-recrimination, which is one reason I am not attacking the Trust for not having been completely candid regarding access to the management accounts
The Trust have every right to feel aggrieved about their past treatment. But i urge everybody to try to keep their cool, especially now when many fans are clearly scenting blood.
[Post edited 4 Feb 2019 12:17]
A couple of things.
We used to get on then we didn't. Things turned sour for various different reasons and yes, I didn't perhaps want to accept the financial position you were documenting.
I still don't know how bad or recoverable it is, but I've come to terms with the fact it needs urgent remedying.
I don't want to open up old wounds, we've said enough on that score but I will ask you this, are the Americans, in your opinion, making tough but inevitable choices, or are they as the Trust are accusing them of, lacking ambition?
I'm also glad you agreed with me that the Trust, to use your words, haven't been 'completely candid' in their knowledge of having the management accounts
You're all out of time....the past was yours but the future's mine.
FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 12:07 - Feb 4 by Shaky
i feel my ears burning so a couple of points.
I am not now nor have i ever been engaged in any capacity by the Trust.
As such I have never had access to any confidential information, financial or otherwise, regarding the club.
However, there is a key difference between having access to confidential information and knowing what to do with it!
i defy anybody to go back to my thread from around this time last year discussing the then published accounts, that Dim and T2C tried their very best to derail, and come to any other conclusion than I saw all this financial mess coming a mile off. Or perhaps a year off, more pertinently.
Unfortunately nobody really had a clue what I was talking about then, and the timeframe where something - anything - could be done about it has long since lapsed, after the intended target of one for my analysis instead of thanking me accused me of making up lies to undermine the club.
Why am I not now constantly posting about how brilliant I am? Because that is not what I do.
I should say my analysis is certainly not 100% correct, but i am confident that it is in the ballpark. The club is in the shit and I try to look for viable solutions.
The obvious solution to the current financial predicament is a major capital injection. I have already discussed this with Uxbridge in private via DM, and I later set out my views on this forum, proposing a structure that can give the parties most of what they want.
However, for parties to come together, there must first be a cessation of hostilities. In practice that involves putting a halt to the knee-jerk cycle of recrimination and counter-recrimination, which is one reason I am not attacking the Trust for not having been completely candid regarding access to the management accounts
The Trust have every right to feel aggrieved about their past treatment. But i urge everybody to try to keep their cool, especially now when many fans are clearly scenting blood.
[Post edited 4 Feb 2019 12:17]
Also, interested to note you have sent advice to Trust board members
You're all out of time....the past was yours but the future's mine.
FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 12:25 - Feb 4 by _
Also, interested to note you have sent advice to Trust board members
Member. Singular. My financial analysis was posted on this board for all to see.
Otherwise I am not going to comment further on the financial position at this stage. Not least because nobody really understands it, but I have also already done that in spades with the appropriate qualifiers, assumptions, etc.
The only thing I can perhaps add is I very much doubt player sales will be sufficient to clear the debts.
As such I imagine some kind of refinancing is inevitable down the road. The key point is that for the time being that can be undertaken on a voluntary basis.
What do the contributors on this thread hope to gain out of trying to pick holes in the work the Trust has done? What is your end game? Would your energies be better utilised by channelling your investigative work into something which could benefit us?
POSTER OF THE YEAR 2013.
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE SECOND PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 12:39 - Feb 4 by Jackfath
What do the contributors on this thread hope to gain out of trying to pick holes in the work the Trust has done? What is your end game? Would your energies be better utilised by channelling your investigative work into something which could benefit us?
Who is the "us" in this question? The club? The fans? The trust? Planet Swans posters specifically (that may just want to read something different)?
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FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 12:52 - Feb 4 with 1719 views
FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 12:39 - Feb 4 by Jackfath
What do the contributors on this thread hope to gain out of trying to pick holes in the work the Trust has done? What is your end game? Would your energies be better utilised by channelling your investigative work into something which could benefit us?
Aye, with a strong indication that there is every likelihood that the Trust is now rekindling Petty-era-spirit, fight, ideals and standards?
Yep! Some with ego's and an hidden agenda or two now wish to pick holes, roadblock, derail and discredit an organisation and it's (selfless volunteers btw) individuals whom are now trying to do their best to redress obvious injustice and concerns.
Like I've said on here previously "Do-er's do"...Negative hot air-peddlers don't".
Argus!
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FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 12:57 - Feb 4 with 1691 views
FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 12:52 - Feb 4 by Jackfath
Any of them. Take your pick.
Picking holes in the actions of the trust benefits the fans immensely. Not enough holes were being picked back when the trust's representative on the board was Jenkins' drinking buddy, who failed to realise there was a conflict of interest to his being rewarded with printing contracts by the club.
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FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 13:18 - Feb 4 with 1621 views
Shaky did indeed send me an idea a few months ago (Sept 6 as it goes). We exchanged a couple of messages. Nothing more than that. I'm at a complete loss why this would ever be an issue. I've exchanged messages with dozens of people.
Here's the important stuff. The people that are advising the Trust have been listed in every statement we've released. We've been completely open and transparent in that regard. Shaky isn't one of them, and he's said the same himself.
FAO Ux and the Trust. Why have you not told everyone it sees the Accounts?? on 12:01 - Feb 4 by _
In fairness they waffled around the subject of player purchases in that Trust statement, which was pretty much a hatchet job on Jenkins. They also said they didn't know and for the owners to open up as to why decisions were made, so I think it's a bit of a stretch to say they've examined the accounts and they saw plenty of space for new signings.
From the statement...
''''Secondly, we call on the club’s majority owners to be totally transparent and communicate to the fans the reasons for taking the decisions they have taken and were prepared to take. If the reasons are purely financial then why haven’t the significant cuts being made on the playing side been reflected off the pitch? The club has a number of highly-paid executives strongly rumoured to be paid in line with Premier League income rather than that of a financially prudent Championship club'''
If.... If.... If... the reasons are purely financial..... ??!
And hasn't it since come to light the previous Chairman had taken a significant pay cut?
And hasn't it since come to light the previous Chairman had taken a significant pay cut? ………… all that will be shown in the accounts when we get to see them
Prosser the Tosser dwells on Phil's bum hole like a rusty old hemorrhoid ,fact
You Greedy Bastards Get Out Of OUR Club!
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