| Swansea financial sweepstake 09:57 - Jun 5 with 19269 views | Shaky |
for fun and education!
So I posted a chart in the long Potter thread that summarised the club's financial position, highlighting the relationship between the purchase of players and how they have been financed; overwhelmingly through the use of various forms of debt.
(Note: There's a typo on the 2017 total: should be £91.7m Not £97.1m)
What is interesting is to try to analyse where we stand today after the changes that have happened since the end of the last financial year 31 July 2017.
The asset side of that equation is relatively straight forward to forecast based on player ins and outs, and probably looks roughly as follows as of right now:
However, the player registrations component will obviously change before the end of the financial year due to transfers both in and out.
With that the financing needs also change. We are fairly certain that no new share capital will be provided by Kaplan & Co, but one way that the financing side will look better is by making profits such as on player sales that will boost shareholders' funds on the balance sheet. (the formula for that is last year's plus this year's profit after tax less any dividends paid).
As such the good news is that I estimate that as of right now profit on player sales is around £52 million for the current 2018 financial year to date.
The bad news is that despite this I still reckon the club will make a loss for the year:
However, the transfer season remains young, and estimates of the final 2018 tally for profit on player sales and any other metrics you want to take a stab at is now open until the close of business on 31st July.
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 01:33 - Jun 6 with 2372 views | E20Jack |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 00:58 - Jun 6 by omarjack |
Thanks Shaky 
That was very helpful and detailed..Although I can see the "fudging" and I guess it's ok because in the end of the day we don't have the exact official figures all the time and we have to be content with figures in the ballpark.
Oh and for tossers who are insulting you for no reason..lol if you don't like the thread or the poster etc just fack off as the Resurrection would say. |
Nobody is insulting him. We are making observations that he is peddling stuff he has spent months arguing against and now passing it off as his own thoughts. As he tends to do.
The excel sheet you refer to is very basic, and uses guessed figures skimmed from a website that values Alfie Mawson at £10m. That’s after you ignore the terrible attention to detail too. But that is not the bone of discussion here. |  |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 09:20 - Jun 6 with 2317 views | Shaky |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 22:25 - Jun 5 by Phil_S |
We got less than £40m for him - the figures quoted will include all add ons |
Here is your entry with the Siggy sale price at £40 million:
Thanks for playing! | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 09:23 - Jun 6 with 2314 views | omarjack |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 01:33 - Jun 6 by E20Jack |
Nobody is insulting him. We are making observations that he is peddling stuff he has spent months arguing against and now passing it off as his own thoughts. As he tends to do.
The excel sheet you refer to is very basic, and uses guessed figures skimmed from a website that values Alfie Mawson at £10m. That’s after you ignore the terrible attention to detail too. But that is not the bone of discussion here. |
According to official accounts the club spent 64 m on signings..These aren't my numbers or Shaky's..These are the actual figures..
In this period we bought the following players (value according to Transfermarkt):
-Mawson:5 m
-Narsingh:4 m
-VDH:2 m
-J.Ayew:5 m
-Borja:15 m
-Mesa:11 m
-Carroll:5 m
-Fer:5 m
-Olsson:5 m
-Llorente:6 m
Which sums up to 63 m! (if you don't believe me check the site and the fees if you care enough)
Don't bash on Transfermarkt it's very accurate considering most of the actual fees are not public..
As for Shaky changing his mind and adopting views he thought were wrong in the past..Guess what..
People make mistakes,Get informed better and learn from their previous errors..Nothing wrong with that..
Who's here hasn't posted something inaccurate to learn they've been way off mark all along? I've done it..What matters is to not insist on wrong but to grow and learn. |  |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 09:26 - Jun 6 with 2307 views | omarjack |
Hey Shaky..
What happens if a player is loaned out?
Also, for example if Bony is loaned out this season (practically released for free because his contract will run out) Will his "profit of player sale" gets affected? It'd be around -6 or -7 m right? or am I completely wrong? | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 09:29 - Jun 6 with 2307 views | Shaky |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 09:23 - Jun 6 by omarjack |
According to official accounts the club spent 64 m on signings..These aren't my numbers or Shaky's..These are the actual figures..
In this period we bought the following players (value according to Transfermarkt):
-Mawson:5 m
-Narsingh:4 m
-VDH:2 m
-J.Ayew:5 m
-Borja:15 m
-Mesa:11 m
-Carroll:5 m
-Fer:5 m
-Olsson:5 m
-Llorente:6 m
Which sums up to 63 m! (if you don't believe me check the site and the fees if you care enough)
Don't bash on Transfermarkt it's very accurate considering most of the actual fees are not public..
As for Shaky changing his mind and adopting views he thought were wrong in the past..Guess what..
People make mistakes,Get informed better and learn from their previous errors..Nothing wrong with that..
Who's here hasn't posted something inaccurate to learn they've been way off mark all along? I've done it..What matters is to not insist on wrong but to grow and learn. |
Dim is lying as usual, Omar.
I haven't changed my mind about anything he refers to. Nor have I incorporated any of his aherm teachings into my analytical approach.
Him and the Saviour are merely trying to deflect attention form the hard numbers that prove without question how disastrous Jenkins's transfer dealings have been for the club.
Let me repeat that: Disastrous.
Please allow them to rant on. They have zero credibility and have been heading well into negative territory for some time. | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 09:32 - Jun 6 with 2301 views | Shaky |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 09:26 - Jun 6 by omarjack |
Hey Shaky..
What happens if a player is loaned out?
Also, for example if Bony is loaned out this season (practically released for free because his contract will run out) Will his "profit of player sale" gets affected? It'd be around -6 or -7 m right? or am I completely wrong? |
Good question.
Ordinarily the amortisation charge will remain unchanged, while the lending club will pay some percentage of wages.
However, if the player is crocked or perhaps really really shit the accounting rules allow for some portion of the book value to be written off entirely.
However, this typically occurs via the amortisation charge, and there is no way of quantifying the precise impact of this from the accounts, if any. | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 09:32 - Jun 6 with 2301 views | omarjack |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 09:29 - Jun 6 by Shaky |
Dim is lying as usual, Omar.
I haven't changed my mind about anything he refers to. Nor have I incorporated any of his aherm teachings into my analytical approach.
Him and the Saviour are merely trying to deflect attention form the hard numbers that prove without question how disastrous Jenkins's transfer dealings have been for the club.
Let me repeat that: Disastrous.
Please allow them to rant on. They have zero credibility and have been heading well into negative territory for some time. |
I'm sorry if I insinuated that I put any credibility in what he said.
Keep up the good informative work.. | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 10:13 - Jun 6 with 2272 views | AlfieMooresSon |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:36 - Jun 5 by TheResurrection |
No, it really isn't.
We're on a pretty sound financial footing, especially with recent sales of players and the ones forecast to still be sold.
We're adjusting to life in the lower league so we'll now cut our cloth to suit our purse and that will mean boxing clever in the transfer market and new wages relative to our new surroundings.
We'll also attempt to sell our major assets, Mawson, Fab, Mesa and probably the Ayew's and Bony. This will give us further wiggle room. Throw in the parachute payments and for the first season in our history, we'll be starting life in our new division with one of, if not THE, biggest budgets in our league.
When have we ever been able to say that before.
You don't need complicated graphs and Anal terminology to tell us this.
Come on FFS.... |
Wow it's that easy, just sell all the players we want to, it doesn't matter what they earn they are so good other teams will bite our hands off for Bony and the rest, then we have a massive budget in the Championship and everything is rosy
I don't think it works like that !
The fact that Sunderland went down and Villa are in the shit shows how difficult this year could be?
[Post edited 6 Jun 2018 11:13]
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 11:46 - Jun 6 with 2250 views | Shaky |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 19:31 - Jun 5 by londonlisa2001 |
I understood it fine Shaky.
I attempted to point out that ignoring player trading was missing quite an important part of the way our financials work but you wouldn’t accept what I was saying.
What you are doing now is attempting to include player trading in your numbers which is what I said at the time was needed.
And your first statement is incorrect. |
For the sake of good order let's just put this little lie to bed that you and Dim are peddling, shall we?
https://wwww.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/swanseacity/forum/219920/page:2 | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 12:31 - Jun 6 with 2228 views | swanforthemoney |
A paragraph from one of the postings above:
"Players sold/let go this financial year:
- Gylfi Siggurdsen
- Fernando Llorente
- Modou Barrow
- Franck Tabanou
- Marvin Emnes"
When I read the juxtaposition of names on this list I couldnt help but smile. Then I thought about it a bit and felt more like bursting into tears. How did it come to this ? |  |
| I stand in the North Stand
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 12:32 - Jun 6 with 2226 views | omarjack |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 12:31 - Jun 6 by swanforthemoney |
A paragraph from one of the postings above:
"Players sold/let go this financial year:
- Gylfi Siggurdsen
- Fernando Llorente
- Modou Barrow
- Franck Tabanou
- Marvin Emnes"
When I read the juxtaposition of names on this list I couldnt help but smile. Then I thought about it a bit and felt more like bursting into tears. How did it come to this ? |
I understand what you mean..losing Tabanou and Emnes..I can't..just can't. | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 13:53 - Jun 6 with 2196 views | Shaky |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 12:31 - Jun 6 by swanforthemoney |
A paragraph from one of the postings above:
"Players sold/let go this financial year:
- Gylfi Siggurdsen
- Fernando Llorente
- Modou Barrow
- Franck Tabanou
- Marvin Emnes"
When I read the juxtaposition of names on this list I couldnt help but smile. Then I thought about it a bit and felt more like bursting into tears. How did it come to this ? |
Don't knock it.
It was getting rid of deadwood like Emnes, Tabanou, One Trick Pony and the Wardrobe and replacing them with dynamic prospects like Bony, Mesa, and Clucas, that contributed to producing the "best transfer season ever" in the words of two of Planet Swan's leading footballing strategists. | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 14:03 - Jun 6 with 2184 views | TheResurrection |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 13:53 - Jun 6 by Shaky |
Don't knock it.
It was getting rid of deadwood like Emnes, Tabanou, One Trick Pony and the Wardrobe and replacing them with dynamic prospects like Bony, Mesa, and Clucas, that contributed to producing the "best transfer season ever" in the words of two of Planet Swan's leading footballing strategists. |
Imagine using hindsight as a weapon to prove your worth.
Truth of the matter is the squad should have been good enough for us to stay up comfortably. I think it's fair to say we were mismanaged to the point of almost no return by Paul Clement.
We'll never know how things might have been if we had a different manager, or if he'd gone sooner.
Only one thing we do know as fact, is your Danish book of graphs and spreadsheets is only interesting to the right f#cking weirdo Omar. Why don't you bounce him on your knee and teach him all you know.... You could do it during a half time break. |  |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 14:26 - Jun 6 with 2169 views | Shaky |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 14:03 - Jun 6 by TheResurrection |
Imagine using hindsight as a weapon to prove your worth.
Truth of the matter is the squad should have been good enough for us to stay up comfortably. I think it's fair to say we were mismanaged to the point of almost no return by Paul Clement.
We'll never know how things might have been if we had a different manager, or if he'd gone sooner.
Only one thing we do know as fact, is your Danish book of graphs and spreadsheets is only interesting to the right f#cking weirdo Omar. Why don't you bounce him on your knee and teach him all you know.... You could do it during a half time break. |
Yah, hindsight is a wonderful thing for cretins like you and Dim who can't get a fcuking thing right to save your lives.
https://wwww.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/swanseacity/forum/208392/page:2 | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 14:43 - Jun 6 with 2148 views | TheResurrection |
So it turned out the posters who were concerned about Bony and Sanches were right
This didn't mean it was always going to pan out like that or you'll be proved right ever again.
Take your time with that Denmark. Try to get it sunk in to that thick skull of yours. | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 14:52 - Jun 6 with 2137 views | Jack11 |
Football is a simple game complicated by idiots. | | | |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 21:57 - Jun 6 with 2062 views | omarjack |
Shaky..
I have few questions and bear with me here.
1-Why do you think the wage bill reached around 115 m from 99 m the year before that? I don't see how.
2-How does "profit from sale" gets recorded in case of a loss? For example..if we bought Borja for 15 m..His amortisation is about 3 m/year..he already spent 2 years of his 5 years contract which means his book value now is around 9 m..True? Let's assume we sold him for 2 m this window..Would his "profit from sale" be around -7 m? Am I doing this correctly? | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 03:13 - Jun 7 with 2026 views | E20Jack |
We’ll it looks like Nivvy is alive and well thankfully, I was getting worried
At least Shaky now has competition for plagiarism and record numbers of threads created that nobody responds to. | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 07:52 - Jun 7 with 1994 views | Shaky |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 21:57 - Jun 6 by omarjack |
Shaky..
I have few questions and bear with me here.
1-Why do you think the wage bill reached around 115 m from 99 m the year before that? I don't see how.
2-How does "profit from sale" gets recorded in case of a loss? For example..if we bought Borja for 15 m..His amortisation is about 3 m/year..he already spent 2 years of his 5 years contract which means his book value now is around 9 m..True? Let's assume we sold him for 2 m this window..Would his "profit from sale" be around -7 m? Am I doing this correctly? |
The increase in the wage bill is a guesstimate.
Relative to the prior financial year, the following players dropped out at the end:
- Bafétimbi Gomis
- Jack Cork
- Gylfi Siggurdsen
- Fernando Llorente
- Modou Barrow
- Franck Tabanou
- Marvin Emnes
In for the start of the new financial year were:
- Roque Mesa
- Sam Clucas
- Wilf Bony
Plus the loan signings of
- Tammy Adraham
- Renato Sanches
Furthermore the prior financial year January signings of
- luciano Narsingh
- Martin Olsson
- Tom Carrol
- Jordan Ayew
were only included for half the financial year and need to be increasedy accordingly while Andre Ayew was resigned in January 2018.
Finally to the estimates of wage packets you have to add employers' national insurance contributions at 13.8% although the effective rate historically for the club is a little lower.
The other issue is that in the 2017 financial year Guido and Bradly were sacked, while Clement got the boot in 20018. Financially I see the impact on the 2 years as broadly similar. | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 07:54 - Jun 7 with 1993 views | Shaky |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 03:13 - Jun 7 by E20Jack |
We’ll it looks like Nivvy is alive and well thankfully, I was getting worried
At least Shaky now has competition for plagiarism and record numbers of threads created that nobody responds to. |
Glad to see you back fighting fit having been proved once again to be a worthless lying piece of shit with not an ounce of shame anywhere in your body. | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 08:05 - Jun 7 with 1989 views | Shaky |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 21:57 - Jun 6 by omarjack |
Shaky..
I have few questions and bear with me here.
1-Why do you think the wage bill reached around 115 m from 99 m the year before that? I don't see how.
2-How does "profit from sale" gets recorded in case of a loss? For example..if we bought Borja for 15 m..His amortisation is about 3 m/year..he already spent 2 years of his 5 years contract which means his book value now is around 9 m..True? Let's assume we sold him for 2 m this window..Would his "profit from sale" be around -7 m? Am I doing this correctly? |
Sorry, i forgot all about part 2.
You are basically right, but I have Baston signed on a 4 year contract for £17.8m after agents etc, which implies his book value right now is £4.5m.
Selling him for £2m would theoretically produce a £ 2.5m loss, to be subtracted from the positive profits.
On one of the tables I posted you can see a similar estimated effect with Tabanou and Emnes both let go on free transfers.
The more interesting aspect to this is that the weak financial position of the club has in my view been an important obstacle to keeping the squad healthy.
While it has been obvious Jenkins has been selling the best players for big profits to fund the club, the corollary to that is failed signings especially the big ones have been retained because it would be too expensive to write them off. | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 08:55 - Jun 7 with 1973 views | omarjack |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 08:05 - Jun 7 by Shaky |
Sorry, i forgot all about part 2.
You are basically right, but I have Baston signed on a 4 year contract for £17.8m after agents etc, which implies his book value right now is £4.5m.
Selling him for £2m would theoretically produce a £ 2.5m loss, to be subtracted from the positive profits.
On one of the tables I posted you can see a similar estimated effect with Tabanou and Emnes both let go on free transfers.
The more interesting aspect to this is that the weak financial position of the club has in my view been an important obstacle to keeping the squad healthy.
While it has been obvious Jenkins has been selling the best players for big profits to fund the club, the corollary to that is failed signings especially the big ones have been retained because it would be too expensive to write them off. |
But the result is the same eventually..It might be too expensive to "write off" but these players are still on the books sucking wages without contributing f*ck all on the field. Shambles. | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 09:00 - Jun 7 with 1968 views | Shaky |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 08:55 - Jun 7 by omarjack |
But the result is the same eventually..It might be too expensive to "write off" but these players are still on the books sucking wages without contributing f*ck all on the field. Shambles. |
Not if they are on loan, with another club paying a significant portion of their wages.
But it is shuffling the problem around, and invariably that leads to a day of reckoning, which is where we are right now.
Unless the strategy is to push the same problems even further out and make a hail Mary stab at promotion.
The problem with that is that the club has categorically demonstrated it is unable to generate a positive financial return even in the Prem. the whole situation is a bit of a basket case. | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 09:35 - Jun 7 with 1949 views | trampie |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 07:54 - Jun 7 by Shaky |
Glad to see you back fighting fit having been proved once again to be a worthless lying piece of shit with not an ounce of shame anywhere in your body. |
Well written appraisal of E20 that Shaky, you have a way with words.  |  |
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