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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 08:18 - Mar 25 by nice_to_michu
oh dear, oh dear.
"Equal funding with Scotland" - Labour have pledged to address the funding gap with a revision of the Barnett Formula. Plaid are only joining in support of a policy that Labour has already pledged.
The difference of course is Plaid could never hope to actually influence such a policy because they will never hold the balance of power in Westminster.
So - in summary, you are actually suggesting that not to ask for and not to campaign for fair funding is the best approach to achieving, well,.... fair funding ? Thats brilliant.
Labour has already failed to address this issue when it was in power of course. That idiot Miliband defended it. I accept for London based parties its not their priority. Which sort of makes the point.
Vote Leanne.....
Beware of the Risen People
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 10:06 - Mar 25 with 1658 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 08:26 - Mar 25 by Kilkennyjack
So - in summary, you are actually suggesting that not to ask for and not to campaign for fair funding is the best approach to achieving, well,.... fair funding ? Thats brilliant.
Labour has already failed to address this issue when it was in power of course. That idiot Miliband defended it. I accept for London based parties its not their priority. Which sort of makes the point.
Vote Leanne.....
Ughhh what?
I said "Labour have pledged to address the funding gap with a revision of the Barnett formula".
Jeremy Corbyn: "The Barnett Formula is outdated and needs reviewing. It was only ever intended as a temporary mechanism and it has long since outlived its usefulness — as its originator, the late Joel Barnett, acknowledged".
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 10:59 - Mar 25 with 1643 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 22:05 - Mar 24 by union_jack
Will they though? That's a genuine question by the way.
I don't think any party will change things significantly. The same gap pens in England where London gets the lion's share and understandably. Only relatively recently has funding gone towards the northern powerhouse.
Plaid may make some noises about equal distribution but merely as a vote catcher. Don't see them doing it to any signify picante amount though.
They may not, but we know that Labour certainly will not. I'm not voting for Plaid because I want independence, or because I believe they will fix the Barnett formula. Contrary to what nice_to_michu thinks, I believe our problems (in Swansea) lie solely with the WAG. Cardiff has benefited massively under devolution, and the Barnett formula hasn't been a hindrance to them. More money for Wales, at the moment, merely means more money for Cardiff. They'll start building other tourist attractions there - last summer they even started building 'beaches' in Cardiff Bay so people never have to leave the city and can keep the wealth centralised.
We need a government who will invest in Swansea. Yes, London does get the lions share, but look at Birmingham/Machester/Newcastle/Liverpool/Bristol, these cities have all seen massive development, despite not being the capital. As has Glasgow in Scotland. Our problem lies at home. Labour have a lot to answer for.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 10:59 - Mar 25 by CopperJack
They may not, but we know that Labour certainly will not. I'm not voting for Plaid because I want independence, or because I believe they will fix the Barnett formula. Contrary to what nice_to_michu thinks, I believe our problems (in Swansea) lie solely with the WAG. Cardiff has benefited massively under devolution, and the Barnett formula hasn't been a hindrance to them. More money for Wales, at the moment, merely means more money for Cardiff. They'll start building other tourist attractions there - last summer they even started building 'beaches' in Cardiff Bay so people never have to leave the city and can keep the wealth centralised.
We need a government who will invest in Swansea. Yes, London does get the lions share, but look at Birmingham/Machester/Newcastle/Liverpool/Bristol, these cities have all seen massive development, despite not being the capital. As has Glasgow in Scotland. Our problem lies at home. Labour have a lot to answer for.
When asked about the Barnett Formula, Leanne Wood said that Wales should be receiving an extra £1.2 billion, and remarked that:
"It’s money we need to get our economy into the place that we need so we can stand on our own two feet".
An extra £1.2 billion is 8% of the Welsh Government's budget. Leanne Wood seems to think its the only way Wales can get back on its "own feet", yet is entirely powerless to achieving that aim. These are her words, not anyone else's.
As I've said before, no party is perfect. If there was a party that pledged to make a barrage in Swansea Bay, so that the tide was permanently in (I think it is beautiful then, and ugly when its out) then I would vote for it. Alas, it doesn't exist, so instead I go for my second preference which I hope will deliver economic justice for a majority of people.
The first-past-the-post system is here to stay, at least for another generation or more (given we have already had a vote on that). The only way Plaid can hope to genuinely influence policy in a Westminster would be in a coalition, achieved via a proportional representation electoral system. That isn't going to happen. So instead, everyone in Wales fights for the crumbs dished out by London and the Tories sit back and laugh at the "left-wing" splitting their votes and letting Cameron and his friends in.
So if Leanne Wood becomes First Minister, and dishes out money to Swansea and other areas, what do you do then? People in Wales will still be crushed by austerity measures impacting policies that the WAG doesn't handle, e.g. income tax, corporation tax, benefits, foreign policy, defence policy immigration, policing, privatization of industries/institutions (steel, trains, coal, land registry etc.).
Are you willing to let conservative ideology dominate these policies for the foreseeable future?
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 14:51 - Mar 25 with 1613 views
Labour are a right wing party and have been for decades, they are a low tax, low spend party, Labour are traitors to the working class and poor, they are not called Red Tories for nothing.
For anybody to say, not voting Labour but voting for a bona fide left of centre party in the form of Plaid is splitting the left wing vote is nonsense, Labour are a neoliberal right wing party, their policies under Tony Blair were more right wing than what the Conservatives were under Mrs Thatcher.
You can barely get a fag paper between Labour and the Conservatives policies half the time, Labour and the Conservatives are the same, both Brit Nat, right wing, austerity parties.
[Post edited 25 Mar 2016 14:53]
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 14:51 - Mar 25 by trampie
Labour are a right wing party and have been for decades, they are a low tax, low spend party, Labour are traitors to the working class and poor, they are not called Red Tories for nothing.
For anybody to say, not voting Labour but voting for a bona fide left of centre party in the form of Plaid is splitting the left wing vote is nonsense, Labour are a neoliberal right wing party, their policies under Tony Blair were more right wing than what the Conservatives were under Mrs Thatcher.
You can barely get a fag paper between Labour and the Conservatives policies half the time, Labour and the Conservatives are the same, both Brit Nat, right wing, austerity parties.
[Post edited 25 Mar 2016 14:53]
They're not called the Red Tories at all.
Apart from by you of course, but then you are a bit of a loon.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 15:59 - Mar 25 with 1583 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 15:41 - Mar 25 by Dr_Winston
They're not called the Red Tories at all.
Apart from by you of course, but then you are a bit of a loon.
Labour are universally called the Red Tories you thicko, particularly it must be said by a lot of Scots, the recent general election seen 'fans' chanting ''Red Tories out'', placards with the same slogans were also about.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 16:06 - Mar 25 by trampie
Labour are universally called the Red Tories you thicko, particularly it must be said by a lot of Scots, the recent general election seen 'fans' chanting ''Red Tories out'', placards with the same slogans were also about.
If Labour were "universally called" Red tories, that would mean they would be called that by everyone. Since this label is more than up for dispute it's obviously not a universal label.
You're becoming a parody of yourself now.
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 16:19 - Mar 25 with 1560 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 16:13 - Mar 25 by acejack3065
If Labour were "universally called" Red tories, that would mean they would be called that by everyone. Since this label is more than up for dispute it's obviously not a universal label.
You're becoming a parody of yourself now.
I propose that we, as a group of adults interested in sensible discussion, collectively ignore any posts by Trampie.
Let him have conversations with himself, although I fear that is already happening.
I'm going to ignore him from this point forward.
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 16:30 - Mar 25 with 1546 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 16:13 - Mar 25 by acejack3065
If Labour were "universally called" Red tories, that would mean they would be called that by everyone. Since this label is more than up for dispute it's obviously not a universal label.
You're becoming a parody of yourself now.
Just put in Labour Red Tories and look at images, you will see pics of 32 Scottish Labour MP's with the headline 'Red Tories', you will see at least two photo's of a massive 'Red Tories Out' banner, you will see posters with 'Red Tories Out' on it, you will see a badge with 'Better Dead than a Red Tory' on it and so on.
Then you could look at video's and see 'Labours Red Tories attack Russia and China', 'Labour Party are just Tories painted Red' and the 'Red Tories and the Scottish referendum' with a photo of Gordon Brown and so on and so on.
Truth hurts hey, lol.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 16:30 - Mar 25 by Kilkennyjack
I have heard the term Red Tories many times. Just saying.
Yeh, of course I've heard it, I just don't agree that's all. It was a useful term for the SNP during an election campaign, but an exaggeration nonetheless.
Jeremy Corbyn is so obviously not right-wing. Tramp knows that, and it ruins his argument. Therefore we should ignore him.
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 16:53 - Mar 25 with 1529 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 16:46 - Mar 25 by trampie
Just put in Labour Red Tories and look at images, you will see pics of 32 Scottish Labour MP's with the headline 'Red Tories', you will see at least two photo's of a massive 'Red Tories Out' banner, you will see posters with 'Red Tories Out' on it, you will see a badge with 'Better Dead than a Red Tory' on it and so on.
Then you could look at video's and see 'Labours Red Tories attack Russia and China', 'Labour Party are just Tories painted Red' and the 'Red Tories and the Scottish referendum' with a photo of Gordon Brown and so on and so on.
Truth hurts hey, lol.
Yes well that seals it then. Scottish nationalists with banners certainly trumps anything that Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour party or indeed myself say or believe.
I must be a red tory because there are banners on google images. Outstanding.
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 16:54 - Mar 25 with 1525 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 16:19 - Mar 25 by nice_to_michu
I propose that we, as a group of adults interested in sensible discussion, collectively ignore any posts by Trampie.
Let him have conversations with himself, although I fear that is already happening.
I'm going to ignore him from this point forward.
Oh trying to shutdown debate is ?, you have the evidence of where Labour are on the Political Compass site, you can check for yourself via search engines that Labour had lower taxes and lower spend than Mrs Thatchers Government, you can read/view/watch people describing Labour as Red Tories via searches.
I even told you about Rachel Reeves and what she said about Labour not representing people on benefits and that she thinks people earning £60k are not rich.
So if you try and say Labour are left wing I will challenge you or others saying the same thing, as I have produced some of the above as evidence that Labour are anything but left wing.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 16:53 - Mar 25 by acejack3065
Yes well that seals it then. Scottish nationalists with banners certainly trumps anything that Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour party or indeed myself say or believe.
I must be a red tory because there are banners on google images. Outstanding.
Don't change the goalposts people call Labour Red Tories not just me, its a common description of Labour.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 16:53 - Mar 25 by nice_to_michu
Yeh, of course I've heard it, I just don't agree that's all. It was a useful term for the SNP during an election campaign, but an exaggeration nonetheless.
Jeremy Corbyn is so obviously not right-wing. Tramp knows that, and it ruins his argument. Therefore we should ignore him.
You have heard of Red Tories you say, but don't agree with it, so anybody using it you want to ignore them is it.
Labour are Red Tories, that is why people call them Red Tories, get used to it because i'm going to be using it big time on this site to describe Labour, so punters that are not politically clued will hopefully know what they are due to Trampie's fair and just description.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 17:06 - Mar 25 by trampie
You have heard of Red Tories you say, but don't agree with it, so anybody using it you want to ignore them is it.
Labour are Red Tories, that is why people call them Red Tories, get used to it because i'm going to be using it big time on this site to describe Labour, so punters that are not politically clued will hopefully know what they are due to Trampie's fair and just description.
you need help lol
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 17:33 - Mar 25 with 1478 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 17:26 - Mar 25 by acejack3065
you need help lol
On the contrary young acejack3065 its you need help, being on the left of the Conservative party is not being on the left wing, an inside right is on the left of his right winger but he is still out on the right hand side of the pitch.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 17:33 - Mar 25 by trampie
On the contrary young acejack3065 its you need help, being on the left of the Conservative party is not being on the left wing, an inside right is on the left of his right winger but he is still out on the right hand side of the pitch.
But what if the other night I left my right hand right by the inside left of Ian Wrights house which hand should I write with, my left or my right, right?
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 18:05 - Mar 25 with 1457 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 17:41 - Mar 25 by acejack3065
But what if the other night I left my right hand right by the inside left of Ian Wrights house which hand should I write with, my left or my right, right?
Mrs Thatcher won the war, her greatest achievement was NuLabour, some Labour people observe 'we are all children of Thatcher now', I say oi Red Tory speak for yourself.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 16:54 - Mar 25 by trampie
Oh trying to shutdown debate is ?, you have the evidence of where Labour are on the Political Compass site, you can check for yourself via search engines that Labour had lower taxes and lower spend than Mrs Thatchers Government, you can read/view/watch people describing Labour as Red Tories via searches.
I even told you about Rachel Reeves and what she said about Labour not representing people on benefits and that she thinks people earning £60k are not rich.
So if you try and say Labour are left wing I will challenge you or others saying the same thing, as I have produced some of the above as evidence that Labour are anything but left wing.
Tramps, I'll try and keep this as simple as I can for you.
1.) The political compass website is neither a definitive nor accurate measurement of political position.
2.) The position of Labour on their chart is based (inaccurately in my opinion) on pre May 2015 policies. As you may or may not remember, since May 2015 there was a long, drawn out leadership selection process that saw Jeremy Corbyn, a Bennite socialist, selected as leader by a landslide. The membership of the party has doubled to almost 400,000 since May 2015 with people (re)joining the party because of its very definite shift back to the left. And John McDonnell, who says his hobby is "generally fermenting the overthrow of capitalism", was appointed as shadow chancellor and Joseph Stilgitz, Thomas Piketty, Paul Mason and Yanis Varoufakis have been appointed as economic advisers to Labour.
3.) Rachel Reeves is no longer shadow work & pensions secretary, why don't you tell us what Owen Smith is saying about people on benefits instead.
So do me a favour and explain to me how that makes Labour right wing or slightly to the left of the Tories?
If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys?
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