| Question for the Trust to answer please 20:49 - Dec 18 with 18759 views | _ |
Bulk Vending received £90k+ in the last set of accounts, that's Leigh Dineens company. This is on top of his salary.
Can you explain what Bulk Vending are exactly invoicing the club for?
Can you find this out by Monday 22nd December by any chance? |  |
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| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:23 - Dec 19 with 1696 views | _ |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:11 - Dec 19 by londonlisa2001 |
one small point that actually makes a lot of difference in practice is that we don't have a say over 21% of the money. Instead we have a 21% say over all the money.
That may sound like semantics, but if you think about it, it makes quite a difference in exactly what the Trust can and can't do. |
Lisa what right do we have to scrutinise the awards of contracts and the general accounts of the club and voice our concerns if necessary? | |
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| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:25 - Dec 19 with 1690 views | Gowerjack |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:10 - Dec 19 by Ponderosa |
Sugar sachets, ketchup sachets, bottles of water, lucozade etc all have to come from somewhere. These will have to be bought wholesale rather than having youth players getting lost in Asda getting the stocks replenished. So the club either opens an account with a delivered wholesaler like Palmer and Harvey or 3663 or they pay somebody to go to Bookers to get their goods on a full time basis |
The stadium catering is subcontracted therefore the purchasing of supplies is nothing to do with the club.
Do you seriously believe that a football club buys it's own sachets of HP sauce?
Christ on a bike it's like a window lickers convention on here sometimes. |  |
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| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:28 - Dec 19 with 1683 views | Ponderosa |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:25 - Dec 19 by Gowerjack |
The stadium catering is subcontracted therefore the purchasing of supplies is nothing to do with the club.
Do you seriously believe that a football club buys it's own sachets of HP sauce?
Christ on a bike it's like a window lickers convention on here sometimes. |
Thats the point I was making. If it wasn't Bulk Vending getting £90k it would be Booker or 3663. There wont be somebody at the club doing it themselves! |  |
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| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:30 - Dec 19 with 1674 views | dgt73 |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:22 - Dec 19 by pencoedjack |
I wonder if other teams message boards question where the players get there after training lucozade from. |
Lol. |  |
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| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:34 - Dec 19 with 1661 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:23 - Dec 19 by _ |
Lisa what right do we have to scrutinise the awards of contracts and the general accounts of the club and voice our concerns if necessary? |
well 'The Trust' has the same rights as any other shareholder through its shareholding and the same rights as any other director through its seat on the Board.
But those rights are granted to the Supporters' Director (on the board) and I guess the Trust Board as a whole re the shareholding (or possibly the Trust Chair - I don't know what the mechanics are - it depends on the Trust constitution).
Does any individual Trust member have rights to scrutinise contracts? No.
General accounts? Well any individual trust member can purchase a set of private company accounts from Companies House when issued and raise questions to the Trust Board if there are aspects that they are unhappy with.
But the reality is that you are asking detailed questions as though you have a right to know the answers and you actually don't. It's the same as being a member of a pension fund that has a shareholding in Vodafone. The Vodafone board would listen to the concerns of the reps of the pension fund, but wouldn't extend that right to an individual member of the fund.
The 'right' way to do it is to raise concerns with the Trust board and if they believe it to be an issue, they will go from there. They are more likely in my view to listen if done through appropriate channels rather than in what looks like a witch hunt online.
We all raise concerns as fans - I raised one just yesterday about mascot prices which in my view are terrible. But that is very different to talking about contractual agreements that the club has with suppliers. In my view, of course. |  | | |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:40 - Dec 19 with 1642 views | dgt73 |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:34 - Dec 19 by londonlisa2001 |
well 'The Trust' has the same rights as any other shareholder through its shareholding and the same rights as any other director through its seat on the Board.
But those rights are granted to the Supporters' Director (on the board) and I guess the Trust Board as a whole re the shareholding (or possibly the Trust Chair - I don't know what the mechanics are - it depends on the Trust constitution).
Does any individual Trust member have rights to scrutinise contracts? No.
General accounts? Well any individual trust member can purchase a set of private company accounts from Companies House when issued and raise questions to the Trust Board if there are aspects that they are unhappy with.
But the reality is that you are asking detailed questions as though you have a right to know the answers and you actually don't. It's the same as being a member of a pension fund that has a shareholding in Vodafone. The Vodafone board would listen to the concerns of the reps of the pension fund, but wouldn't extend that right to an individual member of the fund.
The 'right' way to do it is to raise concerns with the Trust board and if they believe it to be an issue, they will go from there. They are more likely in my view to listen if done through appropriate channels rather than in what looks like a witch hunt online.
We all raise concerns as fans - I raised one just yesterday about mascot prices which in my view are terrible. But that is very different to talking about contractual agreements that the club has with suppliers. In my view, of course. |
I can't believe people wouldn't have already known what you said in your above post. A fan of the Swans or trust member as you have said has no right to know about contracts. [Post edited 19 Dec 2014 13:47]
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| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:45 - Dec 19 with 1629 views | Shaky |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:40 - Dec 19 by dgt73 |
I can't believe people wouldn't have already known what you said in your above post. A fan of the Swans or trust member as you have said has no right to know about contracts. [Post edited 19 Dec 2014 13:47]
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Oh dear.
If the Trust member in question is the supporters director, he doesn't have the right to know about potentially conflicted contracts.
He has the **obligation**.
Not only in terms of his duties as a officer of the club but also as a representative of the Trust to seek answers to any reasonable queries they may have. |  |
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| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:47 - Dec 19 with 1618 views | Parlay |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:40 - Dec 19 by dgt73 |
I can't believe people wouldn't have already known what you said in your above post. A fan of the Swans or trust member as you have said has no right to know about contracts. [Post edited 19 Dec 2014 13:47]
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What? He/she is obligated to know you plank. |  |
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| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:48 - Dec 19 with 1615 views | dgt73 |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:45 - Dec 19 by Shaky |
Oh dear.
If the Trust member in question is the supporters director, he doesn't have the right to know about potentially conflicted contracts.
He has the **obligation**.
Not only in terms of his duties as a officer of the club but also as a representative of the Trust to seek answers to any reasonable queries they may have. |
I'm not talking about the trusts board member. | |
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| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:48 - Dec 19 with 1613 views | Shaky |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:47 - Dec 19 by Parlay |
What? He/she is obligated to know you plank. |
In his defence he is merely parroting Lisa. | |
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| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:49 - Dec 19 with 1602 views | dgt73 |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:47 - Dec 19 by Parlay |
What? He/she is obligated to know you plank. |
I think you need to go to bed for a few hrs. | |
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| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:51 - Dec 19 with 1594 views | Parlay |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:48 - Dec 19 by Shaky |
In his defence he is merely parroting Lisa. |
You would think looking a plum on one thread would be enough for him wouldn't you. | |
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| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:52 - Dec 19 with 1586 views | sixpenses |
Surely the best way would be for this information to be made available via the Trust Director if any concerns are expressed. I imagine T2C is concerned if it is put through the normal channels (and I am unclear what they actually are) then our club could already have been sold down the river before any answers are forthcoming.
Surely auditors are not seen as carrying our a witch hunt they are just exercising proper controls. If a club owner (by the previous definition) puts forward a reasonable question then surely it is in everyones interest to show that those monies have been properly accounted for and the services rendered were commissioned on the basis of VFM with no advantage given to internal bidders for the contract. As pointed out it is business and proper business controls are not personal. | | | |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 14:02 - Dec 19 with 1569 views | Shaky |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:52 - Dec 19 by sixpenses |
Surely the best way would be for this information to be made available via the Trust Director if any concerns are expressed. I imagine T2C is concerned if it is put through the normal channels (and I am unclear what they actually are) then our club could already have been sold down the river before any answers are forthcoming.
Surely auditors are not seen as carrying our a witch hunt they are just exercising proper controls. If a club owner (by the previous definition) puts forward a reasonable question then surely it is in everyones interest to show that those monies have been properly accounted for and the services rendered were commissioned on the basis of VFM with no advantage given to internal bidders for the contract. As pointed out it is business and proper business controls are not personal. |
Legally the way it works is the shareholders appoint the board of directors to monitor the operations of the company, including its management, auditors etc, on their behalf. | |
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| Question for the Trust to answer please on 14:02 - Dec 19 with 1569 views | shandyjack |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:13 - Dec 19 by _ |
So Leigh Dineens company has this contract does he? |
Does it matter if he does? As long as he is competitive with prices in regards to companies that can offer same stock |  |
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| Question for the Trust to answer please on 14:12 - Dec 19 with 1414 views | sixpenses |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 14:02 - Dec 19 by Shaky |
Legally the way it works is the shareholders appoint the board of directors to monitor the operations of the company, including its management, auditors etc, on their behalf. |
Indeed and one of the Board of Directors is answerable to Trust Members. In fact is their representative. So if reasonable questions are asked they should be answered - no problem if no problem.
Obviously in your scenario there are exceptional actions possible if actual serious concerns of abuse were raised. | | | |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 14:23 - Dec 19 with 1381 views | skippyjack |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:21 - Dec 19 by Parlay |
No he isnt. |
Well if it's part of his dividend in which everyone has agreed on.. why isn't he? |  |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Question for the Trust to answer please on 14:23 - Dec 19 with 1380 views | _ |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:45 - Dec 19 by Shaky |
Oh dear.
If the Trust member in question is the supporters director, he doesn't have the right to know about potentially conflicted contracts.
He has the **obligation**.
Not only in terms of his duties as a officer of the club but also as a representative of the Trust to seek answers to any reasonable queries they may have. |
Which doesn't help when our Trust Director also has business interests in the club.
I mean, is someone like this really going to raise these particular concerns?
And Lisa, all these huge contracts being paid from EPL money into Directors companies while almost every day there is someone on here complaining that everything is so expensive then we're bound to question aren't we??
But have we got the right people to do that? It seems not and it seems everyone wants to apologise on their behalf and do naff all about it.
It seems to me that everyone, and I mean everyone at Board level and even a little beyond has done very well and then you have the same people complaining about budgetary restraints on season ticket prices invoicing the club and for what???
I think we have a right to know because things aren't adding up. | |
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| Question for the Trust to answer please on 14:24 - Dec 19 with 1378 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 13:45 - Dec 19 by Shaky |
Oh dear.
If the Trust member in question is the supporters director, he doesn't have the right to know about potentially conflicted contracts.
He has the **obligation**.
Not only in terms of his duties as a officer of the club but also as a representative of the Trust to seek answers to any reasonable queries they may have. |
That'll be why I differentiated between the supporters director, the trust board and an individual member. An individual member in that scenario obviously doesn't mean the supporters director who has been separately defined. | | | |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 14:26 - Dec 19 with 1363 views | Shaky |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 14:12 - Dec 19 by sixpenses |
Indeed and one of the Board of Directors is answerable to Trust Members. In fact is their representative. So if reasonable questions are asked they should be answered - no problem if no problem.
Obviously in your scenario there are exceptional actions possible if actual serious concerns of abuse were raised. |
Hmmm. The directors are collectively and individually responsible to all shareholders, and they are bound to to so by company law.
But for me the SD should be a special instance. He shouldn't be answerable to the Trust, but instead be their voice.
It is hard to gauge from my somewhat distant perspective, but I am concerned he appears to be far too much his own man. In my view the Trust board should be basically directing the SD's agenda on the main club board in a fairly detailed manner.
And I suspect this issue is one of the main reasons for the Trust's lack of influence. | |
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| Question for the Trust to answer please on 14:29 - Dec 19 with 1347 views | skippyjack |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 14:26 - Dec 19 by Shaky |
Hmmm. The directors are collectively and individually responsible to all shareholders, and they are bound to to so by company law.
But for me the SD should be a special instance. He shouldn't be answerable to the Trust, but instead be their voice.
It is hard to gauge from my somewhat distant perspective, but I am concerned he appears to be far too much his own man. In my view the Trust board should be basically directing the SD's agenda on the main club board in a fairly detailed manner.
And I suspect this issue is one of the main reasons for the Trust's lack of influence. |
If it's part of his dividend package.. it's all fair.. | |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Question for the Trust to answer please on 14:32 - Dec 19 with 1338 views | sixpenses |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 14:26 - Dec 19 by Shaky |
Hmmm. The directors are collectively and individually responsible to all shareholders, and they are bound to to so by company law.
But for me the SD should be a special instance. He shouldn't be answerable to the Trust, but instead be their voice.
It is hard to gauge from my somewhat distant perspective, but I am concerned he appears to be far too much his own man. In my view the Trust board should be basically directing the SD's agenda on the main club board in a fairly detailed manner.
And I suspect this issue is one of the main reasons for the Trust's lack of influence. |
It certainly seems that way and regardless of the actual fact if people believe that it is still a concern. If that is actually the case a much bigger concern
In bodies like the Trust communication (NDA aside) and effectiv procedures for involvement and raising issues are obviously key. | | | |
| Question for the Trust to answer pleaser on 14:34 - Dec 19 with 1332 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Question for the Trust to answer please on 14:23 - Dec 19 by _ |
Which doesn't help when our Trust Director also has business interests in the club.
I mean, is someone like this really going to raise these particular concerns?
And Lisa, all these huge contracts being paid from EPL money into Directors companies while almost every day there is someone on here complaining that everything is so expensive then we're bound to question aren't we??
But have we got the right people to do that? It seems not and it seems everyone wants to apologise on their behalf and do naff all about it.
It seems to me that everyone, and I mean everyone at Board level and even a little beyond has done very well and then you have the same people complaining about budgetary restraints on season ticket prices invoicing the club and for what???
I think we have a right to know because things aren't adding up. |
I don't dispute even slightly the need to question. You asked me what rights an individual member had and I answered.
All I would say is that there appears to be a prevailing consensus from some posters that this site is a reasonable way to ask questions of the Trust board. Now I think that may be right to am extent as obviously members are active on here (members of the trust board that is) but I would imagine that if there is a genuine concern about a contract, it may be easier or preferable to get Phil or anyone else to answer if done through the channels that they have in place. Either trust meetings (don't mean the things with the players and huw I mean meetings of the trust itself) or through the trust website. | | | |
| Question for the Trust to answer pleaser on 14:35 - Dec 19 with 1322 views | _ |
| Question for the Trust to answer pleaser on 14:34 - Dec 19 by londonlisa2001 |
I don't dispute even slightly the need to question. You asked me what rights an individual member had and I answered.
All I would say is that there appears to be a prevailing consensus from some posters that this site is a reasonable way to ask questions of the Trust board. Now I think that may be right to am extent as obviously members are active on here (members of the trust board that is) but I would imagine that if there is a genuine concern about a contract, it may be easier or preferable to get Phil or anyone else to answer if done through the channels that they have in place. Either trust meetings (don't mean the things with the players and huw I mean meetings of the trust itself) or through the trust website. |
Ok so who do we turn to here?
Oh yeah, our Supporters Director...
But hang on....
He's one in question!!
Oh god.......... | |
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| Question for the Trust to answer pleaser on 14:37 - Dec 19 with 1316 views | Shaky |
| Question for the Trust to answer pleaser on 14:35 - Dec 19 by _ |
Ok so who do we turn to here?
Oh yeah, our Supporters Director...
But hang on....
He's one in question!!
Oh god.......... |
No, you turn to the Trust board and make sure the SD starts to receive direction. | |
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