| this new stadium that we want to build? 20:51 - Dec 6 with 6680 views | HollowayRanger |
if we do managed to ever get it built and leave the safety of the bush
where we gonna get our points from! |  |
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| this new stadium that we want to build? on 21:00 - Dec 6 with 3746 views | Juzzie |
Tesco Clubcard? |  | | |
| this new stadium that we want to build? on 21:03 - Dec 6 with 3735 views | karl |
Disclaimer: I dont have the emotional connection most of you do have for LR
If its built similar to MK Dons with a lower and upper ring it would just about work.
25,000 in lower ring built very much like LR and another 10-15,000 in an upper ring. Dont sell a season ticket in the upper ring and only open sections when lower area sold out. Think i have seen a ground where they have a removable netting which is designed to keep the noise in from this lower section when the upper is unused.
Not quite connected to what Holloway is getting at but hopefully something like that would be in their minds |  | | |
| this new stadium that we want to build? on 21:06 - Dec 6 with 3707 views | HollowayRanger |
| this new stadium that we want to build? on 21:03 - Dec 6 by karl |
Disclaimer: I dont have the emotional connection most of you do have for LR
If its built similar to MK Dons with a lower and upper ring it would just about work.
25,000 in lower ring built very much like LR and another 10-15,000 in an upper ring. Dont sell a season ticket in the upper ring and only open sections when lower area sold out. Think i have seen a ground where they have a removable netting which is designed to keep the noise in from this lower section when the upper is unused.
Not quite connected to what Holloway is getting at but hopefully something like that would be in their minds |
when they move for me they should just rebuild the loft but with higher larger wider stands and more leg room for everyone
but its vital they keep the tightness of the fans to the pitch | |
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| this new stadium that we want to build? on 21:10 - Dec 6 with 3695 views | Pablo_Hoopsta |
| this new stadium that we want to build? on 21:06 - Dec 6 by HollowayRanger |
when they move for me they should just rebuild the loft but with higher larger wider stands and more leg room for everyone
but its vital they keep the tightness of the fans to the pitch |
A bigger, nicer LR would be just the job. |  | | |
| this new stadium that we want to build? on 21:49 - Dec 6 with 3611 views | DylanP |
More food places. More toilets. More space outside the seating area. More space for knees. Is that too much to ask? Make the experience more fun and people will spend more in food and drink. Fans wins. Club wins. Please |  |
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| this new stadium that we want to build? on 21:51 - Dec 6 with 3606 views | qprewan |
It's funny but today I was thinking I really don't want to move from Loftus rd; nor do I buy the club line that we have to. I think that before making such a drastic step we should first exhaust all possible attempts to redevelop the existing ground.
Our ground was basically built in the 60s 70s and early 80s and modern architecture has improved massively since then. When you think about it there is space for the South Africa stand to be rebuilt. As for Loftus rd we could consider doing what Liverpool have done and buy up that part of the street; there is a council block, I think on the corner of Ellerslie rd and not that many houses. As for the Ellerslie rd stand itself, would it not be possible with today's engineering to go up higher and steeper? The school end is still a problem but I still think that maybe with standing areas and modern building we could get the capacity up to between 25 and 30 thousand which would be enough... |  | | |
| this new stadium that we want to build? on 22:07 - Dec 6 with 3561 views | loftboy |
| this new stadium that we want to build? on 21:51 - Dec 6 by qprewan |
It's funny but today I was thinking I really don't want to move from Loftus rd; nor do I buy the club line that we have to. I think that before making such a drastic step we should first exhaust all possible attempts to redevelop the existing ground.
Our ground was basically built in the 60s 70s and early 80s and modern architecture has improved massively since then. When you think about it there is space for the South Africa stand to be rebuilt. As for Loftus rd we could consider doing what Liverpool have done and buy up that part of the street; there is a council block, I think on the corner of Ellerslie rd and not that many houses. As for the Ellerslie rd stand itself, would it not be possible with today's engineering to go up higher and steeper? The school end is still a problem but I still think that maybe with standing areas and modern building we could get the capacity up to between 25 and 30 thousand which would be enough... |
Was thinking the same myself, I was quite ok with a new ground but the longer it's dragging on the more I want to stay at loftus rd, yes it's a shithole buts it's our shithole and I like my rain soaked seat in the west paddock. |  |
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| this new stadium that we want to build? on 00:01 - Dec 7 with 3454 views | HollowayRanger |
I know surely it would be cheaper if club bought up some of surrounding area around ground and rebuilt our own ground stand by stand
even buy some local ground space near by not big enough for stadium but to rehouse those whos houses/flats we need to knock down ,surly win win we get bigger ground they get new homes still in local area but away from the noise and hassle of match day fans | |
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| this new stadium that we want to build? on 00:07 - Dec 7 with 3447 views | vblockranger |
Love Loftus Rd and imo we will never move from there. TF is full of sh1t. |  | | |
| this new stadium that we want to build? on 00:23 - Dec 7 with 3429 views | CamberleyR |
This has all been said before. The footprint that the ground currently occupies is not big enough to expand on, especially if we all want more leg room.
If you take as a template that even a 25,000 capacity stadium would need two side stands holding 7,500 seats and two behind the goals holding 5,000 that would be impossible on the current site. The SAR stand may just be able to be rebuilt to hold 7,500 if the offices were moved elsewhere but no way could that size of stand be built on ER currently.
It also isn't quite as simplistic to say that houses will be purchased and knocked down. If just one person doesn't want to sell that would be it. Also how would you feel if you weren't a QPR fan and you owned one of the houses on ER and the club said to you we want to buy your home (even above market rates), to knock down to make our ground bigger? You'd tell them to fck off and quite rightly so. I know I would. |  |
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| this new stadium that we want to build? on 01:24 - Dec 7 with 3377 views | HollowayRanger |
| this new stadium that we want to build? on 00:23 - Dec 7 by CamberleyR |
This has all been said before. The footprint that the ground currently occupies is not big enough to expand on, especially if we all want more leg room.
If you take as a template that even a 25,000 capacity stadium would need two side stands holding 7,500 seats and two behind the goals holding 5,000 that would be impossible on the current site. The SAR stand may just be able to be rebuilt to hold 7,500 if the offices were moved elsewhere but no way could that size of stand be built on ER currently.
It also isn't quite as simplistic to say that houses will be purchased and knocked down. If just one person doesn't want to sell that would be it. Also how would you feel if you weren't a QPR fan and you owned one of the houses on ER and the club said to you we want to buy your home (even above market rates), to knock down to make our ground bigger? You'd tell them to fck off and quite rightly so. I know I would. |
didn't stop arsenal | |
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| this new stadium that we want to build? on 02:10 - Dec 7 with 3355 views | Juzzie |
| this new stadium that we want to build? on 01:24 - Dec 7 by HollowayRanger |
didn't stop arsenal |
Arsenal relocated to a new site, not rebuilt Highbury stand by stand. (Apart from the two ends they already did!). They knew Highbury couldn't be expanded any further due to residential housing so chose a new site altogether.
I've done the sums many times on here when people say about buying up the houses around LR. It's so impractical (they're not houses but flats so hundreds of people to move) and would cost so much money, huge amounts, it's just not worth it. [Post edited 7 Dec 2014 2:14]
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| this new stadium that we want to build? on 02:48 - Dec 7 with 3333 views | Hoopsie |
Had started a thread before abt loftus rd refurbishment, just think that there is an alternative and a opportunity to redevelop LR. Yes limited space for expansion and council planning etc but these constraints i feel are positive and will make designers think really hard abt a building, a stadium at that, the impact and relationship to its community and how can it contribute to he local area.
I see alternatives in:
- south africa rd side where a taller structure can be constructed and part building can cantilever out to the road and may even occupy the other side of the street, maybe as a gateway and u can incorporate shops and perhaps a bus terminus and a drop-off gateway for coaches. This stricture will also incorporate tge corporate boxes and shops club stores museum hall of fame visitor centre gym for commercial arm
- ellersie road side. Potentially a difficult side to redevelop because of the residential lots abutting the entire length but i see it as the most potential for residential redevelopment area of the stadium structure. Suggest buying the lot and develop a stand cum medium residential apartment block. You could increase the capacity in the stand and also increase house density that may satisfy club stakeholders who are keen on the residential potential of the old oak site. I believe a luxurious(?) boutique housing apartment can be built on this end.
- school end is also porntily viable if we can relook at acquiring some or sll parts of the property.
- a 30,000 capacity stadium will be ideal for QPR considering the historical fan base and growth opportunities and viability of the club, whilst retaining its historical communal and social background in the area.
I think in financial and planning complexities it will not be as complicated and uncertainty in comparison with the old oak common masterplan. |  |
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| this new stadium that we want to build? on 04:52 - Dec 7 with 3290 views | FredManRave |
| this new stadium that we want to build? on 21:49 - Dec 6 by DylanP |
More food places. More toilets. More space outside the seating area. More space for knees. Is that too much to ask? Make the experience more fun and people will spend more in food and drink. Fans wins. Club wins. Please |
Not forgetting a suitably respectable breast feeding section... |  |
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| this new stadium that we want to build? on 06:05 - Dec 7 with 3265 views | BklynRanger |
I know there are some strong arguments for why redeveloping LR just isn't feasible, but that would be the ultimate for me. Just knowing the club could stay where it is would be great.
Sadly that would reduce by approximately 800% Tony's ability to leverage us as an exciting, recently commodified urban asset with limitless potential for enhanced intersplicing of collaboratively maximized, revenue-generating money hubs. |  | | |
| this new stadium that we want to build? on 07:56 - Dec 7 with 3204 views | ozexile |
Part of the love of supporting qpr will die for me if we leave loftus rd. I don't get there often but I always remember sitting there in awe with my Dad as a kid. | | | |
| this new stadium that we want to build? on 08:26 - Dec 7 with 3170 views | RuislipHoop |
I really don't think we will be moving to a new ground anytime soon if the warren farm fiasco is anything to go by. | | | |
| this new stadium that we want to build? on 10:15 - Dec 7 with 3056 views | derbyhoop |
There's an article in AKUTRs 298 which covers the stadium as part of our potential to move forward.
Really well written (by me, of course). |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| this new stadium that we want to build? on 12:02 - Dec 7 with 2979 views | superhoop67 |
it's only for 90 mins once a fortnight ,i'm sure it's that much of a hardship to go to Loftus Rd ,it also makes us unique and also gets up the goat of the opposition | | | |
| this new stadium that we want to build? on 13:36 - Dec 7 with 2896 views | TheBlob |
I think whatever the decision for HQ,be it stadium or a village,the existing houses on Ellerslie and Loftus will have to go.Not unfeasible to build a huge stand where the Ellerslie is and incorporate flats into the structure - waste of space those gardens.Offer the existing owners/tenants favourable terms and rehouse them for the couple of years it takes to build.
Schools you can out anywhere in the area. |  |
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| this new stadium that we want to build? on 14:20 - Dec 7 with 2860 views | Hayesender |
| this new stadium that we want to build? on 00:07 - Dec 7 by vblockranger |
Love Loftus Rd and imo we will never move from there. TF is full of sh1t. |
This 100%. Stadium and Warren farm will never happen.
TF is just a charming chancer |  |
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| this new stadium that we want to build? on 15:03 - Dec 7 with 2794 views | RuislipHoop |
TF keeps this ball rolling to keep our thoughts away from the fact he has been in charge for nearly four years now and not a lot has changed on or off the pitch. | | | |
| this new stadium that we want to build? on 15:08 - Dec 7 with 2784 views | kensalriser |
We've been over the redevelop LR scenario so many times, but people just won't accept that it isn't viable. Put aside all the cost and planning implications (which alone would mean delays for many years, possibly decades), the real killer is that there simply won't be all the ancillary stuff you get when you build a new stadium as part of a regeneration area.
The Earth isn't flat and LR will never be extended as a football stadium. |  |
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| this new stadium that we want to build? on 16:02 - Dec 7 with 2726 views | qprewan |
| this new stadium that we want to build? on 15:08 - Dec 7 by kensalriser |
We've been over the redevelop LR scenario so many times, but people just won't accept that it isn't viable. Put aside all the cost and planning implications (which alone would mean delays for many years, possibly decades), the real killer is that there simply won't be all the ancillary stuff you get when you build a new stadium as part of a regeneration area.
The Earth isn't flat and LR will never be extended as a football stadium. |
You say that we have been over this many times and indeed we have on this message board; but you name me one definitive report that says that LR cannot be developed; you will struggle cos there isn't one. | | | |
| this new stadium that we want to build? on 22:59 - Dec 7 with 2527 views | Ingham |
For me, all the good points - and the good ones are solely about lining QPR's pockets, not the vast apparatus of hangers-on that materialise when something as big and as lucrative as a stadium project comes up - boil down to one thing..
The football. It is the football that sorts out the men from the boys. If we have 80,000-capacity football, we'll need an 80,000 capacity ground. World class players, top four finishes EVERY season as a minimum, with a minimum number of Premiership titles and Champions League successes year in and year out.
And that is the problem they all dodge. Football clubs are treated as businesses by investors and players and managers not because they are - there is no resemblance between a football club and a business - but because they are incapable of delivering the required standard of football.
If we had the quality, the long-term built-in system for success (a kind of Liverpool-style boot room but at QPR), the know-how and the experience, the White City venture in the 1960s might have made more sense. To be sure, the ground was not suitable at all, but if we were big enough, and had the numbers on our season ticket waiting list that Arsenal did when they moved to the new ground, the Club might well have had the clout, the influence, the support, and the money to build a ground to house any number of supporters.
But these people cannot do it. The kind of football geniuses who put together the Liverpool era of dominance or the United era of dominance more recently are found maybe only once in a generation, if that. The geniuses who temporarily transformed Ipswich, Derby, Forest - and QPR - were similarly talented, but were unable to change the size of those Clubs long-term in such a way that they remained at the top.
And even those brilliant talents - Ramsey, Revie, Paisley, Clough & Taylor and Robson at Ipswich - do not exist in the modern game, chiefly, I believe, because the smaller Clubs have stupidly tried to compete with the biggest Clubs on the basis of borrowing and spending, when the biggest Clubs - which are properties, not businesses - can attract much bigger loans in the same way that bigger properties in the housing market can.
In football terms, any fool can put up a new building, of any size, and dump a club in it. But any fool can't fill up the seats, unless the Club ALREADY has the support, as Arsenal did when they moved. A remarkable contrast to QPR, where Arsenal - a Club with title wins in every compete decade since the 1930s bar the sixties - designed the new ground for not one more supporter than they knew they already had.
Any fool can't win the Title. Business is not like football, where we know every Club bar one will be a loser by the end of any competition. Where there are no customers, but supporters who don't change their club despite its getting progressively worse, more inconvenient to get to, or more expensive.
Change the football, and we have the basis, not only for expanding the Club if our talent, know-how and experience is great enough, but for telling by exactly HOW MUCH we can expand the Club, down to the last supporter. Then we will know whether LR is enough. I am not against a bigger ground, but LR was our 'new ground' not that long ago - the first fully modernised stadium in the country - and when it was, it was found to be unsuitable (to those who think it is too small, uncomfortable, or limiting).
It is not a matter of being careful what we wish for, but of entering the real world, and matching our talk to our capabilities. Those who attended to the football achieved remarkable things. Robson's 10 year spell at Ipswich when that small Club stayed in the top four for a decade. The Dutch, who changed their profile at Club and International level by outplaying opponents, not by moving to enormous stadiums, any more than Liverpool did.
All that big talk at Fulham. Fayed said he would make them the rivals to Liverpool, Man Utd and Real Madrid. Clubs with around 40 English league titles, and the best part of 20 European Cup/Champions League successes between them. Did he achieve anything of the kind? No.
None of it materialised. They lost £15 million a year clinging on to mid-table, never growing, never becoming a challenger, even, never getting bigger, richer, cleverer, more brilliant. The reality was embodied in the (rather likeable) device of bolting seats onto the existing unmodernised Craven Cottage.
If these people insist that Old Oak makes sense, let's be realistic about it. Stay at LR, which has worked for our entire FL and PL history, and use Old Oak for the odd big game we know will provide 40,000 attendances.
And if our football is such that we have 22,000 on the season ticket waiting list - learn from a Club which has been truly successful like Arsenal, in other words - take the ground for a season, on approval. And renew it year by year that we're in the top four, which is where we'll need to be, in my opinion, to get a full house at home every week in a 40,000 capacity ground.
The strangely fumbling, meandering, incoherent way QPR has been run for decades does not amount to a mandate for change.
That is not a denial that the Club can be changed, quite the contrary. But it is a denial that it can be changed WITHOUT the kind of talent, genius, brilliance of performance, and results - which essentially means win, win, win, win, win year in, year out - and without any SIGN of anything of the kind.
Great thread. If only the board could come up with something even approaching the intelligence and know-how exhibited across a wide variety of positions in discussions of this kind. | | | |
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