| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 21:50 - Jan 18 with 862 views | Shaky |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 21:47 - Jan 18 by swanjackal |
"Now onto substance: God is God and Jesus is Jesus. I believe Jesus speaks for God."
Why do you believe this connection to be true? Genuinely interested here. |
It is a matter of my faith in the vision of morality described by Jesus. It is a concept of God I buy into 100%. |  |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 22:04 - Jan 18 with 844 views | swanjackal |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 21:50 - Jan 18 by Shaky |
It is a matter of my faith in the vision of morality described by Jesus. It is a concept of God I buy into 100%. |
So you buy into the god of the OT? |  |
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Hypocritically hypocritical ! |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 22:13 - Jan 18 with 840 views | Shaky |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 22:04 - Jan 18 by swanjackal |
So you buy into the god of the OT? |
Nope. Different guy altogether, in my view.
And you might be interested to learn that in various strands of gnostic scripture that have been suppressed from around 350 onwards, the story of the garden of Eden is reversed 180 degrees; "God" is seen as the villain of the piece keeping mankind in perpetual darkness, while the serpent is the hero directly causing the spark of enlightenment.
Interesting take, don't you think? | |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 22:31 - Jan 18 with 824 views | swanjackal |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 22:13 - Jan 18 by Shaky |
Nope. Different guy altogether, in my view.
And you might be interested to learn that in various strands of gnostic scripture that have been suppressed from around 350 onwards, the story of the garden of Eden is reversed 180 degrees; "God" is seen as the villain of the piece keeping mankind in perpetual darkness, while the serpent is the hero directly causing the spark of enlightenment.
Interesting take, don't you think? |
It is, but then again if you actually read the OT fully, that god actually comes across as an evil, capricious, spiteful, malevolent thing, so not really a surprising thing one sect have taken on this idea.
I have to ask, how is it a different entity? Are there a pantheon of gods? | |
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Hypocritically hypocritical ! |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 22:38 - Jan 18 with 821 views | Shaky |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 22:31 - Jan 18 by swanjackal |
It is, but then again if you actually read the OT fully, that god actually comes across as an evil, capricious, spiteful, malevolent thing, so not really a surprising thing one sect have taken on this idea.
I have to ask, how is it a different entity? Are there a pantheon of gods? |
According to some gnostic scripture yes, although there is only one supreme god.
As I see it it is not unreasonable that the universe contains various beings of a higher but intermediate spiritual nature compared to mankind, but further speculation I believe is pointless.
It is all well outside the realm of our possible understanding, so as I see it it is futile to dwell on anything other than our relationship with the supreme being.
Anyway, that's me done for tonight; thanks for keeping an open mind. | |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 22:44 - Jan 18 with 831 views | Lohengrin |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 22:38 - Jan 18 by Shaky |
According to some gnostic scripture yes, although there is only one supreme god.
As I see it it is not unreasonable that the universe contains various beings of a higher but intermediate spiritual nature compared to mankind, but further speculation I believe is pointless.
It is all well outside the realm of our possible understanding, so as I see it it is futile to dwell on anything other than our relationship with the supreme being.
Anyway, that's me done for tonight; thanks for keeping an open mind. |
This has turned into an excellent thread.  |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 22:47 - Jan 18 with 824 views | swanjackal |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 22:38 - Jan 18 by Shaky |
According to some gnostic scripture yes, although there is only one supreme god.
As I see it it is not unreasonable that the universe contains various beings of a higher but intermediate spiritual nature compared to mankind, but further speculation I believe is pointless.
It is all well outside the realm of our possible understanding, so as I see it it is futile to dwell on anything other than our relationship with the supreme being.
Anyway, that's me done for tonight; thanks for keeping an open mind. |
Why does there have to be supreme beings of a higher nature? There is no evidence to support a claim like that other than belief, which is a "Shaky" ground to build a foundation on. | |
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Hypocritically hypocritical ! |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 23:03 - Jan 18 with 813 views | Shaky |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 22:47 - Jan 18 by swanjackal |
Why does there have to be supreme beings of a higher nature? There is no evidence to support a claim like that other than belief, which is a "Shaky" ground to build a foundation on. |
Just to answer this point I have already mentioned that my belief in God is a leap of faith, and that I don't expect or feel the need to discover any physical evidence in support of this.
However, it is a widely neglected fact that not only theistic belief systems require a leap of faith.
For example, you probably consider yourself to be a rationalist, but the whole justification for this is also based on a leap of faith that rational argument is a better approach than say Darwinism, which you might plausibly argue is the correct extension of natural laws. | |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 23:05 - Jan 18 with 811 views | Shaky |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 22:44 - Jan 18 by Lohengrin |
This has turned into an excellent thread. |
We've never discussed religion before, Loh, and I wasn't aware you tended to discount the OT; out of interested can you summarize you reasons for that, since I doubt they are identical to mine? | |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 23:48 - Jan 18 with 798 views | swanjackal |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 23:03 - Jan 18 by Shaky |
Just to answer this point I have already mentioned that my belief in God is a leap of faith, and that I don't expect or feel the need to discover any physical evidence in support of this.
However, it is a widely neglected fact that not only theistic belief systems require a leap of faith.
For example, you probably consider yourself to be a rationalist, but the whole justification for this is also based on a leap of faith that rational argument is a better approach than say Darwinism, which you might plausibly argue is the correct extension of natural laws. |
Firstly, I'm glad you have mentioned that there is no physical evidence to support your viewpoint, after that admission, it is difficult to debate against anyone's position.
Your last paragraph does not make a great deal of sense. Being rational would not necessarily put you in an opposing argument against the process of natural selection as it stands, and thus the general pointer behind Darwinistic evolution both on the micro and macro scale. The rational, logical mind would see that there is significant evidence to support the idea, and is a at moment the best mechanism we can use to show development. So I can't fathom how rationalism is challenged by accepting natural selection, in fact it would probably be the most in line with a rational/logical way of thinking.
But I do understand this kind of questioning is cyclic, as no real answer can be given other than "personal belief". If it works for you, then that is fine, | |
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Hypocritically hypocritical ! |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 23:56 - Jan 18 with 795 views | swanjackal |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 23:05 - Jan 18 by Shaky |
We've never discussed religion before, Loh, and I wasn't aware you tended to discount the OT; out of interested can you summarize you reasons for that, since I doubt they are identical to mine? |
Reading the first pages of the book of Genesis was enough for me to discount the veracity of the OT.
Even when you get past the crazy origins (dust and ribs etc), the story of Lot would be the point where any sane person would just say...."I'm out!".
If people only read the book instead of putting it on a pedestal with no thought of the content, maybe things wouldn't have got so far. | |
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Hypocritically hypocritical ! |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 01:09 - Jan 19 with 784 views | Davillin |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 22:44 - Jan 18 by Lohengrin |
This has turned into an excellent thread. |
I have the person you replied to on "block," but I can comment on your statement. This has turned into a very silly thread.
Everybody knows that "Bad weather is god's punishment" for allowing the theory of 'global warming' to continue to exist. |  |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 05:14 - Jan 19 with 771 views | Catullus |
No.
Why would God punish gay marriage? Wouldn't he be punishing gays from the outset? Why wait til now?
And didn't God (to paraphrase) decide to bugger off and leave us to our own devices? Has he/she had a change of mind? Sat there watching the news with his/her toast and hot chocolate and suddenly decide that in a few months time he'd punish the Tory monsters for allowing it?
Why isn't he punishing the clergy who kiddy fiddle?
It's a crazy world/afterlife/heaven etc! |  |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 08:00 - Jan 19 with 759 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 19:22 - Jan 18 by dgt73 |
Because you make a sweeping statement that all religious people should be banned from political office and why because one person says something extreme, now if I was to use you're logic and say all black people are in violent gangs, just because some black people are, I'm sure you'd be one of the first to cry racist/racism. You can't have it both ways, and for that reason I think you are a coward because religious people these days are easy prey because they are not afforded the same protection in the eyes of the law. |
Yes they are. There are laws against discriminating on the basis of a person's religion and inciting hatred based on a person's religion. I could be wrong but I think they're in the same statute as the laws against inciting racial hatred. Either way, they definitely exist.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 08:40 - Jan 19 with 743 views | dgt73 |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 08:00 - Jan 19 by exiledclaseboy |
Yes they are. There are laws against discriminating on the basis of a person's religion and inciting hatred based on a person's religion. I could be wrong but I think they're in the same statute as the laws against inciting racial hatred. Either way, they definitely exist.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
I don't think they are, well not to the same extent anyway, what about that lady who worked for British airway she wasn't allowed to wear a crucifix , or that Christian couple who didn't want a gay couple sharing a bed in the b&b they owned, equality law supersede all else. [Post edited 19 Jan 2014 8:41]
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 08:50 - Jan 19 with 733 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 08:40 - Jan 19 by dgt73 |
I don't think they are, well not to the same extent anyway, what about that lady who worked for British airway she wasn't allowed to wear a crucifix , or that Christian couple who didn't want a gay couple sharing a bed in the b&b they owned, equality law supersede all else. [Post edited 19 Jan 2014 8:41]
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British Airways' ban was against jewellery, not religious symbols and they changed their policy. The lady involved went to the European Court of Human Rights (boo, hiss etc), won her case and was awarded damages. The very laws I mentioned in action.
No one discriminated against the B and B owners. They were just told that if they open a business they aren't allowed to discriminate against homosexuals. In the same way as (for example) Tesco wouldn't be able to ban gay people from shopping in its stores. | |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 08:54 - Jan 19 with 732 views | dgt73 |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 08:50 - Jan 19 by exiledclaseboy |
British Airways' ban was against jewellery, not religious symbols and they changed their policy. The lady involved went to the European Court of Human Rights (boo, hiss etc), won her case and was awarded damages. The very laws I mentioned in action.
No one discriminated against the B and B owners. They were just told that if they open a business they aren't allowed to discriminate against homosexuals. In the same way as (for example) Tesco wouldn't be able to ban gay people from shopping in its stores. |
So the Christian couple were forced by the law to go against their Christian teachings. Yes or no. | |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 08:56 - Jan 19 with 731 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 08:54 - Jan 19 by dgt73 |
So the Christian couple were forced by the law to go against their Christian teachings. Yes or no. |
No. They were told that if you open a business you aren't allowed to discriminate against sectors of society on the basis of their own beliefs. No one told them that they aren't allowed to believe that homosexuality is wrong. | |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 09:03 - Jan 19 with 723 views | Shaky |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 23:48 - Jan 18 by swanjackal |
Firstly, I'm glad you have mentioned that there is no physical evidence to support your viewpoint, after that admission, it is difficult to debate against anyone's position.
Your last paragraph does not make a great deal of sense. Being rational would not necessarily put you in an opposing argument against the process of natural selection as it stands, and thus the general pointer behind Darwinistic evolution both on the micro and macro scale. The rational, logical mind would see that there is significant evidence to support the idea, and is a at moment the best mechanism we can use to show development. So I can't fathom how rationalism is challenged by accepting natural selection, in fact it would probably be the most in line with a rational/logical way of thinking.
But I do understand this kind of questioning is cyclic, as no real answer can be given other than "personal belief". If it works for you, then that is fine, |
You misunderstood the point I was trying to make.
Nietzsche's philosophy of Might is Right might be regarded as an alternative to rationalism, based as it is to a large extent on Darwinism and the natural law of survival of the fittest.
However, the rationalist has no logical basis to support his contention that solving a dispute by argument is superior to solving it by say a wrestling contest or other test of physical force as might be advocated by the Nietzschen.
Instead it requires a leap of faith to assume that rational argument is the best option, in much the same way as religion requires a leap of faith. | |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 09:05 - Jan 19 with 723 views | dgt73 |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 08:56 - Jan 19 by exiledclaseboy |
No. They were told that if you open a business you aren't allowed to discriminate against sectors of society on the basis of their own beliefs. No one told them that they aren't allowed to believe that homosexuality is wrong. |
So Christians shouldn't be allowed to run business if they're belief's get in the way of other peoples rights, that init self is a contradiction. And where does that leave gay clubs are they allowed to refuse entry to non gay people. | |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 09:08 - Jan 19 with 717 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 09:05 - Jan 19 by dgt73 |
So Christians shouldn't be allowed to run business if they're belief's get in the way of other peoples rights, that init self is a contradiction. And where does that leave gay clubs are they allowed to refuse entry to non gay people. |
Christians, like anyone else can run businesses how they like, they just aren't allowed to discriminate against sectors of society they don't approve of. Like anyone else.
How would gay clubs know if someone trying to gain entry was gay or not? Be sensible mun. | |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 09:14 - Jan 19 with 708 views | dgt73 |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 09:08 - Jan 19 by exiledclaseboy |
Christians, like anyone else can run businesses how they like, they just aren't allowed to discriminate against sectors of society they don't approve of. Like anyone else.
How would gay clubs know if someone trying to gain entry was gay or not? Be sensible mun. |
You didn't answer the question can gay clubs refuse entry to non gays. If I was to walk into one holding my wife's hand there's a good chance they'd know I wasn't gay. | |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 09:16 - Jan 19 with 703 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 09:14 - Jan 19 by dgt73 |
You didn't answer the question can gay clubs refuse entry to non gays. If I was to walk into one holding my wife's hand there's a good chance they'd know I wasn't gay. |
No, gay clubs aren't allowed to refuse entry to non-gays. | |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 09:17 - Jan 19 with 700 views | Shaky |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 09:14 - Jan 19 by dgt73 |
You didn't answer the question can gay clubs refuse entry to non gays. If I was to walk into one holding my wife's hand there's a good chance they'd know I wasn't gay. |
This is a very bad example.
Gays are invariably the most tolerant people you will meet, and the same goes for gay clubs.
I used to go the Heaven in London fairly often in the 90s on a Thursday night as did many heterosexuals; great nights! | |
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| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 09:21 - Jan 19 with 696 views | dgt73 |
| Bad weather is God's punishment for allowing gays to get married on 09:16 - Jan 19 by exiledclaseboy |
No, gay clubs aren't allowed to refuse entry to non-gays. |
But no doubt they do, and why are gay clubs allowed to open, aren't they creating their own apartheid. | |
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