| Celar - Nothing Again 22:01 - Oct 22 with 47201 views | NorthantsHoop |
Is he just a dud or not interested, Lloyd looked much more up for it when he came on. |  | | |  |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:09 - Oct 23 with 2644 views | strikerace |
After reading all the posts I must say I disagree with the comments on some of the crosses. A more aggressive, mobile striker would have definitely gotten on the end of a number of those in my opinion. When Celar is standing around, continually behind where he needs to be, its easy to say the cross was over hit. I would bet that Austin in his prime, or even Austin in round 2, would have been on the end of a lot of those. Hence Smyth getting mad at him. For me Celar does absolutely nothing, in fact last match he actually seemed to do less than nothing. Some of his effort in fighting for the ball was very poor, and the crowd started letting him know it.
I don't know what I think of Alfie yet, but I would certainly give him a run and see. |  | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:14 - Oct 23 with 2606 views | rbee |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:00 - Oct 23 by Hayesender |
Just watched the 2nd half back, and at one point the ball is past to Celar quite hard, but he loses it straight away giving possession straight back to Coventry. There are very audible boos from our fans towards this.
To those that were there, was there a feeling of the fans starting to turn? |
Didn't the Sky commentator mention that the pass was hard?
I heard those boos as well. I remember Georges Santos coming on as a sub at home to Norwich to a loud chorus of boos. Five minutes later he scored a worldy and the crowd were cheering him. Fans huh. |  | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:16 - Oct 23 with 2593 views | daveB |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:51 - Oct 23 by Northernr |
This is a really good post. The signings we've made, individually, may have had this stat or that stat, "top 50% of our squad physically", but they don't look like they fit together into a team. As you rightly say, Frey and Celar are total opposites. Saito plays Chair's position. We're trying to use Madsen as a defensive midfielder in a 4-2-3-1, which he aint. We're trying to use Varane as the fabled midfielder to take it on the turn and progress it, which he aint. Dembele, Saito etc don't play the same style as half the rest of the other ones. |
Thats what drives me mad, to get a striker in who can apparently only score goals if you put the ball near the penalty spot feels a bit foolish but to pair him with players who don't do that and have never done that is complete incompetence. |  | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:17 - Oct 23 with 2578 views | daveB |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:00 - Oct 23 by Hayesender |
Just watched the 2nd half back, and at one point the ball is past to Celar quite hard, but he loses it straight away giving possession straight back to Coventry. There are very audible boos from our fans towards this.
To those that were there, was there a feeling of the fans starting to turn? |
Yeah crowd turned on him second half and greeted Lloyd like a hero for just running around a bit and showing some interest | | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:19 - Oct 23 with 2564 views | StreathamRanger |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:00 - Oct 23 by Hayesender |
Just watched the 2nd half back, and at one point the ball is past to Celar quite hard, but he loses it straight away giving possession straight back to Coventry. There are very audible boos from our fans towards this.
To those that were there, was there a feeling of the fans starting to turn? |
I turned on quite a few of them last night. The main culprits were Chair and Celar. Both of them guilty of failing to do the basics of closing down a man. No point playing a press if two players aren't going to join in. I lost it at one point when Celar look at the long ball coming in his direction and decided not to even bother jumping. Sure he probably wouldn't have won the header but he just looked at it and kept both feet very much on the ground. He's a weakling and I can't see him thriving in this league. Compare that to Saito who is our smallest player but he put himself about as much as anyone yesterday. I'd start him ahead of Dembele at the moment. | | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:24 - Oct 23 with 2510 views | robith |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:00 - Oct 23 by Hayesender |
Just watched the 2nd half back, and at one point the ball is past to Celar quite hard, but he loses it straight away giving possession straight back to Coventry. There are very audible boos from our fans towards this.
To those that were there, was there a feeling of the fans starting to turn? |
Starting? I felt everyone has already made up their mind and was on his back from the get go |  | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:28 - Oct 23 with 2479 views | TheChef |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:24 - Oct 23 by robith |
Starting? I felt everyone has already made up their mind and was on his back from the get go |
Bit like this thread eh? |  |
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:32 - Oct 23 with 2455 views | rbee |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:16 - Oct 23 by daveB |
Thats what drives me mad, to get a striker in who can apparently only score goals if you put the ball near the penalty spot feels a bit foolish but to pair him with players who don't do that and have never done that is complete incompetence. |
It seems that our last transfer window was built around buying them, young, within our budget, with good stats and analytics.
Little or no attention has been paid to their personalities or style of play. We had a long time to look at our targets as well. | | | |
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:33 - Oct 23 with 2437 views | gazza1 |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:38 - Oct 23 by ParkRoyalR |
Gazza, c'mon let be honest and add some context here,
A club in a lower division that has spent more in the close season (£35m?) than all bar one club in the championship picked up Dykes on the cheap off us because of his wages and we somehow thought Frey & Celar were suitable replacements,
Do you think Birmingham City would have been in for Frey or Celar?
With such logic and incisive thinking, I'm only surprised you hav'nt been tapped up by our infamous Recruitment Department. |
Don't know enough about B'ham PRR......all I would say is Dykes is very limited indeed. Is he better than Celar - maybe/perhaps, is Celar as or more expensive financially as Dykes, no he is not-for sure. Would I pick Frey ahead of Dykes, certainly would most weeks.
If he was any good B'ham would be playing two up front and not leaving 'such a good player' getting splitters 90% of the time.
Celar & Dykes are not good enough, Frey is better than both, imho. [Post edited 23 Oct 15:40]
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:50 - Oct 23 with 2322 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:17 - Oct 23 by daveB |
Yeah crowd turned on him second half and greeted Lloyd like a hero for just running around a bit and showing some interest |
Didn’t hear any of that. Moans and groans of course throughout the game but certainly no boos aimed at Celar. Shame on anyone who did that in my opinion: how is that going to help or encourage him? |  | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 16:13 - Oct 23 with 2209 views | kensalriser |
I'm not big on scapegoating and I think a lot of our problems at the moment are collective. But I have to concede this guy has shown nothing. I'm struggling to understand what he can do - sure, I've read he makes good runs and I'll accept that even though I haven't noticed - but he can't win the ball, can't keep the ball, can't win headers and creates absolutely nothing. Anonymous is an entirely inadequate description. |  |
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 16:15 - Oct 23 with 2204 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:50 - Oct 23 by Ned_Kennedys |
Didn’t hear any of that. Moans and groans of course throughout the game but certainly no boos aimed at Celar. Shame on anyone who did that in my opinion: how is that going to help or encourage him? |
Didn't hear any booing either. A lot of frustration, but that is aimed at all the players. Should of heard the pelters Dembele was getting after the goal.
Lloyd was definitely not greeted like the Messiah. | | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 16:20 - Oct 23 with 2190 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:33 - Oct 23 by gazza1 |
Don't know enough about B'ham PRR......all I would say is Dykes is very limited indeed. Is he better than Celar - maybe/perhaps, is Celar as or more expensive financially as Dykes, no he is not-for sure. Would I pick Frey ahead of Dykes, certainly would most weeks.
If he was any good B'ham would be playing two up front and not leaving 'such a good player' getting splitters 90% of the time.
Celar & Dykes are not good enough, Frey is better than both, imho. [Post edited 23 Oct 15:40]
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Gazza,
I can help you here if you're not aware about what is happening at Birmingham,
Apparently they have spent £35m stockpiling talented players, spending more than every Championship club bar one apparently
Using that move as a yardstick to criticize Dykes is way off, similar to saying Jay Stansfield valued @ £ 10m is'nt good enough to play in the Championship, he is and only 1 or 2 Championship clubs could afford the fee and wages Birmingham offered.
In the right team (and unfortunately maybe in a different league / country), Celar could prove to be a better player than Dykes, I'm still more sceptical on Frey.
Similar to Chair's head-down technique when receiving the ball, have you noticed what Frey does when challenging for a header? which may explain why he wins so very few 50/50 headers. | | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 16:46 - Oct 23 with 2082 views | R_from_afar |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:19 - Oct 23 by StreathamRanger |
I turned on quite a few of them last night. The main culprits were Chair and Celar. Both of them guilty of failing to do the basics of closing down a man. No point playing a press if two players aren't going to join in. I lost it at one point when Celar look at the long ball coming in his direction and decided not to even bother jumping. Sure he probably wouldn't have won the header but he just looked at it and kept both feet very much on the ground. He's a weakling and I can't see him thriving in this league. Compare that to Saito who is our smallest player but he put himself about as much as anyone yesterday. I'd start him ahead of Dembele at the moment. |
"Both of them guilty of failing to do the basics of closing down a man".
I'm glad you have flagged this up because it grinds my gears when our players don't do this properly. Smyth manages to close down properly most of the time and when done properly, it can create opportunities out of nothing.
It's not just about running towards the man with the ball, though, you might have to sprint and you need to get so close that you put the opponent off or even block his pass, shot or clearance.
Do we need a closing down coach? Sigh... |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 17:10 - Oct 23 with 2017 views | Pdog |
Whilst i completely get where these comments are coming from and of course agree his performances have been ineffective, i don't actually recall him in many chance / half-chance situations (perhaps Plymouth aside)..
Is that 100% due to his lack of desire / movement to receive in attacking situations, probably not. Are we laying ball after ball for him on a plate for a shot at goal which he's squandering, not either. Smyth's flashed ball across the box was with so much pace that unless its more or less on the money its difficult to connect with.
He is not and never will be a Frey / Dykes hopeful get-out ball option scrapping for pieces. The way we play with 1 up top and infrequent runners beyond will most often isolate our striker against x2 CB's. Our build-up can be so slow, and when Chair & Dembele play wide their 1st priority is cut in and shoot. It's clearly not compatible dynamic.
Yes he needs to take responsibility and improve on the pitch - he’s dynamite in training apparently :) Similarly, our recruitment team should reflect on why they thought he would fit into our system, as currently that relationship is incompatible. |  | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 17:13 - Oct 23 with 2004 views | GaryHaddock |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 16:15 - Oct 23 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
Didn't hear any booing either. A lot of frustration, but that is aimed at all the players. Should of heard the pelters Dembele was getting after the goal.
Lloyd was definitely not greeted like the Messiah. |
No one has said there was booing to be fair. There is a huge spectrum of negative reactions. |  | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 17:30 - Oct 23 with 1884 views | daveB |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:32 - Oct 23 by rbee |
It seems that our last transfer window was built around buying them, young, within our budget, with good stats and analytics.
Little or no attention has been paid to their personalities or style of play. We had a long time to look at our targets as well. |
there never seems to be any attention to how can we have a good team now or how these great stats translate into working in a team | | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 17:41 - Oct 23 with 1820 views | E17hoop |
Just to add my 2p's worth.
I thought Celar had a weak game. He wanted the ball in the same place - as many here have noticed - and when it wasn't there looked like he was out of position. Some of the passes to him were never going to be won by him though; he's not Frey and plays a different way. He'd benefit from the ball alongside the CB for him to run onto but we're insistent on either a) crossing from the wing, or b) cutting inside to take a shot.
He had 14 touches last night which isn't enough and needed to put his foot in more - he's not keen on a physical press, relying on presence to put the defender off and their mistakes leading to chances. Unfortunately, Coventry didn't make those mistakes last night. In terms of comparison, Thomas-Asante had 21 touches and he was more central than Celar - again, Chair cutting in from the left took Celar's space and he was pushed out.
Will he come good? I hope so but he needs a goal. |  |
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 18:26 - Oct 23 with 1691 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 17:30 - Oct 23 by daveB |
there never seems to be any attention to how can we have a good team now or how these great stats translate into working in a team |
And we hav'nt had since we foolishly sacked Mark Warburton,
In a club full of sons of self-made men, ex players and now a very young trainee DoF,
I hoped Warburton would be our next DoF and bring some professionalism, passion and a work ethic to every department in our club,
This hope may have been misguided and I don't know if he had form like Warnock, Hughes & Co for skimming, but in an arse-kicking contest having one leg is better than having none. | | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 18:31 - Oct 23 with 1677 views | simmo |
Most appearances coming at the end of games we're already struggling in, for a team that hasn't figured out a system or way of playing - especially with going forward. Getting a striker thaty lands on his feet and is Championship standard is, more than almost any position, extremely rare. We've seem the benefit of Frey having time, etc.
I'm not saying he has looked great, because he hasn't, but we're 10 games in and his total minutes probably isn't close to half that. Let's cut him some slack. |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 19:00 - Oct 23 with 1564 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 23:23 - Oct 22 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
That's the point of that run. He creates space for the 10 through the centre, or the ball is passed to him.
Neither happen due to a lack of quality. We are simply not creating clear cut chances.
I sit in the Upper Loft right behind the goal, so I have good view. Celar is definitely making the run.
The crossing was not good today, it was awful, again. Aimless balls into the box, no one being picked out. Even our goal was through it being deflected! |
They’re only aimless if no one makes an attempt to get on the end of them.
Attacking the cross is the whole point. Can’t blame Smyth for putting balls across the six yard box if there is nobody there. Celar was always on his heels, in very much the same way Dykes used to be.
Celar deserves a bit more time, but it doesn’t look remotely promising.
Saito did well, much better than Dembele and Morgan could help solve our midfield conundrum. Thought Varane had a decent game as well. | | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 19:06 - Oct 23 with 1527 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 09:14 - Oct 23 by ParkRoyalR |
And failed miserably....
Although not sure it's within Fair Employment Act to make Chair train in a neck brace to stop him looking him looking at his feet,
Or setting the Tannoy to screech Look For The Man Running Into The Box everything Smyth gets to the Bye Line. |
Chair put a shed load of crosses in last night. Still by far the best player we have. | | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 19:29 - Oct 23 with 1493 views | Sharpediver |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:00 - Oct 23 by Hayesender |
Just watched the 2nd half back, and at one point the ball is past to Celar quite hard, but he loses it straight away giving possession straight back to Coventry. There are very audible boos from our fans towards this.
To those that were there, was there a feeling of the fans starting to turn? |
Bloke about 4/5 rows in front of me in G block was going berserk over him. Thought the poor chap was going to give himself an aneurysm at one stage! [Post edited 23 Oct 19:51]
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 19:38 - Oct 23 with 1447 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 17:10 - Oct 23 by Pdog |
Whilst i completely get where these comments are coming from and of course agree his performances have been ineffective, i don't actually recall him in many chance / half-chance situations (perhaps Plymouth aside)..
Is that 100% due to his lack of desire / movement to receive in attacking situations, probably not. Are we laying ball after ball for him on a plate for a shot at goal which he's squandering, not either. Smyth's flashed ball across the box was with so much pace that unless its more or less on the money its difficult to connect with.
He is not and never will be a Frey / Dykes hopeful get-out ball option scrapping for pieces. The way we play with 1 up top and infrequent runners beyond will most often isolate our striker against x2 CB's. Our build-up can be so slow, and when Chair & Dembele play wide their 1st priority is cut in and shoot. It's clearly not compatible dynamic.
Yes he needs to take responsibility and improve on the pitch - he’s dynamite in training apparently :) Similarly, our recruitment team should reflect on why they thought he would fit into our system, as currently that relationship is incompatible. |
He's not going to find himself in many chance situations if he doesn't gamble and bust a gut into the 6 yard box. Smyth put in 2 or 3 lovely crosses yet Celar was nowhere near.
I think it was Lineker who said he was constantly making runs to either the near or far post. 90% of his runs would go unrewarded but he'd keep going safe in the knowledge that the chances would eventually come. |  | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 19:59 - Oct 23 with 1401 views | Sharpediver |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 19:38 - Oct 23 by Benny_the_Ball |
He's not going to find himself in many chance situations if he doesn't gamble and bust a gut into the 6 yard box. Smyth put in 2 or 3 lovely crosses yet Celar was nowhere near.
I think it was Lineker who said he was constantly making runs to either the near or far post. 90% of his runs would go unrewarded but he'd keep going safe in the knowledge that the chances would eventually come. |
I hope I'm wrong and he goes on to smash in 100 goals in a stellar career for us a la Lineker. I dont know much about tactics, how to coach strikers, running in behind the central defenders etc, but in 45 years of going to Rangers I really cannot recall a worst striker and if there was he certainly wasn't given as many games as Celar has to prove himself. I think even Steve Slade and Brett Angell looked more effective. [Post edited 23 Oct 20:00]
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