| EGM on 01:30 - Aug 4 with 3701 views | nordenblue |
| EGM on 23:31 - Aug 3 by pioneer |
Problem is they are still not communicating with shareholders. No idea how many folks were there tonight …i was on line for part of the meeting ( and disappointed with Jamie Sarsfelds aggressive manner….that would be more suited to Hornets board).
What was said there tonight could easily be said in an e mail update or FAQ type document to shareholders but no…all they received was the notice of the meeting, wording of the motion and a proxy form. Nothing I heard in the parts I saw suggested any desire to change in the respect. |
Edit...double post [Post edited 4 Aug 2023 6:57]
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| EGM on 05:17 - Aug 4 with 3593 views | frenzied |
| EGM on 16:09 - Aug 3 by DaleFan7 |
It will be interesting to see what happens if this EGM vote doesn't get passed.
1) Do they put it into some form of administration?
2) Do they carry on and we just keep getting worse and fall away?
3) Do they just sell the club to anyone that will entertain them and gets them some money? |
I think any club in this situation is likely to fall into administration and the poss penalties that brings..points deduction?..if the situation becomes more dire ie staff not being paid
My feeling from the meeting was that several board directors would not have got involved financially if they'd known then what they know now.
The response to the question re GDS performance was correct..its none of our business..any changes will be notified to the fan base if they should ever occur.
Mr S looks like he will have a stroke ..needs to step back and think before he lashes out at a public forum when his customer base is present.
Jimmy Mac did a decent session..hes still not my choice however i will back him100%....success on the pitch will give us some relief off it. | | | |
| EGM on 07:50 - Aug 4 with 3411 views | NorthernDale |
After listening to the fans forum, I am moving to vote 'Yes' at the moment, because we got some more information from the directors, but I am not totally reassured, but if it helps us get through the present and the board can get the new investment in, even better.
There are some posters, who are passionate about the Dale, but have nothing to say, but negative things, 'yes' we are are all concerned about the financial situation and have been critical of the board and how the club as been run, but I worry 'what happen if the board resigned' tomorrow, the chaos could be worse. As other people have said, would Simon, Richard and the other board members have stepped forward to run the club, if they knew what they would be getting into.
One thing is certain, is that we need new investors to take us forward and hopefully, we can get them asap, ideally an investor like Rothwell (Oldham) or a Stott (Stockport). [Post edited 4 Aug 2023 7:54]
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| EGM on 08:06 - Aug 4 with 3374 views | TommoRAFC |
| EGM on 07:50 - Aug 4 by NorthernDale |
After listening to the fans forum, I am moving to vote 'Yes' at the moment, because we got some more information from the directors, but I am not totally reassured, but if it helps us get through the present and the board can get the new investment in, even better.
There are some posters, who are passionate about the Dale, but have nothing to say, but negative things, 'yes' we are are all concerned about the financial situation and have been critical of the board and how the club as been run, but I worry 'what happen if the board resigned' tomorrow, the chaos could be worse. As other people have said, would Simon, Richard and the other board members have stepped forward to run the club, if they knew what they would be getting into.
One thing is certain, is that we need new investors to take us forward and hopefully, we can get them asap, ideally an investor like Rothwell (Oldham) or a Stott (Stockport). [Post edited 4 Aug 2023 7:54]
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Having watched last night, is anyone who is compelled to vote yes, convinced that these directors have what it takes to capitalise on the "breathing space"?
The body language and reactions to questions, unless bluffing on their part, suggests they couldn't be further from reality if they tried.
They've run out of ideas and don't want to take up offers for assistance, it looks to me like they all need to take ownership, not just Delves.
In hindsight, I wish someone asked would their positions be untenable, should shareholders vote against the proposal. | |
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| EGM on 08:52 - Aug 4 with 3275 views | TalkingSutty |
| EGM on 07:50 - Aug 4 by NorthernDale |
After listening to the fans forum, I am moving to vote 'Yes' at the moment, because we got some more information from the directors, but I am not totally reassured, but if it helps us get through the present and the board can get the new investment in, even better.
There are some posters, who are passionate about the Dale, but have nothing to say, but negative things, 'yes' we are are all concerned about the financial situation and have been critical of the board and how the club as been run, but I worry 'what happen if the board resigned' tomorrow, the chaos could be worse. As other people have said, would Simon, Richard and the other board members have stepped forward to run the club, if they knew what they would be getting into.
One thing is certain, is that we need new investors to take us forward and hopefully, we can get them asap, ideally an investor like Rothwell (Oldham) or a Stott (Stockport). [Post edited 4 Aug 2023 7:54]
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A bit more meat on the bones last night. A top table that looked defeated, embarrassed, resigned and aggressive at times. The Chairman looked genuinely bewildered when his communication skills, or lack of them, was called into question. You would have thought somebody in the boardroom would have had a quiet word in his ear about that many moons ago, it's been a constant problem. It's that lack of communication and a unwillingness to speak to people, reach out for help, that has contributed to the current crisis. He looked what he is, out of his depth and so did the others.
You would like to think that before it got to the last chance saloon there would have already been extensive discussions involving those in the Boardroom and the largest shareholders, the Supporters Trust. That would have been a normal thing to do wouldn't it? Discussions to formulate a plan should the worst case scenario happen, we don't find a investor and we run out of money. It seemed apparent last night that there is no other plan, there's been no discussions and we will just deal with it if and when it happens. No plan for the worst case scenario, that speaks volumes and yet again comes back to a unwillingness to communicate.
Borrowing £350k will probably see us through until Christmas, it might buy us 4 months when you factor in we are losing over £100k/ month. Then after that we wait for the inevitable to happen. The Chairman actually said that we might have to accept investment from people who wouldn't have been first choice, maybe second or third. We are ripe for picking in relation to those with bad intentions and i still think property development will be the attraction. Simon Gauge instantly dismissed that idea when i suggested it a couple of months ago, that made me even more worried. We need to start making a noise and alert the rest of the football World and media to our current predicament, a historic football club in danger of extinction. Send out a SOS to the football family and make David Cloughs story and his You Tube clip front and centre of the appeal.
Those running the club are too quiet and I don't like it. Rather than see another club go down the pan I'm sure financial funding or help would be forthcoming from somewhere if we made a loud enough noise, a club that owns its own stadium wouldn't be allowed to just go bust, that wouldn't be allowed to happen. I still dont believe that finding a investor within the next few months is the only thing that can save the club and a reason why we will probably have to accept people who are not fit for purpose. I don't think every avenue has been explored, are RMBC aware of how close we are to losing the club, are the local councillors, the FA, the National League? I don't believe they are. I haven't seen anything to that effect in the local or national newspapers or other media outlets. I don't believe we can't release money from the stadium to reset the club, or that RMBC and football authorities wouldn't lend money against it in an emergency. Can we believe that every avenue has been explored properly or just been given lip service? The proof is in the pudding when it comes to their lack of communication skills.
There's been a thirst to find a investor which has trumped running the club properly since the buy up of the Morton House shares. That's what i honestly believe. Consequently, what we have now is a club that has never been given a proper chance of thriving under the current regime. The club has replaced over achievement with under achievement, that's the reality of the situation i think. 'Even doubling our crowds can't save us' according to Gauge, that comment alone summed up why he should have been replaced as Chairman a long time ago.
To finish on a positive note, i thought McNulty was magnificent. [Post edited 4 Aug 2023 10:09]
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| EGM on 08:58 - Aug 4 with 3247 views | NorthernDale |
Yes, the all but admitted, that when they find and do the deal for one of the investors to take over the club, they can pass the running of the club to other people.
But, if the fans made their roles of the directors untenable and they resigned, who would run the club? | | | |
| EGM on 10:25 - Aug 4 with 3042 views | Plattyswrinklynuts |
| EGM on 08:52 - Aug 4 by TalkingSutty |
A bit more meat on the bones last night. A top table that looked defeated, embarrassed, resigned and aggressive at times. The Chairman looked genuinely bewildered when his communication skills, or lack of them, was called into question. You would have thought somebody in the boardroom would have had a quiet word in his ear about that many moons ago, it's been a constant problem. It's that lack of communication and a unwillingness to speak to people, reach out for help, that has contributed to the current crisis. He looked what he is, out of his depth and so did the others.
You would like to think that before it got to the last chance saloon there would have already been extensive discussions involving those in the Boardroom and the largest shareholders, the Supporters Trust. That would have been a normal thing to do wouldn't it? Discussions to formulate a plan should the worst case scenario happen, we don't find a investor and we run out of money. It seemed apparent last night that there is no other plan, there's been no discussions and we will just deal with it if and when it happens. No plan for the worst case scenario, that speaks volumes and yet again comes back to a unwillingness to communicate.
Borrowing £350k will probably see us through until Christmas, it might buy us 4 months when you factor in we are losing over £100k/ month. Then after that we wait for the inevitable to happen. The Chairman actually said that we might have to accept investment from people who wouldn't have been first choice, maybe second or third. We are ripe for picking in relation to those with bad intentions and i still think property development will be the attraction. Simon Gauge instantly dismissed that idea when i suggested it a couple of months ago, that made me even more worried. We need to start making a noise and alert the rest of the football World and media to our current predicament, a historic football club in danger of extinction. Send out a SOS to the football family and make David Cloughs story and his You Tube clip front and centre of the appeal.
Those running the club are too quiet and I don't like it. Rather than see another club go down the pan I'm sure financial funding or help would be forthcoming from somewhere if we made a loud enough noise, a club that owns its own stadium wouldn't be allowed to just go bust, that wouldn't be allowed to happen. I still dont believe that finding a investor within the next few months is the only thing that can save the club and a reason why we will probably have to accept people who are not fit for purpose. I don't think every avenue has been explored, are RMBC aware of how close we are to losing the club, are the local councillors, the FA, the National League? I don't believe they are. I haven't seen anything to that effect in the local or national newspapers or other media outlets. I don't believe we can't release money from the stadium to reset the club, or that RMBC and football authorities wouldn't lend money against it in an emergency. Can we believe that every avenue has been explored properly or just been given lip service? The proof is in the pudding when it comes to their lack of communication skills.
There's been a thirst to find a investor which has trumped running the club properly since the buy up of the Morton House shares. That's what i honestly believe. Consequently, what we have now is a club that has never been given a proper chance of thriving under the current regime. The club has replaced over achievement with under achievement, that's the reality of the situation i think. 'Even doubling our crowds can't save us' according to Gauge, that comment alone summed up why he should have been replaced as Chairman a long time ago.
To finish on a positive note, i thought McNulty was magnificent. [Post edited 4 Aug 2023 10:09]
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I’ve mentioned this before but if the council could step in & buy all the unsold shares from the last share issue plus SG’s RK’s & any others who wish to relinquish their holding then that would-
A- sorts out the directors current predicament &
B- pumps a larger amount of cash directly into the club without the need for a loan!!
The council therefore have a stake in the club (which if the club were liquidated would get them at least some return on their investment), the club gets much needed financial breathing space & a new board could be appointed, or, perhaps run by the trust…?
The Trust appears to have been somewhat sidelined by the board in terms of the loan proposal & also the courting of potential new investors/owners. Maybe it’s time for the trust to approach our council & local MP’s independently if the board won’t? |  | | |
| EGM on 10:29 - Aug 4 with 3026 views | Dalenet |
| EGM on 08:52 - Aug 4 by TalkingSutty |
A bit more meat on the bones last night. A top table that looked defeated, embarrassed, resigned and aggressive at times. The Chairman looked genuinely bewildered when his communication skills, or lack of them, was called into question. You would have thought somebody in the boardroom would have had a quiet word in his ear about that many moons ago, it's been a constant problem. It's that lack of communication and a unwillingness to speak to people, reach out for help, that has contributed to the current crisis. He looked what he is, out of his depth and so did the others.
You would like to think that before it got to the last chance saloon there would have already been extensive discussions involving those in the Boardroom and the largest shareholders, the Supporters Trust. That would have been a normal thing to do wouldn't it? Discussions to formulate a plan should the worst case scenario happen, we don't find a investor and we run out of money. It seemed apparent last night that there is no other plan, there's been no discussions and we will just deal with it if and when it happens. No plan for the worst case scenario, that speaks volumes and yet again comes back to a unwillingness to communicate.
Borrowing £350k will probably see us through until Christmas, it might buy us 4 months when you factor in we are losing over £100k/ month. Then after that we wait for the inevitable to happen. The Chairman actually said that we might have to accept investment from people who wouldn't have been first choice, maybe second or third. We are ripe for picking in relation to those with bad intentions and i still think property development will be the attraction. Simon Gauge instantly dismissed that idea when i suggested it a couple of months ago, that made me even more worried. We need to start making a noise and alert the rest of the football World and media to our current predicament, a historic football club in danger of extinction. Send out a SOS to the football family and make David Cloughs story and his You Tube clip front and centre of the appeal.
Those running the club are too quiet and I don't like it. Rather than see another club go down the pan I'm sure financial funding or help would be forthcoming from somewhere if we made a loud enough noise, a club that owns its own stadium wouldn't be allowed to just go bust, that wouldn't be allowed to happen. I still dont believe that finding a investor within the next few months is the only thing that can save the club and a reason why we will probably have to accept people who are not fit for purpose. I don't think every avenue has been explored, are RMBC aware of how close we are to losing the club, are the local councillors, the FA, the National League? I don't believe they are. I haven't seen anything to that effect in the local or national newspapers or other media outlets. I don't believe we can't release money from the stadium to reset the club, or that RMBC and football authorities wouldn't lend money against it in an emergency. Can we believe that every avenue has been explored properly or just been given lip service? The proof is in the pudding when it comes to their lack of communication skills.
There's been a thirst to find a investor which has trumped running the club properly since the buy up of the Morton House shares. That's what i honestly believe. Consequently, what we have now is a club that has never been given a proper chance of thriving under the current regime. The club has replaced over achievement with under achievement, that's the reality of the situation i think. 'Even doubling our crowds can't save us' according to Gauge, that comment alone summed up why he should have been replaced as Chairman a long time ago.
To finish on a positive note, i thought McNulty was magnificent. [Post edited 4 Aug 2023 10:09]
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TS, I know you think I am an insider because sometimes I disagree with you, but really? If you are a Director of a Board of a decent sized business you can't start creating a panic in public. Players won't come if they think we are going bust, suppliers won't supply, and creditors call in the their debts. Simon said they had approached the council and they won't help. We are solvent today and we need to find a way to close the gap so we remain solvent. That way everybody is in control of a sale when it comes.
I agree the Board looked exhausted, bewildered, shocked last night. But you want change and have no plan for the change you crave. Who do you want to take over from the Board - somebody who will be cpable of paying back their investment? Didn't they say that Simon and Richard have £750k invested in the club? I don't see a queue and our ex Chairman said he can't do it.
I thought it was an honest session last night. I still have many concerns, but we need to trade our way out of this mess somehow. A loan to manage cashflow is needed whether we like it or not. The Trust don't seem to support what you seek and they are closer to it than the rest of us. | | | |
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| EGM on 10:57 - Aug 4 with 2941 views | TalkingSutty |
| EGM on 10:29 - Aug 4 by Dalenet |
TS, I know you think I am an insider because sometimes I disagree with you, but really? If you are a Director of a Board of a decent sized business you can't start creating a panic in public. Players won't come if they think we are going bust, suppliers won't supply, and creditors call in the their debts. Simon said they had approached the council and they won't help. We are solvent today and we need to find a way to close the gap so we remain solvent. That way everybody is in control of a sale when it comes.
I agree the Board looked exhausted, bewildered, shocked last night. But you want change and have no plan for the change you crave. Who do you want to take over from the Board - somebody who will be cpable of paying back their investment? Didn't they say that Simon and Richard have £750k invested in the club? I don't see a queue and our ex Chairman said he can't do it.
I thought it was an honest session last night. I still have many concerns, but we need to trade our way out of this mess somehow. A loan to manage cashflow is needed whether we like it or not. The Trust don't seem to support what you seek and they are closer to it than the rest of us. |
I'm not bothered who you are to be honest, it wont stop me posting my opinion. You think the opposite to me, that's fair enough. The lack of communication and months of silence, a unwillingness to accept help or even engage with people causes me to be suspicious. Anything to do with money makes me suspicious because it makes people do funny things and can affect their judgement. We still have shareholders in and around the club who engaged with and nearly sold up to Morton House, that in itself makes me suspicious and still on guard. I'm sorry if that upsets people but that's my perogative.
Can we be sure that a investor has not already been sourced and is waiting until the shareholders and fans have nowhere else to turn so they are invited in? They in turn reimburse those in the Boardroom and buy shares off other major shareholders? No we can't be sure that won't happen down the line, we can't be sure of anything. We've just seen what happens when you trust those running the club at face value, we came very close to losing it.
So as much as it upsets people, I'm keeping my mind open to the possibility that there might be another plan at play here. It's what we should all be doing after what we've been through as fans over the last couple of years. If it's shown that I've been barking up the wrong tree then I can accept that because my concerns come from a good place. Everybody who walks into the Boardroom should be scrutinised, the Bottomley saga tells us that. So it's nothing personal to anybody in the Boardroom, it's what we all promised to do going forward once we removed Bottomley and Rawlinson. I'm sure Simon Gauge etc will understand why some fans also look at different scenarios. Bury lost their club because everybody took those in the Boardroom at face value. [Post edited 4 Aug 2023 11:31]
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| EGM on 11:13 - Aug 4 with 2877 views | Sandyman |
Unable to attend the forum last night, but was out and got talking to a fellow Dale fan. She doesn't use social media and was surprised, as a shareholder, that she has not received notification by e mail or letter that there is an EGM next week. Another to add to the list. |  | | |
| EGM on 11:45 - Aug 4 with 2776 views | D_Alien |
| EGM on 11:13 - Aug 4 by Sandyman |
Unable to attend the forum last night, but was out and got talking to a fellow Dale fan. She doesn't use social media and was surprised, as a shareholder, that she has not received notification by e mail or letter that there is an EGM next week. Another to add to the list. |
A question was put to the board last night about proper maintenance of its shareholder database
There was no answer (not unexpectedly) so the guy hosting the event - who i thought did an excellent job btw, much better than DS - moved on by saying something like "i'm sure it's something they'll be looking into"
Reference was made to the potential for a challenge to the validity of the EGM vote. Since the actual loan itself isn't imminent - just the agreement to use the ground as security - i still think it'd be wiser of the club to postpone the EGM until they can be sure that all reasonable attempts have been made to contact shareholders. I don't believe that's the case as things stand. Of course, a new date would need to be set and all shareholders given proper notice |  |
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| EGM on 11:46 - Aug 4 with 2778 views | judd |
| EGM on 11:45 - Aug 4 by D_Alien |
A question was put to the board last night about proper maintenance of its shareholder database
There was no answer (not unexpectedly) so the guy hosting the event - who i thought did an excellent job btw, much better than DS - moved on by saying something like "i'm sure it's something they'll be looking into"
Reference was made to the potential for a challenge to the validity of the EGM vote. Since the actual loan itself isn't imminent - just the agreement to use the ground as security - i still think it'd be wiser of the club to postpone the EGM until they can be sure that all reasonable attempts have been made to contact shareholders. I don't believe that's the case as things stand. Of course, a new date would need to be set and all shareholders given proper notice |
Yes, it was a good question that deserved a direct answer on the night. |  |
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| EGM on 12:07 - Aug 4 with 2710 views | Dalenet |
| EGM on 10:57 - Aug 4 by TalkingSutty |
I'm not bothered who you are to be honest, it wont stop me posting my opinion. You think the opposite to me, that's fair enough. The lack of communication and months of silence, a unwillingness to accept help or even engage with people causes me to be suspicious. Anything to do with money makes me suspicious because it makes people do funny things and can affect their judgement. We still have shareholders in and around the club who engaged with and nearly sold up to Morton House, that in itself makes me suspicious and still on guard. I'm sorry if that upsets people but that's my perogative.
Can we be sure that a investor has not already been sourced and is waiting until the shareholders and fans have nowhere else to turn so they are invited in? They in turn reimburse those in the Boardroom and buy shares off other major shareholders? No we can't be sure that won't happen down the line, we can't be sure of anything. We've just seen what happens when you trust those running the club at face value, we came very close to losing it.
So as much as it upsets people, I'm keeping my mind open to the possibility that there might be another plan at play here. It's what we should all be doing after what we've been through as fans over the last couple of years. If it's shown that I've been barking up the wrong tree then I can accept that because my concerns come from a good place. Everybody who walks into the Boardroom should be scrutinised, the Bottomley saga tells us that. So it's nothing personal to anybody in the Boardroom, it's what we all promised to do going forward once we removed Bottomley and Rawlinson. I'm sure Simon Gauge etc will understand why some fans also look at different scenarios. Bury lost their club because everybody took those in the Boardroom at face value. [Post edited 4 Aug 2023 11:31]
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I don't think opposite to you at all. In fact some of what you say resonates with my view. We just think differently. I just keep asking the question....if you think the Board are not capable and you want the shareholders to remove them, who replaces them. I don't think it is an unreasonable question. | | | |
| EGM on 12:15 - Aug 4 with 2679 views | Sandyman |
E mail from Dale Trust re: members vote at EGM has just landed. | | | |
| EGM on 12:23 - Aug 4 with 2655 views | D_Alien |
| EGM on 12:15 - Aug 4 by Sandyman |
E mail from Dale Trust re: members vote at EGM has just landed. |
Yep, and just to say thanks to all at the Trust who've assisted with the technical glitch i've mentioned on here - duly received | |
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| EGM on 12:31 - Aug 4 with 2627 views | SuddenLad |
Trust e-mail arrived safely. Vote cast. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| EGM on 12:34 - Aug 4 with 2621 views | James1980 |
Would loan notes be a viable alternative even if they were still secured on the ground? Say minimum 'investment' of £15000 paying a coupon of 5-6% fixed repayable within 25 years. I am guessing there are fans that would be prepared to stump up funds that might see some return in comparison to shares. | |
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| EGM on 12:40 - Aug 4 with 2594 views | NigelWatson |
| EGM on 10:57 - Aug 4 by TalkingSutty |
I'm not bothered who you are to be honest, it wont stop me posting my opinion. You think the opposite to me, that's fair enough. The lack of communication and months of silence, a unwillingness to accept help or even engage with people causes me to be suspicious. Anything to do with money makes me suspicious because it makes people do funny things and can affect their judgement. We still have shareholders in and around the club who engaged with and nearly sold up to Morton House, that in itself makes me suspicious and still on guard. I'm sorry if that upsets people but that's my perogative.
Can we be sure that a investor has not already been sourced and is waiting until the shareholders and fans have nowhere else to turn so they are invited in? They in turn reimburse those in the Boardroom and buy shares off other major shareholders? No we can't be sure that won't happen down the line, we can't be sure of anything. We've just seen what happens when you trust those running the club at face value, we came very close to losing it.
So as much as it upsets people, I'm keeping my mind open to the possibility that there might be another plan at play here. It's what we should all be doing after what we've been through as fans over the last couple of years. If it's shown that I've been barking up the wrong tree then I can accept that because my concerns come from a good place. Everybody who walks into the Boardroom should be scrutinised, the Bottomley saga tells us that. So it's nothing personal to anybody in the Boardroom, it's what we all promised to do going forward once we removed Bottomley and Rawlinson. I'm sure Simon Gauge etc will understand why some fans also look at different scenarios. Bury lost their club because everybody took those in the Boardroom at face value. [Post edited 4 Aug 2023 11:31]
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Good post
Human action is purposeful behaviour. There's maybe something else going on apart from incompetence. | | | |
| EGM on 14:03 - Aug 4 with 2440 views | Drigdale |
| EGM on 10:57 - Aug 4 by TalkingSutty |
I'm not bothered who you are to be honest, it wont stop me posting my opinion. You think the opposite to me, that's fair enough. The lack of communication and months of silence, a unwillingness to accept help or even engage with people causes me to be suspicious. Anything to do with money makes me suspicious because it makes people do funny things and can affect their judgement. We still have shareholders in and around the club who engaged with and nearly sold up to Morton House, that in itself makes me suspicious and still on guard. I'm sorry if that upsets people but that's my perogative.
Can we be sure that a investor has not already been sourced and is waiting until the shareholders and fans have nowhere else to turn so they are invited in? They in turn reimburse those in the Boardroom and buy shares off other major shareholders? No we can't be sure that won't happen down the line, we can't be sure of anything. We've just seen what happens when you trust those running the club at face value, we came very close to losing it.
So as much as it upsets people, I'm keeping my mind open to the possibility that there might be another plan at play here. It's what we should all be doing after what we've been through as fans over the last couple of years. If it's shown that I've been barking up the wrong tree then I can accept that because my concerns come from a good place. Everybody who walks into the Boardroom should be scrutinised, the Bottomley saga tells us that. So it's nothing personal to anybody in the Boardroom, it's what we all promised to do going forward once we removed Bottomley and Rawlinson. I'm sure Simon Gauge etc will understand why some fans also look at different scenarios. Bury lost their club because everybody took those in the Boardroom at face value. [Post edited 4 Aug 2023 11:31]
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I think Bury lost their club because they had Stuart Day and Steve Dale on their board of directors.
We have Directors who are working their socks off and pumping their limited resources into the club or trying to.
Bury spent excessively e.g. reportedly paying players inflated salaries, apparently Jermaine Beckford was paid £10,000 a week. They flew to away games and stayed at Hotel Football before home games by all accounts. How is this similar to our club?
I fear unless we support our Directors they will walk and what would our plans be then?
It seems easy to come up with suggestions what we should do, without doubt it is much harder at the coal face.
I certainly will back our Board. | | | |
| EGM on 15:31 - Aug 4 with 2309 views | TalkingSutty |
| EGM on 12:07 - Aug 4 by Dalenet |
I don't think opposite to you at all. In fact some of what you say resonates with my view. We just think differently. I just keep asking the question....if you think the Board are not capable and you want the shareholders to remove them, who replaces them. I don't think it is an unreasonable question. |
I said at the time the announcement was made by the Chairman to theoretically put the club up for sale that i though the shareholders and Trust should have intervened. A trust vote however showed that over 90% of fans were in favour of bringing in a investor. So most disagreed with me. That was when the Chairman and the Directors went into their shell and the lines of communication stopped. It allowed a vacuum which was filled with rumours and suspicion. Even the circumstances surrounding the announcement of this EGM has been shrouded in secrecy, with shareholders provided with very little information and some not even been informed of the EGM. Its things like that which contribute to the suspicion and its not a isolated example...we can go back to the sudden announcement once the Morton House shares had been purchased that the club that was not for sale,was actually now up for sale. There was no consultation with shareholders or the trust or the fans.
So my preference would be a proper fan owned club and if Bury can do it then there's no reason why we couldn't. We still have money in the Stadium and it would take a lot of hard work and planning, starting further down the pyramid, but at least we wouldn't be gambling the future of the club which we are just about to do. I fully appreciate there are many more people who would rather take a chance on a investor and i respect their views on that. For peace of mind I'd rather we all ran the club ourselves, we have a lot of brilliant supporters who when we pull together are capable of overcoming any obstacle.
I've seen how the current Chairman and Directors have run the club and i find it very hard to support that. The money they are putting in is to buy time to find a investor, it could even be a investor who isn't the ideal choice according to Simon Gauge..second or third choice. It's not what i want to vote for. Contrary to what some might think i reckon the yes vote will be the overwhelming verdict. It's certainly not something the fans should fall out about though. I've had enough of strangers sniffing around the club and I only trust the fans to look after it properly now. Once we get a investor in, how do we stop them selling it on to another investor of their choice? That's the bigger picture for me. [Post edited 4 Aug 2023 15:58]
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| EGM on 18:58 - Aug 4 with 2050 views | AtThePeake |
| EGM on 15:31 - Aug 4 by TalkingSutty |
I said at the time the announcement was made by the Chairman to theoretically put the club up for sale that i though the shareholders and Trust should have intervened. A trust vote however showed that over 90% of fans were in favour of bringing in a investor. So most disagreed with me. That was when the Chairman and the Directors went into their shell and the lines of communication stopped. It allowed a vacuum which was filled with rumours and suspicion. Even the circumstances surrounding the announcement of this EGM has been shrouded in secrecy, with shareholders provided with very little information and some not even been informed of the EGM. Its things like that which contribute to the suspicion and its not a isolated example...we can go back to the sudden announcement once the Morton House shares had been purchased that the club that was not for sale,was actually now up for sale. There was no consultation with shareholders or the trust or the fans.
So my preference would be a proper fan owned club and if Bury can do it then there's no reason why we couldn't. We still have money in the Stadium and it would take a lot of hard work and planning, starting further down the pyramid, but at least we wouldn't be gambling the future of the club which we are just about to do. I fully appreciate there are many more people who would rather take a chance on a investor and i respect their views on that. For peace of mind I'd rather we all ran the club ourselves, we have a lot of brilliant supporters who when we pull together are capable of overcoming any obstacle.
I've seen how the current Chairman and Directors have run the club and i find it very hard to support that. The money they are putting in is to buy time to find a investor, it could even be a investor who isn't the ideal choice according to Simon Gauge..second or third choice. It's not what i want to vote for. Contrary to what some might think i reckon the yes vote will be the overwhelming verdict. It's certainly not something the fans should fall out about though. I've had enough of strangers sniffing around the club and I only trust the fans to look after it properly now. Once we get a investor in, how do we stop them selling it on to another investor of their choice? That's the bigger picture for me. [Post edited 4 Aug 2023 15:58]
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For comparison, Chester and Darlington are fairly similar sized clubs to ourselves historically, completely fan-owned and trust-operated and both finished in the top 10 in the National League North last season, so it's not like we'd have to drop to Bury's level to make that model work.
I want us to be competing at the highest level possible, but I'd rather do that knowing the future of the club is secure. So if the highest level possible for us at this moment without constantly worrying about the next Matt Southall or Steve Dale is to be a really strong sixth tier outfit that's community led, fan-owned and sustainable, then to me that's far preferable to being a basket case fifth tier outfit that seems to lurch from crisis to crisis. |  |
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| EGM on 19:01 - Aug 4 with 2045 views | AtThePeake |
| EGM on 18:58 - Aug 4 by AtThePeake |
For comparison, Chester and Darlington are fairly similar sized clubs to ourselves historically, completely fan-owned and trust-operated and both finished in the top 10 in the National League North last season, so it's not like we'd have to drop to Bury's level to make that model work.
I want us to be competing at the highest level possible, but I'd rather do that knowing the future of the club is secure. So if the highest level possible for us at this moment without constantly worrying about the next Matt Southall or Steve Dale is to be a really strong sixth tier outfit that's community led, fan-owned and sustainable, then to me that's far preferable to being a basket case fifth tier outfit that seems to lurch from crisis to crisis. |
And when I say fan-owned I mean trust-owned and operated. I don't really see the current model as being truly fan-owned. | |
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| EGM on 19:50 - Aug 4 with 1966 views | TalkingSutty |
| EGM on 19:01 - Aug 4 by AtThePeake |
And when I say fan-owned I mean trust-owned and operated. I don't really see the current model as being truly fan-owned. |
Agree with that. I completely understand why a lot of fans want to take the the chance with a investor and hopefully aim to quickly get back into the EFL and get a injection of big money into the club. It comes with massive on going risks for me that though and the constant worry about what the investor wants to do further down the line. Most of my Dale supporting mates support bringing a investor on board and will vote yes at the EGM. None of us have a crystal ball unfortunately. [Post edited 4 Aug 2023 19:53]
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| EGM on 20:21 - Aug 4 with 1885 views | nordenblue |
| EGM on 12:34 - Aug 4 by James1980 |
Would loan notes be a viable alternative even if they were still secured on the ground? Say minimum 'investment' of £15000 paying a coupon of 5-6% fixed repayable within 25 years. I am guessing there are fans that would be prepared to stump up funds that might see some return in comparison to shares. |
You'd have to make it far more attractive than locking it away in say a high interest account for a similar time frame James, the way interest rates are going the 5-6% rate won't get many if any takers. | | | |
| EGM on 21:15 - Aug 4 with 1787 views | fermin |
| EGM on 18:58 - Aug 4 by AtThePeake |
For comparison, Chester and Darlington are fairly similar sized clubs to ourselves historically, completely fan-owned and trust-operated and both finished in the top 10 in the National League North last season, so it's not like we'd have to drop to Bury's level to make that model work.
I want us to be competing at the highest level possible, but I'd rather do that knowing the future of the club is secure. So if the highest level possible for us at this moment without constantly worrying about the next Matt Southall or Steve Dale is to be a really strong sixth tier outfit that's community led, fan-owned and sustainable, then to me that's far preferable to being a basket case fifth tier outfit that seems to lurch from crisis to crisis. |
Having seen quite a bit of level 6 football in the last few years in the South I would be happy with that as well and I think the clubs in the Northern section are a bit less typical non-league (Chester/Darlo etc) in my opinion as well so it would not be quite as much of a culture shock.
However, I wonder how many other Dale fans would agree with that - the prospect of following Scunthorpe down is not something people want to contemplate - eg the first questioner last night said something like not returning to the EFL immediately would be failure. To be clear I am not saying I want us to be relegated this season! But if we decided that if the only way to be sustainable and fan-owned would be to go semi-pro like Chester and Darlo and we ended up there then I would accept that. I wonder whether their fixed costs (utilities etc) are a lot lower than ours, though. Also, worth bearing in mind that they are where they are (certainly Darlo) on an upward journey from a very bad situation so the mindset about being in NLN might be a bit different and I expect they are really looking to get up into an almost fully professional league as they were when we played them regularly.
To a certain extent when we took the decisions we did at the EGM in June 2021 and become more fan-owned (however you want to define it) then I sort of accepted that this would mean cutting costs, given the demographics of our fanbase which does not have as many people with significant money, unlike AFC Wimbledon who are based in an affluent area of London, and that this could mean accepting non-league football long-term. |  | | |
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