| T' 2023 tests 14:19 - Feb 15 with 29130 views | D_Alien |
Amid the impending doom back home, the rejuvenated England squad will start their first test of this calendar year at 1am (our time, obvs.)
NZ have their injury and selection problems, whilst we seem to have a wealth of players chafing at the leash to show how positive and talented they are. All this, under a captain who may just go down as our GOAT. Typically, he's more interested in bringing out the best in others:
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/ben-stokes-message-as-england-captain-show-th
With so much potentially great cricket ahead of us this year, thought i'd make it a thread for the entirety rather than different series. Bring it on!
[Post edited 15 Feb 2023 14:45]
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| T' 2023 tests on 19:56 - Jul 8 with 2425 views | EllDale |
Close of play successfully reached.
It only takes one batsman to make a decent score tomorrow and England are in with a shout.
A great opportunity for one of the three Yorkshiremen to become a Headingley hero.
Baz and Ben really do need to think long and hard about who keeps wicket for the last two tests though.
They’re only heaping pressure on Bairstow.
Most people on here won’t remember this but I’m reminded of the early 1960s here.
The best wicketkeeper in the country was Middlesex’s John Murray but for a long time the selectors preferred Jim Parks from Sussex who was basically a middle order batsman but who could also keep wicket. [Post edited 8 Jul 2023 19:57]
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| T' 2023 tests on 20:45 - Jul 8 with 2372 views | pioneer |
| T' 2023 tests on 19:56 - Jul 8 by EllDale |
Close of play successfully reached.
It only takes one batsman to make a decent score tomorrow and England are in with a shout.
A great opportunity for one of the three Yorkshiremen to become a Headingley hero.
Baz and Ben really do need to think long and hard about who keeps wicket for the last two tests though.
They’re only heaping pressure on Bairstow.
Most people on here won’t remember this but I’m reminded of the early 1960s here.
The best wicketkeeper in the country was Middlesex’s John Murray but for a long time the selectors preferred Jim Parks from Sussex who was basically a middle order batsman but who could also keep wicket. [Post edited 8 Jul 2023 19:57]
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Yes….and followed by Alan Knott being preferred to Bob Taylor who was the better keeper. | | | |
| T' 2023 tests on 21:37 - Jul 8 with 2323 views | D_Alien |
| T' 2023 tests on 20:45 - Jul 8 by pioneer |
Yes….and followed by Alan Knott being preferred to Bob Taylor who was the better keeper. |
And in more recent times, Alex Stewart preferred to jack Russell | |
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| T' 2023 tests on 21:44 - Jul 8 with 2311 views | 49thseason |
It says more about the lack of solid 4,5,6, Batsmen than the quality of the wicket keepers.
That we rely on wicketkeepers to be middle order Batsmen is costing the bowlers wickets, its a tricky decision but there is nothing for drawn games, you have to take wickets at test level, the chances are relatively few and far between. |  | | |
| T' 2023 tests on 22:04 - Jul 8 with 2281 views | D_Alien |
| T' 2023 tests on 21:44 - Jul 8 by 49thseason |
It says more about the lack of solid 4,5,6, Batsmen than the quality of the wicket keepers.
That we rely on wicketkeepers to be middle order Batsmen is costing the bowlers wickets, its a tricky decision but there is nothing for drawn games, you have to take wickets at test level, the chances are relatively few and far between. |
"...lack of solid 4,5,6 batsmen..."
Prior (not Matt) to this game:
4 - Root: test average above 50, one of England's all-time greats
5 - Brook: the most talented new kid on the block since Pietersen, test average 60-odd
6 - Stokes: do i need to say any more?
Said at the start of this game i'd have preferred Foakes in rather than Woakes, but the latter has had a really good game and the injuries to Stokes/Robinson made his selection more than justified
Until his injury, Bairstow was in the batting form of his life and deserved his recall. After the events at Lord's he was never going to be left out on his home ground. If we can make it 2-1 tomorrow it'll be same again at OT (or maybe Tongue in for Robinson)
[Post edited 8 Jul 2023 22:25]
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| T' 2023 tests on 23:51 - Jul 8 with 2202 views | 49thseason |
| T' 2023 tests on 22:04 - Jul 8 by D_Alien |
"...lack of solid 4,5,6 batsmen..."
Prior (not Matt) to this game:
4 - Root: test average above 50, one of England's all-time greats
5 - Brook: the most talented new kid on the block since Pietersen, test average 60-odd
6 - Stokes: do i need to say any more?
Said at the start of this game i'd have preferred Foakes in rather than Woakes, but the latter has had a really good game and the injuries to Stokes/Robinson made his selection more than justified
Until his injury, Bairstow was in the batting form of his life and deserved his recall. After the events at Lord's he was never going to be left out on his home ground. If we can make it 2-1 tomorrow it'll be same again at OT (or maybe Tongue in for Robinson)
[Post edited 8 Jul 2023 22:25]
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Whilst the stats don't lie, but I still feel apprehensive about their powers of concentration to bat out long periods of play. Biff bash cricket is great to watch but I still yearn for an Edrich or a Boycott to close down a period of play and frustrate the bowlers by not giving chances. But then I also worry about the amount of cricket being played , Root has faced nearly 20,000 balls for an average of 50, Ken Barrington face just under 5000 for an average of 58
Its a different game I suppose. Boycott only scored 8 sixes in his whole England career Brook has hit 20 in 10 matches! Watching the England teams of the 60 and 70s would be like watching paint dry for most people these days, but I miss the little battles, the intrigues and the deftness of two spin bowlers operating from either end. | | | |
| T' 2023 tests on 00:59 - Jul 9 with 2188 views | pioneer |
| T' 2023 tests on 22:04 - Jul 8 by D_Alien |
"...lack of solid 4,5,6 batsmen..."
Prior (not Matt) to this game:
4 - Root: test average above 50, one of England's all-time greats
5 - Brook: the most talented new kid on the block since Pietersen, test average 60-odd
6 - Stokes: do i need to say any more?
Said at the start of this game i'd have preferred Foakes in rather than Woakes, but the latter has had a really good game and the injuries to Stokes/Robinson made his selection more than justified
Until his injury, Bairstow was in the batting form of his life and deserved his recall. After the events at Lord's he was never going to be left out on his home ground. If we can make it 2-1 tomorrow it'll be same again at OT (or maybe Tongue in for Robinson)
[Post edited 8 Jul 2023 22:25]
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With Bairstow. keeping you expect to have to take 11-12 wickets every innings. effectively. Room hasto be made for a keeper and if that means resting Bairstow so be it. Bazball should not mean playing incorrectly and his dismissal in the first innings was awful….feet rooted to the spot while he chased an awful delivery.
OK …i suppose he will now go and score a century to lead us to victory!
i expect the rotation to kick in for the bowlers and Anderson back for OT. Maybe resting Broad…..unless back to back tests are too much for Wood. | | | |
| T' 2023 tests on 07:37 - Jul 9 with 2159 views | D_Alien |
| T' 2023 tests on 00:59 - Jul 9 by pioneer |
With Bairstow. keeping you expect to have to take 11-12 wickets every innings. effectively. Room hasto be made for a keeper and if that means resting Bairstow so be it. Bazball should not mean playing incorrectly and his dismissal in the first innings was awful….feet rooted to the spot while he chased an awful delivery.
OK …i suppose he will now go and score a century to lead us to victory!
i expect the rotation to kick in for the bowlers and Anderson back for OT. Maybe resting Broad…..unless back to back tests are too much for Wood. |
The injury to Pope (who i'm not convinced by at 3 yet) meant the batting line-up was going to look a bit unbalanced. Everyone has been guilty of poor shot selection this summer as the new mindset met the reality of the world test champions but there are hopeful signs the necessary adjustment has now been made
OT test starts 19 July, so 10 days to rest body and soul. If it's 2-1, we'll have the momentum | |
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| T' 2023 tests on 11:38 - Jul 9 with 2072 views | foreverhopefulDale |
| T' 2023 tests on 20:45 - Jul 8 by pioneer |
Yes….and followed by Alan Knott being preferred to Bob Taylor who was the better keeper. |
Yes but Alan Knott was a brilliant wicketkeeper in his own right unlike Birstow and Stewart. He was a far better batter than Taylor though, if indeed Taylor was a better keeper, he wasn't much better, and therefore the choice of Knott over Taylor was probably justified.
Is there any stats that can show either way whether or not having Birstow with his far better batting average is worth having in instead of Foakes with his far better wicket keeping, is the right thing to do? Is it purely down to the fact that Birstow is capable of scoring a very quick 50 or 100 while Foakes possibly isn't, and that makes up for the one or two missed chances per innings or match is made up by the batting? |  |
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| T' 2023 tests on 11:45 - Jul 9 with 2052 views | foreverhopefulDale |
| T' 2023 tests on 00:59 - Jul 9 by pioneer |
With Bairstow. keeping you expect to have to take 11-12 wickets every innings. effectively. Room hasto be made for a keeper and if that means resting Bairstow so be it. Bazball should not mean playing incorrectly and his dismissal in the first innings was awful….feet rooted to the spot while he chased an awful delivery.
OK …i suppose he will now go and score a century to lead us to victory!
i expect the rotation to kick in for the bowlers and Anderson back for OT. Maybe resting Broad…..unless back to back tests are too much for Wood. |
I hope we can stick with the same attack, but with Anderson coming in for Robinson, if Robinson is unfit, unless either Wood or Broad need resting. With it being OT, Anderson may be a good reason to have in instead of Robinson, though based firmly on form, Robinson deserves to play. | |
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| T' 2023 tests on 14:20 - Jul 9 with 1985 views | D_Alien |
No reason to omit Foakes now... | |
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| T' 2023 tests on 15:44 - Jul 9 with 1935 views | AtThePeake |
| T' 2023 tests on 11:06 - Jul 7 by AtThePeake |
Is it dramatic to suggest that Root wicket and the manner of it may have just seen any real chance of winning the Ashes slip away?
(Hoping for a robshaker style turnaround after this) |
The slump started there  |  |
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| T' 2023 tests on 16:02 - Jul 9 with 1894 views | D_Alien |
We got there through sticking to our guns, scoring at 5 an over
If we'd just tried to grind it out we'd never have got anywhere near
Delighted that the series remains alive, as much as anything. Another Aussie win would've killed the rest of the cricket season in early July
Foakes in for Bairstow at OT... but what to do about the no.3 position?
[Post edited 9 Jul 2023 16:03]
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| T' 2023 tests on 19:28 - Jul 9 with 1806 views | pioneer |
What an outstanding test series…how can the powers that be ( meaning India with strong support from England and Aussies) continue to ‘promote’T20 at the expense of test match cricket (and 50 overs)?
Lets hope for two more belters. | | | |
| T' 2023 tests on 23:23 - Jul 9 with 1689 views | Sandyman |
No 3 is a problem. Having given Wood and Woakes a place in the side, on not much cricket, they were wild cards that worked, like Mitchell Marsh for the c**victs. Daniel Bell-Drummond has been in fine form for Kent. Another wild card for Number 3? Any other suggestions?
Bairstow batted astonishingly for England last year. Since his broken leg, he hasn't (apart from 1 innings in 6) and his wicket keeping has been poor. Joss Buttler was sacked off for less. Ben Foakes MUST replace Bairstow.
Bowling - Wood, Woakes, Tongue, Broad, Ali with Stokes and Root as back up as required. Jimmy in reserve.
A bit more tactical common sense (some of the field placings and slogs have been gormless) and we can do this. |  | | |
| T' 2023 tests on 07:59 - Jul 10 with 1631 views | frenzied |
A great watch..but its like a 6 hour penalty shoot out..enthralling and agonising at the same time
Another daft question...
Are the bats used once then ditched?..i saw a close up of one that looked "battered"...are these sanded down?..or simply scrapped?
Are they custom made for the players?..in terms of weight of bat length of bat/handle?
Sorry to be so dim!!!!!!! | | | |
| T' 2023 tests on 08:54 - Jul 10 with 1596 views | Sandyman |
| T' 2023 tests on 07:59 - Jul 10 by frenzied |
A great watch..but its like a 6 hour penalty shoot out..enthralling and agonising at the same time
Another daft question...
Are the bats used once then ditched?..i saw a close up of one that looked "battered"...are these sanded down?..or simply scrapped?
Are they custom made for the players?..in terms of weight of bat length of bat/handle?
Sorry to be so dim!!!!!!! |
Mark Wood has referred to his bat as the "blade of justice" and has no plans to change it  | | | |
| T' 2023 tests on 09:49 - Jul 10 with 1555 views | DaleiLama |
| T' 2023 tests on 07:59 - Jul 10 by frenzied |
A great watch..but its like a 6 hour penalty shoot out..enthralling and agonising at the same time
Another daft question...
Are the bats used once then ditched?..i saw a close up of one that looked "battered"...are these sanded down?..or simply scrapped?
Are they custom made for the players?..in terms of weight of bat length of bat/handle?
Sorry to be so dim!!!!!!! |
Rumours of Bairstow having a custom 12ft bat made so he can go walkabout with impunity? |  |
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| T' 2023 tests on 11:40 - Jul 10 with 1481 views | EllDale |
He needs a decent pair of gloves as well. | | | |
| T' 2023 tests on 17:39 - Jul 10 with 1354 views | sweetcorn |
| T' 2023 tests on 07:59 - Jul 10 by frenzied |
A great watch..but its like a 6 hour penalty shoot out..enthralling and agonising at the same time
Another daft question...
Are the bats used once then ditched?..i saw a close up of one that looked "battered"...are these sanded down?..or simply scrapped?
Are they custom made for the players?..in terms of weight of bat length of bat/handle?
Sorry to be so dim!!!!!!! |
No, the commentators alluded to Root having a liking for the bat he used in this Test and has used it for multiple tests. That's the reason he wanted bat tape for some damage mid innings. |  |
| Leader of the little gang of immature cretins. |
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| T' 2023 tests on 12:53 - Jul 11 with 1265 views | pioneer |
Unchanged squad for fourth test so no Foakes.
According to BBC statistician Bairstow has dropped eight catches in the first three tests, almost an entire innings.
His batting average over the same three tests is 24 with the following scores, 78, 20, 16, 10, 12, 5 | | | |
| T' 2023 tests on 13:16 - Jul 11 with 1201 views | EllDale |
Any other wicketkeeper could have lost his place by now with figures that.
Is it sheer stubbornness which keeps him in the team? | | | |
| T' 2023 tests on 13:22 - Jul 11 with 1187 views | D_Alien |
| T' 2023 tests on 12:53 - Jul 11 by pioneer |
Unchanged squad for fourth test so no Foakes.
According to BBC statistician Bairstow has dropped eight catches in the first three tests, almost an entire innings.
His batting average over the same three tests is 24 with the following scores, 78, 20, 16, 10, 12, 5 |
I'm guessing they're seeing loyalty as more important than pragmatism, to try to instil confidence in those going through a poor spell. It's one way of looking at it (especially if someone has a proven track record beforehand) although it wouldn't be my choice. Tbf, selectors in the past may have been too trigger-happy - let's hope they haven't shot themselves in the foot this time
My more pressing concern is the no.3 spot. Sandyman suggested Daniel Bell-Drummond, and that wouldn't have been a bad shout since it'd be replacing an injury (to Pope) rather than deselecting anyone. Fwiw, i'd stick with Moeen Ali. Having him come in at 3 in the Headingley run chase did actually work, despite his low score; it allowed the rest of the lineup (particularly Brook) to take their usual positions which saw us over the line
Again, Moeen could be out early or he could steal some runs at the top of the order at OT but that could happen with anyone, and since his test career is coming to a close he's nothing to lose | |
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| T' 2023 tests on 13:40 - Jul 11 with 1157 views | pioneer |
| T' 2023 tests on 13:16 - Jul 11 by EllDale |
Any other wicketkeeper could have lost his place by now with figures that.
Is it sheer stubbornness which keeps him in the team? |
I think giving him a rest would be doing him a favour. He has come back from a bad injury and is clearly struggling, with every test inning (of both teams) the pressure on him increases.
I hope he can get back to form with both bat and gloves. Its high stakes at this stage and any more drops could help ensure those ashes head back down under ( figuratively speaking….we know they are always at Lords, just like Eton v Harrow games). | | | |
| T' 2023 tests on 14:12 - Jul 11 with 1146 views | watford_dale |
| T' 2023 tests on 13:16 - Jul 11 by EllDale |
Any other wicketkeeper could have lost his place by now with figures that.
Is it sheer stubbornness which keeps him in the team? |
Its the usual abject failure of the openers (Crawley, average 28.65!!) that that makes selectors lose their minds and have to insist that every position is filled with a batter - discounting the fast bowlers.
Ever since Adam Gilchrist came on the scene as wkt keeper and got to the point he was happy smashing hundreds for fun and could catch and stump, that we have insisted on trying to find the same. Buttler - would give a T20 inns regardless of the format of the game but was pants with the gloves. If Bairstow is in for his bat then move someone else out and get Foakes in, average 32.25, which is more than Crawley. | | | |
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